Not sure why be complaining about rogues. A good 'Control' Wizards can lock someone down for over 80% of the time... and the other 20% they just kite. And also, they can "kill with impunity and laugh all the way to the bank" way more often. Like huehuehue you can't touch this I mentally strangle you to death, oh your getting too close I push you to the other side of the map, wow you insist on getting close I assist you with black void of death. I do not play control wizard but I think all I mentioned was maybe... 20% of their crowd 'control' arsenal? A great weapon fighter can keep you knocked down 60% of the time, so you can't even move. A guardian fighter can block your attacks 90% of the time if they are good. A devoted cleric can out heal your minute dps. WHOA So much class OP I did not notice! Nerf All!
TR hits with SE once every 5 min for 30k > other classes: "they hit me for 30k on every hit"....Ive seen the same whine from mages in so many mmos. Unfortunally, in many mmos the devs listen to them
lol... I guarantee rogues won't get nerfed. Rogue population is dwindling everyday because they are very terrible at level 60. Their CC isn't even a real CC; it's just a silence. Dazed opponents can still run away. You're honestly just a kill stealer waiting for the CW to throw the targets in the air.
Don't really need a TR nerf to say, just make it so CW can actually dodge out of the TR's smoke bomb AoE, we are silenced to do anything at all in there and have to walk out in-combat mode.
Oh yeah just like we can walk out of your grasp oh wait...
or just like we can just dodge out of your grasp? oh wait...
Or even pre dodge the grasp? oh wait...
^ that last one could be me being a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> tbh but Hell I have tried so hard to doge that grasp head on. But it seems as soon as it's cast i'm already marked for grasping like a perverts victim....
The Best PVP Guild on Dragon/Neverwinter: YoloOldSkoolSwagLoveNeverGingersLuvDupStep even if it's just one of us, you might as well just afk.
I did some pvp yesterday and i dont get it. rogue OP? get a new brain at wallmart pls.
the only class that i dont fear in pvp is a 2h swordsman. not impressive at all. everything else seemed balanced "ok" while i think the amount of CC you have to deal with as a rogue is ridiculous high.
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lassewtMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I've heard this all before, throughout countless MMOs down the years. Isn't it getting a bit tiresome now?
It's more tiresome to get one shot in pvp. I have fairly good gear, but still get one-shot by rogues. When there's nothing you can do to avoid that then, yes, rogues needs to be nerfed.
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lassewtMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Not sure why be complaining about rogues. A good 'Control' Wizards can lock someone down for over 80% of the time... and the other 20% they just kite. And also, they can "kill with impunity and laugh all the way to the bank" way more often. Like huehuehue you can't touch this I mentally strangle you to death, oh your getting too close I push you to the other side of the map, wow you insist on getting close I assist you with black void of death. I do not play control wizard but I think all I mentioned was maybe... 20% of their crowd 'control' arsenal? A great weapon fighter can keep you knocked down 60% of the time, so you can't even move. A guardian fighter can block your attacks 90% of the time if they are good. A devoted cleric can out heal your minute dps. WHOA So much class OP I did not notice! Nerf All!
Don't know which game you've been playing. Matter of fact is that while CW's can stand toe to toe with rogues, clerics gets pummeled.
What usually happens after such a 'one-shot-kill' is this:
The TR thinks by him/herself, "Wow, luckily I got him good before executioner hit, because it ONLY DOES DAMAGE BASED ON MISSING HEALTH. Now to get away before his team-mates show up... oops."
The rest is graphic but ends up with a dead TR.
Unless ofcourse the first thought of the TR was, "WTH is this guy doing here alone in a 5v5 TEAM match? Easy prey!" Then it usually ends with posts like that of the OP.
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desarion0o0Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 1Arc User
It's WoW's vanilla rogue all over again. As it was in WoW, no one recognizes that one-shotting people in PvP is overpowered, they just think they're good in this game and that's just ****ing sad. I'm not even playing my rogue anymore, because it's just boring to one-shot everything. GWF is the only truly balanced class in my opinion.
Mages DO have too much control. Clerics ARE unkillable (2v1, when geared), Guardians DO have too much resistance, and Rogues DO deal stupidly large amount of damage. GWF is the only class that has mediocre control, mediocre damage and mediocre tanking abilities, being great at nothing at all, and don't you dare bring up AoE damage, it doesn't do anything in PvP, and it's a fake kind of damage even in PvE.
Here's a thought, stop trying to balance a PvE game for PvP reasons! I'm so **** tired of PvPer's running to the forums and screaming "Nerf!" in a PvE focused game. No, they are not going to nerf a class because you think it's too strong in an environment that has no focus or content.
