Trickster rogues are overpowered. People talk about cw having amazing control, well honestly they're control isnt that much more impressive than TR. Trickster rogues also have crazy survivabilty and utilty in parties. dazing strike, smoke bomb. Also in pvp against a team heavy with cw just slot in impossible to catch. I don't know why some trickster rogues believe other classes have that much more utility apart from GF and DC who are heals and tanks. I've played quite a few T2 with GW, Dc and just rogues. It isn't balanced and it makes it harder to farm gear. There is a problem in balancing because you guys all say well TR is only striker but they also have good control and survivability. Also how can you balance control, e.g. TR doe 50% more dmg than other classes but how do you say, well class x should do 50% more control than TR to make up for it. You can't measure control and its usefulness is just not adequate enough in pve.
It is funny when people use the excuse that they're a striker, because rogues also have great control and survivability. Tone down their dmg and reduce their control.
Why nerf anything? Why not just buff the other classes? Bring them on par, or at least closer. Nerfing never helps, it just pisses people off.
I think people react negatively to the word, nerf. But here is the deal. I've played all the classes and CWs and Rogues are pretty over the top. CWs are probably the worst. No one can deny the current state of the game and class balance. Some adjustments are going to have to made. With the high damage and the ability to shut down their target, you can bypass the need for a GF. Now if thats what Perfect World intended then I am fine with that.
However outside of PVE, there are some glaring class design issues and most of us recognize that. To deny the obvious or look the other way...well thats just pretty much acknowledging you don't want your main to get "fine tuned". I personally am of the mind of not wanting to play a class that is over the top. I like some challenge in a game. What's the point if you are on top and its mostly because of the class you choose? Thats not fun for anyone unless you enjoy god mode. If that's the case, go play skyrim or something and mod it so you can't take damage or deal infinite damage.
Common sense tells me that changes are a coming and I'm not saying this to be vindictive or vengeful because I like all the classes and have played them all. I say this because I want a great game that realizes all the classes need to be on the same playing field.
I'm going to disagree with this post but agree at the same time. I think you all think rogues and CWs are over the top due to 3 skills: Shocking Execution, Ice Knife, Ray of Enfeeblement. However, if you nerf or get rid of those 3 skills, you have to do the same to Astral Shield (especially the stacking), Crescendo and Savage, and any high damage spike abilities that GF has.
Here is my reasoning for that, if all players had the same tiered gears, enchants, runes, etc, Rogues and CWs will have a hard time killing Clerics, GF, and GWF without Shocking Execution, Ice Knife, or Ray of Enfeeblement unless they removed the skills I mentioned above for the other classes.
The current problem with pvp arena is that they match new 60 or level 60s with t1 gears against players with t2 or better gears. Most of the people on here complaining about rogues are under geared and go up against a select few rogues that have much better gears. I will even go further and say that mostly only fully t2 geared rogues joins pvp because it's easier for them to farm glory to sell the pvp pieces for gold because they are a high single target burst damage class. (basically, the best class to use to pick on noobs)
Only if the Rogue is much better geared and if the person is dumb and stands still. All I'm saying is, if I see my health dropping, somebody is obviously hitting me so obviously I'm going to use my shift to get away from it. -_-
I swear, MMO gamers are getting dumber and dumber by the day. No wonder why the MMO genre is so dumbed down now.
Only if the Rogue is much better geared and if the person is dumb and stands still. All I'm saying is, if I see my health dropping, somebody is obviously hitting me so obviously I'm going to use my shift to get away from it. -_-
I swear, MMO gamers are getting dumber and dumber by the day. No wonder why the MMO genre is so dumbed down now.
You can't dodge right away when you get dismounted. They expect you to waste your dodge from the get go and so you either waste another dodge avoiding their CoS spam but then you'll get hit with impact shot.
In a 1v1, smokebomb and/or dazing strike are useless against someone specced into Mocking Knave and have impact shot and ITC on their bar. Better gear means they'll kill you much faster.
people just need to learn 2 play. Does anyone not remember rogues being "op" in WoW until people learned how to correctly exploit their weaknesses?
