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Revisiting the Guardian issue. (about the block bug, not whining about threat)
vheraun
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 180 Bounty Hunter
So, remember that a few days ago the forums erupted with the reports of all five dedicated Guardian Fighters of Neverwinter about the blocking bug? Well, I think I have managed to pinpoint the issue.
First things first though.
-What is that blocking bug all about?
See, some time ago, we GFs realised that block wasn't working properly. When it was used in quick succession (like block, attack, block), the fighter would enter the blocking stance when Shift was pressed again, shield raised and all, able to use his At-Wills that are only available while blocking... The thing is, while doing all this stuff, he wouldn't block. Everything was in perfect order, except that damage went through our valiantly raised shields.
-Blah, blah. It's Beta, bug it.
While this may not seem like much, it ranges from a nuisance to a deadly flaw, depending on the fight. When a knockdown is enough to let everybody kill you easily, you don't want to be knocked down. As I said, there are hardly as many GFs as there are rogues, clerics and wizards, so this bug didn't get the publicity it deserved.
-What did the devs say?
First of all, I blame the devs in no way, they have enough to worry about as it is. It was said that this might be due to a "cooldown issue", meaning that the fighter should not be able to block so quickly after leaving the blocking stance.
-Sounds reasonable...
Well, it actually is. Only it doesn't work as intended. When blocking in this time frame we enter a pseudo-block that can only be aborted by letting go of Shift and pressing it again, losing valuable seconds and HP.
-What is your point anyway?
Glad you asked. After playing for a while, I noticed that this was not happening only when I was blocking previously. In fact, this happens if the Shift button is pressed while on the animation of the previous action. This could be either attacking, using a power or even leaving the defensive stance. So, the issue is quick pressing of Shift, before the previous animation ends. It remains an issue though, as I can't believe this false block was intended (pointing out again that we can even use At-Wills that are available only when blocking, yet we can't block). We just have the source of the problem.
-And what would you do about it?
It has been suggested that a GF should start blocking in the first second possible after Shift is pressed. That means, I attack, I press Shift meanwhile, and my character starts blocking (properly) once the attacking animation ends. This seems like the best fix for me, though I hardly know anything about coding for MMOs...
TL;DR: Nope, read the post.
First things first though.
-What is that blocking bug all about?
See, some time ago, we GFs realised that block wasn't working properly. When it was used in quick succession (like block, attack, block), the fighter would enter the blocking stance when Shift was pressed again, shield raised and all, able to use his At-Wills that are only available while blocking... The thing is, while doing all this stuff, he wouldn't block. Everything was in perfect order, except that damage went through our valiantly raised shields.
-Blah, blah. It's Beta, bug it.
While this may not seem like much, it ranges from a nuisance to a deadly flaw, depending on the fight. When a knockdown is enough to let everybody kill you easily, you don't want to be knocked down. As I said, there are hardly as many GFs as there are rogues, clerics and wizards, so this bug didn't get the publicity it deserved.
-What did the devs say?
First of all, I blame the devs in no way, they have enough to worry about as it is. It was said that this might be due to a "cooldown issue", meaning that the fighter should not be able to block so quickly after leaving the blocking stance.
-Sounds reasonable...
Well, it actually is. Only it doesn't work as intended. When blocking in this time frame we enter a pseudo-block that can only be aborted by letting go of Shift and pressing it again, losing valuable seconds and HP.
-What is your point anyway?
Glad you asked. After playing for a while, I noticed that this was not happening only when I was blocking previously. In fact, this happens if the Shift button is pressed while on the animation of the previous action. This could be either attacking, using a power or even leaving the defensive stance. So, the issue is quick pressing of Shift, before the previous animation ends. It remains an issue though, as I can't believe this false block was intended (pointing out again that we can even use At-Wills that are available only when blocking, yet we can't block). We just have the source of the problem.
-And what would you do about it?
