Impact of Early Mediocre Reviews?

tripsofthrymr · May 2013

My first three reviews were 4/5 stars with lots of great suggestions (in the forum) for getting to 5/5 stars. I spent a bunch of time working on the suggestions and published my update.

This morning I found two new reviews, both 3/5, with barely any useful feedback.

The good news is, I'm now visible to general players. The bad news is, my average stars are 3.5/5.

Do the two mediocre reviews essentially kill my quest, since anonymous players have tons of new quests to choose from, many of which will be at or close to 5/5 stars (either because they are great, or just because they got friendly reviews)?

It's disheartening to invest so much effort, just two see two such reviews to potentially doom my quest to obscurity.

What is your experience? Will players find and play it anyhow at 3.5 (I'm quite sure, if more players rate the quest, the rating will go much higher). Should I withdraw and start over?

chibidani · May 2013

my one quest has a 1/5 star rating with the comment "nothing" yet my average is still 4.3 or so because everyone else loves it. dw about a few 3 stars and withdrawing a quest doesn't reset the reveiws. For me personaly if I have one person who enjoyed my quests and waiting for the next then it was worth it to me in the long run. you'll get plays slowly :P dw about it. If you make high detailed quest You'll make people happy. Also Check out my Series and I'll check out yours :P. The Dragon Sisters is my campaign.

wuhsin · May 2013

My quests are at 3 and 3.5, they would be higher had a couple of people not one-starred me. I got a five star on each of them though, and most ratings were 3-4 stars. The good news is I got about 1000 in tips.

oneandonlydoc · May 2013

So, I ran this quest on a whim to see why people might have been giving you three stars, and I've got no idea why because the balance is good and it's a fun, relatively fast quest.

Naming the orcs in the hideout was a nice touch!

I thought that the dungeon levels were very well-designed with a good array of enemies and story points.

My only gripe is that while I was still on the surface, I accidentally fell into a hole at the top of a tower and couldn't get back out again. It's something that you might want to have a look at fixing.

You may also want to setup an actual exit from your ending map rather than having the "Hit F for the next map" triggering.

All in all, though, it was a fun little jaunt.

nevfe · May 2013

Not referencing your quest specifically (which I haven't run yet), but I think there's a slight problem with the star system being skewed towards the high end. So many (imho) 'average' quests get 4 or 5 stars that the true gems don't stand out.

I guess this is in part due to the fact that most people generally don't like to award less than 3 stars unless a quest is actually broken. Maybe things will get better if/when there is some way to categorise quests. Different people like different things.

vold316 · May 2013

I posted something similar yesterday, i think that we should be able to start reviewing after than playing at least 10 or 15 different foundry quests (probably that number is not enough either).

kurre2 · May 2013

It won't kill your quest. Don't worry. It all evens out in the end and one bad rewiew isn't enough to drag down your total score.

chinspinner · May 2013

Mine is averaging 4/5, but I get several reviews of 2/5 effectively saying things like, loot was bad, or this most recently: 'it took a lot longer than the displayed duration', does this person not realise that this is an average time and it is only his ineptitude that makes it last longer??

Those sort of reviews can't be avoided unfortunately.

almostcool · May 2013

chinspinner wrote: »

Mine is averaging 4/5, but I get several reviews of 2/5 effectively saying things like, loot was bad, or this most recently: 'it took a lot longer than the displayed duration', does this person not realise that this is an average time and it is only his ineptitude that makes it last longer??

Those sort of reviews can't be avoided unfortunately.

I've been getting a bunch of these too lately Chin. Frankly it's w/e to me. Just ignore dumb ratings with no feedback like that.

wuhsin · May 2013

almostcool wrote: »

I've been getting a bunch of these two lately Chin. Frankly it's w/e to me. Just ignore dumb ratings with no feedback like that.

I included the ones who did me that way in my Thank you posts. XD

nokturnel · May 2013

lol I added my Avatar to my quest as an FAQ to answer all the silly explanations for low ratings.

Cool thing about getting a bunch of 5 star reviews early is you'll be placed in the best list quicker, but you got to make sure you squash any bugs quickly and appeal to as many people as possible if you want your quest to be visible.

Your reviews will even out though to a decent rating depending on how well everyone liked it. I started out with like a 4.6 average due to Foundry Authors reviewing it first and now it averages 4.2 with like 1300 4 stars and 1000 5 stars due to it now being publicly consumed.

