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Lack of hotkey slots gives game a cheap feel.

selminusselminus Member Posts: 3 Arc User
edited June 2013 in PvE Discussion
I enjoy NW but I think that the lack of basic hotkey slots makes the game feel a little cheap and 2 dimensional. I understand trying to promote diversity but between the 3 basic slots and strange skill tree layout it just doesn't feel right. Reminds me of Diablo 3 a little, not a good feeling.
Post edited by selminus on
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Comments

  • holt3holt3 Member Posts: 333 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Feels great to me. This isn't WoW. Maybe you should go play that?
  • versat1leeversat1lee Member Posts: 11
    edited June 2013
    I would kill to have more slots for spells that I can use in battle !
  • lordoffilinglordoffiling Member Posts: 5 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    There's a game called Star Wars: The Old Republic. When I first played it I thought to myself, "This is going to be great! Star Wars MMO! I can't wait for that flavor of combat to come to the genre!"

    That's what I *thought* until I realized that having a bazillion skills on a skillbar just like WoW did it was not the way to go. Nor, really, in hindsight, should games have ever gone there.

    In The Old Republic, my character has about six different skills to "twist" in any given fight, and about a dozen more that I must be ready to deploy at a moment's notice given the situation. This creates a circumstance in which I'm constantly looking at the *buttons* to see which cooldown is ending next, and not looking at the center of the screen, which is where the exciting, fun stuff is happening. You know, the stuff I came to see.

    Add to that the fact that "push-button" type combat just doesn't feel very visceral and engaging and you start to quickly see how Neverwinter landed this one right on the green with their design. I personally couldn't be happier.
  • kasuharikasuhari Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 2 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    I have the same feeling, why does they give us all this skill when we can only use 3 of our main skills not counting the power gauge and left and right attack.
  • mic281mic281 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 115 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    I like the way the hotkeys are. I played another new MMO recently and it seemed like every level I was getting a new skill. When you have so many it's hard to keep track of all of them. This other MMO has combat very similar to NW and trying to use Q,E,R,V and 1-0 while also using W to move got real clunky.

    I also like having to choose my combat skill wisely.
  • mistriosumistriosu Member Posts: 279 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    It's Dungeons and Dragons.
    You get two at will powers, 3 encounter powers, and a daily power.
    It promotes you to actually think and plan for the encounter. *gasp* what an idea!
  • churchilligcchurchilligc Member Posts: 175 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    Because it's action combat.

    You are meant to not suck and die while staying mobile to always gain position rather than hit the right cooldown at the right time.
  • karaadkaraad Member Posts: 89
    edited June 2013
    versat1lee wrote: »
    I would kill to have more slots for spells that I can use in battle !

    Limiting the number of spells/attacks a player can use is a way of keeping the game closer to DnD.

    In pen and paper DnD, mages can only cast spells so many times before having to rest to regain mana. Atleast your not having to run back to the camp fire every 5 minutes to reset your spells.
  • ehraehra Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    The reason this game has less skills than other MMOs like WoW, Rift, and TOR, is because they don't give you 3 copies of the same skill, only with slightly different cast times, cooldowns, and damage. I vastly prefer this sort of approach.
  • mic281mic281 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 115 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    There's a game called Star Wars: The Old Republic. When I first played it I thought to myself, "This is going to be great! Star Wars MMO! I can't wait for that flavor of combat to come to the genre!"

    Yep, I was on that same hype train. Man I was so excited. I thought it would be the greatest thing since SWG Pre-CU. My wife got me the CE for Christmas but I had to wait till I got back from AFG to play. By the time I got home in March the game was already on the path to doom. It is unfortunate that they missed the mark with such a huge player base ready eagerly awaiting a Star Wars MMO.
  • kasuharikasuhari Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 2 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    mistriosu wrote: »
    It's Dungeons and Dragons.
    You get two at will powers, 3 encounter powers, and a daily power.
    It promotes you to actually think and plan for the encounter. *gasp* what an idea!

