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Do you have a problem with the current community policing? (24h Mute)

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    thequeueballthequeueball Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    keeganfox wrote: »
    Yup, dem the only two options. No third option some have used to express a middle-ground. Newp. That hasn't happened.

    Except for the 15% of people where it did happen.

    Let's make it very clear to see if your simple mind can handle this,

    give one good reason why you should be allowed to ban someone from chatting at all in the game. Not just zone chat, but guild whispers and party. One really good convincing reason.

    Because once again the argument isn't about zone chat being blocked.
  • Options
    screamingpalmscreamingpalm Member Posts: 304 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    ranncore wrote: »
    It's true that it can be abused, but the benefits are worth the risks.

    Seemed to have worked well enough in Salem, MA circa 1692-1693. If it wasn't for mob justice, who knows what sort of sorcery the USA would have become! Good thing we won't have to worry about that in a virtual world protected by the puritans.
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    gsundered11gsundered11 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 135 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    Seemed to have worked well enough in Salem, MA circa 1692-1693. If it wasn't for mob justice, who knows what sort of sorcery the USA would have become! Good thing we won't have to worry about that in a virtual world protected by the puritans.

    Yes, because being burned alive and not being able to chat in a game for 24 hours are exactly the same. I know it's not yet June but close the nominations for the Pulitzer Prize for Awesomely Apposite Analogies now. Keeping it open would just cruelly raise other's hopes.
  • Options
    keeganfoxkeeganfox Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    yult wrote: »
    Trolling your own thread? Nice

    sTZPwjb.jpg

    I'll be sure to put out the PSA to ALL@INTER.NET that any use of sarcasm now constitutes trolling.

    *pops open another beer*
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    keeganfoxkeeganfox Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Seemed to have worked well enough in Salem, MA circa 1692-1693. If it wasn't for mob justice, who knows what sort of sorcery the USA would have become! Good thing we won't have to worry about that in a virtual world protected by the puritans.

    oMf89Jg.jpg

    Ou, nice try! But you just hurt your position far more than I ever could. Good show! :D
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    imivoimivo Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 1,682 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    Seemed to have worked well enough in Salem, MA circa 1692-1693. If it wasn't for mob justice, who knows what sort of sorcery the USA would have become!

    Do you feel that it's valid to directly compare the inability to chat for 24h in an online video game to a person losing their life by getting executed?

    Do you think at all before posting stuff like this?
    Unsure about skills and feats? Check the Master List of Class Builds!
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    clcmercyclcmercy Banned Users, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 308 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    From my point of view, the problem with the current system is...it's abuse-prone. Vengeance seeking people can ban together and inflict a non-communication "punishment" on someone with a different opinion.

    The chat ban does not need to be in the system. Think about it carefully. If both functions had only an ignore...and you ignore all item sellers in zone chat...what difference does it make to YOU? YOU still don't "hear" the zone sales...YOU still wander around in peaceful bliss...YOU have taken into your own hands your enjoyment of the game, instead of inflicting your will upon someone else, robbing them of THEIR enjoyment.

    So, the ONLY acceptable solution, (in my honest opinion) is to strip out the chat ban function, but leave the ignore function alone. Let people ignore whom they will, just don't have it affect whether or not the ignored can still communicate.

    Occam's Razor makes the cutting clean.
  • Options
    screamingpalmscreamingpalm Member Posts: 304 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    Sorry, I didn't know we were supposed to take this drivel so seriously.

    You guys seriously have troubles with taking everything literally. The take away, if not evident or obvious, was that mob rule in any context... not such a good idea. But enjoy your witch hunt if that rocks your socks.
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    clcmercyclcmercy Banned Users, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 308 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    Seemed to have worked well enough in Salem, MA circa 1692-1693. If it wasn't for mob justice, who knows what sort of sorcery the USA would have become! Good thing we won't have to worry about that in a virtual world protected by the puritans.

    Umm...I'm pretty sure this post was sarcasm. Ease up, people.

    Occam's Razor makes the cutting clean.
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    gsundered11gsundered11 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 135 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    imivo wrote: »
    Do you feel that it's valid to directly compare the inability to chat for 24h in an online video game to a person losing their life by getting executed?

    Do you think at all before posting stuff like this?

    Being silenced in a game is JUST LIKE Pearl Harbor, 9/11 and the Holocaust all rolled into one.
  • Options
    thequeueballthequeueball Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    keeganfox wrote: »
    oMf89Jg.jpg

    Ou, nice try! But you just hurt your position far more than I ever could. Good show! :D

    You have a lot of time to post your garble with no substance. Try responding to my previous post:

    Let's make it very clear to see if your simple mind can handle this,

    give one good reason why you should be allowed to ban someone from chatting at all in the game. Not just zone chat, but guild whispers and party. One really good convincing reason.

