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My thoughts on the game so far.... F2P or P2W?
morpheas768
Member Posts: 0 Arc User
I remember when I was around level 18-20, and I was wondering why there were so many people calling this game P2W, but the mystery revealed itself later on.
Now I am level 60 with a full glory set, everything enchanted with normal runes, and I'm trying to find shards of enchantments by doing dungeons, and I realize that I need 64 of the same type of shard, which means that I have to get extremely lucky by winning the "Need-Greed" lottery AND get shards of the same type in the hopes of fusing them one day together, in order to get a Greater enchantment....BUT OH WAIT: I need to get those unreasonably overpriced coalescent wards first, and how do I do that? I just need to invoke every day, 7 days per week, for God Knows how many months or years, in order to get 21 of those blue wards.
And NO, you dont get a blue ward per week because its rare and you have a very low chance of getting it. Less than 15% to get a blue ward, might be even less than 10%.
My observations on the game so far:
- We have to pay for bags which offer inventory space (600 or 1000 zen), and when you get the bag, its so exciting, WOOHOO! /sarcasm
- When you die fighting the last boss in a dungeon, and your team is in rough shape, so they cant revive you, you have the option to pay to get revived by buying a scroll. Dont wanna pay? Go die then (nice hidden message from a video game).
- You can also buy teleportation scrolls to get back to the main area, which in other games are either a free spell (like a recall) or a cheap item you buy at regular vendors. Pay again.
- Do you want a fast mount like those 110% speed horses? Pay again, or have fun chasing a guy with a 4000 zen mount in PvP.
- Dont wanna pay any real money, and you want to be competitive and have a strong character? Prepare yourself for months of endless grinding which consists of usually doing the same dungeons over and over again, invoking every day, sell your loot, and rinse and repeat.
All of that while looking like HAMSTER, because there simply arent any fashion items in the game, and dont even bother choosing from the 3 sets there are at the store. Yes they look like HAMSTER as well.
In my opinion, PWI could have easily created a balanced, fair and interesting business model for their newest F2P game. A true F2P which isnt P2W and encourages people to buy stuff not because they absolutely need them, not because that real-money-stuff will give them an unfair advantage over other players, but because they look amazing and they want their characters to look cool, and prettier than others.
League of Legends is an amazing example of what a true F2P system SHOULD BE, and it is no wonder it is now the most played online game on the market (even though I dislike that game).
Neverwinter could have a zen store that only accomodates fashion items, cosmetics, customization packs for items, dyes, and all kinds of shiny pretty stuff, but nothing else. No matter how much money someone spent, they wouldnt be stronger than a "free player" but they could look waaaaaay more impressive. That way the game is fair and balanced to everyone, and those with money still get the satisfaction of being better in terms of appearance than most people.
Cryptic could have designed a whole system around items, mounts and companion customization, that no 2 Chestplates or 2 companions looked the same. And for people who dont want to pay, they will have to stay with the same plain vanilla looking stuff, so you'd still be tempted to buy something with real money, even if it is a crazy clown fashion hat.
Hell, they could make a "Fashion Foundry" that people can create their own from-scratch custom fashion items, in exchange for a fee of X dollars for using the fashion foundry.
PWI/Cryptic could have been creative, innovative and clever with their designs, making fashion items and all kinds of cosmetic stuff that no player can resist, there is NO NEED for this greedy P2W model that they have now.
But NO, who cares about that, right? Just make a bunch of necessities be available for either endless farming of AD or pay for it with real money. Let me tell you something: the people who get the founders packs they mostly do it for the companions, mounts etc, not as much for the millions of AD and items. This should be an indication that people are willing to spend money on stuff that improve their characters visually, rather than stuff that will make them stronger than others.
But why be creative and innovative when you can have people pay for stuff that should be free, right? It works for them apparently, because they do this in pretty much every one of their games, from what I've seen.
Anyways, this was my little rant/constructive but harsh criticism of the game for me. It may seem like flaming or worse, but it isnt meant this way. It is meant simply as an expression of my thoughts and opinions and should be taken lightly.
