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Really tired (PvE wise)
canibaloler
Member Posts: 9 Arc User
yeah im really tired of :
1. taking aggro instantly when adds spawn with no reason
2. trying to heal others and myself while kitting adds
3. boss aggro stealing from GF
4. tanking both boss and adds
5. trying to target others when they stuck all together
6. all above ^^ while trying to avoid the red marks on the ground
7. get flamed in every wipe
8. being the only one that gets flamed
9. having hard times when all others just DPSing or (pretending they) tanking.
10. The Benny Hill Show in almost all boss fights.
(YES im using Soothe as passive but i think its just a waste of 3 points)
Suggestions:
1. Give GWF-CW-TR the ability to generate high aggro when AoE adds or
2. Give us plate armor (!)
3. Spend some time redesign boss fights - AI instead of this ridiculous adds spawning.
And no.. i dont want to just sit in the back of the line and heal. I like Cleric's mechanics as it is..
It Just a litle bit more complex considering the rest classes role in a party.
1. taking aggro instantly when adds spawn with no reason
2. trying to heal others and myself while kitting adds
3. boss aggro stealing from GF
4. tanking both boss and adds
5. trying to target others when they stuck all together
6. all above ^^ while trying to avoid the red marks on the ground
7. get flamed in every wipe
8. being the only one that gets flamed
9. having hard times when all others just DPSing or (pretending they) tanking.
10. The Benny Hill Show in almost all boss fights.
(YES im using Soothe as passive but i think its just a waste of 3 points)
Suggestions:
1. Give GWF-CW-TR the ability to generate high aggro when AoE adds or
2. Give us plate armor (!)
3. Spend some time redesign boss fights - AI instead of this ridiculous adds spawning.
And no.. i dont want to just sit in the back of the line and heal. I like Cleric's mechanics as it is..
It Just a litle bit more complex considering the rest classes role in a party.
Post edited by canibaloler on
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Comments
My cleric would love that.
...
What?
Most of em' are awful, some of em are decent, and a few are pretty good."
if we are supposed to kite always they should at least:
-reduce the cost of a dash then we can really kite because sometimes you have no other choice than get all the dmg in your face cause everywhere you turn your head there is a red circle you are just surrounded with aoes
-lets us <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> moves with most of the heal spells
-reduce the cost of spells with the divinity mode, and take off this stupid slow when you heal people
Even when a groups says keep the adds off the cleric.... For example in Epic Frozen I am happy to kite the big adds but its the archers that get me because I can't stop and dps them down because the larger mobs will get me.... even after telling the CW's please kill the archers when they spawn nope... got to dps the boss down... oh hang on there is like loads of archers now each hitting me for 1500+ while I run around trying to avoid the trolls.....
sorry rant off.... just getting tired of PUGs and can't find a decent guild that plays when I play
I view this as hit and miss, and I've tested it with the same group in the same instances. We ran when I had done this, and ran again without this to test the idea.
Definitely not foolproof. In some instances it seemed to make no difference at all. To me it's insignificant (down to zero), in relation to the actions of the group.
Therefore you are entirely down to the willingness, or otherwise, of the group to get these adds off you. I've had situations where I've been surrounded by adds attacking me. The dps are next to me attacking the adds - while I do nothing except use pots to stay alive - and you guessed it, the adds are ignoring these dps and still attacking me. Now that's what I call threat.....
"Mod 6. Oh my f****** god. It gutted the game pure and simple. And what wasn't gutted was messed up by the poorly thought out new level cap and equip. The game never recovered from that atrocity".
..............not this one then.............
Full tank cleric since I have to tank everything anyway.
You could design a bot to do my job (for the most part atleast).
Astral Shield on cooldown, sunburst on cooldown, hallowed ground on cooldown (err full ap), Astral Seal whenever, run around in circles, and dodge if too many red circles pop up.
Pretty much it. Makes me miss classic MMO Healing. =/
I'll take whack-a-mole healing with actual fun boss fights over this anyday.
If I could actually use different at wills, encounters and feat builds and be just as effective it wouldn't be so bad, but bleh. Tired of mandatory OP <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> like Astral Shield, and having to tank.
"Mod 6. Oh my f****** god. It gutted the game pure and simple. And what wasn't gutted was messed up by the poorly thought out new level cap and equip. The game never recovered from that atrocity".
..............not this one then.............
...you know, to fix this problem. *cough*
Most of em' are awful, some of em are decent, and a few are pretty good."
That is a good point you make. A good group is really important especially a CW who knows what they are doing. But still the agro is, at times, to much to handle. I am tired of playing ring-around-the-mob/red-circle.
Thing is it's not really that big of a deal.
I just end up tanking everything, and can...
So what does it matter? TBH I wish Astral Shield would just... die, then rebalance us around that.
Edited above post. See comments
2.if it's an add kite fight like frozen heart, get the dps to kill archers and ****. If not then get your cw to cc more so you don't have to kite.
