Neverwinter is a pretty good game. A significant improvement over MMOs released previously. But yea, like most PW titles, its pay to win. But there is no forced PVP so you can be scrub and just have fun with the PVE and never pay a cent. LOL can also be grindy, but I think the game has a much lower grinding curve. I believe you can lose all your games for 60 hours and still get enough points to get the best character and spells. While in a PW game, it would take years if not a life time.
Again, LoL was just an example, just because it has been so successful. Like I already said, there are other true F2P games as well.
You having your own definition of what end game is doesn't change the fact of what end game is... just means you as a individual found a psychological trick to convince yourself otherwise.
Sorry? Playing in the PvP Arena isn't "The game". If that is what this game is about... That is pretty sad. The end of he game has always meant the end of the scripted game. You defeat the main bad guy, rescue the princess, Save the world. Game over. Extra content, PvP is not "The Game".
The reality is that the game is not P2W. Many *players* simply lack patience. "Rawr, I want the best right now!" they say. Take your time, have fun with the game, and if someone else is better *right now* just keep in mind you can catch up, and may even turn out to be a better player as you had to work more for it. I'm content to work for it, and in the end, I'll get there, too. Not as fast as some, no, but I accept that.
I love the idea that you just have to work “a little harder”. 27 hours of grinding mobs in a zone half my level for a single item off a crest merchant. I’m leveled past it by the time I can get it. It’s like one of those understatements you would use to trigger a laugh track.
For those of you more into analogies, it’s like having to run the 10 miles to work instead of take a car like your fellow workers. And when you get there, worn out, sweaty and late your friends say “Why are you so late? The road is there for you just like it is for us? It’s free to use! What’s wrong with you? You just need to try harder.”
It’s that sort of ridiculous gap in critical thinking that makes people look silly. But don’t take my word for it. You play the game, you visit the zones. While you are there, take a look at how much grinding you would have to do to get that snazzy item? Add it up.
I know there is a scary number of different currencies. Cryptic does that to distract you, so you don’t do any math and discover that gear piece takes about 30 hours of grinding, and you just leveled your character 5 levels in a few hours. By the time you can get that item you will be way past it.
As soon as the devs figure out how to keep diamonds from bouncing all over the landscape, they will begin the work of obsolescing those level 60 sets so that the grinders will drop behind the spenders again.
Put some neurons on the problem and the sleight of hand fades away. I can’t say it would have made me happy, but I would have had a lot more respect for the staff if they had just said “Yes you can play the game for free but there is lots of stuff you can’t do easily without paying real money and you will always be behind the people who do pay us huge amounts of money.”
But on the upside Cryptic, you are making it easier for the next MMO to succeed.
MLP Online could take you out by just advertising “The Power of Friendship is not for sale!”
I used 50 euro so far during my levelling. For mounts and such.
So far my CW has 11160 GS without an agument pet because i have none.
I have greater tenebrous and plaguefire on my t2 weapon. Tenebrous in my gemmed shirt. I have gemmed pants. Some rank 7 enchants. Some vorpals in bank.
In PvP i am top score always.
Did i pay for this? No. I just did delves. But this game is like a private server anyway. Like someone said, exploit to win.
For those of you more into analogies, it’s like having to run the 10 miles to work instead of take a car like your fellow workers. And when you get there, worn out, sweaty and late your friends say “Why are you so late? The road is there for you just like it is for us? It’s free to use! What’s wrong with you? You just need to try harder.”
You should have started running earlier if you wanted to run to work.
It's more like taking the bus to work, or renting a car. I did this while a Marine living off base once. Taking he bus I needed to leave 2 1/2 hours before Reveille. hat one week I had a rental car... took me 30 minutes o get to work or less. The cheap way took longer than paying for the convenience of having a car.
rapticorMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,078Arc User
edited May 2013
I see a lot of crying but not many examples of paying to win. Having more bags means you've won? Just doing dailies and selling a few things I've made more than enough in AD to purchase a bag from the zen store. Someone maxing a profession faster than me by spending AD is winning? What exactly have they won? Teleportation scrolls? Really? In most cases you're close to a zone door where you can go anywhere you want. I got a couple free scolls and I haven't bothered to use them. A total convenience item which you can buy with AD although I'd agree they are overpriced at 4,000 or whatever they are.
