That's all good and fine, except the spike was done with around 400,000 zen, maybe more. I don't think that an influx of 4000+USD within hours has any explanation other than ill gotten gains.
Except you don't know when those bids came in. They could have built up over days, since you can't see the bids until they're in the 'next 5'.
"Participation in PVP-related activities is so low on an hourly, daily, weekly, and monthly basis that we could in fact just completely take it out of STO and it would not impact the overall number of people [who] log in to the game and play in any significant way." -Gozer, Cryptic PvP Dev
50k is only $500. Not really that much when you think about it.
yeah.. but you really don't get it...
These guys had the AD's already, they were buying Zen for AD's, not for money.
If you wanna get AD's with money you have to go through Zen's, that means you have to buy zen for real money and then SELL zen to get AD's.
These guys are buying zen with AD's. Money has next to nothing to do with these numbers. The other tab however, the buy zen tab, this one shows ppl who are willing to sell zen for AD's, and most of these guys probably bought their zen for money. However the available zen offered for AD's is ofcourse alot less than the zen requested for AD's. At least now that all these AD's suddenly appeared on the market.
Now your just stretching. There's no way that those bids would have built up for days to nice round perfect numbers and choose just then to jump to the top.
There is very little explanation for this other than fruits of exploitation. To deny it is to deny the writing on the wall.
Well, you see what you want to see I suppose. Personally, I think the only way those bids build up *is* to nice round perfect numbers. Because only speculators will place big bets that far out of the current range, and they'll make their bids in round numbers.
"Participation in PVP-related activities is so low on an hourly, daily, weekly, and monthly basis that we could in fact just completely take it out of STO and it would not impact the overall number of people [who] log in to the game and play in any significant way." -Gozer, Cryptic PvP Dev
It's however fairly certain that they will try to sell the Zen back for AD's at a higher price.
Now the behaviour of the market last two hours is not really what I would expect from cheaters unless they are either very clever, and I don't know what they are doing, or they are very stupid. Because, atm. the available amount is very evenly distributed between 10-20k at every number between 360-365. Now that is very odd. Almost as someone was sugesting here before, someone is trying to stabilizing the market at this point.
Now if I had this amount of AD's I would manipulate the market to fluctuate as much as possible, to make even more AD's.
Now the only ones that have to gain on this kind of behaviour is ofcourse the ones who sells zen for real money.
Becaus if people don't get enough AD's for their Zen they will probably be less inclined to buy zen for real money, and the trend was that the price was steadily going down.
Now if this is the case, that's even worse, imo. Not saying it is but it looks a bit suspicious.
I do know when they came in. I sat and watched them come in. It was NOT the 5 visible switching to 5 different visible, it was the 5 visible suddenly increasing by between 100k and 150k requested zen each. In a matter of seconds.
Oh and that would mean something like 180 million diamonds suddenly appeared on the market in seconds.
I do know when they came in. I sat and watched them come in. It was NOT the 5 visible switching to 5 different visible, it was the 5 visible suddenly increasing by between 100k and 150k requested zen each. In a matter of seconds.
Oh and that would mean something like 180 million diamonds suddenly appeared on the market in seconds.
Perhaps it's me who can't explain good enough. The requested price was at 320... now that's the highest price anyone's willing to pay for zen. This is stated in the OP. Then suddenly 5-600,000 Zen was requested for the price of about 350, now that's the highest offered price, naturally it will show up, it looked something like this like this
(now these are just numbers I come up with but they are fairly accurate, well in the neighbourhood, and will probably give a better idea what happened)
We're talking about people who wants to buy Zen for AD's here.. you find these numbers under the sell zen tag.
It went from looking something like this:
1000 requested at price 322
1469 requested at price 320
+3 lower all below <10k requested
to
350 000 requested at price 350
1000 requested at price 322
1469 requested at price 320
+2lower
to
99 467 reuquested at price 352
125 000 requested at price 351
337 000 requested at price 350
1000 requested at price 322
1469 requested at price 320
in just a couple of minutes.
oh... and similair happened to Dragon server but with different amounts and prices, at about the same time.
is inaccurate?
