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Understanding NW PVP Balance
tenkuro
Member Posts: 0 Arc User
Hi everyone,
I am a Trickster Rogue. I am a culprit of crying about imbalance in pvp and thinking that certain people used exploit because it was such a huge disparity in some pvp matches, especially for 1 v 1 fights. I hope this post will give everyone a better understanding of the balance of pvp in this game:
It is all about your level and the gears you wear. At level 60, it is all about your gears. It is not because one class is superior to another because every single class can kill another class if they all wore the same exact tiered gears which includes enchants and non-combat companions.
I will give you an example that you will notice yourself if you paid attention:
Last night, when I was level 54, I went up against a GF and he completely destroyed me everytime in 1 v 1. He would knock me down, take my health down to half, knock me down again, take my health down to under 10%, then finish me off with a lunge. A few hours later, I got to level 59 and upgraded my gears and came across the very same GF in another arena pvp match. This time around, I went into stealth and made sure I had my daily available, knocked him down with my throwing daggers, used my daily on him, then used a burst encounter, and then teleported behind him to finish him off. As you can see, I went from being destroyed to destroying the very same opponent, but the outcome depended on my level and gear.
Another example involves fighting a cleric that had an astral shield (blue shield) with hallowed ground build (makes you invincible for 15 seconds). This time around, it's a level 60 battle. When I first got to level 60, I hadn't gotten my pvp weapons yet and was still using the level 58 weapons. I came across a cleric and was unable to break through the blue shield. No matter what I tried, even with my daily skill, I could not do enough damage through the blue shield to out damage his heal. After about 6 pvp matches, I finally had enough glory to get my main level 60 weapon. Later in the night, I entered the pvp arena and saw that the cleric I had trouble against earlier was on the opposite team. I said to my teammates... "fkkk.... op cleric with the broken blue shield." I was extremely surprised to find that I had no trouble at all breaking through the blue shield and if timed correctly with my daily and lashing strike, I was able to kill the cleric. As you can see, getting a new weapon completely flipped the outcome.
So the next time you think that a TR or CW, or GF, or GWF, or Cleric is overpowered, just stop and think about your gears and the possibility that the other person might have much better gears than you.
I have a feeling that Cryptic did extensive testing with all the classes in 1 v 1 and team fights using the same tiered games for all classes and did their balancing in that matter. This is probably why our threads of pvp balance goes ignored because honestly, we're all biased because we always want the class we play to be superior.
I am a Trickster Rogue. I am a culprit of crying about imbalance in pvp and thinking that certain people used exploit because it was such a huge disparity in some pvp matches, especially for 1 v 1 fights. I hope this post will give everyone a better understanding of the balance of pvp in this game:
It is all about your level and the gears you wear. At level 60, it is all about your gears. It is not because one class is superior to another because every single class can kill another class if they all wore the same exact tiered gears which includes enchants and non-combat companions.
I will give you an example that you will notice yourself if you paid attention:
Last night, when I was level 54, I went up against a GF and he completely destroyed me everytime in 1 v 1. He would knock me down, take my health down to half, knock me down again, take my health down to under 10%, then finish me off with a lunge. A few hours later, I got to level 59 and upgraded my gears and came across the very same GF in another arena pvp match. This time around, I went into stealth and made sure I had my daily available, knocked him down with my throwing daggers, used my daily on him, then used a burst encounter, and then teleported behind him to finish him off. As you can see, I went from being destroyed to destroying the very same opponent, but the outcome depended on my level and gear.
Another example involves fighting a cleric that had an astral shield (blue shield) with hallowed ground build (makes you invincible for 15 seconds). This time around, it's a level 60 battle. When I first got to level 60, I hadn't gotten my pvp weapons yet and was still using the level 58 weapons. I came across a cleric and was unable to break through the blue shield. No matter what I tried, even with my daily skill, I could not do enough damage through the blue shield to out damage his heal. After about 6 pvp matches, I finally had enough glory to get my main level 60 weapon. Later in the night, I entered the pvp arena and saw that the cleric I had trouble against earlier was on the opposite team. I said to my teammates... "fkkk.... op cleric with the broken blue shield." I was extremely surprised to find that I had no trouble at all breaking through the blue shield and if timed correctly with my daily and lashing strike, I was able to kill the cleric. As you can see, getting a new weapon completely flipped the outcome.