    Well, they should atleast have a hotkey or keybind that can swap between the Hotbar skills then. Can do it only outside of battle to prevent abused. But having to manually swap the skill around every boss fight is horrible, no one will wait for you and it is so time consuming to do. What is the point of leveling up all this skills when you don't use 80% of it?
  • ehraehra Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    kasuhari wrote: »
    Well, they should atleast have a hotkey or keybind that can swap between the Hotbar skills then. Can do it only outside of battle to prevent abused. But having to manually swap the skill around every boss fight is horrible

    This is definitely a quality of life feature I can get behind. Give us 2 or 3 pre-loaded hotbar setups and add a UI element that lets you swap between them when out of combat.
  • lilmonkey222lilmonkey222 Banned Users Posts: 296 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    kasuhari wrote: »
    Well, they should atleast have a hotkey or keybind that can swap between the Hotbar skills then. Can do it only outside of battle to prevent abused. But having to manually swap the skill around every boss fight is horrible, no one will wait for you and it is so time consuming to do. What is the point of leveling up all this skills when you don't use 80% of it?

    Yes, that would be great. Most players will want at least 3 configurations: regular PvE, PvE boss fights and PvP. Probably more once raids and larger-scale Gauntlgrym PvP are out.
  • churchilligcchurchilligc Member Posts: 175 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    I think part of the reason is so that it's easier to try skills out and have PVE and PVP skills.

    This falls short because you still have to respec feats sometimes.

    That said, a hotbar swap would be nice and is a pretty standard feature.
  • lordoffilinglordoffiling Member Posts: 5 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    mic281 wrote: »
    Yep, I was on that same hype train. Man I was so excited. I thought it would be the greatest thing since SWG Pre-CU. My wife got me the CE for Christmas but I had to wait till I got back from AFG to play. By the time I got home in March the game was already on the path to doom. It is unfortunate that they missed the mark with such a huge player base ready eagerly awaiting a Star Wars MMO.

    Well? They went with last generation. What did anyone expect?

    It's like they were over there and said, "Okay! We've got Bioware style storytelling, what else do we want to do that's different from the other guys?"

    And then the purseholders at EA said, "Nothing. You will do nothing else different. You will identify the most successful game in the market and copy them exactly."

    And down it went. Because that don't work.

    All of these WoW clones generally have the same problem: They're trying to be better than Blizzard at their own game. Let's face it. Nobody is better than Blizzard when it comes to the kinds of games they make. The only way you win is to do something *else*, something that competes in the same market but is different and, hopefully, better than the Blizzard way.

    I'd have cried if Neverwinter had launched and people had called it a WoW clone. People have said many things about it, but that's the one thing I haven't heard, and I couldn't be happier. I know I just said that. It bears repeating.
  • lordoffilinglordoffiling Member Posts: 5 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    kasuhari wrote: »
    Well, they should atleast have a hotkey or keybind that can swap between the Hotbar skills then. Can do it only outside of battle to prevent abused. But having to manually swap the skill around every boss fight is horrible, no one will wait for you and it is so time consuming to do. What is the point of leveling up all this skills when you don't use 80% of it?

    Dingdingdingdingding!

    Give this man a cigar and a blowtorch to light it with!

    Cryptic, formal request initiated: Let us have hotkeys that let us switch between different configurations of our skills! That's a great idea.
  • edge1986edge1986 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 647 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    Well? They went with last generation. What did anyone expect?

    It's like they were over there and said, "Okay! We've got Bioware style storytelling, what else do we want to do that's different from the other guys?"

    And then the purseholders at EA said, "Nothing. You will do nothing else different. You will identify the most successful game in the market and copy them exactly."

    And down it went. Because that don't work.

    All of these WoW clones generally have the same problem: They're trying to be better than Blizzard at their own game. Let's face it. Nobody is better than Blizzard when it comes to the kinds of games they make. The only way you win is to do something *else*, something that competes in the same market but is different and, hopefully, better than the Blizzard way.