Thank you
Now I am level 60 with a full glory set, everything enchanted with normal runes, and I'm trying to find shards of enchantments by doing dungeons, and I realize that I need 64 of the same type of shard, which means that I have to get extremely lucky by winning the "Need-Greed" lottery AND get shards of the same type in the hopes of fusing them one day together, in order to get a Greater enchantment....BUT OH WAIT: I need to get those unreasonably overpriced coalescent wards first, and how do I do that? I just need to invoke every day, 7 days per week, for God Knows how many months or years, in order to get 21 of those blue wards.
And NO, you dont get a blue ward per week because its rare and you have a very low chance of getting it. Less than 15% to get a blue ward, might be even less than 10%.
My observations on the game so far:
- We have to pay for bags which offer inventory space (600 or 1000 zen), and when you get the bag, its so exciting, WOOHOO! /sarcasm
- When you die fighting the last boss in a dungeon, and your team is in rough shape, so they cant revive you, you have the option to pay to get revived by buying a scroll. Dont wanna pay? Go die then (nice hidden message from a video game).
- You can also buy teleportation scrolls to get back to the main area, which in other games are either a free spell (like a recall) or a cheap item you buy at regular vendors. Pay again.
- Do you want a fast mount like those 110% speed horses? Pay again, or have fun chasing a guy with a 4000 zen mount in PvP.
- Dont wanna pay any real money, and you want to be competitive and have a strong character? Prepare yourself for months of endless grinding which consists of usually doing the same dungeons over and over again, invoking every day, sell your loot, and rinse and repeat.
All of that while looking like HAMSTER, because there simply arent any fashion items in the game, and dont even bother choosing from the 3 sets there are at the store. Yes they look like HAMSTER as well.
In my opinion, PWI could have easily created a balanced, fair and interesting business model for their newest F2P game. A true F2P which isnt P2W and encourages people to buy stuff not because they absolutely need them, not because that real-money-stuff will give them an unfair advantage over other players, but because they look amazing and they want their characters to look cool, and prettier than others.
League of Legends is an amazing example of what a true F2P system SHOULD BE, and it is no wonder it is now the most played online game on the market (even though I dislike that game).
Neverwinter could have a zen store that only accomodates fashion items, cosmetics, customization packs for items, dyes, and all kinds of shiny pretty stuff, but nothing else. No matter how much money someone spent, they wouldnt be stronger than a "free player" but they could look waaaaaay more impressive. That way the game is fair and balanced to everyone, and those with money still get the satisfaction of being better in terms of appearance than most people.
Cryptic could have designed a whole system around items, mounts and companion customization, that no 2 Chestplates or 2 companions looked the same. And for people who dont want to pay, they will have to stay with the same plain vanilla looking stuff, so you'd still be tempted to buy something with real money, even if it is a crazy clown fashion hat.
Hell, they could make a "Fashion Foundry" that people can create their own from-scratch custom fashion items, in exchange for a fee of X dollars for using the fashion foundry.
PWI/Cryptic could have been creative, innovative and clever with their designs, making fashion items and all kinds of cosmetic stuff that no player can resist, there is NO NEED for this greedy P2W model that they have now.
But NO, who cares about that, right? Just make a bunch of necessities be available for either endless farming of AD or pay for it with real money. Let me tell you something: the people who get the founders packs they mostly do it for the companions, mounts etc, not as much for the millions of AD and items. This should be an indication that people are willing to spend money on stuff that improve their characters visually, rather than stuff that will make them stronger than others.
But why be creative and innovative when you can have people pay for stuff that should be free, right? It works for them apparently, because they do this in pretty much every one of their games, from what I've seen.
Anyways, this was my little rant/constructive but harsh criticism of the game for me. It may seem like flaming or worse, but it isnt meant this way. It is meant simply as an expression of my thoughts and opinions and should be taken lightly.
Thank you
Post edited by morpheas768 on
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So do I think this game is P2W? No, no I don't.
Edit: I will agree with the bags part. They could be easier to get. Like adding in smaller bags you can buy with gold.