Rogues were OP in Vanilla WoW because I mained one. You could stun-lock someone to death, taking them from 100-0. There's a video on youtube showing a Vanilla rogue stun-locking high-ranking pvp players with no gear but two daggers. No armor, no trinkets, no rings whatsoever, just using the CC skills that rogues have.
It changed when Blizzard implemented diminishing returns on CC though.
Rogues were OP in Vanilla WoW because I mained one. You could stun-lock someone to death, taking them from 100-0. There's a video on youtube showing a Vanilla rogue stun-locking high-ranking pvp players with no gear but two daggers. No armor, no trinkets, no rings whatsoever, just using the CC skills that rogues have.
It changed when Blizzard implemented diminishing returns on CC though.
If you're taking about World of Roguecraft he was fighting an incompetent player and using eviscerate which didn't take gear into account. You could only stunlock people from 100-0 if they were equally incompetent and didn't know how to LoS and avoid kidneyshot. Diminishing returns effected all classes equally as warlocks could fear forever and mages could polymorph forever
If you're taking about World of Roguecraft he was fighting an incompetent player and using eviscerate which didn't take gear into account. You could only stunlock people from 100-0 if they were equally incompetent and didn't know how to LoS and avoid kidneyshot. Diminishing returns effected all classes equally as warlocks could fear forever and mages could polymorph forever
Except rogues stuns did not share the same diminishing returns. And how do you LoS someone invisible?
For those who arent aware (keep in mind the episode 1 is the last, while episode 3 is the first)
And please, lets improve the level of the arguments here. For instance, buff other classes instead of nerfing it is reasonable enough.
But:
- Dual wielding is not an excuse to do <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> damage
- Its ok if a squishy guy do higher levels of damage. Its not ok for him to do absurd damage, have stealth, dodge, aoe, silence and being able to do strong ranged attacks. Seriously, rogues on this game are just missing a fireball spell and a shield weapon.
- Clerics and cws being broken does not make the rogue class ok.
rogues dont have strong ranged damage, and 20 yards isn't very far.
they have a short range dodge that hold them in place to recover from the roll for an entire secnd
they have two aoes that use up a valuable encounter slot, and are completely worthless.
if you're going to complain, at least complain about stuff that doesn't make you look like a horrid player and a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>
If you're taking about World of Roguecraft he was fighting an incompetent player and using eviscerate which didn't take gear into account. You could only stunlock people from 100-0 if they were equally incompetent and didn't know how to LoS and avoid kidneyshot. Diminishing returns effected all classes equally as warlocks could fear forever and mages could polymorph forever
Maydie was the best warrior in vanilla wow back in the day. if you were around at this time, you'd know, he was a wrecking ball.
stunlocks back then didnt have dimishing returns, neither did fears or anything else.
i've played my rogue since back then and all the way up until the game became unbearably easy, and i know when rogues were over powered and when they were gimped.
if you watch that video, sap even broke stealth, so this was waaaaaaay back in the day.
that being said wow rogues and NWO rogues have like... nothing in common. the stealth mechanics are not even the same. there's a ton of burst and chain CC for rogues in this game are almost nonexistant, and easy to get away from.
so, comparing vanilla wow rogues to NWO rogues is freaking lol-worthy
GF can block everything including cc even from behind, they can knock down targets permanently, and have almost-permanent gap closer.
CWs can chain cc, nuke any single target in 3-4 seconds, and teleport 3 times. And hey, that teleport can also negate any damage from skills hit them 0.5 second before their teleport.
Clerics can put down their Astral Shield, then tank like bosses. 2 of them at a same place? Do not waste your time on them!