    Because once again the argument isn't about zone chat being blocked.
  • Options
    screamingpalmscreamingpalm Member Posts: 304 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    Being silenced in a game is JUST LIKE Pearl Harbor, 9/11 and the Holocaust all rolled into one.

    Only if you take fascism into account. :P
  • Options
    keeganfoxkeeganfox Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Sorry, I didn't know we were supposed to take this drivel so seriously.

    You guys seriously have troubles with taking everything literally. The take away, if not evident or obvious, was that mob rule in any context... not such a good idea. But enjoy your witch hunt if that rocks your socks.

    So were you making a joke? or were you making a point? Because here you're saying you did both.

    Either you don't care and you were making a joke, or you seriously consider someone 'innocent' losing the ability to chat for 24 hours to outweigh the benefit of muting a great deal of spammers.

    Coming in and calling everyone "So serious" doesn't make your point valid if it doesn't address the fallacies in your statement. That's just being lazy.
  • Options
    imivoimivo Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 1,682 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    clcmercy wrote: »
    The chat ban does not need to be in the system. Think about it carefully. If both functions had only an ignore...and you ignore all item sellers in zone chat...what difference does it make to YOU? YOU still don't "hear" the zone sales...

    The difference is that fifty, a hundred, three hundred people should not all have to individually ignore one person who spams, misuses the public chat or behaves poorly. If twenty people feel agitated and irritated by one person, there is no reason why that person should be permitted to continue to annoy or abuse dozens more players.

    This system also discourages spamming and verbal abuse, because players know that they will get silenced by the community. So the mere existence prevents spamming and such before it even happens.

    I do feel that the system can be improved (see my other post), but in itself I believe that community self-policing in a F2P game is a valuable tool.
    Unsure about skills and feats? Check the Master List of Class Builds!
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    thequeueballthequeueball Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Figures as much, he ignored me in game because his simple mind cannot form an argument as to why you should block someone from using any chat, not just zone.

    As far as i'm concerned, this child likes his sheriff badge he was given and doesn't care about defending it.

    I've also grouped with him, and his toxicity is disgusting. Not to mention he's not very good, but likes to blame others.
  • Options
    sockmunkeysockmunkey Member Posts: 4,622 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    You have a lot of time to post your garble with no substance. Try responding to my previous post:

    Let's make it very clear to see if your simple mind can handle this,

    give one good reason why you should be allowed to ban someone from chatting at all in the game. Not just zone chat, but guild whispers and party. One really good convincing reason.

    Because once again the argument isn't about zone chat being blocked.

    Ill take that challenge. If they are a gold seller. Or breaking the terms of the game by spouting anything from hate to nonsense. Ignore is not always enough. There is a reason a TOS is in place, breaking it should lead to punishment.

    The problem is in how the punishment is being administered and by whom and the level of punishment imposed. But to believe that there should be no punishment at all for clear rule violations is a hard position to defend.
  • Options
    screamingpalmscreamingpalm Member Posts: 304 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    keeganfox wrote: »
    So were you making a joke? or were you making a point? Because here you're saying you did both.

    Either you don't care and you were making a joke, or you seriously consider someone 'innocent' losing the ability to chat for 24 hours to outweigh the benefit of muting a great deal of spammers.

    Coming in and calling everyone "So serious" doesn't make your point valid if it doesn't address the fallacies in your statement. That's just being lazy.

    The point of the simile was to express why mob justice fails, not to compare a ban with being burned at the stake. Try not to take everything so literally? If someone says "she is like a rose", they don't literally mean she is a flower ffs. Same as when people say they are going to "take" a shower. Probably the reason history teaches us nothing I guess.
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    thequeueballthequeueball Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    sockmunkey wrote: »
    Ill take that challenge. If they are a gold seller. Or breaking the terms of the game by spouting anything from hate to nonsense. Ignore is not always enough. There is a reason a TOS is in place, breaking it should lead to punishment.

    The problem is in how the punishment is being administered and by whom and the level of punishment imposed. But to believe that there should be no punishment at all for clear rule violations is a hard position to defend.

    I haven't said there shouldn't be a punishment. You are going back to the gold seller argument. We're talking about players banning other players. Leave gold sellers out of it for a minute, that's a bigger issue entirely.

    Why should players have the authority to ban other players from chatting in all forms?
  • Options
    keeganfoxkeeganfox Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    You have a lot of time to post your garble with no substance. Try responding to my previous post:

    Let's make it very clear to see if your simple mind can handle this,

    You see that there? That's where I stop reading. Because in my eyes you've already proven yourself worthless, and I'm not going to read what you post if you give me a reason to stop. It's probably why I haven't replied to you here in the forums, and just now noticed (because I'm sitting in Protector's Enclave and didn't see the purple 'whisper' among all the selling spam in zone) your private messages to me.

