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SERIOUS Mob Problem Folks!
avalean
Member Posts: 35 Arc User
OK, I did the measurements, I built the Map, I set the story line, then discovered that you only get 50 "FIFTY!" encounters? What is with that, the map if you actually use any of the rooms and details covers 2000 square feet of space. Put 50 encounters in that area and it simply looks empty. Players would have to walk 5 minutes between encounters on an average alone.
Folks you need a Minimum, MINIMUM; of 90 to 100 encounters to work with an area that big and to make it seem populated to any extent as a viable ecosystem and structure.
My current project is at a total stand still due to this.
The ONLY other way to fix the space verses map problem at this point is to either put in a minimum of 100 encounters "Does not count the numbers of mobs in each encounter", OR, to make dual way map transitions so it looks fluid allowing players to move from one map to another and back to the first one with out the requirement of the map transition being in the story line.
So I wonder which would be the fastest and less time consuming way to accomplish this?
I would really like to get part 4 off the ground and published but under the current 50 mob cap it would make the entire crypt area seem, well empty of any undead or other mobs at all. And take the players into a walk of virtual empty oblivion to reach each set of boss mobs, in short this is a game killer for any well formulated and structured LARGE scale Foundry map folks.
Right now even with a 100 mob count I would not be able to set up an optional solo or group play trigger and fill the space so it looked realistic and not well, so EMPTY.
PLEASE; PLEASE; PLEASE Fix this ASAP, by simply allowing the use of up to 100 encounter per map. I would prefer the Dual Transition map option instead but I think that would require more work in production hours than the other fix would.
Avalean@Avaleean
Folks you need a Minimum, MINIMUM; of 90 to 100 encounters to work with an area that big and to make it seem populated to any extent as a viable ecosystem and structure.
My current project is at a total stand still due to this.
The ONLY other way to fix the space verses map problem at this point is to either put in a minimum of 100 encounters "Does not count the numbers of mobs in each encounter", OR, to make dual way map transitions so it looks fluid allowing players to move from one map to another and back to the first one with out the requirement of the map transition being in the story line.
So I wonder which would be the fastest and less time consuming way to accomplish this?
I would really like to get part 4 off the ground and published but under the current 50 mob cap it would make the entire crypt area seem, well empty of any undead or other mobs at all. And take the players into a walk of virtual empty oblivion to reach each set of boss mobs, in short this is a game killer for any well formulated and structured LARGE scale Foundry map folks.
Right now even with a 100 mob count I would not be able to set up an optional solo or group play trigger and fill the space so it looked realistic and not well, so EMPTY.
PLEASE; PLEASE; PLEASE Fix this ASAP, by simply allowing the use of up to 100 encounter per map. I would prefer the Dual Transition map option instead but I think that would require more work in production hours than the other fix would.
Avalean@Avaleean
Post edited by avalean on
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first of, 50 encounters does not mean 50 mobs. An Encounter contains 1 to 4 or 5 mobs.
Second, Try to not stack encounters, you should position encounters after each other with at least their aggro range between them. (except you want to do a group foundry).
After this, if you still need 50+ encounters i would suggest duplicating your map N times and add a loadingscreen between the different parts of the map.
Also if you run out of encounters for your map before you run out of "details" i think you doing something wrong.
Just my thought from a foundry **** aswell
Phil
First, I am not over stacking mobs all are well out of 20 feet range of each set easy, some 40 even 80 feet apart.
Second, Have you EVER used the full capacity of just a single map? Do you realize just how much unused space is on a single room area alone? maybe I just see things a bit differently or perhaps "Puffed up head" I am the first to use the full potential of the provided material, either way the facts are facts. If you use the full available space on just a single given map you can have well over 5000 square feet of space to populate. If given the right amount of encounters and NPCs you could make a doable free flowing scenario that dose not require forced one way map transitions, and due to not requiring the need of multiple duplicated maps it even saves data space and packet flow to boot.
Third, the entire, I repeat "Entire" object of this project was to provide a free movement scenario where players could as in a REAL D&D Scenario come and go to anywhere in the quest at their leisure, pace, and desire and not get blocked from returning to a location WHEN THEY WANTED TOO; with out having it locked into a linear story where once you leave one building or room to have to transition to a different map then you can not go back to that building or room with out it having to be placed into the story line forcing the player to follow a set path.