Some sure have a different definition of winning than I do. But what do I know I'm just playing the game and still having fun. That doesn't mean I think it's perfect as there are many things that need fixing but I don't feel any of the items in the store are necessities other than MAYBE a bag or two, which I still feel that's more convenience than necessity, and you can grind those out just by playing the game.. .Just like any other MMO in existence.
I used 50 euro so far during my levelling. For mounts and such.
So far my CW has 11160 GS without an agument pet because i have none.
I have greater tenebrous and plaguefire on my t2 weapon. Tenebrous in my gemmed shirt. I have gemmed pants. Some rank 7 enchants. Some vorpals in bank.
In PvP i am top score always.
Did i pay for this? No. I just did delves. But this game is like a private server anyway. Like someone said, exploit to win.
so you spent apx 65$ us just leveling a single character up for a mount and basic stuff?
Is this supposed to somehow make me feel that this game is not pay2win?
personally if i spend 65$ i expect something significant... like a full featured game with at least a couple months of service paid for.
what really puts me off is you make it sound as if you wanted to pay to win, there is so much more you could buy...
i can't help but feel that if someone thinks that spending 65$ leveling a single character with even more to buy is acceptable that they have more money than sense.
Personally at those rates I will never take this game seriously, ever. If I could spend maybe 15-20$ and have a fully functioning character I wouldn't mind so much, but the prices being discussed in this thread are ridiculous.
I would go buy a couple brand new titles before I spent 100$ tricking out a single character in this game. That's just common sense to me.
It's a shame really cause the game is fun and could be great, if only it were sub. I'll be moving on soon, but until then I'll suck their bandwidth and sell HAMSTER in game for absurd amounts of real dollars without spending any of my own. Their loss.
I love the idea that you just have to work “a little harder”. 27 hours of grinding mobs in a zone half my level for a single item off a crest merchant. I’m leveled past it by the time I can get it. It’s like one of those understatements you would use to trigger a laugh track.
For those of you more into analogies, it’s like having to run the 10 miles to work instead of take a car like your fellow workers. And when you get there, worn out, sweaty and late your friends say “Why are you so late? The road is there for you just like it is for us? It’s free to use! What’s wrong with you? You just need to try harder.”
It’s that sort of ridiculous gap in critical thinking that makes people look silly. But don’t take my word for it. You play the game, you visit the zones. While you are there, take a look at how much grinding you would have to do to get that snazzy item? Add it up.
I know there is a scary number of different currencies. Cryptic does that to distract you, so you don’t do any math and discover that gear piece takes about 30 hours of grinding, and you just leveled your character 5 levels in a few hours. By the time you can get that item you will be way past it.
As soon as the devs figure out how to keep diamonds from bouncing all over the landscape, they will begin the work of obsolescing those level 60 sets so that the grinders will drop behind the spenders again.
Put some neurons on the problem and the sleight of hand fades away. I can’t say it would have made me happy, but I would have had a lot more respect for the staff if they had just said “Yes you can play the game for free but there is lots of stuff you can’t do easily without paying real money and you will always be behind the people who do pay us huge amounts of money.”
But on the upside Cryptic, you are making it easier for the next MMO to succeed.
MLP Online could take you out by just advertising “The Power of Friendship is not for sale!”
I see a lot of crying but not many examples of paying to win. Having more bags means you've won? Just doing dailies and selling a few things I've made more than enough in AD to purchase a bag from the zen store. Someone maxing a profession faster than me by spending AD is winning? What exactly have they won? Teleportation scrolls? Really? In most cases you're close to a zone door where you can go anywhere you want. I got a couple free scolls and I haven't bothered to use them. A total convenience item which you can buy with AD although I'd agree they are overpriced at 4,000 or whatever they are.
Some sure have a different definition of winning than I do. But what do I know I'm just playing the game and still having fun. That doesn't mean I think it's perfect as there are many things that need fixing but I don't feel any of the items in the store are necessities other than MAYBE a bag or two, which I still feel that's more convenience than necessity, and you can grind those out just by playing the game.. .Just like any other MMO in existence.
People have already explained many times what Pay 2 Win is.