    See, insults are the last resort of a weak mind. If you can't keep a civil conversation I'm not going to reply to you. It's a waste of my time. I'd prefer you just keep wasting yours. :)

    Oh, and I put you on ignore for spamming me with tells. :) Consider yourself lucky I didn't report you for harassment.

    Now grow up and stop being so whiny I was right about more people being happy with the system than not.
  • Options
    thequeueballthequeueball Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    keeganfox wrote: »
    You see that there? That's where I stop reading. Because in my eyes you've already proven yourself worthless, and I'm not going to read what you post if you give me a reason to stop. It's probably why I haven't replied to you here in the forums, and just now noticed (because I'm sitting in Protector's Enclave and didn't see the purple 'whisper' among all the selling spam in zone) your private messages to me.

    See, insults are the last resort of a weak mind. If you can't keep a civil conversation I'm not going to reply to you. It's a waste of my time. I'd prefer you just keep wasting yours. :)

    Oh, and I put you on ignore for spamming me with tells. :) Consider yourself lucky I didn't report you for harassment.

    Now grow up and stop being so whiny I was right about more people being happy with the system than not.

    This poll proves nothing. I asked you a simple question and you refuse to give a good reason. End of discussion.

    I also didn't "spam you with tells" so you just showed how the system can be abused ;)
  • Options
    keeganfoxkeeganfox Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    The point of the simile was to express why mob justice fails, not to compare a ban with being burned at the stake. Try not to take everything so literally? If someone says "she is like a rose", they don't literally mean she is a flower ffs. Same as when people say they are going to "take" a shower. Probably the reason history teaches us nothing I guess.

    Similes have their place, but we're not quoting poetry here, mate. We've no problem with you playing baseball, but it's still useless if you show up to our hockey game with a bat. No one is going to take you seriously that way and be confused when you do.

    I thought it was pretty clear in the very first post that it can be exploited, but it's pros outweigh the cons. We'd all be complaining if being reported for spamming 5 times banned your account. But it doesn't. It's a chat mute. That is the crux of why your statement was a straw man argument and isn't relevant. Clever, sure. Very witty. We're very amused you brought a catchers mitt instead of hockey pants, but you're still not playing hockey with us.
  • Options
    sockmunkeysockmunkey Member Posts: 4,622 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    I haven't said there shouldn't be a punishment. You are going back to the gold seller argument. We're talking about players banning other players. Leave gold sellers out of it for a minute, that's a bigger issue entirely.

    Why should players have the authority to ban other players from chatting in all forms?


    I said more then gold sellers. Shame you missed it. In fact I only mentioned it once and mentioned TOS violations several times. Because gold selling falls into that larger topic of TOS violations. My opinion on the matter would stay the same if it was someone simply shouting racial slurs over and over again instead of a gold seller.

    That said, your challenge was clear.

    give one good reason why you should be allowed to ban someone from chatting at all in the game. Not just zone chat, but guild whispers and party. One really good convincing reason.

    Denying someone the ability to chat, when that method was used to violate the terms they agreed to. Is punishment. There is your reason. You don't have to like it or agree with it. But it is a clear reason.
  • Options
    screamingpalmscreamingpalm Member Posts: 304 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    keeganfox wrote: »
    Similes have their place, but we're not quoting poetry here, mate. We've no problem with you playing baseball, but it's still useless if you show up to our hockey game with a bat. No one is going to take you seriously that way and be confused when you do.

    I thought it was pretty clear in the very first post that it can be exploited, but it's pros outweigh the cons. We'd all be complaining if being reported for spamming 5 times banned your account. But it doesn't. It's a chat mute. That is the crux of why your statement was a straw man argument and isn't relevant. Clever, sure. Very witty. We're very amused you brought a catchers mitt instead of hockey pants, but you're still not playing hockey with us.

    Would Orwell or Huxley been a better comparison? Or is that "just not cricket"? :D
  • Options
    keeganfoxkeeganfox Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    This poll proves nothing. I asked you a simple question and you refuse to give a good reason. End of discussion.

    I also didn't "spam you with tells" so you just showed how the system can be abused ;)

    This poll is the single most definitive evidence of player satisfaction EVER in the history of ALL GAMES EVERYWHERE an is...what was the quote from earlier? Oh right, IRREFUTABLE EVIDENCE of...uh--PERFECTION in the PERFECT WORLD and therefore all other arguments are invalid. That's why it's called Perfect World.

    But we're glad you're leaving the discussion. It's less posts for many of us to read.

