Does this match something like you were expecting? The idea is to have both male/female romantic interests appear in other episodes and have your interaction with them grow.
This exactly what I personally am looking for, of course opinion varies. But for me the one thing to avoid would be having the romance develop too quickly, I definitely like the sound of what you are doing with having them appear over several episodes and having the relationship develop over time. To me this is just a bit more believable.
I'm also hoping to play your quest later today. Do you have a forum post for feed back for your quest? I'd be happy to give you a review in that as well.
@runis12 The idea of an immortal guard NPC that doesn't go damage to be used as a companion is a great idea. I was hoping to have as much involvement of several of the NPCs as possible, partly because I hate the idea of an romance interest sending you of on a quest while stay at home nice and cozy and warm. It also gives you more possible interactions. But it seems that not be very easy to implement, without a lot of work arounds, like having them constantly respawn after they die, so I will have to see.
Considering romance/sympathy options means I have to add a new character, as an option for female characters played by female players.
I have a pretty lively roster of noticeable NPC but the only male option is not very suited for anything but beating <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> out of him and he's at the enemy side. Two others are undead (and death knights and liches are poor material for this kind of social interactions).
Three remaining female options includes one on the enemy side and I'm pretty sure she's the most interesting choice. This is the only one of them who makes sense being attracted to player regardless of gender. Other females are either too harsh for romancing or have set preferences.
Either way I need to add an interesting male character and find a way to include him in the story in a seamless fashion.
Core mechanic for making such things is simple. I need a way to add a gender appropriate item to player inventory and then with every progress add a token item to keep track of interaction stage, so it can be carried through different maps and scenarios.
I know, I was only joking (slightly ). And trust me I understand the pain of having to do the whole token thing to ascertain gender. I also wish we had ability to differenciate betwen classes (and not just through skills) and perhaps even more importantly, race! AS it is I'm torn between having an uncountable number of token to represent gender and race ontop of dialogue choices, and just not bothering. However I like the idea of tailoring the quests to the player to much to really give up on the idea, so just more work for me.
I have recently created my first quest "Choice by Combat". It doesnt have what you would call romance but it has a dialogue path that allows you to marry the daughter of the man you are suposed to battle if you find her desirable and, after meeting this man, you reach a new understanding of the situation you are in. The idea is you can change sides and make a political manouver. It gives you the chance to talk to the daughter and see her reaction. Its a short quest. Here is the code: NW-DL7DFRIEF. Give it a try if you feel curious
This exactly what I personally am looking for, of course opinion varies. But for me the one thing to avoid would be having the romance develop too quickly, I definitely like the sound of what you are doing with having them appear over several episodes and having the relationship develop over time. To me this is just a bit more believable.
I'm also hoping to play your quest later today. Do you have a forum post for feed back for your quest? I'd be happy to give you a review in that as well.
I was actually quote torn on how to build the romance levels. As a DM, the goal is to make the players have fun. If a guy wants to have a 'one night stand' develop into a relationship, then should the dialogue options open that category? Heck, I met a few of my old girlfriends that way.
On the other hand, is it better if the relationship develops slowly over the course of a few episodes? How far does the relationship go? Should it go to the point of marriage? How would that work in a MMO? Its only persistent in this quest, right?
Honestly the best way seems to build the relationship and have it end tragically. That would keep the continuity of the MMO storyline and be a fun adventure.
Foundry Quests
Author : @labmouse43
Short Code : NW-DJHHV5CGY
Name : The Frosty Protologist
Duration : 15 minutes
Honestly I don't like the idea of gender checking. What if someone playing your adventure is homosexual?
Actually, gender checks are needed only for making dialog a bit more personal. Regardless of NPC orientation, convo between two characters of the same gender may not be the same like convo between two characters of different gender.
You can get away with generic dialog choices in other quests, but in romances it will look very artificial.
As for class checks, those can be done without making use of any tokens, just with making use of class skills.
I like the idea of using class checks in dialogue. Thats very clever.
Foundry Quests
Author : @labmouse43
Short Code : NW-DJHHV5CGY
Name : The Frosty Protologist
Duration : 15 minutes
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zovyaMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
I have 2 characters that are interested in the player regardless of the player's gender or character gender. A little unbelievable I know, but this is a fantasy game and the player is the center of the universe in my campaign. A male and a female. Both have typical personalities for their role and gender in the campaign. The player has to push one or both away by their own choices.