Seriously, what goes through a players head when he chooses to play a PvE game and says to himself, "Man, I can't wait to log in and play some PvP. I hope the system is balanced for it."....
It's more tiresome to get one shot in pvp. I have fairly good gear, but still get one-shot by rogues. When there's nothing you can do to avoid that then, yes, rogues needs to be nerfed.
Again, no they don't. This is a PvE game. NOT a PvP game. Don't like it? Leave.
It's more tiresome to get one shot in pvp. I have fairly good gear, but still get one-shot by rogues. When there's nothing you can do to avoid that then, yes, rogues needs to be nerfed.
I'm calling bull on this, its impossible for a rogue to kill someone equally geared in a single hit.
Don't know which game you've been playing. Matter of fact is that while CW's can stand toe to toe with rogues, clerics gets pummeled.
As for this, a clerics job isn't to be 1v1ing people, its to hold the team together, clerics are team players, they are pretty <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> when on the own but stupidly powerful when backing a team.
Rogues really aren't in need of a nerf at all. from strongest to weakest classes are:
I have a GUardian level 60, and i posted in all forums saying this rogues are op.
But i did on thing i did one im lev 22 now only leveling in pvp after lev12.
In guardian i was the worse you can imagine and no way i could do nothing.
In rogues im one of the top players almoust al PVP's.
So i say to every one test it.
The problem is not they are OP. Its that they are fun to play.
ANd they can do something.
But for me has rogue and Guardian i find real hard to kill CW, im not going to say they are OP, bur i will test them some day.
What i think is that some classes like guardian (i now this one well) are not too fun to play, and worsse i have a shield build so for pvp sucks.
My idea for Dev teams and all is test it.
Rogue pvp is fun Guardion is not, Guardian shield suks in pvp is no good for nothing. Rogue and CW they can excape well cleric same GWW alsso GUardians no uses shield till you are dead.
So i play rogue now and my Guardian is no "i dont want to play that". And PVE mas was a pain with Guardian ... with Rogue is funs and fast.
So or im more a Rogue kind of player or the Guardina need to be more fun. More fun does notm mean more power.
ANd make the redo points and cjanging powers easy and cehap will improve allot the pvp and the game.
I'm thinking it boils down to AoE attacks vs single target attacks. The rogue is primarily a single target attacker. The other classes tend to be more AoE attacks. Going toe to toe with a single target attacker when you're an AoE attacker will usually give you poor results.
Search forums for "Nerf" or "OP" or "Over Powered" and you will see threads EXACTLY like this one, whining about:
Controls Wizards are TOO POWERFUL.
Great Weapon Fighters are TOO POWERFUL
Devoted Clerics are TOO POWERFUL
Guardian Fighters are TOO POWERFUL (yes, even complaints about THEM).
Oh, and of course the grand original Trickster Rogues are TOO POWERFUL.
Probably better to just give-up and go play Checkers Online.
Really.
Can't play checkers, red is OP because it moves first xD
what the f*** u talking about have u ever seen in any game 1 class being able to kill all the others?WHERE THE F*** U SEEN A ROGUE KILLING A TANK CONSTANTLY?grow up kids how is possible in BattleGrounds all classes having similar kills and rogue has always 10 more at least.ALL THE <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> ABOUT QQQQQQ I HEAR IS JUST <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>.in what game can a rougue kill a mage face to face with 20ft range? WTF?u still talk? all QQers and Rogues consider themselfs pro aren't worth playing even tetris.
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preternatural1Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 8Arc User
Trickster rogues are overpowered. People talk about cw having amazing control, well honestly they're control isnt that much more impressive than TR. Trickster rogues also have crazy survivabilty and utilty in parties. dazing strike, smoke bomb. Also in pvp against a team heavy with cw just slot in impossible to catch. I don't know why some trickster rogues believe other classes have that much more utility apart from GF and DC who are heals and tanks. I've played quite a few T2 with GW, Dc and just rogues. It isn't balanced and it makes it harder to farm gear. There is a problem in balancing because you guys all say well TR is only striker but they also have good control and survivability. Also how can you balance control, e.g. TR doe 50% more dmg than other classes but how do you say, well class x should do 50% more control than TR to make up for it. You can't measure control and its usefulness is just not adequate enough in pve.
It is funny when people use the excuse that they're a striker, because rogues also have great control and survivability. Tone down their dmg and reduce their control.