"Participation in PVP-related activities is so low on an hourly, daily, weekly, and monthly basis that we could in fact just completely take it out of STO and it would not impact the overall number of people [who] log in to the game and play in any significant way." -Gozer, Cryptic PvP Dev
On Beholder at 4am this morning (central time) the price to buy zen was 299AD/Zen. 7pm it was at 363AD/Zen. The Exchange is fluctuating quite a bit. It may well be a cheater, but it doesn't have to be. Someone with a lot of money/time could be trying to rig it.
from those numbers he must be talking about mindflayer, which was the other server he mentioned. The server I watched it happen on (that he also mentioned) was dragon.
And from the poster above me thats the 3rd one. So all 3 servers seeing similar strange activity at about the same time.
*EDIT*
Although thinking further thats is just guessing for the 3rd one since without more details that 1 could be normal activity over the course of a day.
On Beholder at 4am this morning (central time) the price to buy zen was 299AD/Zen. 7pm it was at 363AD/Zen. The Exchange is fluctuating quite a bit. It may well be a cheater, but it doesn't have to be. Someone with a lot of money/time could be trying to rig it.
BTW, on Mindflayer the rate went from 310 to 360, *yesterday*.
Personally, I think someone has noticed and is making bank on these fairly regular fluctuations. However, currency speculation is not an exploit. (Otherwise, everyone who bought at launch at 500 and is sitting on it is in big trouble.)
"Participation in PVP-related activities is so low on an hourly, daily, weekly, and monthly basis that we could in fact just completely take it out of STO and it would not impact the overall number of people [who] log in to the game and play in any significant way." -Gozer, Cryptic PvP Dev
Yes market fluctuation and currency speculation is normal, I do it myself hence me sitting there watching when this happened today. I don't honestly think you can put what I saw down to legitimate currency speculation, not considering the amounts involved, the sheer speed that it happened and the fact that it was happening on more than 1 server.
That 180 million diamonds i mentioned was a conservative figure and just on 1 server.
*EDIT*
By the way I do not consider people speculating with their ill gotten gains from the recent AD exploit that did not get mopped up to be legitimate.
Also I am not joking about how fast the amounts went up. considering you can only put 5k zen transactions up at a time they would need to have co-ordinated a ton of people at the same time to do it or else used a 3rd party program.
I saw the same exact thing happen the night before the caturday event.
Someone took the 390 rate and jacked it to 500 with a ton of orders and it would fall back down slowly then later jack it up again with another massive order, happened over 4 hours.
I'd say it's very likely it's illegitmate AD. I don't think I've EVER seen a large order like that pop up instantly, it usually takes hours for a "wall" like that to build up.
I saw the same exact thing happen the night before the caturday event.
Someone took the 390 rate and jacked it to 500 with a ton of orders and it would fall back down slowly then later jack it up again with another massive order, happened over 4 hours.
I'd say it's very likely it's an exploit. I don't think I've EVER seen a large order like that pop up instantly, it usually takes hours for a "wall" like that to build up.
Indeed, and that was kindof what I was expecting this time around aswell. They easily have the AD's to buy up all the available zen if they want to, and can then sell back at maximum or near maximum price. This time that doesn't happen. But the rather evenly distirbuted available zen I see now from 360-365... now that's really counterintuitive unless you want to stabilize the market around that value, making it slow moving.
Indeed, and that was kindof what I was expecting this time around aswell. They easily have the AD's to buy up all the available zen if they want to, and can then sell back at maximum or near maximum price. This time that doesn't happen. But the rather evenly distirbuted available zen I saw from 360-365... now that's really counterintuitive unless you want to stabilize the market around that value, making it slow moving.
Sigh, well I knew it was too good to be true when the market was slowly going down to 340's.
Always some jackholes to f*** things up again lol.
It's been said like tens of times on the forums w/proof & screens. There are still a ton of people that made use of many of the exploits way earlier then it was mainstream. The only rollback yet to occur effected almost none of them, just a few idiots that went all-in and got account wipes as well.
Sure a few main accounts were suspended or banned for more popular ones like Pirate King chest, but the damage is done...when you make 300 million AD a day and filter it through 50 characters on 25 accounts there's really no way to track & stop you without wiping. I'm not saying they should wipe, but they should.