So funny that this is coming from a CW. CW has unfair perks because some skills are not working as intended atm such as being able to gain ap outside of combat and proc rate. Ray of Enfeeblement is broken as hell lmao. Rogues on the other hand have the same issue but in a negative way - Tencious concealment not giving the 90% stealth bar reduction when getting damaged. So, atm, whenever a bad player OP class CW uses ray of enfeeblement and a rogue goes into stealth, it's gf half hp bar + gf stealth mode/bar because it drops within 2 seconds due to TC not working as intended + RoE doing way more dmg than it should be doing. But yes, by all means - let's ask for a rogue nerf. Hilarious.
David Valtiere, Lvl 70 TR with perfect Lvl 60 gear which I don't want to replace cause nostalgia yo ;_;
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darkzarMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2013
No offense but you must really suck at your class if you think rogue's are too OP. Play one first, give us your opinion later.
And please, lets improve the level of the arguments here. For instance, buff other classes instead of nerfing it is reasonable enough.
But:
- Dual wielding is not an excuse to do <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> damage
- Its ok if a squishy guy do higher levels of damage. Its not ok for him to do absurd damage, have stealth, dodge, aoe, silence and being able to do strong ranged attacks. Seriously, rogues on this game are just missing a fireball spell and a shield weapon.
- Clerics and cws being broken does not make the rogue class ok.
Stealth isn't really all that useful in PvP. If someone targets you before you pop it, then they can still see you. Think about it: what's the advantage of stealth if there's a red ring surrounding your character? It's nice if you actually manage to sneak up on someone, but the maps are so small this rarely happens. Silencing, stealth, and dodging are what rogues are supposed to do. From a lore perspective, how do stealthy assassins function? Through being agile, sneaky, and using dirty tricks. And yes - they also do great damage, because they are assassins. Most assassins don't have long prolonged fights, they kill in one swift, precise motion.
What are their weaknesses? Assassins are 1 on 1 fights, but don't excel at group combat. It's laughable that you mention we have "aoe", when our aoe abilities are absolute trash. And they should be, admittedly. Assassins also don't have the armor or defense of classes for forsake agility for protection. In reality, rogues should be one of the weakest in PvP since it's all about prolonged fights around capturing points and group combat but the issue is - no one plays smart. People just rush off by themselves hoping to top the kill charts. They treat it like it's a 1v1 arena instead of team-based combat with an objective to STAND STILL and capture points. This play style really only benefits one class...rogues.
The ranged damage comment is an interesting one because I feel like it's necessary to fight against the ranged classes who would just stun us to death from a distance. When PvP is based around standing still on a capture point, it would be pretty crappy being a squishy melee class against a CW you couldn't possibly touch. But I can also see why it would upset people. So I don't know about that one.
A rich rogue nowadays is fit company for any gentleman; and the world, my dear, hath not such a contempt for roguery as you imagine. - John HAMSTER
I play TR, and probably not very well because I get stunlocked by GF's and GWF's, if a CW sees me before I stealth up I'm hanging in the air, waiting to die by an Iceknife, which can very easily one-shot-kill thank you very much.
But I realize the only real OP power, are your four teammates.
Stealth isn't really all that useful in PvP. If someone targets you before you pop it, then they can still see you. Think about it: what's the advantage of stealth if there's a red ring surrounding your character? It's nice if you actually manage to sneak up on someone, but the maps are so small this rarely happens. Silencing, stealth, and dodging are what rogues are supposed to do. From a lore perspective, how do stealthy assassins function? Through being agile, sneaky, and using dirty tricks. And yes - they also do great damage, because they are assassins. Most assassins don't have long prolonged fights, they kill in one swift, precise motion.
What are their weaknesses? Assassins are 1 on 1 fights, but don't excel at group combat. It's laughable that you mention we have "aoe", when our aoe abilities are absolute trash. And they should be, admittedly. Assassins also don't have the armor or defense of classes for forsake agility for protection. In reality, rogues should be one of the weakest in PvP since it's all about prolonged fights around capturing points and group combat but the issue is - no one plays smart. People just rush off by themselves hoping to top the kill charts. They treat it like it's a 1v1 arena instead of team-based combat with an objective to STAND STILL and capture points. This play style really only benefits one class...rogues.