So the next time you think that a TR or CW, or GF, or GWF, or Cleric is overpowered, just stop and think about your gears and the possibility that the other person might have much better gears than you.
I have a feeling that Cryptic did extensive testing with all the classes in 1 v 1 and team fights using the same tiered games for all classes and did their balancing in that matter. This is probably why our threads of pvp balance goes ignored because honestly, we're all biased because we always want the class we play to be superior.
Post edited by tenkuro on
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Comments
why are you to much care about balance? Are you scare for something?
people are complaining because top gear vs top gear you can get 1 shot
as a GWF although i cannot 1 shot some 1 i can kill a rogue in my combo, a rogue can also kill me in his combo (if crits work out both ways)
GWF = pvp gear + t2 jewelry level 5 and 6 enchantments with a decent weapon enchantment
Or maybe they scare for the balance comming, someone gonna take there place! So they will never think tht they a skilled player anymore!!
Only problems I really see there is CW dodge, which should be nerfed to be equal to rouge/cleric dodge (not 3 times + very fast recharge).
Plus generally the matchmaking. Only teams with equal amounts of clerics are fair. Cleric vs no cleric usually ends in the team with the cleric winning (duh), same with 2 clerics.
GF and GWF, if played properly, also have a role in PvP. GFs are superb at holding points (while your DPS arrives) and can do 1v1 easily. GWF are good for harassment, and if with good gear they are also not that easy to take down.
CW/TR/DC are good anyway.
Also, lol you can't get one shot with top gier. Unless you lost hp before or you are stupid and have 0 defense.
Another Rogue here
Wait, GWF can't solo 5 people at once? Buff immediately!
Sorry, I thought we were having a discussion here, but apparently you have already started name calling so this thread won't go well.
You can get one shot with top gear.
Because you're bad and don't know what top gear is. Have you ever seen top gear? You cannot get 1 shotted with the best gear ingame.
T2 Epic set with +7 enchants + non-combat companion. Why don't you show us a screenshot of your gears? I bet you don't even have 10k gear score.
I'm at 11k, though I suppose you can avoid the one shot with immunity enchant? That I'm not sure of.
Show us a screenshot of your 11k gear score. There is no skill in the game that can 1 shot people if your gear score is the same as the person attacking you. Do you even know how Shocking Execution works? It does damage based on how much health the person has left. If you have full health, it barely takes your health down to about half IF your gear score is the same as the rogue that's attacking you. I've never ever been 1 shotted when I know I have the best gears possible for my bracket, or close to it. Haven't been 1 shotted as a level 60 yet either on GWF and TR.
I'm not posting a screen shot. If you really want to see, just go to the gateway and look it up. My characters name is Betty White@zingarbage. It will be somewhere in the range of 10.5 to 11.3k. I'm not sure what gear I have on currently, been leveling an alt.
I do understand how shocking execution works and I'm telling you it can one shot.
P.S. what is your characters name, I'd love to see what your score is.
How do you search the gateway for other characters, I can only log in and see my own toons.
You probably got 1 shotted by a heavy cash shopper or one of those exploiters that got tons of cats.
PvP is mostly okay, some things probably need to be fine tuned like shocking execution and some enchants. But the real question is.. is it fun?
I'm curious to why you think shocking execution needs to be tuned when CW has a daily that does almost the same damage on top of their Hard CC compared to Rogue's Soft CC. GWF has a daily that does 2/3 the damage of Shocking Execution at full health because shocking execution does more damage when the enemy has lower health. Even guardian fighter has a burst damage that does half of what shocking execution does on top of their high defense and stun abilities.