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runis12Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
Glad this thread is still going. So I felt a little sheepish when I let my room-mate play test my quest and he went through a lot of the "flirt" options. I kind of felt like a creep because one of my NPCs is kind of stalkery and purposely out there to make you uncomfortable.
ANYWAY- I hate adding any more than like 4 items to the player's inventory, and I have like 5 NPCs I wanted to toy with. Then there are actual quest items above that to consider. I'm trying to not worry about gender specific dialogue just yet- I think it could be circumvented with some carefully worded dialogue. While I want to give everyone a shot at a certain NPC, there's also the NPC's preferences to consider as a character/person. Which is the other side of the gender specific dialogue that I'm most worried about. ;p Or maybe, yeah, give the player a gender specific at the start of the quest with an OOC NPC asking if you're female or male... Obviously I'm really back on forth on this...! heh---
I keep changing my idea of exactly how I am going to implement the romance too. But I'm slowly coming around to the idea of not bothering with asking about gender, and instead as you said carefully word dialogue and so on, and thus make it completely up to the player as to who they romance and make my very ambitious quests, slightly less daunting. If they every add extra control to dialogue, like the ability to differentiate gender/race and even class better, much as you can add they're name to the dialogue, I might go back and personalise it more.
I'm pretty sure that only one quest item in player inventory is needed to keep track of NPC relationship. Two if there are two available NPC, but if their relationship options are mutually exclusive it can be only one token.
It would be a lot of quest items to made, one for each gender and race combinantion (provided that NPC have any opinions about races and genders, if it doesn't matter in dialogues then maybe only one item per gender is needed). This would be used only for gender checks and starting relationship.
This item would either stay in player inventory or (if gender doesn't matter in further conversations) would be removed upon entering relationship.
Then every relationship stage would give a new item while removing token for the previous stage. Those stage tokens doesn't need to be specific for race and gender. Well, maybe they can be specific for gender if it matters, but otherwise those are only for checking progress.
The biggest limitation is that items aren't carried from one quest to another. Thus there must be area at the beginning of every scenario allowing player to pick up the same item that s/he previously had.
That is the way I'm currently managing the dialogue. It would be so much easier if dialogue could be linked across maps. I don't understand why this hasn't been implimented by cryptic, and I really hope at some point they change this.
Thanks to everyone for all the suggestions! Love this discussion. I'm sorry I haven't had time to respond to this thread (or play, argh!), but I hope this thread makes good advertising for everyone. I'll try to catch up over the next couple days.
I've updated the initial post to include the list of quests so far. Also, runis12, owlhat, and raphaeldisanto, I'll be watching this space for your quests so don't disappoint me!
delthaninMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 188Bounty Hunter
edited May 2013
Interesting. It never occurred to me that nothing like this appears in the majority of Foundry quests, even though I've played a lot of Bioware games. I'll need to keep an eye on this thread for when anyone does something like this.
I wanted to like Alistair. But eh. Morrigan was a stronger character.
I liked Alistair in the beginning, but he lost me when he had that meltdown over Loghain. My jaw actually dropped during that scene.
The Bioware romance I remember with most fondness is with Gannayev-of-Dreams in MOTB. If we're talking about favorite NPC of all time, though, I'd have to say it's still Solaufein from Baldur's Gate II, and he's basically UGC too. Yay, brooding Heathcliff-type drow who recite poetry and rock the whole fighter/mage thing! (My goodness, I think I've just revealed how old I am.)
Interesting. It never occurred to me that nothing like this appears in the majority of Foundry quests, even though I've played a lot of Bioware games. I'll need to keep an eye on this thread for when anyone does something like this.
I think it's because romance is mainly dialogue, and (1) dialogue's time-intensive to write/plot and (2) MMO players have a reputation for just skipping through it. But I like to think there's that special sub-community who'd be willing to keep on making and playing this stuff for the love of it, and those are the people I'd like to find.
Glad this thread is still going. So I felt a little sheepish when I let my room-mate play test my quest and he went through a lot of the "flirt" options. I kind of felt like a creep because one of my NPCs is kind of stalkery and purposely out there to make you uncomfortable.
It's going to sound weird when I say that I'm actually kind of looking forward to this, isn't it? Also, pink-haired NPCs!
