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Dungeons....and the beauty of the Queuing system
morpheas768
Member Posts: 0 Arc User
Basically, finding a good party to do an epic T2 dungeon is a real PAIN IN THE B*TT.
I've been trying for the last 2 hours, to find a party to start the Epic Temple of the Spider dungeon, getting a long head start way before the Dungeon Delves event begins, and so far I had 0 luck.
Luck, yes LUCK. Thats how you find dungeon parties for DD these days.
Why? Let me tell you why:
1. So far I've seen 1 cleric in more than 30 different parties I joined. Yes, thats true, NO exaggeration. And because of that, doing this dungeon without a cleric is a pure idiotic waste of time. Might as well afk at Protectors.
2. Bugs. BUGS BUGS BUGS. Join a party, only to see that its 3 TR and 1 GWF plus me (I am TR as well, unfortunately). You get out (or get kicked), and then when you re-queue to find another one, you cant get teleported to the instance, and cant leave party either. ARE YOU SERIOUS CRYPTIC? STILL HAVENT FIXED THAT?
3. The party leaders sometimes want to be the only class of their type, so they will insta-kick everyone of their class, just to not have items they can use contested, because the Need/Greed system is completely HAMSTER. So when the leader in a party is TR, I get insta-kicked, while they're trying to find other classes.
Oh and did I mention that 70% of players are TR in the game? Its true, NO exaggeration again.
4. And because the auto-matching system is completely HAMSTER, basically only having 1 criteria, which is that all players must have a Gear Score above XXXX (say 8300 for T2), it means that classes are irrelevant to the selection of players. Its just RANDOM people joining a party basically. WOW Cryptic, how did you write the code for this? Must be so complex. Didnt it ever occur to you that MAYBE, JUST MAYBE a party might actually NEED a cleric in order to complete a dungeon?
Take all these 3 reasons, combine them together, and you have a never-ending "Quest to start a Dungeon in Neverwinter" .
Honestly, say whatever you want, tell me Im whining and crying like a little baby, but this isnt the first time this happens. It happens every day, in every DD event, just sometimes I get luckier than others.
FIX the GOD **** queuing system Cryptic! I've had it already.
GG /end rant
I've been trying for the last 2 hours, to find a party to start the Epic Temple of the Spider dungeon, getting a long head start way before the Dungeon Delves event begins, and so far I had 0 luck.
Luck, yes LUCK. Thats how you find dungeon parties for DD these days.
Why? Let me tell you why:
1. So far I've seen 1 cleric in more than 30 different parties I joined. Yes, thats true, NO exaggeration. And because of that, doing this dungeon without a cleric is a pure idiotic waste of time. Might as well afk at Protectors.
2. Bugs. BUGS BUGS BUGS. Join a party, only to see that its 3 TR and 1 GWF plus me (I am TR as well, unfortunately). You get out (or get kicked), and then when you re-queue to find another one, you cant get teleported to the instance, and cant leave party either. ARE YOU SERIOUS CRYPTIC? STILL HAVENT FIXED THAT?
3. The party leaders sometimes want to be the only class of their type, so they will insta-kick everyone of their class, just to not have items they can use contested, because the Need/Greed system is completely HAMSTER. So when the leader in a party is TR, I get insta-kicked, while they're trying to find other classes.
Oh and did I mention that 70% of players are TR in the game? Its true, NO exaggeration again.
4. And because the auto-matching system is completely HAMSTER, basically only having 1 criteria, which is that all players must have a Gear Score above XXXX (say 8300 for T2), it means that classes are irrelevant to the selection of players. Its just RANDOM people joining a party basically. WOW Cryptic, how did you write the code for this? Must be so complex. Didnt it ever occur to you that MAYBE, JUST MAYBE a party might actually NEED a cleric in order to complete a dungeon?
Take all these 3 reasons, combine them together, and you have a never-ending "Quest to start a Dungeon in Neverwinter" .