The ranged damage comment is an interesting one because I feel like it's necessary to fight against the ranged classes who would just stun us to death from a distance. When PvP is based around standing still on a capture point, it would be pretty crappy being a squishy melee class against a CW you couldn't possibly touch. But I can also see why it would upset people. So I don't know about that one.
You're missing a key thing about rogues. They're not assassins in D&D. They're agile and stealthy fighters with a lot of talents. (talents as in, in D&D you get a ton of skill points to spend on skills) Sure they can be built as assassins, but assassin is a separate prestige class for rogue, not his main role. The wiki even says that the rogue is a damage dealer focusing on stealth, speed and precision with some control options. Not an assassin that goes in for a quick kill.
Don't get me wrong, my main class is a rogue and I love playing one. But I agree with the people complaining that a rogue CAN do too much damage. I say CAN because a rogue only does so if he catches the enemy off-guard. Imo, our burst needs to be toned down a little bit. But if done so, our bugs need to be fixed as well. Like people sometimes still seeing us in stealth, or multiple duelist's flurry bleeds not stacking, or the bleed stacks doing either very little or too much damage.
In other words, a rogue's spike damage needs to be lowered a little bit, but at the same time our skills need to be fixed. So we end up with less burst damage, but also less erratic sustained damage.
You're missing a key thing about rogues. They're not assassins in D&D. They're agile and stealthy fighters with a lot of talents. (talents as in, in D&D you get a ton of skill points to spend on skills) Sure they can be built as assassins, but assassin is a separate prestige class for rogue, not his main role. The wiki even says that the rogue is a damage dealer focusing on stealth, speed and precision with some control options. Not an assassin that goes in for a quick kill.
Don't get me wrong, my main class is a rogue and I love playing one. But I agree with the people complaining that a rogue CAN do too much damage. I say CAN because a rogue only does so if he catches the enemy off-guard. Imo, our burst needs to be toned down a little bit. But if done so, our bugs need to be fixed as well. Like people sometimes still seeing us in stealth, or multiple duelist's flurry bleeds not stacking, or the bleed stacks doing either very little or too much damage.
In other words, a rogue's spike damage needs to be lowered a little bit, but at the same time our skills need to be fixed. So we end up with less burst damage, but also less erratic sustained damage.
So basically you want rogues to become like GWF's are atm but without the stunlock and auto target/AoE abilities? Oh joy, CW's would just love that. They'd be able to out-DPS TR's AND do so from great distance lmao.
Burst damage is all that a rogue has mate, you are talking about toning down the only thing that rogues excel in. Might aswell delete your rogue and roll any other class if they change that.
David Valtiere, Lvl 70 TR with perfect Lvl 60 gear which I don't want to replace cause nostalgia yo ;_;
You're missing a key thing about rogues. They're not assassins in D&D. They're agile and stealthy fighters with a lot of talents. (talents as in, in D&D you get a ton of skill points to spend on skills) Sure they can be built as assassins, but assassin is a separate prestige class for rogue, not his main role. The wiki even says that the rogue is a damage dealer focusing on stealth, speed and precision with some control options. Not an assassin that goes in for a quick kill.
Don't get me wrong, my main class is a rogue and I love playing one. But I agree with the people complaining that a rogue CAN do too much damage. I say CAN because a rogue only does so if he catches the enemy off-guard. Imo, our burst needs to be toned down a little bit. But if done so, our bugs need to be fixed as well. Like people sometimes still seeing us in stealth, or multiple duelist's flurry bleeds not stacking, or the bleed stacks doing either very little or too much damage.
In other words, a rogue's spike damage needs to be lowered a little bit, but at the same time our skills need to be fixed. So we end up with less burst damage, but also less erratic sustained damage.
From a purely in-universe, "fluff" perspective I just can't wrap my mind around the idea that a thief should have better sustained damage than burst. I mean, he's not a knight. The real problem here is that the rogue is the only single-target DPS in the game, and that means they basically gave him the best of both worlds and can't really change it because PvE would be a mess.