3.boss aggro should be on the TR
4.^^
5.use aoe heals (forgemaster's/astral shield/sunburst)
6.It can get crazy at time
7.You get some mean groups then lol
8.^
9. Dpsing can be easy if you're at a low skill level (where you just auto and stuff), but it's a lot of work if they actually try to min max their damage.
10.The only one I've had to do that in is frozen heart :P.
IMO don't take sooth, you won't need it if your other group members are competent. It just lowers your tanking ability.
I agree that the add spawning in bosses is quite over the top.
Dragon Guild
Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
good one
I want this class in NW.
1. Adds spawn, bee-line to you.
2. You kite the adds through the CW and/or GWF.
3. If they don't dps the adds, you take everything on the melee. The CW/GWF should see a big bunch of mobs around the boss and start AoEing to do "mad deeps". This should peel off you
4. If they still focus on the boss, stop healing/kiting and just wipe.
5. At the campsite, explain the need to dps the adds.
You are golden for the rest of the instance.
Bonus points if you actually manage to keep the adds around the CW long enough to make his life miserable. It improves the chances that he will do something about them.
Stealthed clerics lol
I don't find this healing to be all that fun. It's really just annoying and stressful.
If the mechanics require me to harass the DPS into protecting me, is there is a problem? As far as game design is concerned, correct game play should be salient for all players. Which is to say, is the problem with 100% of the pug DPS I've played with, or is the problem with the mechanic/design? It's impossible for me to account for all the individual differences between the players I've grouped with, but they share a common environment - the game. Thus, I chalk it up to design, not player ignorance. People can act a bit superior and just say, "learn to play" and what have you, but there is a relatively big flaw if failure rates are so high.
I'm not saying the game is impossible, I'm just saying the current build isn't fun to me. Too much work, not enough play.
I totally agree.
Maybe the devs have assumed, that constant failures/wipes would force players to adjust to the roles designed for their class (CW - controlling ads, GWF - dpsing ads etc.).
Problem is, that an average person will try to blame everything but not one's own playstyle. And who is the easiest to blame? The "<font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> cleric who has to learn to play/heal/survive/(put any other bull**** you've heard)".
All we can do is try to explain our capabilities and needs to the reasonable team mates and ignore the rest. If after 30 minutes you see that no one gives a **** about swarm of ads chasing you, leave them alone. There is absolutely no reason to suffer another 30 minutes of irritation, frustration, using tons of valuable potions, just to realize that with such attitude there is absolutely no chance to beat the final opponent. Spare yourself the trouble.
PS. What build do you have?
It is player ignorance. Im not trying to be an *** or whatever but that simple is the issue, and not necessarily on just the dps. Part of this ignorance is the fact that clerics don't understand either. Drop your AS, Toss up FF. Stand in circle. Repeat. As long as you are not also in the red mob aoe, then it matters not. Nothing can kill you. Stand there and whack the mobs. If people spent less time running from stuff that cannot hurt them and just do some damage (also fills your meter so you can drop you heals again) there would be way less issues.
I will say this again. I have commented on tons of posts all making these same claims. Check out deistic or Unspecifieds posts on clerics. We are battle clerics. We are not just the typical stand there and toss a heal every now and then. We belong in the middle of the pack with the group and the mobs. If people expect this and build for it there are very few issues. I have run all t1's and all but 1 t2 and had 0 issues. I repeat 0. In fact, in the cases where you have two clerics (a lot of times this is the wanted group makeup...ie 2 clerics, 2 tr's, and a cw) its nap time. Nothing can even begin to hurt any member in anyway with 2 clerics built and played correctly.
Yer, I disagree with this.
I'm pretty sure neither Unspec or Deis have given the advice, just stand there and tank everything. AS will not keep you alive vs a swarm of T2 mobs if you just stand there. No way in hell. You move, alot. Most adds fall into one of two types, the fast moving weak hitting mobs that you can do little about, but are pretty much ignorable. Then theres the slow attacking mobs that have long swing timers but hit like trucks. Move a couple of feet, cast, move a couple of feet, cast will render these mobs trivial since you've always moved away from thier swing. Standing still and trying to face tank everything generally does not go well.
I gear Defense, so I'm pretty tankey (2800 Def) but no way I am gonna just stand there and take it. Now if you have 2 DC and are double ASin everything, thats different. Solo healing T2's though, even with a Defense build, still requires that you avoid the hard hitting attacks. Learning what red splats to avoid is also an important tip. Some can just be ignored as they do little to no dmg in AS. Some are nice to avoid because they do hurt or slow or some other effect. Some really must be avoided since they are high damage or stuns etc (you dont wanna be stunned with a dozen T2 mobs out for your blood) Saving your slide for splats that must be avoided is a learned skill, once you learn the splats, life becomes a ton easier.
Again, I disagree with trying to face tank everything unless your 2DCin a run or have very good CW's, in which case your not really tanking everything as the CW will keep <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> off you most of the time. Alot of pugs (yer I pug on my cleric, Rogue and GF run statics) pretty much ignore the cleric and the mobs on him/her ... just gotta get used to that and adapt, gear def, learn the splats, move alot (Try and stay in AS tho!)
