I have to totally agree with OP here. I could feel related to each point he stated. I was having fun while leveling but as soon as i got to end game the party crashed. Found myself just running around drinking pots until the boss was gone. I might be a old school kind of adventurer but this for me doesn't feel epic nor entertaining. So I shelved my Cleric at 10k gs and started a CW. That's when I came to the conclusion that all my problems as a DC was due to a faulty CC. All my dungeons while leveling were a breeze for the cleric and the group because I was fulfilling my role. But then I got to end game and couldn't complete a dungeon in hours due to lack of clerics. (Why would that be I ask...) Groups with 4 TR and me or full on CW but no cleric. So I shelved NWO and started downloading DPO (Which i won't be playing that long I'm sure... Melee cloth healer...).
I might be a bit of a purist but I like my healers ranged so I can see the whole fight. And for some of you saying that this is a cleric that goes into the battle you are mistaking it with the COMBAT Cleric. This is a DEVOTED Cleric. Two different things for the combat kind wields a shield and a mace/mornigstar and prefers melee combat, his devoted counterpart carries a magic mirror thingy and like his personal space.
I just find it a bit appalling but also laudable that line of thought were in order to succeed in the game we have to change the way certain role is played to the extent that such class is no longer recognized "Yeah I play the only healer class...but I just tank (kite) adds in bosses, The team can survive with pots...". But for those of you who manage to do it, kudos, more power to you.
Besides, If I wanted to efficiently tank I would've rolled a TR (Because don't get me started on poor GW's). I just want to heal from a safe zone and check how dps sits on red circles and such XD...
So I'm guessing I'll come back once they fix this broken trinity because I really really want more of this...But less of that...
P.s Oh And this being pve wise I'm guessing you are not much of a pvp fan, like me, so you are not aware of the bot infestation problem.
TLDR: I feel ya brah. Benny hill, everything. To play the only healer class you have to change into a tanking (kiting) class? No thanks. DEVOTED Cleric NOT COMBAT Cleric. Fix trinity.
I feel ur pain.. If ur in a pug and their not managing adds, then stop healing them and tell everyone that unless they manage the adds, then u cant do ur job and heal. A newly spawned mob will bee-line straight for u in a boss fight, but its really easy for the dps to get them off ur back if they focus. It comes down to self preservation - if im in a bad group and no one has my back for boss adds, well then, the heals come off my bar, and gets replaced by my dps skills.
hexanna22Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 204Bounty Hunter
edited June 2013
I agree with the OP.
I find it incredibly hard to be a healer in pugs with this game, and end up just soloing whatever I can.
And it's not just the endgame...The healing set up is not very kind to pugging, and new players.
I am 45, and if I have a good caster in group, all is golden, but the lack of one, or one that just focuses on DPS, easily makes newer players wipe.
I have 3 manned skirmishes with good casters, i have failed Dungeons/Skirmishes with 4 casters...
And, I do have a tanky type build, but if the group is overwhelmed, I can't step up to do too much because I only have so many spells I can use. ... Switching spells on the fly is too hard, we should at least have more slots that we can toggle on and off, so we can adjust to what is needed.
I just came from the Pirate King Dungeon, where people can't come back when they die, letting them die and respawn over and over while I kite and kill wasn't an option. I asked both casters to CC adds, we all said kill adds first. 40 potions later, and I had to give up, after waiting in Que for 45 mins....
Also, in pugs, it is 50/50 that anyone even brings pots, and trying to heal an individual when you are trying to dodge mobs and red circles, while they are jumping all over the place is just the worst. I have been playing healers in MMOs for about 10 years now, and this set up is the worst one I've used.
The problem to everything you mentioned stems from 3 things:
1) Pugs
2) terrible CWs
3) Pugs (seriously).
I have a video around here somewhere of Spider end boss where I don't even use a potion (solo cleric)... but that's because of my healing/defense and the fact that our CW is a beast.
7. get flamed in every wipe
8. being the only one that gets flamed
Suggestions:
I like Cleric's mechanics as it is..
It Just a little bit more complex considering the rest classes role in a party.