Instead it was to allow the player"s" to come and go at will anywhere in the region with out being forced to follow a set story path to move form one region to another. YES, there is a story line to follow and complete but you are not forced to have to make one way map transitions by accomplishing those objectives.
So, again I state from experience, that IF a person uses the full space and content in a single map region to allow for full freedom of movement by the players, they need to either raise the mob encounters up to 100 OR provide for dual way map transitions like you have with portals.
To place the proof in the pudding as it were, I have placed Just the BASIC map for part 4 to be available for any to go and see for themselves. Go run it, explore, then tell me even when I have mobs over 80 feet apart you will not need more encounters just to occupy a single well constructed map region. Heck so far i think there is only like 10 rooms in the entire map so far, I do not count the Lichs room as no mass encounters are to happen there until part 8.
Of course once again I state, "IF the map is used to its fullest potential". And remember the objective is NO forced one way map transitions.
Part 4 "The Lich Lord"
NW-DNJGGTTIB
So before you make any more such comments please go look at the construction, THEN you will see for yourself Oh and I still have close to 300 details left to use just for cosmetics.
Avalean@avaleean
I personally see much more potential than that here, but we need to be given the resources to accomplish that objective. Part 4 is in total beta it has only 1 room fully flushed out with encounters and just as a minimum that took 11 slots to do. so a minimum of 11 encounters for one room, 10 rooms being used that is what 110 encounters? And no over stacking, even with those numbers I would not be able to fully flush out and populate properly as is, let alone formulate for a group trigger option.
Part 4 "The Lich Lord"
NW-DNJGGTTIB
by Avaleean
A short solo hack-n-slash: The Dirty Dwarf
As I Said currently only using 10 rooms to do this, Just using the full potential of those rooms is all.
And why say it is too big when they give you a 2000 square foot map area and 50 rooms per map? Nope even by their provided standards 50 mobs is only 1 mob per room and so you say 10 rooms is too big of a map?
Edit: P.S. I can bish about the detail resource limit all day ;_; 1500 is not enough.
I am on Mindflayer just ask for Avalean or Suemunlee in foundry chat I will see it.
See, here is the thing a lot of you guys don't seem to grasp. A great, big, open exploration zone is awesome! IF, and only if, we have a sense of why we are there and what we are doing. Unfortunately, the common theme I am seeing in these maps is throw a bunch of big empty rooms, make them hard to navigate, hide the elements that are important to the story, and wish the players luck. NO ONE WANTS THAT! Not even fans of exploration. We want a well designed large map, with one clear path, or at least a clear idea of what to do, and then we want a captivating large area to see what else there is.
Want to see a large map put to good use for exploration that has a good balance of mobs with good consistency, great looking environments and allows for lots of exploration?! Look at From Whence the Thunder Comes by @ellindar. HUGE map with lots of baddies to fight, evenly spaced so as to not be boring, with other things to do aside from fighting.
Another thing you can do, is instead of whining that the system has these limitations, work within those limitations. Yeah, a large map split into sections may NOT give you that overall freedom you desire, however, if you work within this limitations, you will get four still quite large exploration areas that give a clear goal on what to do and have more mobs, details, decorations and everything else per map. Want to be able to go back to the other maps? No problem, go ahead and do so. Just make the copies and boom, your done. If, however, you DON'T want to work within those limitations and instead want to make giant rooms with nothing unique, creative or even discerning about them, not take into consideration the positives of splitting it into multiple maps, such as more detailed environments, more encounters and more freedoms, then do not come and complain that you can't do what you want and no one wants to play it....
RIP - Dirty Politics May 21st, 2013 - July 30th, 2013
I ALSO Stated that there currently is not a set story line it is story boarded but not in place yet so later yes more mobs and directionals, which is already there, simply follow the glowing lights. but as for a set linear story line of go here to here to here then done nope not in place yet this is simply the structure because people said 50 encounters for 10 rooms was more than enough and would cause overflow stacking.
So if you wandered forever and never even found the one section populated by the 11 encounters in one of the 10 rooms, I guess my point is proven.
In closed beta, one of the very last Foundry updates made the budget what you see today. The budget was very sharply cut, and caused at least one highly visible person [hint: he wrote the Foundry manual that's stickied] to publicly quit. The budget cut uproar caused an extensive explanation of why they did it directly from the devs and chock full of technical details, so the likelihood of it getting changed any time soon is close to zero.
In short, you need to rework your map to fit what the Foundry will do.