    I'd have cried if Neverwinter had launched and people had called it a WoW clone. People have said many things about it, but that's the one thing I haven't heard, and I couldn't be happier. I know I just said that. It bears repeating.

    Meh WoW kept me entertained from release until Cata launched. Already bored of this game and dread logging in.
  • itheryelitheryel Member Posts: 335 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    In pen and paper DnD, mages can only cast spells so many times before having to rest to regain mana. Atleast your not having to run back to the camp fire every 5 minutes to reset your spells.

    What they are balancing CW's? :D
    Petram Sacram - I am no devine cleric, i am a Gaurdian fighter in disguise with better threat and supportive spells -
  • kiraliakiralia Member Posts: 383 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    I agree that having too many skills to focus on in an action mmo would be bad. Also that the way they have done it is in keeping with D & D. However I do feel that I end up using only a fraction of the available skills as a cleric because if I slot the others I don't think they would be as useful, even if I would love to use some of them too.

    Being able to switch between pre-loaded skill bars would be a great quality of life addition.
  • osiabunnyosiabunny Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Because it's action combat.

    You are meant to not suck and die while staying mobile to always gain position rather than hit the right cooldown at the right time.

    hehe Staying mobile while every melee mob stays with you everywhere you go?
    Take damage even if you run out of a circle (not the dodge) sometimes take damage when you use the dodge though. (probably lag)
    It's incredibly annoying how fast mobs move compared to you, that normally after I teleport and pan around the melee mobs are already there hitting me >>

    I will add, at least the big hitters and bosses behave like gentlemen, showing you what they are about to do and you can actually dodge them proper.
  • uvirith1uvirith1 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 124
    edited June 2013
    Oh my
  • prometheusenprometheusen Member Posts: 63 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    I find it interesting that this is one of the first games I can think of that virtually every single key on the keyboard does something. More hotkeys? What keys are left???

    I do however feel that the present menu of skills available are too polarized in that some are staples and some are a waste of feat points. The amount of variety present in builds is nigh nonexistent... at least earlier on the definitive choice of skills from class-to-class is a little hard to tell, so you're likely to experiment and try out the sully-ones of the catalog.
  • uvirith1uvirith1 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 124
    edited June 2013
    I find it interesting that this is one of the first games I can think of that virtually every single key on the keyboard does something. More hotkeys? What keys are left???

    I do however feel that the present menu of skills available are too polarized in that some are staples and some are a waste of feat points. The amount of variety present in builds is nigh nonexistent... at least earlier on the definitive choice of skills from class-to-class is a little hard to tell, so you're likely to experiment and try out the sully-ones of the catalog.
    Well, my gaming-setup has 47 easy reachable keybinds which I know in my sleep. Dont think Neverwinter has that many buttons.

    OnTopic: I think both sides are right. The times of classic-mmos with 30+ keys are over. But Neverwinter definitely has not enough buttons to press. ActionRPGs are supposed to be easy, I get that, but every brain should manage to press 12 buttons. In my opinion thats the absolute minimum for every kind of RPG.
  • koudelkamorgankoudelkamorgan Member Posts: 57 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Personally, thought its "not D&D" I'd have the at wills mapped to the current skill slots along with your dailys and tab skill, then hold down the left or right mouse buttons to access your other 2 skill bars.

    Like Sacred 2 on the Ps3, holding L1 or R1 would change the skills mapped to the face buttons.

    Having to choose your powers for each encounter is good in theory, but when the choice is VERY easy to the point that the majority of people keep the same powers loaded all the time because they are CLEARLY better for more encounters or EVERY encounter then its not really a choice anymore.

    Its you knowing your class, or you being an idiot. There should be VERY different types of encounters to necessitate the use of different powers. The powers themselves should offer intriguing new ways to play, if you are expected only have a very limited selection of them handy.

    Pretend this is Mega Man 2, and you can only use 2 weapons. You'd be an idiot not to pick the Metal Blade obviously, and the default Mega Buster is too useful since it has range, speed, and infinite ammo.