If the game is staged in a way that it takes significant longer to earn the prizes legitimately than to pay on day 1... then it's P2W until non paying players start to catch up.
I've said it on these forums before and I'll say it again and I'll keep on saying it....
This game would have been perfect with a $15/month model with ONLY cosmetic content available for purchase if you wanted to look bad ***..(which everyone would buy that).
If you want them for PvP , well same problem . Once they add PvP stat armor , which of course they will . Once again a lot of AD to remove them . So really even if you get them runes now , you would be better served just saving them .
second that, i agree. Fix this.
1. Have fun farming AD to get 1000 zen, to buy a single coalescent ward. Yes, 1000 zen just for 1 ward that will be consumed on a single fusing process, to get a lesser enchantment. I'd like to see you get 21 of those wards to make a greater enchant one day. Its a joke, it really is.
2. Trying to get zen with AD that you get from grinding/farming only promotes greed, repetitive play and most importantly, exploits.
3. Some things (like the bags or wards) are so incredibly overpriced that its pretty ridiculous to get them without paying and without exploiting.
That is unfortunately very true. People made millions of AD in the first week of open beta. I hope at least some of them got banned in the "clean-up" of Sunday, that Cryptic did.
Get level 60 then say that.
This game is 100% pay to win. I can make a new account and instantly buy full t2/3 for 20$. and don't even talk about professions...it will take a normal player 53 days to max one. Or you can pay to win and do it in a few hours. The ONLY reason I still play is that you can't buy skill, that's why gear doesn't really matter in pvp.
Nope just lower the price on the zen items to League of legends ''stage'' and this game will go smooth for really really long time
I agree. The development staff do not deserve to be paid for this game. Why should there be any incentive for players to pay for their entertainment?
The incentives must verge on necessity at some point, otherwise you truly could play the game for free endlessly with all the benefits that paying players receive. Which of the requirements that veer into necessity differs from other games. Bags/Mounts/Etc. But cosmetics alone will not cut the cake for a sustainable model.
I personally wish the game was pay to play.
Paying to win to prove you have a bigger E-Peen in PvP is not what the game is about. In my 30+ years of gaming having all the best, being the most powerful was never the end game. Defeating the threat against the good people of the land was. In all that time I have maxed out my characters in exactly 2 games.Playing the games was fun. Grinding to be the Max Daddy was boring.
Because I dont like having an unfair disadvantage vs players who have a lot of cash to spend, since I am poor and cant afford to throw hundreds of dollars in video games.
I KNOW I can afford to buy a beautiful fashion chestplate or shirt, or companion though, if there is content to choose from. And since their model is so greedy and lacking of actual content at the moment, I am not encouraged to buy anything.
You having your own definition of what end game is doesn't change the fact of what end game is... just means you as a individual found a psychological trick to convince yourself otherwise.
But right now, you dont need pay to win, just play, because best "non cheaters" gears are about 15k and i have 12.6k without giving a HAMSTER about it, i dont grind, i dont play the AH... so anyone can get great gear just playing the game.
I dont play PvP, someday i will try it, but always had the impression of being a farm of stupid underage kids, and i hate kids... so i dont know how it works in PvP, but AFAIK is the same, inteligent playing and skill with a little of patience = money... so no, the game is PAY to speed things up, but not PAY TO WIN.
No, it is not. First of all, we are barely 3 weeks into soft release. We lack the data points to have any idea of how consistently people can get things like the vaunted blue ward. The OP said his rate is 15 percent, mine is 50. I'd bet we're both outliers, and the rate is somewhere in between.
There is nothing in the cash shop you have to have to play. Will people who spend money have some short term advantages? Yes. They will. Can you get those same advantages by in game grinding? Yes, you can. Will it take you longer? Sure, but even in a traditional, non cash shop, MMO, the same things happen. Some people nail the highest content fast, get the best gear. Others take weeks, months, or years to get the same gearing level. So, is an older style MMO unfair because some people get thier stuff first? They're better geared than you, they clear content easier. They do it with massive marathon sessions as things are released. They 'pay' with excess time commitments 'to win'. And in those games, people cry too. "It's not fair guild X has better stuff. Give it to everyone."
