GWF has a role in dungeons, run 5 miles ahead bring a HUGE pull of mobs then CW pushes them off the edge. Great meta gaming PWE! What a pathetic style of play.
I admit I have not parsed it- my opinion comes from hitting mobs/bosses and watching the bleed dot damage carefully and I was not impressed at all. It may have been bugged temporarily for me but after the bleed finished ticking I crit with WMS again with no actual bleed damage. The bleed ticked for a grand total of 716 damage, faded, I crit again with no proc after and then the next crit swing procced the bleed.
I didn't want to see further testing after I saw that so I just immediately specced out of it and put my points elsewhere. My damage didn't really suffer at all as a result since I was doing fine without having specced into the bleed before.
For GWF, there's also the fact that the 10% is extremely consistent, scales with unstoppable really well, and gets better as you gain more power/arp/crit/weapon damage.
Fair enough, I did change my feats today to move those 5 points around.
Steelkat/Unfrozen Caveman - DCs
Guild Leader of MOPP4 MOPP 4′s community was created to cater to those who have served or currently serve in the armed forces around the world as well as friends, family & supporters of the armed forces. We also now proudly support the Wounded Warrior Project. For more details please go here.
I do well with a few of the CWs who place their singularities right on me to make my life peachy keen. We absolutely shred trash in CN and I love it. Just no luck on Dracolich yet.
My current stats, fwiw,
GS: 9677
Power 3314
Crit 1371
Arp 1013
Rec 2314
Def 2177
Life 706
Using Reaver's Edge at the moment.
My stats are in flux as I slowly convert from pure power/recovery to arp/crit/power which is where I think I will do well with the instigator build.
Unstoppable 5/5
Disciple of Strength 3/3
Armor Spec 3/3
Con Focus 1/3
Weapon Mastery 2/3
Criticial Bonus 3/3
5/5 Deep Gash
5/5 Student of the Sword
5/5 Unstoppable Recovery
5/5 Vicious Advantage
5/5 Allied Opportunity
5/5 Group Assault
1/1 Instigator Capstone
Since you're running an Instigator build, judging by your feats, you're probably doing fine keeping Deep Gash. The capstone 50% power buff actually up's the damage on the bleed, and the rumor is that each crit instantly refreshes it and proc's a tick on-hit. So basically you can think of Deep Gash as a damage proc on crit that continues to produce damage. On any other build, I'd say drop it but it works for what you're using.
I noticed that further up someone recommended going for Great Weapon Focus, and I wholly agree with that assessment but to be totally honest I don't think you'll be able to. You would need to drop either the bleed or SotS to get it, and I'm not sure that either of those is really 'skippable'. Certainly if you had to choose between the two, Deep Gash would probably the the better choice to drop. The only way to know for sure is to parse both of them pretty extensively, but I'm going to go out on a limb here and say it's probably a wash.
Also, since you're Instigator I'd say you need more critical chance. Fast, vicious criticals are really what Instigator seems to be built on. That, and helping your teams damage which you obviously have covered.
Keep in mind I don't play an Instigator, so I'm probably not the best person to give advice. This is just how I see it though.
MoF/Thaum CWSS/Thaum CWIV/Protector GFSW/Combat HRSM/Destroyer GWFWK/Executioner TRDO/Faithful DC
Disagree. Get gear man, that's it. If you're a good player, that's all you need. I have decent lvl 60 gears with NO enchants at the moment (saving up for good ones), and a GS of over 8.7, which has led me to do just fine in T2 dungeons. The GWF's primary goal is attacking large numbers of enemies in PvE to help lessen the load, TRs should focus on bosses. I frequently defend the wizards and clerics, and everything goes fine. One bad player can ruin an otherwise good team, no matter what the class. GWFs are fine if you know what you're doing with it. It requires a little more skill in movement than other classes I feel, just from my experience with it, but if you work hard at it you can do it. I've been invited to tons of parties, and in PvP I have to just make a simple switch of only two skills and my build stays largely the same.
Since you're running an Instigator build, judging by your feats, you're probably doing fine keeping Deep Gash. The capstone 50% power buff actually up's the damage on the bleed, and the rumor is that each crit instantly refreshes it and proc's a tick on-hit. So basically you can think of Deep Gash as a damage proc on crit that continues to produce damage. On any other build, I'd say drop it but it works for what you're using.
I noticed that further up someone recommended going for Great Weapon Focus, and I wholly agree with that assessment but to be totally honest I don't think you'll be able to. You would need to drop either the bleed or SotS to get it, and I'm not sure that either of those is really 'skippable'. Certainly if you had to choose between the two, Deep Gash would probably the the better choice to drop. The only way to know for sure is to parse both of them pretty extensively, but I'm going to go out on a limb here and say it's probably a wash.
Also, since you're Instigator I'd say you need more critical chance. Fast, vicious criticals are really what Instigator seems to be built on. That, and helping your teams damage which you obviously have covered.
Keep in mind I don't play an Instigator, so I'm probably not the best person to give advice. This is just how I see it though.
I did pump my crit up, also managed to get some good drops and have dramatically modified my overall stats. Up t0 32% crit now, did spec change to swap deep gash for GF. To be honest, I think there's MAYBE a 1% difference in total DPS between either option. 10% of at wills versus what I found to be an 8% total damage bonus at very low crit levels. The way crits work in this game and with so many AOE attacks, I could see that being more like 9% at higher crit levels.