But in case you missed it, P2W is a term used for games that give paying customers an unfair advantage over people who play for free. That advantage means your character is usually stronger than other people, OR that it gets you really strong really fast, OR that it helps you beat certain things in the game with ease.
Having more bags isnt an unfair advantage, although bags should be a cheap commodity, not a 10$ piece.
Being able to get self-revived again and again and eventually solo beating the final boss in the final dungeon in the game is the literal definition of Pay 2 Win.
There is a video on YT which demonstrates how an unskilled trickster rogue is able to solo beat the final boss by himself, by buying 30+ scrolls of life, if that doesnt convince you, thats fine.
For me though, this is pretty low, unfair, and not fun at all.
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rapticorMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,078Arc User
edited May 2013
That still doesn't sound like winning to me. Why do I care what some rogue is doing? Especially if they are doing it solo. It has no impact on me.
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nemesis788450Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
never needed to buy a bag
never needed to buy a back-to-live-scroll
playing since the game went open but only on the weekends, have 6 green wards and 2 blue so far as well as full t2 gear - and im a casual player...the only thing i spent money on was the stone golem companion (which was a complete waste cause the cleric is the best)
so...dont really see the issue
i really dont understand why people are okay with paying 60 box + 180 dollars a year just to play a game + cosmetics, when i can pay absolutly nothing for the game and only cosmetics (since you can get nearly all ad u need in game)
and as rapticor says, why is it relevant for me what a single rogue does? i can do the same with a group and have fun doing so...and honestly, if a guy wants to spend 30 bucks just to win a pve fight in a game...let him have it and thank him that he supports the game and my futures expansions i get to play...
I've said it on these forums before and I'll say it again and I'll keep on saying it....
This game would have been perfect with a $15/month model with ONLY cosmetic content available for purchase if you wanted to look bad ***..(which everyone would buy that).
So buy $15 worth of Zen every month and there you are.... instasubscription model.
There's very little in the Zen Store itself that's not cosmetic tbh but I agree with what some others have said the prices could benefit from a tweak.
So buy $15 worth of Zen every month and there you are.... instasubscription model.
There's very little in the Zen Store itself that's not cosmetic tbh but I agree with what some others have said the prices could benefit from a tweak.
First of all $15 in monthly Zen will surely not buy you much. The pricing on the Zen store is outrageous. Hopefully that will be adjusted down as statistics are gathered. As far as most of the items being "cosmetic" I just cant agree. Items that allow you to fully heal, resurrect healed in place, faster mounts, item enhancements, crafting enhancement none would be cosmetic.
Despite bugs and exploits I would have already bought the highest priced founders package IF the CS was only cosmetic. I love this game its a ton of fun. I wouldnt even be oppposed to a monthly sub. I like to support good business. I do not however like to get sucked into micro transactions to remain competitive that end up being 3 times what a sub would cost.
Comments
I love the idea that you just have to work “a little harder”. 27 hours of grinding mobs in a zone half my level for a single item off a crest merchant. I’m leveled past it by the time I can get it. It’s like one of those understatements you would use to trigger a laugh track.
For those of you more into analogies, it’s like having to run the 10 miles to work instead of take a car like your fellow workers. And when you get there, worn out, sweaty and late your friends say “Why are you so late? The road is there for you just like it is for us? It’s free to use! What’s wrong with you? You just need to try harder.”
It’s that sort of ridiculous gap in critical thinking that makes people look silly. But don’t take my word for it. You play the game, you visit the zones. While you are there, take a look at how much grinding you would have to do to get that snazzy item? Add it up.
I know there is a scary number of different currencies. Cryptic does that to distract you, so you don’t do any math and discover that gear piece takes about 30 hours of grinding, and you just leveled your character 5 levels in a few hours. By the time you can get that item you will be way past it.
As soon as the devs figure out how to keep diamonds from bouncing all over the landscape, they will begin the work of obsolescing those level 60 sets so that the grinders will drop behind the spenders again.
Put some neurons on the problem and the sleight of hand fades away. I can’t say it would have made me happy, but I would have had a lot more respect for the staff if they had just said “Yes you can play the game for free but there is lots of stuff you can’t do easily without paying real money and you will always be behind the people who do pay us huge amounts of money.”