No meaningful customization of spec or skills, have to use the same overpowered skills or die.
Play as a tank not as a healer, 99% of all our healing just passive, let everyone fill up over time while we run in circles tanking everything.
OR assuming you have a good CW and everything is either knocked off cliffs or cc'd for a long time, you have nothing to do then and you're even MORE bored.
This on top of the fact that there's no interesting boss fights, 80% of the group doesn't even fight the boss, we just "fight" trash the entire dungeon. Seriously think about it, how fun is that? I could go into a foundry with 50 ogres/hulks (that moved faster) and "try to survive" and it'd be hardly different than running a dungeon.
There's something very wrong with that.
Here's a big glaring issue with any game when focusing on design.
If a player must use a specific load out for all dungeons, it means one of two things.
1. The load out in question is over-powered.
2. The load out in question is the only functional one.
Two out of three of my abilities are required (AS/FF). Further, can you imagine healing without AS? What's the point of having all these skills if it really just revolves around those two abilities (AS/FF).
Like I said before, if this is how the game is going to continue to work, I won't be playing much at all. It was fun soloing and doing DPS, but healing is too much of a chore. Can you honestly say that the exact same mechanic on every single boss (spawn 1 million adds) stays interesting? It's not very rewarding gameplay to me. Perhaps some people out there LOVE the way healing works in this game but I've never heard from them. I hear people say, "It's fine," but that just means acceptable. Would it be so bad for it to be fun and enjoyable?
That's the bottom line. Is it fun to play the game with your character? For me, it isn't at this current time.
Anyway Clerics are fun in Boss fights.
To be honest I think you cornered yourself.
First of all, deistik and unsecified present two totally different approach to healing. It's unspecified who is so much after the tanky build, deistik created crit-build. Take a look here to read that he respecced for DR until Righteousness is fixed. IMO, he doesn't seem satisfied with current cleric concept (whatever you call it).
Second, none of them EVER wrote 'if you cast AS/FF and move away from the circles nothing will kill you and if it did, it means you absolutely suck' but it's only you, who tries to put it in their mouth. Please take a while and go take a look at the Control Wizard section in the new guide by unspecified.
Third, you forget to mention all the CC effects that swarm of mobs may put on a cleric simultanously. Add a boss aggroed on a cleric due to incompetent tank. Imagine being constantly stunned, knocked down and thrown straight under boss hit. This is what sometimes happens in PUG. Yesterday I had a skirmish with a tank that was hiding behind my back and waiting fo me to enter the combat! Sum it up with really bad DPS CW who overpulled and one afker. I'm really sorry to inform you that all your precious piece of advise 'AS/FF' (+mine feated HG) could not save my sexy ***.
Fourth, if you had ever paid any attention to my posts before calling me an ignorant stative 'go-back-to-WoW-kid', you would know that I play the reg/def build and that I came here after a few years playing Age of Conan, Guild Wars 2 and RaiderZ. But the fact that I learned my lesson and I had no problem adapting doesn't mean I will make up for the lack of adaptation in the random PUGs I get in. Or that I'm allowed to treat people like total <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> because they don't like to play tanky healer and would like to have an alternative. Please bear in mind that people tend to credit their capabilities in case of success, but the external conditions in case of fail. It doesn't make convincing the random party mates to change their strategy any easier.
Most of the time everything goes smoothly, but my own attitude doesn't give me the guarantee for a success. In some cases it's a matter of 1 chaos/wipe to work out a plan and get over. In others, all you can do is leaving before wasting more time and cash.
I assume the last case is discussed here. Some people here are unlucky to encounter it more often than me or you, some don't know when to give up and let the frustration grow and destroy their game experience. Problem was created mainly due to design flaws and the fact that overcoming it demands cooperation from the whole party makes it sometimes impossible to resolve. Aggro management forces to use only one 'appropriate' setup which everyone must adapt to, but expecting all people to be happy about it is... surprising.
100% agreed. Im getting bored too. It's high time I rerolled.
You hit the nail on the head.
Only difference is instead of crying and freaking out we're yawning and waiting for it to be over.
No one ever said you were a wowboy. Either way I guess it doesent matter. People don't want to do any research, or read any help posts. Im done trying to point people in the correct direction, hell im even tired of caring. Im going back to the game to continue to have no problems. Have fun failing every run then crying about it.
Peace!
BTW my favorite part of the wall of text is "Problem was created mainly due to design flaws and the fact that overcoming it demands cooperation from the whole party makes it sometimes impossible to resolve"
LOL that's hilarious. Yes dungeons require cooperation from the whole party. That's why its a party.
Sounds to me like your really just looking for a solo game. In mmo's you are gonna be required to cooperate with a group if you wanna run end game content. In any game, not just NW (easies mmo endgame of any mmo ive played)
My last 2 cents. Ill let yall get back to the fun. Im going back to the game. Have fun playing everyone. See yall out there!