This made me laugh, until I remembered this amount of sheer ignorance was not only widespread -- it seems to be par for the course. Control?! What CONTROL??? Rogues, in this game, have a few *dazes*, and iirc two short stuns, one a daily, the other requires stealth and breaks stealth upon its use. Your ignorance of the class isn't surprising, but perhaps you, and all of the others like you who seem to hate on TRs simply because "OH NOES STEALTH NINJAZ ARE TEH SCARIEST TEH KILLLZ MEH ONCE!!!!1111111" -- to you bandwagon-jumpers, I suggest you PLAY the class you think is OH-SO-GODLY, and see how hard it is to perform well, how difficult those ambushes are to set up, etc. Then, as I know you'd NEVER admit to LIKING the evil, murderous Rogue, go ahead and delete em, because even the most intellectually dishonest person will see I'm actually talking from a perspective of a player who plays most classes (no GWF, atm, I have the rest).
Once you try the Rogue out, and have seen its play to your satisfaction, do everyone a favor: roll a GF, you'll have to do the same: play till lvl 10, then PvP a bit -- if you have even a SPECK of integrity, you will never waste any of our time on these forums again with this "nerf TR" bull****. By the by, I'm not a proponent of 'nerfing' ANY class, I think all of the classes are dangerous to one another (albeit there are bugs, like armors being able to be swapped in combat for the enchants' cd to be disregarded, and the more familiar AS stacking, etc) but the broad strokes are quite well done... this is a fun game, and I, for one, hope PWE doesn't make it less so due to BUTTHURT FORUM TROLLS, whiners, and people who just don't like one class or another cause their mommies told them that class was the devil.
Pardon the ramblings, but constantly reading these blatant LIES: survivability? CC? WTF class are YOU talking about?! Have you PLAYED a TR? My educated guess is a resounding *no*.
P.S. No TR, in PvP (at least, one that wants to live for very long), DOESN'T have ItC on his/her bar, its not so much "get out of jail free" its "1 less awesome Encounter power", but I KNOW that non-Rogues never see it like that, lol...
I haven't played enough to determine if my Trickster Rogue is overpowered, but my level 3x rogue WON a PVP match. I NEVER win PVP matches in any game. Ever. Like maybe 1 out of every 100-500 matches I am in do I ever rank at the top and I figure it is primarily due to lag or something.
(BTW where in heck do I edit my signature?)
They can't nerf the rogue without risking ruining the class.
The rogue is supposed to be the highest single target damage output in the game. If they do anything to weaken this design principle, the rogue becomes completely useless in PVE. The rogue is allready struggling to defend it's place in a PVE group vis a vis the wizard, who can do everything the rogue can pluss a lot more and all without closing range.
Also as always, a lot of those whining about losing 1v1's in the arena are either poor players and/or they don't understand the basic idea of the class designs. Nowhere does it say that you're entitled to beat a rogue in the arena regardless of class and/or ability and nor should it. Rather I'd say that it's unlikely that you understand the job your class is supposed to do in the first place, and you should consider rerolling.
After all, leveling is a breeze in this game and if you're this passionate about the simplistic, downplayed aspect of the game that Neverwinter PvP is, it should be the easiest thing for you to join" the winning class".
In other words; Take charge of your own fate based on what you think you understand, rather than sit on a forum and whine about misunderstood entitlements.
what the f*** u talking about have u ever seen in any game 1 class being able to kill all the others?WHERE THE F*** U SEEN A ROGUE KILLING A TANK CONSTANTLY?grow up kids how is possible in BattleGrounds all classes having similar kills and rogue has always 10 more at least.ALL THE <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> ABOUT QQQQQQ I HEAR IS JUST <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>.in what game can a rougue kill a mage face to face with 20ft range? WTF?u still talk? all QQers and Rogues consider themselfs pro aren't worth playing even tetris.
First off, this was painful to read, if your going to try and argue, at least make it comprehendible
Secondly, rogues deal damage, that's why they usually have the highest amount of kills. Wizards disable, Clerics hold the team together, Guardian fighters distract and rogues deal damage... great weapon fighters, look pretty and dance while waiting to be buffed.
Every class has a job. (with exception of the gwf, who sucks) If you actually played a rogue, you would realise, that the rogue gets his kills and damage off, when the wizard disables them, or the tank ties them up, so the rogue can do his job.
Thirdly, why are you surprised that the damage deals are killing the tanks? If the single target damage dealers aren't supposed to be able to kill them, then who is? Or do you want tanks to be unkillable?
Finally, Its clerics and wizards who win PvP games. Not rogues.