I agree. I've been called "the best evah!" and "You're stupid!" The funniest part was blaming me for lack of healing when I wasn't even loaded in the zone or the time where I barely did any healing and ran around in a circle drinking my pots and I got kudos acting like my EQ classic kiting Wizard. Cleric play here reminds me of the EQ classic Bard who mass-kites solo for fun going choo choo around the entire zone (your wrist hurts after and they think those kinds of MMO are "lazy"!?!).
Sorry but after a long, hard day at work and I play the game (loving my class, don't mind dying to learn a dungeon, trying to do homework on the class and the dungeons) I get these HAMSTER like you said. I guess it's too much to expect maturity from PUGs.
Deistik is right. We both need a **** guild who will treat people with respect. It's a game, we come on cause we love the challenge and have fun, not to be called names. Right now I'm having fun with low level characters duoing with my hubby even though I'd rather play my 10k+ DC and his GF.
I sympathize.
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hexanna22Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 204Bounty Hunter
I agree. I've been called "the best evah!" and "You're stupid!" The funniest part was blaming me for lack of healing when I wasn't even loaded in the zone or the time where I barely did any healing and ran around in a circle drinking my pots and I got kudos acting like my EQ classic kiting Wizard. Cleric play here reminds me of the EQ classic Bard who mass-kites solo for fun going choo choo around the entire zone (your wrist hurts after and they think those kinds of MMO are "lazy"!?!).
Sorry but after a long, hard day at work and I play the game (loving my class, don't mind dying to learn a dungeon, trying to do homework on the class and the dungeons) I get these HAMSTER like you said. I guess it's too much to expect maturity from PUGs.
Deistik is right. We both need a **** guild who will treat people with respect. It's a game, we come on cause we love the challenge and have fun, not to be called names. Right now I'm having fun with low level characters duoing with my hubby even though I'd rather play my 10k+ DC and his GF.
I sympathize.
At this point there seem to be so many Dbags, and bots, I am not even sure how newer players could meet a guild in game that is recruiting. Ironically the only one I met was in PVP, and I HATE PvP usually, but have found it quite fun here on my cleric.
A better Que system would help til one finds a guild.
I currently play another MMO where the leader puts up and LFM, it states the quest, and what classes they want, and everyone can see the class make up of the people already in the party. Zone LFG I have found to be really hit or miss, and the que systems always takes forever, and seems to group the lowest lvls allowed in the quests, often times without casters, and I think for many of these so far, they levels are off.
I love a challenge, I will fail over and over, but the mechanics of the way groups work here make it kinda hard, esp if you have a leader who kicks other people for no reason, and you find yourself with only 3 people halfway thru quest.
Tho I prefer solo, I do want to see all the dungeons, all the way til the end fight:)
It is player ignorance. Im not trying to be an *** or whatever but that simple is the issue, and not necessarily on just the dps. Part of this ignorance is the fact that clerics don't understand either. Drop your AS, Toss up FF. Stand in circle. Repeat. As long as you are not also in the red mob aoe, then it matters not. Nothing can kill you. Stand there and whack the mobs. If people spent less time running from stuff that cannot hurt them and just do some damage (also fills your meter so you can drop you heals again) there would be way less issues.
I will say this again. I have commented on tons of posts all making these same claims. Check out deistic or Unspecifieds posts on clerics. We are battle clerics. We are not just the typical stand there and toss a heal every now and then. We belong in the middle of the pack with the group and the mobs. If people expect this and build for it there are very few issues. I have run all t1's and all but 1 t2 and had 0 issues. I repeat 0. In fact, in the cases where you have two clerics (a lot of times this is the wanted group makeup...ie 2 clerics, 2 tr's, and a cw) its nap time. Nothing can even begin to hurt any member in anyway with 2 clerics built and played correctly.
you keep saying drop your AS AS this AS that you do not get AS until level 50 healing before this is just as crappy and to those who don't have time to rush their levels and play casual like i do getting to 50 can seem like a very long time.
I agree with the OP.
The mechanics just don't work and need fixing though, even when you tell people to get the adds they just carry on hitting the boss while you run around chugging pots, I mean is this what the devs class as fun and how it was intended really? I doubt, I just hope they do something about it soon.
Full tank cleric since I have to tank everything anyway.