Honestly, say whatever you want, tell me Im whining and crying like a little baby, but this isnt the first time this happens. It happens every day, in every DD event, just sometimes I get luckier than others.
FIX the GOD **** queuing system Cryptic! I've had it already.
GG /end rant
Post edited by morpheas768 on
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The groupfinder is idiotic and extremly gamebreaking for me.
I wait for DD to show up during my gamingtime on the evenings, only to get stuck in this stupid thing. 3 days now i havent been able to do the DD event.
Also its so bugged, if you get kicked before you load into the dungeon, you cant queue up again unless you zone to a different area. Then the next time, if you get in another group it wont teleport you to the instance, and you have to zone again to get "return to instance"
Sometimes it gets stuck even more, you queue up, but also gets return to instance, you return to instance and also get the popup to join a group, so you get stuck in an infinite loop becouse you cant join the group and cant leave the previous one.
These issues makes me wanna start banging my head against the wall.
I think I've had it with this game, they seem to fix 1 minor bug every week or so. I have no idea what they're doing when they receive all these bug reports and read the forums (if they read them at all).
I'll give it some more time, because the game actually has A LOT of potential and can be very fun to play at times, but after that I'll be moving on.
They fully released a completed game to the public, but labeled it as a "soft launch" in an state of "open beta." Unfortunately, once you start charging people real money and promising that everything players do now will be permanent, those players are far less understanding about bugs, exploits, and both partially implemented and poorly implemented features.
Companies need to learn not to half-release their game. Either release it to the public in a live format, or put it through a proper beta with actual testers, who's sole job is to find and report bugs (as opposed to quietly exploiting those bugs for profit, which is what is currently happening.)
-Travail.
And what's the point of having a queue system if you are supposed to find a group via chat? That is clearly not the way it was designed, otherwise they would have made an LFG channel. It's hard to even find anything between the spam of Trades and gold spam in Zone chat. Fix the queue, and make a separate trade channel. Just cuz you force people to use the AH to sell stuff for AD, doesnt mean that people arent still going to spam stuff to trade in chat. Zone chat is too convoluted, separate the trade spam and the LFG spam, and we might be able to actually read something in zone.
They need to improve it by A LOT. They need to let us invite people when we are standing before the last boss' room. It's a win-win for everyone: they get the whole dungeon cleared and basically just boss' loot and the party gets to finish the dungeon. We need a party system where the party leaders can put the queue up but people will APPLY and not AUTO-GET-IN the group. Then it's leader's call to actually decline or accept that person, after checking the class, the level. Steal it from other games, steal it from DDO where the party system is FANTASTIC. This whole "spam Zone chat to get the party that you want" is just HORRIBLE. The queue..let's not even talk about that, the OP has said enough.
Kicking a person AFTER they get in the group is just plain rude, even if necessary. We need to have the chance to decide before they get in the party, with the request system I suggested above.
Maybe it should just display the awful truth. "You are 1341 out of 1349 TR in the queue."
There's only so much you can reasonably expect a person to endure before they just leave.
Dungeons flat out suck as a cleric, and the other players on the team are sometimes almost as hostile as the monsters.
The queue is fine. Working as intended.
And you know why everyone picks TR?
Because 1. That opening cinematic where it showcases TR more than other classes (imo), and 2. Because TR's are OP. Who in their right mind would pick cleric who's the most boring character ever created, or GF who is underpowered and owned but nearly all other classes?
My point: No its not the players' fault, its the d.amn queuing system.
"The queue tries to build reasonable parties" - Nope it does not. The class selection is random. The matchmaking bot doesnt take classes into account, and I already said that in the O.P.
Thank you, now go troll somewhere else.
Instead, these decisions should happen with votes, more than half the party (3 of 5) and you are kicked, or something similar. Accepting or declining a new member in the party can also occur via voting, that way people wont abuse the system.
I'm attempting to explain that the queue is not broken. The issue is there is a glut of some classes, shortages of other classes; which translates into unbalanced parties being formed often times in a random queue.