The hardest part is getting to the best list once there you should be golden on getting people to play it, but if you make a good enough quest I'm sure you could probably be featured by Cryptic which is just as good as being on the best list.

ovaltine74 · May 2013

I have reviewed three quests so far and given two threes and a four. The four I enjoyed. But I reserve fives for quests that blow me away. I haven't come across one yet. But I am sure I will. Going to be reviewing quite a few today. Will review yours if you want me to.

tripsofthrymr · May 2013

Thank you all for the encouraging words!

@oneandonlydoc: Thank you for running my quest. I'll put something in the tower well so that people can get back out. I'll also look into adding a proper exit.

@ovaltine74: I would appreciate your review. I think your rating scale is how it should be, but I agree with other commenters that people tend to give away 4's and 5's too easily.

@nokturnel: "The hardest part is getting to the best list"... exactly, I'm concerned that a few mediocre, early reviews will make it hard/impossible to reach the best list. We'll see.

kamaliicious · May 2013

The first x reviews set the tone for what your scores will be. People tend to vote in line with existing votes.

tripsofthrymr · May 2013

kamaliicious wrote: »

The first x reviews set the tone for what your scores will be. People tend to vote in line with existing votes.

Yes, I can imagine there is a bit of a heard mentality sometimes. That is another reason I'm a bit concerned about a few initial mediocre votes.

imivo · May 2013

I actually do not look at existing reviews or star ratings when I play a quest, but I don't utilize the in-game tools to find quests to play, either (I use the forum for that).

There is definitely the aspect that players interpret star ratings differently. For me, three stars mean that a quest was average, not breathtaking, but also not terrible or tedious. Four stars, for me, indicate that I quite enjoyed a quest and felt that it is above-average. Five stars are for quests that impress me with their design and their story, and how much effort has gone into them. I value storytelling and characters more than other elements, though, so that fifth star almost requires an interesting plot and solid writing.

kamaliicious · May 2013

tripsofthrymr wrote: »

Should I withdraw and start over?

I don't believe withdrawing resets the stars. I temporarily withdrew one of my quests after finding a way to badly break it when testing it live after adding a few things to it. Fixed the problem and republished, it had the same star ratings/number of ratings/reviews.

almostcool · May 2013

I've also gotten people who rate my quest 1-2 stars because they say I stack hard encounter mobs. I think there is one part where I have a plaguechanged maw and some ice golems and that is the only stacked encounter i have with hard difficulty. I also made it so while powerful they are EXTREMELY easy to dodge. So I can't help but equate those reviews with a L2play issue XD

wuhsin · May 2013

Haters gonna hate. Surprisingly my reviews aren't that terrible considering how many enemies I've made on these forums. lol

vold316 · May 2013

My quest has 18 reviews and 2 of them are rated with 1 star... one of them was my first review... :P
Unlucky?, my quest sucks?, i don't know. It's frustrating tho.

vaelic · May 2013

tripsofthrymr wrote: »

My first three reviews were 4/5 stars with lots of great suggestions (in the forum) for getting to 5/5 stars. I spent a bunch of time working on the suggestions and published my update.

This morning I found two new reviews, both 3/5, with barely any useful feedback.

The good news is, I'm now visible to general players. The bad news is, my average stars are 3.5/5.

Do the two mediocre reviews essentially kill my quest, since anonymous players have tons of new quests to choose from, many of which will be at or close to 5/5 stars (either because they are great, or just because they got friendly reviews)?

It's disheartening to invest so much effort, just two see two such reviews to potentially doom my quest to obscurity.

What is your experience? Will players find and play it anyhow at 3.5 (I'm quite sure, if more players rate the quest, the rating will go much higher). Should I withdraw and start over?

just tested it for you.

QUEST NOTES

- I love the first RPG bit with the house. LOVE IT!

- orc journal on floor. have it say something like (read journal) instead of just "f to interact"

- there was a book the big ogre fell on at the end that i couldnt interact with. it kept saying no line of sight because he fell on it

INCREDIBLY fun quest. just a few notes above but I thoroughly enjoyed this quest. I look forward to sequel.