You could design a bot to do my job (for the most part atleast).
Astral Shield on cooldown, sunburst on cooldown, hallowed ground on cooldown (err full ap), Astral Seal whenever, run around in circles, and dodge if too many red circles pop up.
Pretty much it. Makes me miss classic MMO Healing. =/
I'll take whack-a-mole healing with actual fun boss fights over this anyday.
If I could actually use different at wills, encounters and feat builds and be just as effective it wouldn't be so bad, but bleh. Tired of mandatory OP HAMSTER like Astral Shield, and having to tank.
There is no liek button, or I would have just liked your post. But yeah, I miss classic healing from playing this game as well. Tera did healing better with this style, I am not playing offtank/healer/kiter while everyone else facerolls full time like in this game.
At this point there seem to be so many Dbags, and bots, I am not even sure how newer players could meet a guild in game that is recruiting. Ironically the only one I met was in PVP, and I HATE PvP usually, but have found it quite fun here on my cleric.
A better Que system would help til one finds a guild.
I currently play another MMO where the leader puts up and LFM, it states the quest, and what classes they want, and everyone can see the class make up of the people already in the party. Zone LFG I have found to be really hit or miss, and the que systems always takes forever, and seems to group the lowest lvls allowed in the quests, often times without casters, and I think for many of these so far, they levels are off.
I love a challenge, I will fail over and over, but the mechanics of the way groups work here make it kinda hard, esp if you have a leader who kicks other people for no reason, and you find yourself with only 3 people halfway thru quest.
Tho I prefer solo, I do want to see all the dungeons, all the way til the end fight:)
The dungeon finder is f*cking HAMSTER in the worst way.
Putting me (a heal spec) cleric in a group with a mix of rogues and mages and no tank.
So fine, now I have to play the single tank/healer for a bunch of facerollers who will do nothing but scream at me? Seriously? So now, as the Cleric, I am expected to take the FULL BRUNT of ALL the mobs and then when DPS who have done nothing but faceroll decide to nerdrage after they die because I died, I can't even split the rage with a tank? It ALL falls on ONE person to be the responsible one? SERIOUSLY? No, I end up dropping group as soon as the queue pops when I see this happen. Only VERY rarely do I get the emense pleasure of having BOTH a GF and a GWF in group to help split the brunt of it up when I get grouped up from the dungeon finder.
New patch.. still no Cleric fix. I've stopped playing NW, and i urge other clerics to do the same and show your disapproval to this broken class, until they fix us. Too many nubs keeps repeating "Wait for AS".
New patch.. still no Cleric fix. I've stopped playing NW, and i urge other clerics to do the same and show your disapproval to this broken class, until they fix us. Too many nubs keeps repeating "Wait for AS".
I myself have rerolled a rogue. And now I can see how ridiculously OP this class is. My rogue is now level 40 and I faceroll everything. In dungeons, if no other rogue I am always the 1st dps, and my dps score is often the triple of the second one (usually CW or GF). This is nonsense. No adds care about me, though I am doing more dps than the addition of the rest of the entire party. WTF is that ? My cleric would get all the aggro for a simple Sunburst. This is broken.
I solo very easily, since I two shots most mobs. I can attack while being stealth and take no damage at all while smashing foes. My cleric was fun solo, but this rogue is so ****ing OP that it's not even close to funny.
My 60 10.5k GS cleric is useless for PVP, even with my Divinity oriented build, I can't gather enough divinity to be a threat when rogues and CW can kill everything with 2 buttons and less than 2 seconds. Whereas pvp is much funnier with my rogue even though I don't have execution yet, I can do something else than run and die. Not to mention that cleric has ONLY skillshots to DPS, and they are easy dodge.
Since my main is cleric, when I play dungeon as rogue, I try to protect the cleric by killing adds, because that's what I'd like people to do when I'm on my cleric. And that's the best I can do, because I will not play my cleric again unless the aggro **** get FIXED. That class is NO FUN at all. All about running and kiting, cast 1 heal and the entire area is after you. Even in PVP, you are the main target, but you don't even have to cast heals to be the #1 target. I know you gotta kill the healer when you play PVP, but what sort of balance is that when the healer get OS without even being able to heal himself or anyone else ?