And therein lies a real problem here - half the things people complain about what rogues do in PvP is entirely necessary for the class in PvE.
A rich rogue nowadays is fit company for any gentleman; and the world, my dear, hath not such a contempt for roguery as you imagine. - John HAMSTER
Imo, our burst needs to be toned down a little bit. But if done so, our bugs need to be fixed as well. Like people sometimes still seeing us in stealth, or multiple duelist's flurry bleeds not stacking, or the bleed stacks doing either very little or too much damage.
Ahm, sorry, but you are wrong. The burst at-will/encounter/daily damage of the rogue comes from abilities with an high cooldown and an quite slow animation, mean it can be easlily avoided if you are not afk or controlled.
As a rogue myself, I find the easiest target ... other rogues. Because their powers can so easily dodged and require some time to recover. They also have only few CC powers and only one of them (dazing strikes) actually deals damage).
In addition, there are onyl 2 burst encounter powers, which are dazing strike and lashing blade. Even if both hit and crit, an target rarely dies at full health at same level/equip.
Imho, the encounter burst damage of a rogue is too low/cooldown time is to high compared to other classes, which can stunlock you (GF, GWF), or controll you to death (CW).
Stealth isn't really all that useful in PvP. If someone targets you before you pop it, then they can still see you. Think about it: what's the advantage of stealth if there's a red ring surrounding your character? It's nice if you actually manage to sneak up on someone, but the maps are so small this rarely happens. Silencing, stealth, and dodging are what rogues are supposed to do. From a lore perspective, how do stealthy assassins function? Through being agile, sneaky, and using dirty tricks. And yes - they also do great damage, because they are assassins. Most assassins don't have long prolonged fights, they kill in one swift, precise motion.
What are their weaknesses? Assassins are 1 on 1 fights, but don't excel at group combat. It's laughable that you mention we have "aoe", when our aoe abilities are absolute trash. And they should be, admittedly. Assassins also don't have the armor or defense of classes for forsake agility for protection. In reality, rogues should be one of the weakest in PvP since it's all about prolonged fights around capturing points and group combat but the issue is - no one plays smart. People just rush off by themselves hoping to top the kill charts. They treat it like it's a 1v1 arena instead of team-based combat with an objective to STAND STILL and capture points. This play style really only benefits one class...rogues.
The ranged damage comment is an interesting one because I feel like it's necessary to fight against the ranged classes who would just stun us to death from a distance. When PvP is based around standing still on a capture point, it would be pretty crappy being a squishy melee class against a CW you couldn't possibly touch. But I can also see why it would upset people. So I don't know about that one.
I do agree with your stealth tought. Looks like this game made a decent approach on stealth and have it balanced, and you got to know how to use it. I like it.
But armor doesnt add nothing on this game, how different is the damage you do to a gwf compared to a mage? Im not discussing clerics or gfs, cause their protection comes from their skills. Theres even topics debating how bad an armored class have it when you stack enough armor penetration compared to a lightly armored one.
About group pvp, theres nothing much to say, its broken as its finest at this moment. Being crit for 14k at level 40 by a gf, getting a dot with 2k tick by an invincible cleric or the famous glory farmers dance contest at the campfire respawn point, yeah, good times.
Im trying to not be biased here, just to improve the game. I play a gwf; my class is hands down the worst of all 5 atm, but even we can stunlock people for 80/90% of their hp once in a blue moon, this is not fair. Its not fair either for a melee assassin/agility based guy to kill me from distance throwing what, knives? while still being able to be stealth and having silence, slow, a blink spell and aoe (even a mediocre one)
Im ok with your melee damage, but theres just too much stuff available for a single class, its like a rifle shooting missiles with a chainsaw bayonet.
i loled hard... yet another **** who is ussles and idiot in pvp, first of all do you know how hard is to land a dazing strike? the only fast way to land it is when your stealth'ed when everyone see me jump in the air they just roll and dodge all the time... even same big number skills they just roll and dodge. l2 dodge and l2p before going all emo kid crying that rogues are OP, i can say same thing about GWF that later on 2 shot you and Mages with perma CC and stun lock's, but you just learn to counter them or die
Yet here is yet another idiot who is useless unless he is OP so he comes to the forums to call people names all because he is afraid they will actually have to learn how to play, and not use an OP class as a crutch.