While I want to give everyone a shot at a certain NPC, there's also the NPC's preferences to consider as a character/person. Which is the other side of the gender specific dialogue that I'm most worried about.
That's a big part of what I'm worrying about too. And it applies for general social reaction, not just romances. Like maybe for example, a sleazy drunk guy at a tavern might act one way towards a male NPC and another for a female. For now, I'm still mostly going with my original method of handing out gender-items and writing out certain dialogues twice (male/female branches). There've been good ideas thrown out here so far, but there are just some things I want to achieve that can only be done the hard way.
I hope you find a good solution for yours, though.
* Is it having an NPC join you and you include 'romantic dialogue'
* Is it having you talk to a static NPC and eventually have a 'fade to black' scene(s)?
* Would you want the ability to 'marry' your NPC.
* Does it matter male/female? It seems that there need to be 2 different NPCs to create.
I'm pretty much partial to the Bioware-type romances, where you have running dialogues with the NPCs and they join your party. It's going to be complicated to implement here, but I think it might work as long as the NPC doesn't have to be with you all the time. They could just escort you part of the way, then tell you to meet them elsewhere, etc. It's going to be annoying as there will be a lot of appearing and disappearing going on, but I think it could be workable. Runis12's idea about immortal non-combatant guards is a great idea as well.
Flirt options and one-night stands are cool too. Marriage would be, hmm, a great option, but not really necessary for me in the game.
I personally have three NPCs who work with either gender. Two seems to be the best option, yes.
I've updated the initial post to include the list of quests so far.
As it is now, do not include Witch Hunt in your list.
I do not want false advertising, and Witch Hunt is merely a setup for rest of the campaign.
There is simply not enough place to introduce relationship in this tiny mission. Though one of mentioned NPC is there, this first quest is more an exposition for story and characters.
This thread has inspired me to add some romance based encounters over the course of the campaign I'm building. You can find the link to it in my sig.
Glad to hear that! I've included it in the list of suggestions on my first post.
Does this match something like you were expecting? The idea is to have both male/female romantic interests appear in other episodes and have your interaction with them grow.
Yes, I prefer it slow and steady myself. The romance wouldn't have as much impact if it's already over on the first episode, it's definitely more intriguing to develop it over the course of the campaign. (Maybe even affect the main plot.) For me, personally, the romance sub-plot is a "hook" that'll keep me stringing along no matter what.
Then every relationship stage would give a new item while removing token for the previous stage. Those stage tokens doesn't need to be specific for race and gender. Well, maybe they can be specific for gender if it matters, but otherwise those are only for checking progress.
So many great ideas, especially this one! Thoroughly going to steal this.
The biggest limitation is that items aren't carried from one quest to another. Thus there must be area at the beginning of every scenario allowing player to pick up the same item that s/he previously had.
That's another thing I'm worried about. It also applies for any continuing consequences throughout the campaign. For example, I'm actually thinking of giving my players an item if they chose to do the "evil" option in one quest, and another item if they chose the "good" option. This influences whether certain NPCs would help them in a boss fight or not. But how do we make sure in the next episode that the player is actually choosing the items that they had from the previous quest? Right now all I can think of is using trick questions, but that's too easy to work around.
This is exactly the kind of thing I'm looking for! Can't wait for August. No pressure or anything.
I'm glad I know I have at least one person who will play, and hopefuly like, my quest/campaign! I really want my exams to be over now so I can finaly get it going.
And thanks for making this thread, found several great quests I really enjoyed playing through this, looking forward to anymore people make!
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runis12Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I liked Alistair in the beginning, but he lost me when he had that meltdown over Loghain. My jaw actually dropped during that scene.
Haha! He sure melts down when you pick any non-canonical dialogue choice that suggests keeping Loghain alive. I'm personally a Fenris fan. Right now as my first Foundry quest stands, it's in the flirtation phase with the NPCs. Nothing too saucy is going to happen, y'know, want stuff to slowly develop. Though, there is an NPC who basically asks you to consider marrying him - with him clearly having no romantic feelings for you (part of his story arc). I wanted a way for this NPC to be a little quirky, but still have that spicy option, I suppose. Just in case anyone wants to just jump into that kinda thing right away. Of course, you can back out of the proposal or just dodge it for now. Marraige really isn't that necessary to me, unless it's really tied in to the plot. But there are people who will like it, so I will add the options in at the end of the story.