FIX cleric ASAP and nerf stupid OP classes like TR and CW. My next roll will be a CW, not because I like being OP, but because I wanna realize by myself how much OP this class is. I bet it's even more OP than rogue in PVP, though it might be less OP in PVE.
This is how you deal with people not killing adds:
3. If they don't dps the adds, you take everything on the melee. The CW/GWF should see a big bunch of mobs around the boss and start AoEing to do "mad deeps". This should peel off you
I do this. I have another trick too. I drop my AS where I want DPS to be. The guys with 3 or more brain cells will move to it and hopefully see the pile of adds standing there with them. They might even attack said adds.
New patch.. still no Cleric fix. I've stopped playing NW, and i urge other clerics to do the same and show your disapproval to this broken class, until they fix us. Too many nubs keeps repeating "Wait for AS".
You can see this is already happening, there is a huge lack of clerics to pug at end game and /z is full of LF DC ANY GS!!!!!
Anyways, This is my second day without nwo.
I myself have rerolled a rogue. And now I can see how ridiculously OP this class is. My rogue is now level 40 and I faceroll everything. In dungeons, if no other rogue I am always the 1st dps, and my dps score is often the triple of the second one (usually CW or GF). This is nonsense. No adds care about me, though I am doing more dps than the addition of the rest of the entire party. WTF is that ? My cleric would get all the aggro for a simple Sunburst. This is broken.
I solo very easily, since I two shots most mobs. I can attack while being stealth and take no damage at all while smashing foes. My cleric was fun solo, but this rogue is so ****ing OP that it's not even close to funny.
My 60 10.5k GS cleric is useless for PVP, even with my Divinity oriented build, I can't gather enough divinity to be a threat when rogues and CW can kill everything with 2 buttons and less than 2 seconds. Whereas pvp is much funnier with my rogue even though I don't have execution yet, I can do something else than run and die. Not to mention that cleric has ONLY skillshots to DPS, and they are easy dodge.
Since my main is cleric, when I play dungeon as rogue, I try to protect the cleric by killing adds, because that's what I'd like people to do when I'm on my cleric. And that's the best I can do, because I will not play my cleric again unless the aggro **** get FIXED. That class is NO FUN at all. All about running and kiting, cast 1 heal and the entire area is after you. Even in PVP, you are the main target, but you don't even have to cast heals to be the #1 target. I know you gotta kill the healer when you play PVP, but what sort of balance is that when the healer get OS without even being able to heal himself or anyone else ?
FIX cleric ASAP and nerf stupid OP classes like TR and CW. My next roll will be a CW, not because I like being OP, but because I wanna realize by myself how much OP this class is. I bet it's even more OP than rogue in PVP, though it might be less OP in PVE.
Bait and Switch / Smokebomb .. both skills are great for protecting your cleric Vs trash.
I started with a GF, switched to a cleric (which I still Pug on) and now play a Rogue. So basically I pug on my DC and run pre-mades on my Rogue. My Wife plays a CW (Which I also hop on to run the occasional dungeon on) and after playing those 4 classes all with 11K+ GS in T2's I have a good knowledge of each classes abilitys. Clerics can be protected by any other class (although a CW does it best) Just a pity that most other players will load 3 DPS encounters and ignore the cleric totally, player failing not game.
GF and TR should be on boss with blue circle on them at all times.
Unless they're terrible, they don't need it. A rogue that's staying on the boss should either dodge things or use ItC. GF should just move or block. If one of those classes requested I put AS on them and not myself/add fighters, I'd tell them to go **** themselves.
Unless they're terrible, they don't need it. A rogue that's staying on the boss should either dodge things or use ItC. GF should just move or block. If one of those classes requested I put AS on them and not myself/add fighters, I'd tell them to go **** themselves.
So true.
During boss fights, I only AS on GF/TR/Boss when I'm able to remain in the circle along with them (easier with 2 clerics). Otherwise I save it for the player suffering the most damage and hatred from enemies...: CLERIC (me?) and the people trying to help me.
As said above, a GF or a TR should not suffer lethal damage while fighting boss and boss only, some dodges and pots and they're fine. Cleric has much more troubles.