It has been suggested that a GF should start blocking in the first second possible after Shift is pressed. That means, I attack, I press Shift meanwhile, and my character starts blocking (properly) once the attacking animation ends. This seems like the best fix for me, though I hardly know anything about coding for MMOs...
TL;DR: Nope, read the post.
Post edited by vheraun on
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Comments
I totally understan u mate...
You can play another class or quit the game for now, following patch notes untill you see its fixed.
No, sorry, I never said anything of the sort. I love my GF and I have no problems with him, I am not going to quit the game... It's just a bug that I want to see fixed ASAP.
I know someone who had a dog who'd lost a leg, he was a wonky lil terrier and he loved that dog. Still he didn't enter him into dog show's and have him run through obstacle courses and burning hoops. Nor was the dog part of a team in which it was depended upon for score and performance.
Be a good guy, drop your Guardian fighter til it's fixed, save yourself some hassle and stop gimping your groups.
Worry not, I enjoy playing him and I have helped every group I've been in so far.
...plus, burning hoops wouln't hinder a Tiefling.
Right now we can hold block and bring up the shield even in the middle of an attack. Which is how it should be working anyway since it is our core function. Our attack animations are so slow that if we had to wait for an attack animation to end before being able to block, it would cause way more problems. We already get animation lock and this would just add onto it making a crappy situation even worse.
It really shouldn`t matter how many times we hit block within a small amount of time, every time it`s hit it should function like the first time. I haven`t really noticed this bug myself. Perhaps it could be a latency issue? The slightest ping could explain why a function being onned and offed quickly and it not registering properly could appear to be a bug when the connection to the server just isn`t fast enough to register your keystrokes when they are that fast.
If it is indeed a bug they just have to find a way to speed up the block check or have it equal 100% true on press. Even then though the slightest lag will cause the same problem and some people may think it bugged. If it was indeed a true bug, I think it would effect all guardians and not just a few. I have been playing my guardian since the ob launch and see no difference in the way it works now then it did a few weeks ago. Or at least haven`t noticed it.
I can state almost certainly that it's not latency. And that it does exist, at least for me. Don't know about all GFs though. Thanks for the input anyway!
I want to see it fixed ASAP to.
But since these little patches never contained fixing broken feats or skills its probably something for module 1.
Maybe even module 2 because its a new problem.
Or they delay module 1 to include a fix for this.
I just have a feeling ASAP (a small patch with a fix) wont happen.
Please fix.
I sadly have to accept your point, but that's why I made this thread. At least, let them see it and know its causes ASAP. From there on, it's up to them.
@normanofthar: Thanks for the support!
Farewell remorse; all good to me is lost.
Evil, be thou my good.
Oh well, this is the one where you dont know how to play.
It's basically a game of russian roulette. Am I going to block this time or just take it in the face.
I will agree though that lag does seem to play some part now and it definitely didn't a few weeks ago.
Please fix this. (parking warrior, off to play my theif)
The issue you are seeing is latency between your client & server.
Your client is showing block is up and the server says block is down.
It's no different than you rubber banding into a Boss attack when on your PC you where cleared out of the red zone.
I've seen this issue with many games and yes there appears to be a tweak on the activation & hidden cooldown which made the block a delay a little more noticeable.
But it's ALWAYS had a delay since release and never has been instant.
I played TERA and their lancers had "instant" block with no delay and so when I came to play NW it was very apparent to me about the hidden cooldown and activation delay. During the tutorial I figured out the delays and have adapted ever since. L2P your class and how to report bugs/changes.
except that:
your at will turn to your block mode at will... your encounter, daily, tab skill, consumable are all locked out... u still got hit in your face... u can even USE your changed at will deal dmg and even rec block bar (with the second at will if it wasn't already full) but still getting hit in your face between one at will and the other...
so NO... is not a problem of latency... because the system acknowledge the stance change by changing your skills... but don't trigger your block... it is a server side issue (since they moved the block from client side to server side... and I still wonder why they put it client side to begin with -_-' ) that is registering your action... but not activating it fully...
what u'r talking about (latency) shold react in this manner:
u hit block, you get to black stance and your bar may or may not change (based on where the animation processing is located in the sequence of activation...) u get the hit in the face THAN 2 option will come;
1) u actually enter the block stance since it was simply a delayand order of enterin stance reciving the hit was simply scrabled on your side due to latency issue...