People have been using everything that's gone public since launch, I don't have the link anymore but there was an article on how three guys on beta discovered the AD negative bid thing and cashed out with 5 figures each when the posts on forums started popping up.
Edit: To specify, I meant wipe all currency, not characters and time invested.
A good chunk of the currency has already been turned into lots of items by now. Or traded for gold, or sold for cash 1 way or another (real money traders or buying items and selling for cash etc)
After they had wiped all the currency (AD, zen and gold) they would need to wipe all items from game. That means all mounts, companions, scrolls, potions, gear, fashion items, profession levels....everything apart from the naked characters themselves.
They would then need to reissue all diamonds given via founders packs along with all zen transferred to neverwinter from the pw zen site.
Yeah. Don't think they'd do that though. To much bad press as it is.
You are right though. At this point a currency wipe without an item wipe wouldn't help. As soon as the founders got their diamonds back... Those that exploited in the past would be selling their stuff for mega AD profits. The only way to fix it is to wipe (which they won't do) or spend the time tracking all of them down (not sure they can do). That means we are stuck with just riding it out.
*I guess another option would be to cancel all AH sales, wipe the currency, wipe anything that stacks, make all other -current- items character bound. The exploiters (and everyone else) would get to keep their stuff. But they wouldn't be able to sell it. Can't really see them doing that either. Lots of work I'd think.*
Whatever they do they are gonna get blasted for it. Seems at the moment they have chosen to weather out the storm and leave things as they are in the hopes that generates the least problems in the long run. Of course nobody truly knows what they are doing in the background to mop up. (ever noticed how the word truly just really doesn't look right?).
Uh, they shut the auction houses down on the 19th... Quite a bit more than a week ago, 10 days ago to be exact. About the time of a 10 day ban maybe? And we are seeing people put massive amounts of zen up. I'm not sure what you are even...oh wait it's noosed...never mind.
it was stated that explotion was a perma ban. temp bans were done at first and then they investigated each ban to pick between temp and perm.
So someone just now decided to buy Zen for aproximatly 175+ milion AD's
The requested zen was about a couple of thousands hitting 320AD / Zen, then suddenly someone offers to buy aproximatley 5-600,000 Zens for about 350AD's / Zen
Smooth. -.-
Same goes for Dragon server, don't have characters on any other servers but I would be surprised if it wasn't happening at all servers atm.
I know it is getting really old really fast, and that sucks because i had been looking for a new game for a while now to replace diablo 3 and neverwinter finally hit the spot. I love this game, but hate what narrow minded hackers who only think about themselves are doing to it
Hopefully 90% of the hackers and cheaters get caught and somehow punished or at the very least have their illegitimate gains reset because i can tell you it is already punishing the legit players of the game which is BS. I can not afford anything because of the massive inflation already occurring. I plan to save everything till i am lvl 60 anyway if possible, but the few times i have looked at the AH is depressing and looks like it will be a daunting task to even afford a pot to p*ss in.
Comments
Except you don't know when those bids came in. They could have built up over days, since you can't see the bids until they're in the 'next 5'.
yeah.. but you really don't get it...
These guys had the AD's already, they were buying Zen for AD's, not for money.
If you wanna get AD's with money you have to go through Zen's, that means you have to buy zen for real money and then SELL zen to get AD's.
These guys are buying zen with AD's. Money has next to nothing to do with these numbers. The other tab however, the buy zen tab, this one shows ppl who are willing to sell zen for AD's, and most of these guys probably bought their zen for money. However the available zen offered for AD's is ofcourse alot less than the zen requested for AD's. At least now that all these AD's suddenly appeared on the market.
Well, you see what you want to see I suppose. Personally, I think the only way those bids build up *is* to nice round perfect numbers. Because only speculators will place big bets that far out of the current range, and they'll make their bids in round numbers.
Now the behaviour of the market last two hours is not really what I would expect from cheaters unless they are either very clever, and I don't know what they are doing, or they are very stupid. Because, atm. the available amount is very evenly distributed between 10-20k at every number between 360-365. Now that is very odd. Almost as someone was sugesting here before, someone is trying to stabilizing the market at this point.
Now if I had this amount of AD's I would manipulate the market to fluctuate as much as possible, to make even more AD's.
Now the only ones that have to gain on this kind of behaviour is ofcourse the ones who sells zen for real money.