Unless they're terrible, they don't need it. A rogue that's staying on the boss should either dodge things or use ItC. GF should just move or block. If one of those classes requested I put AS on them and not myself/add fighters, I'd tell them to go **** themselves.
Agree here. Rogue should need next to zero healing when on a boss. Hell the occasional ForgeMasters should be MORE than enough to keep a Rogue alive. My Rogue has a lifesteal of 1300 (10.2%) and that alone will keep me alive on any boss unless I derp and stand in bad.
As for GF, usually when on mine I default to cleric protection and let our CW DPS the boss between any Black Holes / Punts she needs to do. My ST DPS aint great yet I can keep a metric asston of damage off the cleric. I still charge over to tide the boss for debuff (For our rogue) but its not really my sole focus when on GF. If your running 2DC I can see putting GF on boss full time tho.
Bare in mind I dont run a DPS spec on my GF, more a hybrid spec with def and mitigation. A pure DPS GF on the boss makes more sense, since my fellow guildeys dont mind my GF not putting out 10 bazzilion dmg and appreciate me keeping HAMSTER off our healer, that works well for us.
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turlamMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
This is a fanboi attitude. There is no Ingenuity behind the mechanics. The bosses need AI and less adds. There needs to be more to a fight than cleric kite strategy. You cannot kill adds fast enough.
Lets take Frozen heart for instance. How you expect a group to manage all those adds and kill 3+ Golems while maintaining damage on the boss? you cant. By the time you kill one Golem, another is already spawned.
Lets perceive that we switch rolls. Let the GF tank and DPS the boss down and everyone else on Adds. TR is burning Golems and having to dodge 3+ golems Knockback/stun AoE? Not going to happen. These mobs are immune to CC and the TRs impossible to Catch ability would not be up long enough.
It is sadly more efficient to just have the Cleric kite the adds and all DPS on boss with the CW / GWF or GF destroying archers. This is no real strategy. A Cleric is a healer, not a defender of the party via tanking everything and healing themselves. The aspect of keeping the cleric alive has been stripped from the party and solely placed on the DC themselves.
Lets pretend this fight had an AI mechanic. To do so, I am going to propose a make shift strategy that currently does not exist but provides AI...
First you DPS the boss to specific % (Or implement a window of opportunity by time). Once the Boss is dwindled down to 80% (random high HP number) the party must then back off the boss, leaving the Tank to manage it and the healer spot healing them. The rest of the party falls back to a safe AoE distance and has to fight off a spawned mob.
Lets say its a beefed up version of a Golem. You DPS the Golem as fast as possible and have a time constraint. Since its an ice Golem, the frost giant would be gradually buffing this adds defenses over time. Requiring that you burn this add as fast as possible before it becomes impenetrable. Once to the impenetrable state the add would go berserk, casting full area of effect abilities that do minor damage but gradually increasing in damage over time. This negates the cleric kiting and places the importance of ONE single add control.
Lets pretend you did manage to burn this add down fast enough, now you go back onto the boss. But now the boss has a DPS check buff on him. If you are not putting out enough damage, the boss gradually becomes stronger as it realizes your defeat is inevitable to it. At which point you reach another time constraint or % mark, now the boss spawns a random add. This add can be either another Golem, 4 Archers, or a pack of Grunts. These would be randomly selected by the game based on a roll the mob does. so on and so forth the fight goes on....
You could even extend this fight to a point where the boss, when the adds are not up, spawns a random crystal in a random spot that slowly heals him. Meaning you must manage to destroy this crystal before spawning the adds. because if you did not, you would not have enough DPS out damage the heal and manage a berserking Golem. etc...
That in my mind is a unique fight and requires teamwork. meanwhile making any member of the team viable. Not just some cleric kiting, TR tanking, GWF running around in circles, and a CW constantly using singularity.
Comments
I might be a bit of a purist but I like my healers ranged so I can see the whole fight. And for some of you saying that this is a cleric that goes into the battle you are mistaking it with the COMBAT Cleric. This is a DEVOTED Cleric. Two different things for the combat kind wields a shield and a mace/mornigstar and prefers melee combat, his devoted counterpart carries a magic mirror thingy and like his personal space.