But on the upside Cryptic, you are making it easier for the next MMO to succeed.
MLP Online could take you out by just advertising “The Power of Friendship is not for sale!”
This would at best be Pay 2 Win Faster, which is the very ESSENCE of F2P.
So far my CW has 11160 GS without an agument pet because i have none.
I have greater tenebrous and plaguefire on my t2 weapon. Tenebrous in my gemmed shirt. I have gemmed pants. Some rank 7 enchants. Some vorpals in bank.
In PvP i am top score always.
Did i pay for this? No. I just did delves. But this game is like a private server anyway. Like someone said, exploit to win.
It's more like taking the bus to work, or renting a car. I did this while a Marine living off base once. Taking he bus I needed to leave 2 1/2 hours before Reveille. hat one week I had a rental car... took me 30 minutes o get to work or less. The cheap way took longer than paying for the convenience of having a car.
Some sure have a different definition of winning than I do. But what do I know I'm just playing the game and still having fun. That doesn't mean I think it's perfect as there are many things that need fixing but I don't feel any of the items in the store are necessities other than MAYBE a bag or two, which I still feel that's more convenience than necessity, and you can grind those out just by playing the game.. .Just like any other MMO in existence.
so you spent apx 65$ us just leveling a single character up for a mount and basic stuff?
Is this supposed to somehow make me feel that this game is not pay2win?
personally if i spend 65$ i expect something significant... like a full featured game with at least a couple months of service paid for.
what really puts me off is you make it sound as if you wanted to pay to win, there is so much more you could buy...
i can't help but feel that if someone thinks that spending 65$ leveling a single character with even more to buy is acceptable that they have more money than sense.
Personally at those rates I will never take this game seriously, ever. If I could spend maybe 15-20$ and have a fully functioning character I wouldn't mind so much, but the prices being discussed in this thread are ridiculous.
I would go buy a couple brand new titles before I spent 100$ tricking out a single character in this game. That's just common sense to me.
But in case you missed it, P2W is a term used for games that give paying customers an unfair advantage over people who play for free. That advantage means your character is usually stronger than other people, OR that it gets you really strong really fast, OR that it helps you beat certain things in the game with ease.
Having more bags isnt an unfair advantage, although bags should be a cheap commodity, not a 10$ piece.
Being able to get self-revived again and again and eventually solo beating the final boss in the final dungeon in the game is the literal definition of Pay 2 Win.
There is a video on YT which demonstrates how an unskilled trickster rogue is able to solo beat the final boss by himself, by buying 30+ scrolls of life, if that doesnt convince you, thats fine.
For me though, this is pretty low, unfair, and not fun at all.
never needed to buy a back-to-live-scroll
playing since the game went open but only on the weekends, have 6 green wards and 2 blue so far as well as full t2 gear - and im a casual player...the only thing i spent money on was the stone golem companion (which was a complete waste cause the cleric is the best)
so...dont really see the issue
i really dont understand why people are okay with paying 60 box + 180 dollars a year just to play a game + cosmetics, when i can pay absolutly nothing for the game and only cosmetics (since you can get nearly all ad u need in game)
and as rapticor says, why is it relevant for me what a single rogue does? i can do the same with a group and have fun doing so...and honestly, if a guy wants to spend 30 bucks just to win a pve fight in a game...let him have it and thank him that he supports the game and my futures expansions i get to play...
So buy $15 worth of Zen every month and there you are.... instasubscription model.
There's very little in the Zen Store itself that's not cosmetic tbh but I agree with what some others have said the prices could benefit from a tweak.
First of all $15 in monthly Zen will surely not buy you much. The pricing on the Zen store is outrageous. Hopefully that will be adjusted down as statistics are gathered. As far as most of the items being "cosmetic" I just cant agree. Items that allow you to fully heal, resurrect healed in place, faster mounts, item enhancements, crafting enhancement none would be cosmetic.
Despite bugs and exploits I would have already bought the highest priced founders package IF the CS was only cosmetic. I love this game its a ton of fun. I wouldnt even be oppposed to a monthly sub. I like to support good business. I do not however like to get sucked into micro transactions to remain competitive that end up being 3 times what a sub would cost.