2) u find your self TOTALLY out of the block stance since due to latency it never activated...
but again this is NOT what is happening... u are using the ablities that are linked to BE in block... u'r forbidden to use what u normally can't use while in block... but u'r not actually blocking anything... and this can go on for several seconds (and several swing of your guarded at will) until u realize that u have to drop your guard and put it up again (hoping that this time it will come up for good... -_-')
you understand it's not a delay we're talking about right? It's going into block stance, having block at-wills, but block letting damage thru anyway. I agree latency has a greater impact on some players, but it's wonky. IF that's how the class is supposed to work, then block IS broken -- inherently. So I'll see you as you're kicked from PuG's by my main, cause GF is even more useless as tank and is ultimately just a gimped DPS with cooler armor.
EDIT: the post above me has us covered here, came in while I was typing.
Perhaps you should limit yourself to commenting on things you know literally anything about. It's not a latency issue, it's a dirty fast coding fix issue.
Block used to be client side but people were using 3rd party code to exploit this fact. As a way of "fixing" it they moved it to a server side function. In doing so they created a bug which NEVER EXISTED before they did so. Before doing so your block simply worked. Now assuming they didn't add latency that no-one had beforehand into their patch it's not an issue of latency.
Instead the coding is HAMSTER. It lets you get locked into a blocking stance, changing you to block at wills etc but without actually blocking. It's particularly likely to happen when you are trying to throw out encounter powers between holding block, which you do a lot in PvP. You can "avoid the problem" if you leave a gap between actions and raising block again, but by then you are CC'd and waiting to die. You don't have this problem with dodge, it's only with the GF core mechanic but since there are bugger all GFs compared to other classes it doesn't seem to be a priority.
probably different timing between animation and actual blocking mode flag, some game have this issue to, not broken but still need to be fixed. also I wish the dev team can give more to both Fighter so they can be build focus at 1 point rather than become all-rounder like now
Latency? Are you blind or insane? Here do this. Lunging Strike then block right when you hit the mob. You will make the block animation and take damage. Other skills will work in place of LS, but its my opener and I can bug it every single time without fail. You will be in block animation but you will take damage I promise you that. You will also be able to strafe very fast, which you should not be able to do while blocking because you are very slow(or should be atleast).
You can also do something that isnt even possible in the regular mechanic of this game. You can backpedal. It shouldnt even be able to be done. But here it is. Backpedaling at a speed faster than normal. This is all before the convulsions. You will spazz out and shake from side to side. Like youre seizing.
Heres another way to test it. Press shift to block, let it go then press it immediately again. You will show a half assed block animation, like your character wanted to block but then changed his mind half way up. Once again you will strafe at a higher than normal speed, and backpedal. None of this HAMSTER happened before the second to last patch. And now it does. GF is by far my favorite class in this game and its being handicapped in so many ways its overly annoying now.
Sorry , not seeing your problem and cannot replicate it. Like I said the block don`t seem to work any different for me then when it did at ob launch and I have only played a guardian and no other classes. I guess the blind and insane and immune to shield block bugs, lucky for me.
Now if you are trying to spam your block key, you maybe able to trick your client into raising block but it's not being raised server side.
There are lots of interesting things you can do spamming your keys.
Also I have my block remapped to "a" key and have no issues. Maybe your problem is shift.
Dkcandy, you said, and I quote, "drop block, wait 1 second use block again and it works just fine". The thing is, if we don't wait this one second, we enter this pseudo-block stance. I don't object to the cooldown, but we should be unable to block at all if anything, now we have to block, realise we are not actually blocking, release shift, press shift again. I don't believe this is intended.
lordhorde, you either do something wrong in replicating the bug, or something very weird is afoot... I don't really know what to say right now.