I just find it a bit appalling but also laudable that line of thought were in order to succeed in the game we have to change the way certain role is played to the extent that such class is no longer recognized "Yeah I play the only healer class...but I just tank (kite) adds in bosses, The team can survive with pots...". But for those of you who manage to do it, kudos, more power to you.
Besides, If I wanted to efficiently tank I would've rolled a TR (Because don't get me started on poor GW's). I just want to heal from a safe zone and check how dps sits on red circles and such XD...
So I'm guessing I'll come back once they fix this broken trinity because I really really want more of this...But less of that...
P.s Oh And this being pve wise I'm guessing you are not much of a pvp fan, like me, so you are not aware of the bot infestation problem.
TLDR: I feel ya brah. Benny hill, everything. To play the only healer class you have to change into a tanking (kiting) class? No thanks. DEVOTED Cleric NOT COMBAT Cleric. Fix trinity.
I find it incredibly hard to be a healer in pugs with this game, and end up just soloing whatever I can.
And it's not just the endgame...The healing set up is not very kind to pugging, and new players.
I am 45, and if I have a good caster in group, all is golden, but the lack of one, or one that just focuses on DPS, easily makes newer players wipe.
I have 3 manned skirmishes with good casters, i have failed Dungeons/Skirmishes with 4 casters...
And, I do have a tanky type build, but if the group is overwhelmed, I can't step up to do too much because I only have so many spells I can use. ... Switching spells on the fly is too hard, we should at least have more slots that we can toggle on and off, so we can adjust to what is needed.
I just came from the Pirate King Dungeon, where people can't come back when they die, letting them die and respawn over and over while I kite and kill wasn't an option. I asked both casters to CC adds, we all said kill adds first. 40 potions later, and I had to give up, after waiting in Que for 45 mins....
Also, in pugs, it is 50/50 that anyone even brings pots, and trying to heal an individual when you are trying to dodge mobs and red circles, while they are jumping all over the place is just the worst. I have been playing healers in MMOs for about 10 years now, and this set up is the worst one I've used.
1) Pugs
2) terrible CWs
3) Pugs (seriously).
I have a video around here somewhere of Spider end boss where I don't even use a potion (solo cleric)... but that's because of my healing/defense and the fact that our CW is a beast.
I agree. I've been called "the best evah!" and "You're stupid!" The funniest part was blaming me for lack of healing when I wasn't even loaded in the zone or the time where I barely did any healing and ran around in a circle drinking my pots and I got kudos acting like my EQ classic kiting Wizard. Cleric play here reminds me of the EQ classic Bard who mass-kites solo for fun going choo choo around the entire zone (your wrist hurts after and they think those kinds of MMO are "lazy"!?!).
Sorry but after a long, hard day at work and I play the game (loving my class, don't mind dying to learn a dungeon, trying to do homework on the class and the dungeons) I get these HAMSTER like you said. I guess it's too much to expect maturity from PUGs.
Deistik is right. We both need a **** guild who will treat people with respect. It's a game, we come on cause we love the challenge and have fun, not to be called names. Right now I'm having fun with low level characters duoing with my hubby even though I'd rather play my 10k+ DC and his GF.
I sympathize.
At this point there seem to be so many Dbags, and bots, I am not even sure how newer players could meet a guild in game that is recruiting. Ironically the only one I met was in PVP, and I HATE PvP usually, but have found it quite fun here on my cleric.
A better Que system would help til one finds a guild.
I currently play another MMO where the leader puts up and LFM, it states the quest, and what classes they want, and everyone can see the class make up of the people already in the party. Zone LFG I have found to be really hit or miss, and the que systems always takes forever, and seems to group the lowest lvls allowed in the quests, often times without casters, and I think for many of these so far, they levels are off.
I love a challenge, I will fail over and over, but the mechanics of the way groups work here make it kinda hard, esp if you have a leader who kicks other people for no reason, and you find yourself with only 3 people halfway thru quest.
Tho I prefer solo, I do want to see all the dungeons, all the way til the end fight:)
you keep saying drop your AS AS this AS that you do not get AS until level 50 healing before this is just as crappy and to those who don't have time to rush their levels and play casual like i do getting to 50 can seem like a very long time.