Deal with it, quit, whatever.
If you read my post carefully, you'll see that I cleared explained the many issues with the queuing system, and some users who replied did the same thing.
As for the class party-balance, this is only 1 of the issues, and while it isnt a bug, its a huge missing feature that should be there from the start. Would you play an epic T2 dungeon with 5 rogues? No you wouldnt, because thats suicide and a waste of time.
I dont have time to go ahead and repeat myself over and over again, read my post, and stop trolling.
I definitely remember seeing rules about people resorting to throwing troll labels around on other users, especially when there is nothing even remotely resembling troll in a comment.
It's very irritating.
I swear this is one of the more hate filled, spiteful, ignorant forums I've ever seen.
and here my biggest grip
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?312691-Why-not-invite-your-guild-friends-too-a-group!
My understanding is that the system tries to put together a proper group and as that fails it eventually just puts together whatever it can find. The problem in the game is that their are WAY to many TR and CW and not nearly enough DC. (No GFs or GWFs but that isn't a problem at this point). If you want a "must be 1 DC per group" rule into place you will be on the forums complaining about how you miss the DD events because the queue never pops. If you want to make sure you get a group together then try creating one yourself outside of the queue system.
If the queue engine stops building parties without DC in them, queues are going to be several hours long during offpeak times.
I, for one, avoide the queue like the plague because it's nothing but 1 hour of pure misery for me.
Here's a thought: if there is an abundance of TRs and you can't get (functional) groups because of it, reroll.
I have a Healer Build and I love PvE (most of it)
And I have made a total of 41g so far charging group leaders for my services.
I've dinged 50 just a few minutes ago.
Most of em' are awful, some of em are decent, and a few are pretty good."
Guardian Fighter: No one in this country can ever pronounce my name right. It's not that hard: Guar-dee-an Figh-ter.
Trickster Rogue: Yeah, well, at least your name isn't Trickster Rogue.
Guardian Fighter: You know, there's nothing wrong with that name.
Trickster Rogue: There *was* nothing wrong with it... until I was about twelve years old and that no-talent [bleep] clown became famous and started winning Grammys.
Guardian Fighter: Hmm... well, why don't you just go by Divine Cleric instead of Trickster Rogue?
Trickster Rogue: No way! Why should I change? He's the one who sucks.
...
*twitch*
Devout... It's... *deep breath* *exhale* It's D-devout Cleric.
ITS DEVOUT!
Most of em' are awful, some of em are decent, and a few are pretty good."
No it is not. You shouldn't be allowed to screw 4 different person by just leaving. What happens if my house is on fire in the middle of the boss fight? What if my baby is crying and I MUST leave the dungeon?
This SHOULD NOT happen. EVER. We NEED the possibility to invite people mid-dungeon. Point. Again, 1 person should not be allowed to screw the whole party. Not after 40 minutes of dungeon.
Your attitude is the worst possible towards new players What happens when there is a new player in the party - me in this case - and noone explained him what his role is? Of course you are going to wipe. But you can and SHOULD try again. Plus, the 2nd try is either 1) a wipe again after 5 mins or 2) the successfull one. In the worst case scenario you wasted 5 more mins, in the best one you did it.
Because he is the party leader. If you get declined from a group upon request, you make your own or find another one. That's the beauty of the system. You can make your own, you can choose the classes you want, the level you want, the friends you want, the people you want because you can see their names/classes when they apply your party. No exploits. No abuse of the system. Also, and most important rule, NO KICK ALLOWED WHILE YOU ARE IN THE DUNGEON.
E.g.: You see a Lair of the mad dragon by me and another one by BlaBla? You have 3 options:
1) You apply to join to one of them. You can either be accepted and all is fine or declined. In that case try with the other party. If you get declined here too, then do 3)
2) You don't apply to shuy1's party because he is such a nubzor/elitist/gimp/dumb player or because your classes is not wanted in their group but you can apply to BlaBla's party because he is cool.