I believe smoke bomb needs its cool down increased and yes you would THINK that someday a game will come out and NOT have any <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> stealth class.
Yet here is yet another idiot who is useless unless he is OP so he comes to the forums to call people names all because he is afraid they will actually have to learn how to play, and not use an OP class as a crutch.
I believe smoke bomb needs its cool down increased and yes you would THINK that someday a game will come out and NOT have any <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> stealth class.
You can walk out of smokebomb though. Smokebomb becomes cheesy when you're up against a premade with two clerics AS stacking and two TRs timing their smokebombs.
You can walk out of smokebomb though. Smokebomb becomes cheesy when you're up against a premade with two clerics AS stacking and two TRs timing their smokebombs.
Smoke is only OP when you decide to sit in it. And this is usually the case with inexperienced players, same as when they're dazed. They just stand there taking it, and then come to the boards whining how they got mauled by such an OP class.
W, A, S or D people, it will save your life when dazed.
Comments
Why nerf anything? Why not just buff the other classes? Bring them on par, or at least closer. Nerfing never helps, it just pisses people off.
or double people's HP in pvp. Another way to solve the problem!
Not sure that rogues are op at all.
If specced right, they can kill from range very quick while stealthed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y48A7iA3q6w
I understand you are trying to defend the class, but you are embarassing yourself.
I'm going to disagree with this post but agree at the same time. I think you all think rogues and CWs are over the top due to 3 skills: Shocking Execution, Ice Knife, Ray of Enfeeblement. However, if you nerf or get rid of those 3 skills, you have to do the same to Astral Shield (especially the stacking), Crescendo and Savage, and any high damage spike abilities that GF has.
Here is my reasoning for that, if all players had the same tiered gears, enchants, runes, etc, Rogues and CWs will have a hard time killing Clerics, GF, and GWF without Shocking Execution, Ice Knife, or Ray of Enfeeblement unless they removed the skills I mentioned above for the other classes.
The current problem with pvp arena is that they match new 60 or level 60s with t1 gears against players with t2 or better gears. Most of the people on here complaining about rogues are under geared and go up against a select few rogues that have much better gears. I will even go further and say that mostly only fully t2 geared rogues joins pvp because it's easier for them to farm glory to sell the pvp pieces for gold because they are a high single target burst damage class. (basically, the best class to use to pick on noobs)
Only if the Rogue is much better geared and if the person is dumb and stands still. All I'm saying is, if I see my health dropping, somebody is obviously hitting me so obviously I'm going to use my shift to get away from it. -_-
I swear, MMO gamers are getting dumber and dumber by the day. No wonder why the MMO genre is so dumbed down now.
You can't dodge right away when you get dismounted. They expect you to waste your dodge from the get go and so you either waste another dodge avoiding their CoS spam but then you'll get hit with impact shot.
In a 1v1, smokebomb and/or dazing strike are useless against someone specced into Mocking Knave and have impact shot and ITC on their bar. Better gear means they'll kill you much faster.
Rogues were OP in Vanilla WoW because I mained one. You could stun-lock someone to death, taking them from 100-0. There's a video on youtube showing a Vanilla rogue stun-locking high-ranking pvp players with no gear but two daggers. No armor, no trinkets, no rings whatsoever, just using the CC skills that rogues have.
It changed when Blizzard implemented diminishing returns on CC though.