I did ask a question in another thread about Armor Pen. Wondering if when you put a group together with all the abilities and individual player's armor pen if points in armor pen are really worth it. Isn't it likely the the mobs def is already pretty much zero before you even really factor your own ArP. Maybe then crit is really #1, maybe you need some small base of ArP which comes mostly off itemization and enchant for crit, power and recovery.
Steelkat/Unfrozen Caveman - DCs
Guild Leader of MOPP4 MOPP 4′s community was created to cater to those who have served or currently serve in the armed forces around the world as well as friends, family & supporters of the armed forces. We also now proudly support the Wounded Warrior Project. For more details please go here.
2 CWs, 1 TR, 1 GWF, and 1 DC is faster than 2 cws, 2 dc, 1 tr. People need the extra dc because essentially they want that safety net. I will say 2 DC's are probably needed only for spider, just because of how annoying it is. So if your guild is saying 2 cws, 2 dc, 1 tr is the optimal group, then they're wrong.
2 CWs, 1 TR, 1 GWF, and 1 DC is faster than 2 cws, 2 dc, 1 tr. People need the extra dc because essentially they want that safety net. I will say 2 DC's are probably needed only for spider, just because of how annoying it is. So if your guild is saying 2 cws, 2 dc, 1 tr is the optimal group, then they're wrong.
Actually, you're making my point for me. The point of my post is that a GWF requires everyone to play smarter because you probably don't have the safety net of the extra DC or the extra CW or the extra TR.
Steelkat/Unfrozen Caveman - DCs
Guild Leader of MOPP4 MOPP 4′s community was created to cater to those who have served or currently serve in the armed forces around the world as well as friends, family & supporters of the armed forces. We also now proudly support the Wounded Warrior Project. For more details please go here.
Actually, you're making my point for me. The point of my post is that a GWF requires everyone to play smarter because you probably don't have the safety net of the extra DC or the extra CW or the extra TR.
I understand that perfectly well, I can only run CN with a certain group of people because I know they're good enough to take me as a filler. But it doesn't change the fact that the optimal group includes a gwf, arguably a gf depending on some threat issues. (but that's another story) I know it's frustrating, I often feel like I'm getting carried and such, but it doesn't change the fact that I know what I'm doing and compliment my group. All I can say is wait patiently for the gwf changes and try to find yourself a semi-permanent group. Once your groups get better at the dungeon and their classes, why bring a 2nd DC? People just want to easy-mode and neglect gfs and gwfs, when some gfs and gwfs actually know what they're doing and CAN dps + are knowledgeable about the dungeon. I personally am not topping charts, but I've yet to finish my T2, and then I might play around with instigator. Like I said, just be patient.
Edit: If you ever wanna chat, I'm on beholder as well: Darkorin@skyblaze7.
Comments
The only reason I even recognized the name is because the GWF was actually decent and stuck in my mind.
Of the good players I've met I have on my friends list or group with for PvP.
Fair enough, I did change my feats today to move those 5 points around.
Guild Leader of MOPP4
MOPP 4′s community was created to cater to those who have served or currently serve in the armed forces around the world as well as friends, family & supporters of the armed forces. We also now proudly support the Wounded Warrior Project. For more details please go here.
Since you're running an Instigator build, judging by your feats, you're probably doing fine keeping Deep Gash. The capstone 50% power buff actually up's the damage on the bleed, and the rumor is that each crit instantly refreshes it and proc's a tick on-hit. So basically you can think of Deep Gash as a damage proc on crit that continues to produce damage. On any other build, I'd say drop it but it works for what you're using.
I noticed that further up someone recommended going for Great Weapon Focus, and I wholly agree with that assessment but to be totally honest I don't think you'll be able to. You would need to drop either the bleed or SotS to get it, and I'm not sure that either of those is really 'skippable'. Certainly if you had to choose between the two, Deep Gash would probably the the better choice to drop. The only way to know for sure is to parse both of them pretty extensively, but I'm going to go out on a limb here and say it's probably a wash.
Also, since you're Instigator I'd say you need more critical chance. Fast, vicious criticals are really what Instigator seems to be built on. That, and helping your teams damage which you obviously have covered.
Keep in mind I don't play an Instigator, so I'm probably not the best person to give advice. This is just how I see it though.
I did pump my crit up, also managed to get some good drops and have dramatically modified my overall stats. Up t0 32% crit now, did spec change to swap deep gash for GF. To be honest, I think there's MAYBE a 1% difference in total DPS between either option. 10% of at wills versus what I found to be an 8% total damage bonus at very low crit levels. The way crits work in this game and with so many AOE attacks, I could see that being more like 9% at higher crit levels.
I did ask a question in another thread about Armor Pen. Wondering if when you put a group together with all the abilities and individual player's armor pen if points in armor pen are really worth it. Isn't it likely the the mobs def is already pretty much zero before you even really factor your own ArP. Maybe then crit is really #1, maybe you need some small base of ArP which comes mostly off itemization and enchant for crit, power and recovery.
Guild Leader of MOPP4
MOPP 4′s community was created to cater to those who have served or currently serve in the armed forces around the world as well as friends, family & supporters of the armed forces. We also now proudly support the Wounded Warrior Project. For more details please go here.
Actually, you're making my point for me. The point of my post is that a GWF requires everyone to play smarter because you probably don't have the safety net of the extra DC or the extra CW or the extra TR.
Guild Leader of MOPP4
MOPP 4′s community was created to cater to those who have served or currently serve in the armed forces around the world as well as friends, family & supporters of the armed forces. We also now proudly support the Wounded Warrior Project. For more details please go here.
Edit: If you ever wanna chat, I'm on beholder as well: Darkorin@skyblaze7.