Ok I'm a TR myself and I cant stand CW they warp every second, we can only roll 2c before our stamina is screwed. Then root us and disarm us.....all we have is a disarm that lets you move around and exit the area a warp behind every 15 seconds or so....STOP MOANING!!!! Not to mention you guys hit like a truck so play hard or go home!
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tanglethornMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
I think people react negatively to the word, nerf. But here is the deal. I've played all the classes and CWs and Rogues are pretty over the top. CWs are probably the worst. No one can deny the current state of the game and class balance. Some adjustments are going to have to made. With the high damage and the ability to shut down their target, you can bypass the need for a GF. Now if thats what Perfect World intended then I am fine with that.
However outside of PVE, there are some glaring class design issues and most of us recognize that. To deny the obvious or look the other way...well thats just pretty much acknowledging you don't want your main to get "fine tuned". I personally am of the mind of not wanting to play a class that is over the top. I like some challenge in a game. What's the point if you are on top and its mostly because of the class you choose? Thats not fun for anyone unless you enjoy god mode. If that's the case, go play skyrim or something and mod it so you can't take damage or deal infinite damage.
Common sense tells me that changes are a coming and I'm not saying this to be vindictive or vengeful because I like all the classes and have played them all. I say this because I want a great game that realizes all the classes need to be on the same playing field.
Comments
Coming Soon To A Forsaken World Near You
Erm... Well Hopefully Soon
Oh yeah just like we can walk out of your grasp oh wait...
or just like we can just dodge out of your grasp? oh wait...
Or even pre dodge the grasp? oh wait...
^ that last one could be me being a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> tbh but Hell I have tried so hard to doge that grasp head on. But it seems as soon as it's cast i'm already marked for grasping like a perverts victim....
the only class that i dont fear in pvp is a 2h swordsman. not impressive at all. everything else seemed balanced "ok" while i think the amount of CC you have to deal with as a rogue is ridiculous high.
It's more tiresome to get one shot in pvp. I have fairly good gear, but still get one-shot by rogues. When there's nothing you can do to avoid that then, yes, rogues needs to be nerfed.
Don't know which game you've been playing. Matter of fact is that while CW's can stand toe to toe with rogues, clerics gets pummeled.
The TR thinks by him/herself, "Wow, luckily I got him good before executioner hit, because it ONLY DOES DAMAGE BASED ON MISSING HEALTH. Now to get away before his team-mates show up... oops."
The rest is graphic but ends up with a dead TR.
Unless ofcourse the first thought of the TR was, "WTH is this guy doing here alone in a 5v5 TEAM match? Easy prey!" Then it usually ends with posts like that of the OP.
Quoted for truth.
Here's a thought, stop trying to balance a PvE game for PvP reasons! I'm so **** tired of PvPer's running to the forums and screaming "Nerf!" in a PvE focused game. No, they are not going to nerf a class because you think it's too strong in an environment that has no focus or content.
Seriously, what goes through a players head when he chooses to play a PvE game and says to himself, "Man, I can't wait to log in and play some PvP. I hope the system is balanced for it."....
Again, no they don't. This is a PvE game. NOT a PvP game. Don't like it? Leave.
I'm calling bull on this, its impossible for a rogue to kill someone equally geared in a single hit.
As for this, a clerics job isn't to be 1v1ing people, its to hold the team together, clerics are team players, they are pretty <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> when on the own but stupidly powerful when backing a team.
Rogues really aren't in need of a nerf at all. from strongest to weakest classes are:
Cleric > wizard > Rogue > Guardian Fighter > summonable companions > Great weapon fighter.
The only class that desperately needs helped is the GWF, who needs a buff.
I have a GUardian level 60, and i posted in all forums saying this rogues are op.
But i did on thing i did one im lev 22 now only leveling in pvp after lev12.
In guardian i was the worse you can imagine and no way i could do nothing.
In rogues im one of the top players almoust al PVP's.
So i say to every one test it.
The problem is not they are OP. Its that they are fun to play.
ANd they can do something.
But for me has rogue and Guardian i find real hard to kill CW, im not going to say they are OP, bur i will test them some day.
What i think is that some classes like guardian (i now this one well) are not too fun to play, and worsse i have a shield build so for pvp sucks.
My idea for Dev teams and all is test it.
Rogue pvp is fun Guardion is not, Guardian shield suks in pvp is no good for nothing. Rogue and CW they can excape well cleric same GWW alsso GUardians no uses shield till you are dead.
So i play rogue now and my Guardian is no "i dont want to play that". And PVE mas was a pain with Guardian ... with Rogue is funs and fast.
So or im more a Rogue kind of player or the Guardina need to be more fun. More fun does notm mean more power.