If you're taking about World of Roguecraft he was fighting an incompetent player and using eviscerate which didn't take gear into account. You could only stunlock people from 100-0 if they were equally incompetent and didn't know how to LoS and avoid kidneyshot. Diminishing returns effected all classes equally as warlocks could fear forever and mages could polymorph forever
Except rogues stuns did not share the same diminishing returns. And how do you LoS someone invisible?
For those who arent aware (keep in mind the episode 1 is the last, while episode 3 is the first)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u55vHURPQSw
But:
- Dual wielding is not an excuse to do <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> damage
- Its ok if a squishy guy do higher levels of damage. Its not ok for him to do absurd damage, have stealth, dodge, aoe, silence and being able to do strong ranged attacks. Seriously, rogues on this game are just missing a fireball spell and a shield weapon.
- Clerics and cws being broken does not make the rogue class ok.
they have a short range dodge that hold them in place to recover from the roll for an entire secnd
they have two aoes that use up a valuable encounter slot, and are completely worthless.
if you're going to complain, at least complain about stuff that doesn't make you look like a horrid player and a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>
Maydie was the best warrior in vanilla wow back in the day. if you were around at this time, you'd know, he was a wrecking ball.
stunlocks back then didnt have dimishing returns, neither did fears or anything else.
i've played my rogue since back then and all the way up until the game became unbearably easy, and i know when rogues were over powered and when they were gimped.
if you watch that video, sap even broke stealth, so this was waaaaaaay back in the day.
that being said wow rogues and NWO rogues have like... nothing in common. the stealth mechanics are not even the same. there's a ton of burst and chain CC for rogues in this game are almost nonexistant, and easy to get away from.
so, comparing vanilla wow rogues to NWO rogues is freaking lol-worthy
CWs can chain cc, nuke any single target in 3-4 seconds, and teleport 3 times. And hey, that teleport can also negate any damage from skills hit them 0.5 second before their teleport.
Clerics can put down their Astral Shield, then tank like bosses. 2 of them at a same place? Do not waste your time on them!
Everyone is so OP! Please nerf all.
Thank you!
:cool:
What Class Are You?
Sincerely,
A Rogue.
Stealth isn't really all that useful in PvP. If someone targets you before you pop it, then they can still see you. Think about it: what's the advantage of stealth if there's a red ring surrounding your character? It's nice if you actually manage to sneak up on someone, but the maps are so small this rarely happens. Silencing, stealth, and dodging are what rogues are supposed to do. From a lore perspective, how do stealthy assassins function? Through being agile, sneaky, and using dirty tricks. And yes - they also do great damage, because they are assassins. Most assassins don't have long prolonged fights, they kill in one swift, precise motion.
What are their weaknesses? Assassins are 1 on 1 fights, but don't excel at group combat. It's laughable that you mention we have "aoe", when our aoe abilities are absolute trash. And they should be, admittedly. Assassins also don't have the armor or defense of classes for forsake agility for protection. In reality, rogues should be one of the weakest in PvP since it's all about prolonged fights around capturing points and group combat but the issue is - no one plays smart. People just rush off by themselves hoping to top the kill charts. They treat it like it's a 1v1 arena instead of team-based combat with an objective to STAND STILL and capture points. This play style really only benefits one class...rogues.
The ranged damage comment is an interesting one because I feel like it's necessary to fight against the ranged classes who would just stun us to death from a distance. When PvP is based around standing still on a capture point, it would be pretty crappy being a squishy melee class against a CW you couldn't possibly touch. But I can also see why it would upset people. So I don't know about that one.
But I realize the only real OP power, are your four teammates.
You're missing a key thing about rogues. They're not assassins in D&D. They're agile and stealthy fighters with a lot of talents. (talents as in, in D&D you get a ton of skill points to spend on skills) Sure they can be built as assassins, but assassin is a separate prestige class for rogue, not his main role. The wiki even says that the rogue is a damage dealer focusing on stealth, speed and precision with some control options. Not an assassin that goes in for a quick kill.