The reality is that the game is not P2W. Many *players* simply lack patience. "Rawr, I want the best right now!" they say. Take your time, have fun with the game, and if someone else is better *right now* just keep in mind you can catch up, and may even turn out to be a better player as you had to work more for it. I'm content to work for it, and in the end, I'll get there, too. Not as fast as some, no, but I accept that.
And to all of you spending in the cash shop, thanks! I've spent a little (enough for more character slots) myself, but the people spending more are helping the game drive forward. Game development isn't easy or free. Revenue helps.
How can you suck a bidding a negative amount on an item for 3 weeks ?
Sure the game is considered P2W cos you can practically buy all top end gear with RL cash. But then again, why is it such a big deal anyway? So what if other people buy their way out of it, it shouldn't let you stop enjoying the game. I myself prefer doing dungeons to acquire the gear rather than just forking out cash. Usually if I'm lucky, I get to sell a couple of epics acquired from dungeons for a handful of in-game currency which then allows me to buy other stuff.
I honestly don't see a problem with this model
This argument is coming from an easily refuted direction, you cannot "win" in an MMORPG by definition.
Its not lower prices, since their price to just buy a single character skin is actually kinda high. Its the fact that they made it so you can only get masteries and runes by playing the game and winning certain points that every player gets.
There are exp and IP boosts but that only gets your there slightly faster, but even then thats not good for you since if you level too fast you will be lacking in actual player skill, which means you'd be less experienced than others.
In short, the paying player just unlocks more characters and skins than free players, but it doesnt matter because the gameplay is the same and they dont get an unfair advantage over others. The game is still very competitive and fairly balanced like it should be.
And there are so many skins and pretty artwork to choose from, that you kinda have to try to keep your wallet in your pocket.
The same thing COULD happen for Neverwinter, and that is my whole point. And dont take my League of Legends example too seriously, there are other games, like Dota 2 for example. I mentioned LoL only for reference.
That's why I mentioned it being X2W because it was won... by exploits.
You say its 1 month, but in reality its 10 months or more for me.
And really, 10 million AD, REALLY? For 1 greater enchantment? Hell, NO. That is waaaaaaay too much time and effort wasted over something like this.
And just to think that if you pay you get that greater enchant in a few seconds, that means you are paying to save yourself thousands of hours grinding. If you want to call this "Pay to speed things up", then go ahead. But this speed up is so huge that the players grinding for that single use item are laughable to the ones who pay for it.
As for me, I wont even try. It just isnt worth it.
I am not complaining, nor am I expecting them to change the entire game to aim for a different model than the current one. This isnt even an option for them at this point.
Like the title says, these are my thoughts and opinions on the game so far. There is no way that everyone will agree with them, just like not everyone agrees with you.
What he said - I feel sorry for cryptic they do have a fair model for MMO's look at STO Free/Sub/Lifetime Only one annoyance must buy Lock Box Keys. Neverwinter Free Must buy Bags/Mount/Re spec/Enhancement Protection Etc. Oh yes Could Farm AD all day everyday till I got bored to death and unless like many others I find an exploit - Means NEVER get what I need unless I get my wallet out - Shame spoiled a potential long running excellent MMO that everybody want's to play not just those with Cash.
P.S. Don't get me wrong the combat and maps are excellent and it's well worth playing through to 60, only then is it unacceptable.
this is that awkward moment where some shows they have no idea wtf they're speaking about. You can unlock everything in League other then cosmetic changes for free.
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?228181-Security-Advisory-Note-on-Trolling-No-Detailing-Exploits!-(READ!)&p=3104972&viewfull=1#post3104972
You can use that IP to unlock any champion you wish if you have enough. Sure, you wont unlock every champion this way, since it would take forever, but there is a rotation of free heroes that changes every week. So technically you can play every champion there is without unlocking anything. If there is a champion you love and much have, you can unlock them permanently with IP.
Even players who pay money almost never buy a champion unless its on sale or a good bundle.
Seriously, dont even compare their F2P model to this one, LoL's true F2P model is the most successful there is at the moment.