Becaus if people don't get enough AD's for their Zen they will probably be less inclined to buy zen for real money, and the trend was that the price was steadily going down.
Now if this is the case, that's even worse, imo. Not saying it is but it looks a bit suspicious.
Oh and that would mean something like 180 million diamonds suddenly appeared on the market in seconds.
So then this description:
is inaccurate?
And from the poster above me thats the 3rd one. So all 3 servers seeing similar strange activity at about the same time.
*EDIT*
Although thinking further thats is just guessing for the 3rd one since without more details that 1 could be normal activity over the course of a day.
BTW, on Mindflayer the rate went from 310 to 360, *yesterday*.
Personally, I think someone has noticed and is making bank on these fairly regular fluctuations. However, currency speculation is not an exploit. (Otherwise, everyone who bought at launch at 500 and is sitting on it is in big trouble.)
That 180 million diamonds i mentioned was a conservative figure and just on 1 server.
*EDIT*
By the way I do not consider people speculating with their ill gotten gains from the recent AD exploit that did not get mopped up to be legitimate.
Also I am not joking about how fast the amounts went up. considering you can only put 5k zen transactions up at a time they would need to have co-ordinated a ton of people at the same time to do it or else used a 3rd party program.
Someone took the 390 rate and jacked it to 500 with a ton of orders and it would fall back down slowly then later jack it up again with another massive order, happened over 4 hours.
I'd say it's very likely it's illegitmate AD. I don't think I've EVER seen a large order like that pop up instantly, it usually takes hours for a "wall" like that to build up.
The numbers in my example are aproximate numbers from the Beholder server.
Indeed, and that was kindof what I was expecting this time around aswell. They easily have the AD's to buy up all the available zen if they want to, and can then sell back at maximum or near maximum price. This time that doesn't happen. But the rather evenly distirbuted available zen I see now from 360-365... now that's really counterintuitive unless you want to stabilize the market around that value, making it slow moving.
Sigh, well I knew it was too good to be true when the market was slowly going down to 340's.
Always some jackholes to f*** things up again lol.
My mistake for thinking it was mindflayer....guess my mind was flayed hehe
Sure a few main accounts were suspended or banned for more popular ones like Pirate King chest, but the damage is done...when you make 300 million AD a day and filter it through 50 characters on 25 accounts there's really no way to track & stop you without wiping. I'm not saying they should wipe, but they should.
People have been using everything that's gone public since launch, I don't have the link anymore but there was an article on how three guys on beta discovered the AD negative bid thing and cashed out with 5 figures each when the posts on forums started popping up.
Edit: To specify, I meant wipe all currency, not characters and time invested.
After they had wiped all the currency (AD, zen and gold) they would need to wipe all items from game. That means all mounts, companions, scrolls, potions, gear, fashion items, profession levels....everything apart from the naked characters themselves.
They would then need to reissue all diamonds given via founders packs along with all zen transferred to neverwinter from the pw zen site.
At that stage they might as well just wipe.
Yeah. Don't think they'd do that though. To much bad press as it is.
You are right though. At this point a currency wipe without an item wipe wouldn't help. As soon as the founders got their diamonds back... Those that exploited in the past would be selling their stuff for mega AD profits. The only way to fix it is to wipe (which they won't do) or spend the time tracking all of them down (not sure they can do). That means we are stuck with just riding it out.
*I guess another option would be to cancel all AH sales, wipe the currency, wipe anything that stacks, make all other -current- items character bound. The exploiters (and everyone else) would get to keep their stuff. But they wouldn't be able to sell it. Can't really see them doing that either. Lots of work I'd think.*
Saturday, not 7 days ago. Generally you dont cash out by purchasing zen.
it was stated that explotion was a perma ban. temp bans were done at first and then they investigated each ban to pick between temp and perm.
Gold sellers
Hopefully 90% of the hackers and cheaters get caught and somehow punished or at the very least have their illegitimate gains reset because i can tell you it is already punishing the legit players of the game which is BS. I can not afford anything because of the massive inflation already occurring. I plan to save everything till i am lvl 60 anyway if possible, but the few times i have looked at the AH is depressing and looks like it will be a daunting task to even afford a pot to p*ss in.