ANd make the redo points and cjanging powers easy and cehap will improve allot the pvp and the game.
Im dying to try other builds...
Rui M.
lol!!!! +1
Can't play checkers, red is OP because it moves first xD
This made me laugh, until I remembered this amount of sheer ignorance was not only widespread -- it seems to be par for the course. Control?! What CONTROL??? Rogues, in this game, have a few *dazes*, and iirc two short stuns, one a daily, the other requires stealth and breaks stealth upon its use. Your ignorance of the class isn't surprising, but perhaps you, and all of the others like you who seem to hate on TRs simply because "OH NOES STEALTH NINJAZ ARE TEH SCARIEST TEH KILLLZ MEH ONCE!!!!1111111" -- to you bandwagon-jumpers, I suggest you PLAY the class you think is OH-SO-GODLY, and see how hard it is to perform well, how difficult those ambushes are to set up, etc. Then, as I know you'd NEVER admit to LIKING the evil, murderous Rogue, go ahead and delete em, because even the most intellectually dishonest person will see I'm actually talking from a perspective of a player who plays most classes (no GWF, atm, I have the rest).
Once you try the Rogue out, and have seen its play to your satisfaction, do everyone a favor: roll a GF, you'll have to do the same: play till lvl 10, then PvP a bit -- if you have even a SPECK of integrity, you will never waste any of our time on these forums again with this "nerf TR" bull****. By the by, I'm not a proponent of 'nerfing' ANY class, I think all of the classes are dangerous to one another (albeit there are bugs, like armors being able to be swapped in combat for the enchants' cd to be disregarded, and the more familiar AS stacking, etc) but the broad strokes are quite well done... this is a fun game, and I, for one, hope PWE doesn't make it less so due to BUTTHURT FORUM TROLLS, whiners, and people who just don't like one class or another cause their mommies told them that class was the devil.
Pardon the ramblings, but constantly reading these blatant LIES: survivability? CC? WTF class are YOU talking about?! Have you PLAYED a TR? My educated guess is a resounding *no*.
P.S. No TR, in PvP (at least, one that wants to live for very long), DOESN'T have ItC on his/her bar, its not so much "get out of jail free" its "1 less awesome Encounter power", but I KNOW that non-Rogues never see it like that, lol...
(BTW where in heck do I edit my signature?)
The rogue is supposed to be the highest single target damage output in the game. If they do anything to weaken this design principle, the rogue becomes completely useless in PVE. The rogue is allready struggling to defend it's place in a PVE group vis a vis the wizard, who can do everything the rogue can pluss a lot more and all without closing range.
Also as always, a lot of those whining about losing 1v1's in the arena are either poor players and/or they don't understand the basic idea of the class designs. Nowhere does it say that you're entitled to beat a rogue in the arena regardless of class and/or ability and nor should it. Rather I'd say that it's unlikely that you understand the job your class is supposed to do in the first place, and you should consider rerolling.
After all, leveling is a breeze in this game and if you're this passionate about the simplistic, downplayed aspect of the game that Neverwinter PvP is, it should be the easiest thing for you to join" the winning class".
In other words; Take charge of your own fate based on what you think you understand, rather than sit on a forum and whine about misunderstood entitlements.
First off, this was painful to read, if your going to try and argue, at least make it comprehendible
Secondly, rogues deal damage, that's why they usually have the highest amount of kills. Wizards disable, Clerics hold the team together, Guardian fighters distract and rogues deal damage... great weapon fighters, look pretty and dance while waiting to be buffed.
Every class has a job. (with exception of the gwf, who sucks) If you actually played a rogue, you would realise, that the rogue gets his kills and damage off, when the wizard disables them, or the tank ties them up, so the rogue can do his job.
Thirdly, why are you surprised that the damage deals are killing the tanks? If the single target damage dealers aren't supposed to be able to kill them, then who is? Or do you want tanks to be unkillable?
Finally, Its clerics and wizards who win PvP games. Not rogues.
However outside of PVE, there are some glaring class design issues and most of us recognize that. To deny the obvious or look the other way...well thats just pretty much acknowledging you don't want your main to get "fine tuned". I personally am of the mind of not wanting to play a class that is over the top. I like some challenge in a game. What's the point if you are on top and its mostly because of the class you choose? Thats not fun for anyone unless you enjoy god mode. If that's the case, go play skyrim or something and mod it so you can't take damage or deal infinite damage.
Common sense tells me that changes are a coming and I'm not saying this to be vindictive or vengeful because I like all the classes and have played them all. I say this because I want a great game that realizes all the classes need to be on the same playing field.