Could you please play mine in return? my quest is in my signature

dzogen · May 2013

Don't lose sleep over a few bad reviews. This should make you feel better:

vold316 · May 2013

dzogen wrote: »

Don't lose sleep over a few bad reviews. This should make you feel better:

Thanks man, that actually helps. :P

tripsofthrymr · May 2013

vaelic wrote: »

Could you please play mine in return? my quest is in my signature

I already did :-) It was probably last night or yesterday. If I'm seeing things right, you gave me a 4-star review. What would have gotten me that final star from you?

Thanks!

harmor · May 2013

I will check your quest tonight and tell you what i think about it.
a player that is that passionate about his work means that he did everything possible to make it great.

thunderknuckles1 · May 2013

Maybe I'm too soft, but I tend to give 4 to 5 stars for quests that are obviously a decent try because, as a Foundry dungeon maker myself, I know just how much effort is involved in making even a short duration adventure. I have a whole new appreciation for devs and dungeon designers. Honestly, though, if a quest is very blatantly juvenile with enemies named, for example, Pimp Daddy Ho Slap and Pimp Daddy's Ho 1, etc. with a story line equally banal I'll almost certainly give it a 1.

almostcool · May 2013

thunderknuckles1 wrote: »

Maybe I'm too soft, but I tend to give 4 to 5 stars for quests that are obviously a decent try because, as a Foundry dungeon maker myself, I know just how much effort is involved in making even a short duration adventure. I have a whole new appreciation for devs and dungeon designers. Honestly, though, if a quest is very blatantly juvenile with enemies named, for example, Pimp Daddy Ho Slap and Pimp Daddy's Ho 1, etc. with a story line equally banal I'll almost certainly give it a 1.

Have you played a dungeon with these named characters because I find it entertaining that someone would even do that haha.

thunderknuckles1 · May 2013

Names very close to that. lol I can't exactly recall what they used, but it was definitely ghetto.

angrysprite · May 2013

For starters: ignore the ratings. Stars are a bad idea, actually. Words would be better. Most people don;t think of 3 stars as being *"average"* and the other other two above being "really good" and "exceptional" respectively and the lower two being "has promise" and "needs work" respectively.

That's how I view them.

Reviews are the important factor in these things and where you should focus your effort. They can provide valuable feedback. But don't go changing things around based on one or two reviews, either. My Blacklake Luskan quest is very sandbox and I have a a couple reviews earlier on that stated things like "couldn't find the XYZ and made it to the end but had to run all the way back to find the XYZ" etc. Well, this was a difficulty that only one player had.

However, if there is a recurring comment then definitely take it into consideration. My early reviews were good, and with some decent feedback. Then going in and cleaning things up based on those I now get very consistent glowing reviews. Even from people complaining there is too much reading (they admit I was clear in the description and they still gave me 4 stars).

As for number of plays... as soon as your quest becomes eligible for Daily Rewards, ignore this report. Because my quests are heavily story-based and not hack-n-slach types I get very few plays, but still average one new play every day or two.

The key here is to make the quest *you* want to play. Then those who like the same things you like will find it and play it. What's more important to me is t have people subscribe to me, and there are no reports (that I know of) that tell how many people subscribe to you.

To me, your subscriber numbers are far more important that the number of plays, star rating and a few lackluster reviews.

Make the quest for yourself. Pay attention to detail. Be anal with perfection. Then the players will come and they will salute you.

tripsofthrymr · May 2013

thunderknuckles1 wrote: »

Maybe I'm too soft, but I tend to give 4 to 5 stars for quests that are obviously a decent try because, as a Foundry dungeon maker myself, I know just how much effort is involved in making even a short duration adventure.

I got a few "4/5 but could easily be 5/5" reviews. As an early reviewer, you review something before it's in the finished state. It sucks that apparently you cannot go back and update your review once the author took your advice and improved the module. For that reason, I also tend to be a bit more lenient when the author is actively trying to improve.

meedacthunist · May 2013

Truth be told I would never consider a 3 star rating a mediocre one. For me 3 star means - "an average, not screwed work". Of course it could be better and 4 or 5 stars are more desirable. But being rated at 3/5 basically means that you did not catch your audience this time, maybe this quest was not of their particular liking, maybe they like something different - but also you did not <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> your audience.
Missed your target, but nobody died in the process.
Now, 2 or 1 star reviews are different thing.
Those are mediocre ratings.
But unless someone gives you a valid explanatory feedback with such rating, just ignore it and carry on.

Impact of Early Mediocre Reviews?

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