    And I said I put you on ignore; I didn't report you for spamming. So thanks for showing your paranoia and inability to understand the difference between what we're all doing, and what you think everyone in the game is doing.
  • Options
    allaerraallaerra Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 838 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    Gold sellers and links to other sites should be reported. People WTS or LFG should not have a 24 hour chat ban. Selling and grouping are part of the game and until a Trade Channel and Group Channel is put in game by the DEVs, Zone chat is the only other place for it.
  • Options
    keeganfoxkeeganfox Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Does anyone else get the feeling the people who are most upset about this are people who don't have the ability to chat outside the game? Like...they don't have friends or something?

    If this bothers you, maybe you're doing something wrong...like, fundamentally.

    Does being reported mute the in-game voice too? I mean, you could still queue for PvP or Skirmishes, and chat over voice. I dunno. I don't use zone unless I feel like killing some time chatting or...no that's pretty much it. I can have a lot of fun playing the game without using zone. And I Skype or TS with my friends.

    I'd go as far to say that there should be a Trade and LFG channel, but if you spammed one you'd probably just spam another and should be banned from those too. Blocking party/group chat seems unnecessary but I've a feeling that's due to a limitation of Cryptic's programming. A binary chat ability is likely a hell of a sight easier to implement than "Well, is it trying to send via group chat or zone?" People will just have to make do with that until Cryptic gets around to fixing it. Or buy a microphone.

    And more importantly, because Trade and LFG don't exist (or I haven't seen them if they do) isn't an excuse to spam everyone in zone.

    I guess the take-away is: "It's just chat, and it's not happening to most people."
  • Options
    screamingpalmscreamingpalm Member Posts: 304 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    Considering I've spent the last week + in solitude working on a Foundry project, no. I just don't like it on principle.
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    keeganfoxkeeganfox Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    allaerra wrote: »
    Gold sellers and links to other sites should be reported. People WTS or LFG should not have a 24 hour chat ban. Selling and grouping are part of the game and until a Trade Channel and Group Channel is put in game by the DEVs, Zone chat is the only other place for it.

    I don't think it's people who are selling in zone that are getting reported.

    It's not getting a 24hr mute for:
    [Zone] Queue: WTT [Sinister Shade's Armor] for Swashbuckling Armor

    People are getting reported for:
    [Zone] Queue: WTT [Sinister Shade's Armor] for Swashbuckling Armor
    [Zone] Queue: WTT [Sinister Shade's Armor] for Swashbuckling Armor
    [Zone] Queue: WTT [Sinister Shade's Armor] for Swashbuckling Armor
    [Zone] Queue: WTT [Sinister Shade's Armor] for Swashbuckling Armor


    Ya know? It's pretty easy to pick that out of a zone chat, usually because it scrolled off what you were trying to read.

    I think there's some frustration because each 'report' against you doesn't seem to go away until you're muted for a day. There doesn't appear to be a 'cooldown'. So someone can have done what I did above and gotten, say, 9 reports. Then the next day they do something especially obnoxious and a single person reports them, making it 10. So suddenly, out of the blue (to them) they get a 24 hour mute. And some people flip the hell out over this.
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    bel1eveeebel1eveee Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Actually yes , some people have been muted for

    [Zone] Queue: WTT [Sinister Shade's Armor] for Swashbuckling Armor

    http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?292362-Chat-Banned-Proof-this-system-sucks/page55
    check this thread there are plenty of screenshots depicting this.Oh I know they all must be photoshopped!
  • Options
    clcmercyclcmercy Banned Users, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 308 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    keeganfox wrote: »

    And I said I put you on ignore; I didn't report you for spamming. So thanks for showing your paranoia and inability to understand the difference between what we're all doing, and what you think everyone in the game is doing.

    But by ignoring, you did contribute to the total "demerits" that lead to a chat ban. You in effect, voted for his/her silencing ingame. I'll say this again, as I've said it in other threads.

    When you; or anyone for that matter....ignore someone...it puts a "demerit" on the person ignored. When enough "demerits" are accumulated...then BAM. Silence ensues for 24 hours.
    Using the report spam function puts more than one "demerit" on a person, but the total for silencing remains the same.

    Look...punishment does need to be in there somewhere...but said punishment should most certainly NOT be up to us, the players. It is simply too abuse-prone. To demonstrate....I am seriously contemplating going ingame and just ignoring the people that are in support of this inane system in the hopes that it'll silence some of you...JUST TO DEMONSTRATE ITS BROKENNESS. That's wrong. I know it is. But the temptation is there, nonetheless. Don't worry, I wouldn't. Simply because I'm dead set against this broken way of doing things.

    If Cryptic is too cheap to hire people to monitor spam reports and deal with them impartially...then there should be no chat ban feature. If the company producing the game can't be bothered to moderate ingame experiences....then it shouldn't be left up to the players to self moderate, because we ALL know where that'll go.

    Occam's Razor makes the cutting clean.
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