I agree with the OP.
The mechanics just don't work and need fixing though, even when you tell people to get the adds they just carry on hitting the boss while you run around chugging pots, I mean is this what the devs class as fun and how it was intended really? I doubt, I just hope they do something about it soon.
There is no liek button, or I would have just liked your post. But yeah, I miss classic healing from playing this game as well. Tera did healing better with this style, I am not playing offtank/healer/kiter while everyone else facerolls full time like in this game.
The dungeon finder is f*cking HAMSTER in the worst way.
Putting me (a heal spec) cleric in a group with a mix of rogues and mages and no tank.
So fine, now I have to play the single tank/healer for a bunch of facerollers who will do nothing but scream at me? Seriously? So now, as the Cleric, I am expected to take the FULL BRUNT of ALL the mobs and then when DPS who have done nothing but faceroll decide to nerdrage after they die because I died, I can't even split the rage with a tank? It ALL falls on ONE person to be the responsible one? SERIOUSLY? No, I end up dropping group as soon as the queue pops when I see this happen. Only VERY rarely do I get the emense pleasure of having BOTH a GF and a GWF in group to help split the brunt of it up when I get grouped up from the dungeon finder.
I myself have rerolled a rogue. And now I can see how ridiculously OP this class is. My rogue is now level 40 and I faceroll everything. In dungeons, if no other rogue I am always the 1st dps, and my dps score is often the triple of the second one (usually CW or GF). This is nonsense. No adds care about me, though I am doing more dps than the addition of the rest of the entire party. WTF is that ? My cleric would get all the aggro for a simple Sunburst. This is broken.
I solo very easily, since I two shots most mobs. I can attack while being stealth and take no damage at all while smashing foes. My cleric was fun solo, but this rogue is so ****ing OP that it's not even close to funny.
My 60 10.5k GS cleric is useless for PVP, even with my Divinity oriented build, I can't gather enough divinity to be a threat when rogues and CW can kill everything with 2 buttons and less than 2 seconds. Whereas pvp is much funnier with my rogue even though I don't have execution yet, I can do something else than run and die. Not to mention that cleric has ONLY skillshots to DPS, and they are easy dodge.
Since my main is cleric, when I play dungeon as rogue, I try to protect the cleric by killing adds, because that's what I'd like people to do when I'm on my cleric. And that's the best I can do, because I will not play my cleric again unless the aggro **** get FIXED. That class is NO FUN at all. All about running and kiting, cast 1 heal and the entire area is after you. Even in PVP, you are the main target, but you don't even have to cast heals to be the #1 target. I know you gotta kill the healer when you play PVP, but what sort of balance is that when the healer get OS without even being able to heal himself or anyone else ?
FIX cleric ASAP and nerf stupid OP classes like TR and CW. My next roll will be a CW, not because I like being OP, but because I wanna realize by myself how much OP this class is. I bet it's even more OP than rogue in PVP, though it might be less OP in PVE.
- DRAGON - ( Mehrea DC 13.1k ) - ( Volsung TR 11.7k )
I do this. I have another trick too. I drop my AS where I want DPS to be. The guys with 3 or more brain cells will move to it and hopefully see the pile of adds standing there with them. They might even attack said adds.
You can see this is already happening, there is a huge lack of clerics to pug at end game and /z is full of LF DC ANY GS!!!!!
Anyways, This is my second day without nwo.
Bait and Switch / Smokebomb .. both skills are great for protecting your cleric Vs trash.
I started with a GF, switched to a cleric (which I still Pug on) and now play a Rogue. So basically I pug on my DC and run pre-mades on my Rogue. My Wife plays a CW (Which I also hop on to run the occasional dungeon on) and after playing those 4 classes all with 11K+ GS in T2's I have a good knowledge of each classes abilitys. Clerics can be protected by any other class (although a CW does it best) Just a pity that most other players will load 3 DPS encounters and ignore the cleric totally, player failing not game.
Unless they're terrible, they don't need it. A rogue that's staying on the boss should either dodge things or use ItC. GF should just move or block. If one of those classes requested I put AS on them and not myself/add fighters, I'd tell them to go **** themselves.