3) You make your own party with your own rules, your wanted classes, your wanted levels.
And he pointed out that while levelling it certainly does take it into account. I general GF queues are almost instant. DC queues are very fast. DPS classes have much longer queues. This indicates that it does try to matchmake classes: there is just a shortage of some of the classes needed. (The aforementioned player issue.)
Rather than keep people in the queue for several hours however, it looks like after a certain time, it will put together a group out of whatever it can. If the queue is made up of 60% TRs and no DCs or GFs, there is a very good chance that you'll get lots of TRs in the group.[/QUOTE]
Please try to stick to the forum rules when posting. If you weren't willing to abide by them, you shouldn't have agreed to them.
You can invite new ppl to dungeons if they have entrance in world.
Also if you dont get teleport to dungeon like others just use fast travel and after loading screen you get Return to instance button.
PS We(GF-me and TR-firend) already cleared some low lvl dungeons(wait before last boss) and sell spots in party during DD.
Only want some fast teleports inside dungeons, take too much time to get them to end from start. XD
They should also make the foundry capable of creating 5 man dungeons or skirmishes to help expand their content. That way players can create dungeons that dont require clerics, and dont spawn a million adds. They could incorporate a reward the same way they do dailies for astral diamonds. Like complete x number of foundry dungeons for a blue loot, or x number for a purple loot, or x number for a drake seal(s).
Groups need to be able to add people so they can complete the dungeon too, even if there is a large penalty for the newcomer. In DDO they get a huge xp penalty, however since dungeons are loot based, they would need to come up with a loot penalty so people dont abuse the system. During closed beta everyone complained about queing for a dungeon, then getting added to a group that was on the last fight. This took away the "experience" of the dungeon...so now you can't add people like that anymore. Its hard to make everyone happy I guess. Maybe dont give the newcomer the option of rolling on the loot that is dropped, so their only reward is the seals that the boss drops. Or the other way around. Something needs to be done though because I don't think I have ever actually finished an epic dungeon that was a pick up group with the exception of cloak tower. My only success comes with my regular guild group.
Mainly, the new person has to be at the physical entrance to the dungeon to enter, and has to run all the way from the start point to wherever the party is located. If there are stray ADDs and wandering monsters behind party, they may encounter those and have to try to solo them to get to party. Invite from anywhere and 'Jump to unlocked campfire' would be nice...It's a fairly often a rather large waste of time the way it is now.
Definitely, IMO, needs improvement; but there is a steady resistance in segments of the player base to anything that seems to make the game more convenient or efficient in any way. I have my opinions on that, but this thread isn't about that.
Not that at all. Most times, I'm accused of being a 'care bear' or 'babysitter' type...
I agree with you here 100%. Communication/teamwork is severely lacking in many random groups made by queues.
Words I'd love to hear at the start "Hi. This is my first run here, what's the plan..."
I'd be overjoyed if a new player in a PUG would listen, or even be interested, to any advice I had. For that matter, I'm happy if someone at least bothers to respond to my 'hello' at the start. Many times, pausing to type a message leaves you hundreds of clicks behind the lead sprinters, so...
Not saying it's you that's like that, just leading up to this:
There's just times you've had enough and just have to quit a party. I don't regret any of the times I have, and would do the same thing in the same circumstances again.
The person quitting a party isn't always the villain, by any stretch.
I could recount situations, but just use your imagination.
It obviously is abused sometimes.
Then, there are people sometimes that **** well need to be kicked from a party.
Either way is just about as irritating as the other...
Both are about equally PITA, and waste of time.
I have no fix ideas either. I can't think of an automatic rule that a group of players actively seeking to bypass, can't take advantage of. Especially a griefer, with no other goal than to make delves miserable for other people.
Not sure what the duration is, or even if it is a timer. Could be a progress point.
Anyway, there is some cut off that can no longer draw from the queue.