I'm torn on the subject of marrying the NPC romance. Clearly it needs to be an option to avoid if the PC doesn't want it, but still wants the relationship to continue it's status quo, as it where. I have however also been toying with the idea of not having the marriage option right at the end of the campaign more sort of the beginning of the end (still giving the relationship enough time to develop naturally to the point of marriage), so that maybe you can do one or two quests as a married couple? I don't know how receptive people would be to the idea, on the one hand it opens up a whole other dynamic and areas I could take it, on the over hand one must be careful to err on the side of caution, lest it become a soap... However, I do think it might be a bit boring and predictable to have it so that you get married at the end, but maybe that's just me. What are your opinions?
0
runis12Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
I'm more in line with the "beginning of the end" thing you said, heh, IF I go all the way with a marriage route. ^^ Not every character/NPC is going to be open to the idea of marriage too, or be ready for it when you are. Ex: Sebastian from DA2 and your character can get married before heading to the end of the game. Isabela and you don't get married, but rather sail off on her ship for a "happy ending". Not every character needs to have the option!
Comments
This exactly what I personally am looking for, of course opinion varies. But for me the one thing to avoid would be having the romance develop too quickly, I definitely like the sound of what you are doing with having them appear over several episodes and having the relationship develop over time. To me this is just a bit more believable.
I'm also hoping to play your quest later today. Do you have a forum post for feed back for your quest? I'd be happy to give you a review in that as well.
@runis12 The idea of an immortal guard NPC that doesn't go damage to be used as a companion is a great idea. I was hoping to have as much involvement of several of the NPCs as possible, partly because I hate the idea of an romance interest sending you of on a quest while stay at home nice and cozy and warm. It also gives you more possible interactions. But it seems that not be very easy to implement, without a lot of work arounds, like having them constantly respawn after they die, so I will have to see.
Admittedly a terrible solution and a poor assumption, but it hits the majority of the playerbase I think.
I've considered doing a gender check question, and maybe will some day in the future.
Bill's Tavern | The 27th Level | Secret Agent 34
I have a pretty lively roster of noticeable NPC but the only male option is not very suited for anything but beating <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> out of him and he's at the enemy side. Two others are undead (and death knights and liches are poor material for this kind of social interactions).
Three remaining female options includes one on the enemy side and I'm pretty sure she's the most interesting choice. This is the only one of them who makes sense being attracted to player regardless of gender. Other females are either too harsh for romancing or have set preferences.
Either way I need to add an interesting male character and find a way to include him in the story in a seamless fashion.
Core mechanic for making such things is simple. I need a way to add a gender appropriate item to player inventory and then with every progress add a token item to keep track of interaction stage, so it can be carried through different maps and scenarios.
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?304062-Trade-Reviews-Looking-for-input
I was actually quote torn on how to build the romance levels. As a DM, the goal is to make the players have fun. If a guy wants to have a 'one night stand' develop into a relationship, then should the dialogue options open that category? Heck, I met a few of my old girlfriends that way.
On the other hand, is it better if the relationship develops slowly over the course of a few episodes? How far does the relationship go? Should it go to the point of marriage? How would that work in a MMO? Its only persistent in this quest, right?
Honestly the best way seems to build the relationship and have it end tragically. That would keep the continuity of the MMO storyline and be a fun adventure.
Author : @labmouse43
Short Code : NW-DJHHV5CGY
Name : The Frosty Protologist
Duration : 15 minutes
Honestly I don't like the idea of gender checking. What if someone playing your adventure is homosexual?
I would rather build a game where someone can pursue both male and female interests simultaneously than block one off.
Author : @labmouse43
Short Code : NW-DJHHV5CGY
Name : The Frosty Protologist
Duration : 15 minutes
You can get away with generic dialog choices in other quests, but in romances it will look very artificial.
As for class checks, those can be done without making use of any tokens, just with making use of class skills.
Author : @labmouse43
Short Code : NW-DJHHV5CGY
Name : The Frosty Protologist
Duration : 15 minutes
ANYWAY- I hate adding any more than like 4 items to the player's inventory, and I have like 5 NPCs I wanted to toy with. Then there are actual quest items above that to consider. I'm trying to not worry about gender specific dialogue just yet- I think it could be circumvented with some carefully worded dialogue. While I want to give everyone a shot at a certain NPC, there's also the NPC's preferences to consider as a character/person.