    Sure you could choose to have the Leaf Shield or Flash Stopper for the novelty but you'd be kicked from the metaphorical party once you displayed your lack of seriousness at the task at hand.

    I mostly play PWI, where I've mained a Psychic and a Mystic. I have access to multiple skill/item/extra bars that I can map ALL my skills to, my potions, my mount, emotes, etc. and still have an extra 2 unused bars to work with.

    It might not have quite as intense an emphasis on dodging, because most mobs/bosses have ranged attacks, but its still fun and challenging. I don't just dodge around spamming 2 or 3 skills hour after hour through tiny linear areas filled with clusters of 4 or 5 mobs, that I engage in the same way at lvl55 as I did at lvl5 like Neverwinter. I also can't just log in for 3 seconds to pray a few times a day and reach cap in a week.

    Its also a game where clerics don't expect you to NOT need any healing, and you CAN do just fine without one.
    samus_forum_tag_by_artbyanarchy-d5nz2ih.png
    I Aim To Misbehave
  • jihancritiasjihancritias Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    mic281 wrote: »
    Yep, I was on that same hype train. Man I was so excited. I thought it would be the greatest thing since SWG Pre-CU. My wife got me the CE for Christmas but I had to wait till I got back from AFG to play. By the time I got home in March the game was already on the path to doom. It is unfortunate that they missed the mark with such a huge player base ready eagerly awaiting a Star Wars MMO.

    Every time someone mentions SWG, I get crazy. I loved that game, before CU. If only they would have upgraded graphics, added instances, and a few other things...

    SWTOR was a let down for me. The only thing that gave me that Star Wars feeling was the sounds and music.
    TL : DR? Then don't waste my time responding.
  • yultyult Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 181 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    Let's face it: This game is way too easy. Yeah, bosses are too easy, but also combat in general is far too easy. The fact that there are only about 6 buttons one will ever be required to press plays a huge role in this. There is almost no thought required. You basically just push each of 4 buttons whenever they are available, and otherwise hold down your mouse button for at-will. It's the simplest combat system I have ever seen in an MMO, and that is not a good thing.

    Tera is an action MMORPG. The combat in that game is amazing. It takes orders of magnitude more skill than this game does. More skills available means you need to know which skills work in which situations, with situations changing minute by minute, second by second. That requires skill, practice, and strategy, and it makes combat a million times more rewarding than Neverwinter.
  • gauche123gauche123 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 5 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    I have played both Tera and this, and can safely say the skill required is negligible in both. Having 4 buttons or 40 does not really make a game more difficult. It just ups the learning curve by a couple hours.

    That said, it would be great to have the ability to hotkey more potions and the other companions at least. I like having to choose abilities.
  • holt3holt3 Member Posts: 333 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    ehra wrote: »
    This is definitely a quality of life feature I can get behind. Give us 2 or 3 pre-loaded hotbar setups and add a UI element that lets you swap between them when out of combat.

    There we go! Now we're talkin'. 2 or 3 pre-sets that all we need to do is hit a number key.... out of combat.
  • ambisinisterrambisinisterr Member, Neverwinter Moderator Posts: 10,462 Community Moderator
    edited June 2013
    Can't say I agree. I'm loving the slimmed down system.

    I do miss my activated items though (Wands, Rods, Items of Power) not to mention activated racial powers (Darkness Please!)
    However 3 additional slots specifically for those would be the extend of what I would really like implemented.
  • mhblis1mhblis1 Member Posts: 167 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    I have to +1 the preset bars that I can swap between out of combat. In fact that is the very thing I came here to post about.

    I like having to chose my skills for each situation and once class balance actually happens and all the skills are brought into line we will see less of the cookie cutter style and more variation. Right now with half the skills and feats not working you're only hurting yourself by experimenting.

    And just so people know WOW, EQ, AO all went with the 30+ buttons on screen and all started out with cookie cutter builds until the class balance was properly implemented. Hell even now after about 45 a Warrior in WOW still just uses the same 3 buttons over and over while leveling and in most dungeons so in reality you have a few corner case buttons you might sometimes push for variation.
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