So true.
During boss fights, I only AS on GF/TR/Boss when I'm able to remain in the circle along with them (easier with 2 clerics). Otherwise I save it for the player suffering the most damage and hatred from enemies...: CLERIC (me?) and the people trying to help me.
As said above, a GF or a TR should not suffer lethal damage while fighting boss and boss only, some dodges and pots and they're fine. Cleric has much more troubles.
- DRAGON - ( Mehrea DC 13.1k ) - ( Volsung TR 11.7k )
Agree here. Rogue should need next to zero healing when on a boss. Hell the occasional ForgeMasters should be MORE than enough to keep a Rogue alive. My Rogue has a lifesteal of 1300 (10.2%) and that alone will keep me alive on any boss unless I derp and stand in bad.
As for GF, usually when on mine I default to cleric protection and let our CW DPS the boss between any Black Holes / Punts she needs to do. My ST DPS aint great yet I can keep a metric asston of damage off the cleric. I still charge over to tide the boss for debuff (For our rogue) but its not really my sole focus when on GF. If your running 2DC I can see putting GF on boss full time tho.
Bare in mind I dont run a DPS spec on my GF, more a hybrid spec with def and mitigation. A pure DPS GF on the boss makes more sense, since my fellow guildeys dont mind my GF not putting out 10 bazzilion dmg and appreciate me keeping HAMSTER off our healer, that works well for us.
This is a fanboi attitude. There is no Ingenuity behind the mechanics. The bosses need AI and less adds. There needs to be more to a fight than cleric kite strategy. You cannot kill adds fast enough.
Lets take Frozen heart for instance. How you expect a group to manage all those adds and kill 3+ Golems while maintaining damage on the boss? you cant. By the time you kill one Golem, another is already spawned.
Lets perceive that we switch rolls. Let the GF tank and DPS the boss down and everyone else on Adds. TR is burning Golems and having to dodge 3+ golems Knockback/stun AoE? Not going to happen. These mobs are immune to CC and the TRs impossible to Catch ability would not be up long enough.
It is sadly more efficient to just have the Cleric kite the adds and all DPS on boss with the CW / GWF or GF destroying archers. This is no real strategy. A Cleric is a healer, not a defender of the party via tanking everything and healing themselves. The aspect of keeping the cleric alive has been stripped from the party and solely placed on the DC themselves.
Lets pretend this fight had an AI mechanic. To do so, I am going to propose a make shift strategy that currently does not exist but provides AI...
First you DPS the boss to specific % (Or implement a window of opportunity by time). Once the Boss is dwindled down to 80% (random high HP number) the party must then back off the boss, leaving the Tank to manage it and the healer spot healing them. The rest of the party falls back to a safe AoE distance and has to fight off a spawned mob.
Lets say its a beefed up version of a Golem. You DPS the Golem as fast as possible and have a time constraint. Since its an ice Golem, the frost giant would be gradually buffing this adds defenses over time. Requiring that you burn this add as fast as possible before it becomes impenetrable. Once to the impenetrable state the add would go berserk, casting full area of effect abilities that do minor damage but gradually increasing in damage over time. This negates the cleric kiting and places the importance of ONE single add control.
Lets pretend you did manage to burn this add down fast enough, now you go back onto the boss. But now the boss has a DPS check buff on him. If you are not putting out enough damage, the boss gradually becomes stronger as it realizes your defeat is inevitable to it. At which point you reach another time constraint or % mark, now the boss spawns a random add. This add can be either another Golem, 4 Archers, or a pack of Grunts. These would be randomly selected by the game based on a roll the mob does. so on and so forth the fight goes on....
You could even extend this fight to a point where the boss, when the adds are not up, spawns a random crystal in a random spot that slowly heals him. Meaning you must manage to destroy this crystal before spawning the adds. because if you did not, you would not have enough DPS out damage the heal and manage a berserking Golem. etc...
That in my mind is a unique fight and requires teamwork. meanwhile making any member of the team viable. Not just some cleric kiting, TR tanking, GWF running around in circles, and a CW constantly using singularity.