Don't get me wrong, my main class is a rogue and I love playing one. But I agree with the people complaining that a rogue CAN do too much damage. I say CAN because a rogue only does so if he catches the enemy off-guard. Imo, our burst needs to be toned down a little bit. But if done so, our bugs need to be fixed as well. Like people sometimes still seeing us in stealth, or multiple duelist's flurry bleeds not stacking, or the bleed stacks doing either very little or too much damage.
In other words, a rogue's spike damage needs to be lowered a little bit, but at the same time our skills need to be fixed. So we end up with less burst damage, but also less erratic sustained damage.
So basically you want rogues to become like GWF's are atm but without the stunlock and auto target/AoE abilities? Oh joy, CW's would just love that. They'd be able to out-DPS TR's AND do so from great distance lmao.
Burst damage is all that a rogue has mate, you are talking about toning down the only thing that rogues excel in. Might aswell delete your rogue and roll any other class if they change that.
From a purely in-universe, "fluff" perspective I just can't wrap my mind around the idea that a thief should have better sustained damage than burst. I mean, he's not a knight. The real problem here is that the rogue is the only single-target DPS in the game, and that means they basically gave him the best of both worlds and can't really change it because PvE would be a mess.
And therein lies a real problem here - half the things people complain about what rogues do in PvP is entirely necessary for the class in PvE.
Ahm, sorry, but you are wrong. The burst at-will/encounter/daily damage of the rogue comes from abilities with an high cooldown and an quite slow animation, mean it can be easlily avoided if you are not afk or controlled.
As a rogue myself, I find the easiest target ... other rogues. Because their powers can so easily dodged and require some time to recover. They also have only few CC powers and only one of them (dazing strikes) actually deals damage).
In addition, there are onyl 2 burst encounter powers, which are dazing strike and lashing blade. Even if both hit and crit, an target rarely dies at full health at same level/equip.
Imho, the encounter burst damage of a rogue is too low/cooldown time is to high compared to other classes, which can stunlock you (GF, GWF), or controll you to death (CW).
I do agree with your stealth tought. Looks like this game made a decent approach on stealth and have it balanced, and you got to know how to use it. I like it.
But armor doesnt add nothing on this game, how different is the damage you do to a gwf compared to a mage? Im not discussing clerics or gfs, cause their protection comes from their skills. Theres even topics debating how bad an armored class have it when you stack enough armor penetration compared to a lightly armored one.
About group pvp, theres nothing much to say, its broken as its finest at this moment. Being crit for 14k at level 40 by a gf, getting a dot with 2k tick by an invincible cleric or the famous glory farmers dance contest at the campfire respawn point, yeah, good times.
Im trying to not be biased here, just to improve the game. I play a gwf; my class is hands down the worst of all 5 atm, but even we can stunlock people for 80/90% of their hp once in a blue moon, this is not fair. Its not fair either for a melee assassin/agility based guy to kill me from distance throwing what, knives? while still being able to be stealth and having silence, slow, a blink spell and aoe (even a mediocre one)
Im ok with your melee damage, but theres just too much stuff available for a single class, its like a rifle shooting missiles with a chainsaw bayonet.
Yet here is yet another idiot who is useless unless he is OP so he comes to the forums to call people names all because he is afraid they will actually have to learn how to play, and not use an OP class as a crutch.
I believe smoke bomb needs its cool down increased and yes you would THINK that someday a game will come out and NOT have any <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> stealth class.
CW's are almost impossible to kill if they know how 2 time their tele until impossible to catch runs out...
i got knocked back so many times by the guardian fighter... i cant even get close... while he depletes my health slowly..
if anything rogues need a bloody buff
seriously at 60 rogues are like so average...
You can walk out of smokebomb though. Smokebomb becomes cheesy when you're up against a premade with two clerics AS stacking and two TRs timing their smokebombs.
Smoke is only OP when you decide to sit in it. And this is usually the case with inexperienced players, same as when they're dazed. They just stand there taking it, and then come to the boards whining how they got mauled by such an OP class.
W, A, S or D people, it will save your life when dazed.