It would be a lot of quest items to made, one for each gender and race combinantion (provided that NPC have any opinions about races and genders, if it doesn't matter in dialogues then maybe only one item per gender is needed). This would be used only for gender checks and starting relationship.
This item would either stay in player inventory or (if gender doesn't matter in further conversations) would be removed upon entering relationship.
Then every relationship stage would give a new item while removing token for the previous stage. Those stage tokens doesn't need to be specific for race and gender. Well, maybe they can be specific for gender if it matters, but otherwise those are only for checking progress.
The biggest limitation is that items aren't carried from one quest to another. Thus there must be area at the beginning of every scenario allowing player to pick up the same item that s/he previously had.
I've updated the initial post to include the list of quests so far. Also, runis12, owlhat, and raphaeldisanto, I'll be watching this space for your quests so don't disappoint me!
I liked Alistair in the beginning, but he lost me when he had that meltdown over Loghain. My jaw actually dropped during that scene.
The Bioware romance I remember with most fondness is with Gannayev-of-Dreams in MOTB. If we're talking about favorite NPC of all time, though, I'd have to say it's still Solaufein from Baldur's Gate II, and he's basically UGC too. Yay, brooding Heathcliff-type drow who recite poetry and rock the whole fighter/mage thing! (My goodness, I think I've just revealed how old I am.)
I think it's because romance is mainly dialogue, and (1) dialogue's time-intensive to write/plot and (2) MMO players have a reputation for just skipping through it. But I like to think there's that special sub-community who'd be willing to keep on making and playing this stuff for the love of it, and those are the people I'd like to find.
Glad to have you on board.
It's going to sound weird when I say that I'm actually kind of looking forward to this, isn't it? Also, pink-haired NPCs!
That's a big part of what I'm worrying about too. And it applies for general social reaction, not just romances. Like maybe for example, a sleazy drunk guy at a tavern might act one way towards a male NPC and another for a female. For now, I'm still mostly going with my original method of handing out gender-items and writing out certain dialogues twice (male/female branches). There've been good ideas thrown out here so far, but there are just some things I want to achieve that can only be done the hard way.
I hope you find a good solution for yours, though.
I'm pretty much partial to the Bioware-type romances, where you have running dialogues with the NPCs and they join your party. It's going to be complicated to implement here, but I think it might work as long as the NPC doesn't have to be with you all the time. They could just escort you part of the way, then tell you to meet them elsewhere, etc. It's going to be annoying as there will be a lot of appearing and disappearing going on, but I think it could be workable. Runis12's idea about immortal non-combatant guards is a great idea as well.
Flirt options and one-night stands are cool too. Marriage would be, hmm, a great option, but not really necessary for me in the game.
I personally have three NPCs who work with either gender. Two seems to be the best option, yes.
This is exactly the kind of thing I'm looking for! Can't wait for August.
As it is now, do not include Witch Hunt in your list.
I do not want false advertising, and Witch Hunt is merely a setup for rest of the campaign.
There is simply not enough place to introduce relationship in this tiny mission. Though one of mentioned NPC is there, this first quest is more an exposition for story and characters.
I will be starting it in the next quest.
Glad to hear that! I've included it in the list of suggestions on my first post.
Yes, I prefer it slow and steady myself. The romance wouldn't have as much impact if it's already over on the first episode, it's definitely more intriguing to develop it over the course of the campaign. (Maybe even affect the main plot.) For me, personally, the romance sub-plot is a "hook" that'll keep me stringing along no matter what.
So many great ideas, especially this one! Thoroughly going to steal this.
That's another thing I'm worried about. It also applies for any continuing consequences throughout the campaign. For example, I'm actually thinking of giving my players an item if they chose to do the "evil" option in one quest, and another item if they chose the "good" option. This influences whether certain NPCs would help them in a boss fight or not. But how do we make sure in the next episode that the player is actually choosing the items that they had from the previous quest? Right now all I can think of is using trick questions, but that's too easy to work around.
Will do! Looking forward to the next one then.
I'm glad I know I have at least one person who will play, and hopefuly like, my quest/campaign!
And thanks for making this thread, found several great quests I really enjoyed playing through this, looking forward to anymore people make!
Haha! He sure melts down when you pick any non-canonical dialogue choice that suggests keeping Loghain alive. I'm personally a Fenris fan.
The Heathcliff-broody elves are the best!