Rogue = 1 daily burst, 1 encounter burst, soft cc
CW = 1 daily burst, 1 encounter enfeeble, hard cc
GF = 1 daily burst, 1 encounter semi-burst, hard cc
GWF = 1 daily burst, 1 encounter semi-burst, hard cc
Cleric = 1 daily immunity, 1 encounter shield, hard cc
Overall, it's not really a good design, so keep in mind that even if it is balanced it may not be fun nor healthy. That's why I said 'probably'.
WTF? How is it avoidable if you're using your hard CC and your opponent is stuck in the air? Nobody can avoid Ice Knife if the CW knows what he/she is doing. wow......
Do you know why the Rogue's daily, shocking execution cannot miss? Because rogues do not have a hard cc like all the other classes. Rogues can only silence. No stun. No knock down. No Root.
And GOOD players can react fast enough to CC the rogue that's doing shocking execution. Numerous times where I knocked a rogue down while he's trying to use his daily on me. It's pretty **** obvious when he's flying in the air with his two daggers about to pounce on you.
Just you know, right now GF is absolutely no gimp in PvP: Conquerors can have that much power that combined with their physical resistance and their gap-close abilities can be very very nasty.
Furthermore, the only way a GWF can win in 1vs1 a rogue is for the rogue being undergeared or not as skilled. Same for CW... At the moment the only two classes that can oneshot people in PvP are these two with their dailies.
You really think, you should be able to take focused fire from a whole group ?
Misunderstanding my post. I wasn't saying any class was superior to another. I was trying to state that because of my upgrade in gears and levels, I went from being dominated by a player to dominating the very same player.
IT IS ALL ABOUT THE GEARS!
When you say Shocking Execution cannot miss you mean cannot be dodged? coz i have dodged shocking execution numerous times already u just need to know the skill animation and when to dodge.
but do i think rogues are overpowered? not even close.
Just because people are learning the new style of PvP, get used to their classes and cant recognise animations/moves yet, doesnt mean they should start shouting OP immediatly.
tbh burst-build classes are in fact the weakest.. learn how to avoid their big 1-2 spells and boom.. hes like dead meat.. and this counts for any class in my opinion.
I would say the same as OP and have to agree.. give it time.. we will see how it adjusts when people know what they are doing.
(not saying im great at pvping since im sure there are enough players better then me (or at least better geared XD XD))
Elf Control Wizard - Dragon
As a lvl 60 cleric with a 6k gearscore, I can say firmly I suffer no such issues. His execution daily may hit for 20-25k, but I'll live unless I'm under focus fire. I've gone 1v1 against CW's and TR's and unless they are in top T2 gear I can usually say I'm roughly equal... Though I have no where near the killing power. I'm also setup as a healer/buffer not one of those fancier crit builds.
Because you know you always have time to finish that combo right? And no one else is targeting you let alone being hunted by another CW. The very thought of it escapes your brain especially laughable since you talk about 'understanding PvP through TEAM play'. Don't be an id- oh wait, you already did in so many threads previously.
The CCs, while they don't suffer from diminishing returns, are not that long either. You need a rather decent chain to lock down a player which requires the presence of two players. If you did a CW vs CW duel there is a window of escape .
If internal contradictions had weight you would have been long crushed before the rest of humanity has succumbed. Why are you talking about rogues in a vacuum? Do you realize that daze can be just as effective as a stun if not more? It translates to : You cannot dodge or use abilities. Which means free hits.
I am pretty sure that every player here, good and the bad, have been killed by shocking execution. Because you know, CCs are always up when you nee- oh wait...
There is possibly one player in the entire player base that has at 60 not died to a Shocking Execution who has had his or her CC up at every instance a rogue would do Shocking Execution and timed it perfectly to catch the rogue regardless of latency or any other issu- get the **** out, you **** subhuman.
The point is that Shocking Execution is an outlier and may need to be looked at. On the CW side I wouldn't even talk about Ice Knife since it alone isn't that special but rather Ray of Enfeeblement is the core issue something which your brain cannot seem to comprehend.