Your feeling is wrong. You should play the other classes as well in PvP before giving feedback like you did.
Just you know, right now GF is absolutely no gimp in PvP: Conquerors can have that much power that combined with their physical resistance and their gap-close abilities can be very very nasty.
Furthermore, the only way a GWF can win in 1vs1 a rogue is for the rogue being undergeared or not as skilled. Same for CW... At the moment the only two classes that can oneshot people in PvP are these two with their dailies.
GWF shouldn't win a 1v1 fight against a rogue in any situation where they are equally geared and equally skilled. The rogue is the single target damage class. That's is it purpose and it is working as intended. However, a skilled PvP team should never find themselves in 1v1 situations to begin with, and your GWF shines in group combat. Or would...if you knew what you were doing.
A rich rogue nowadays is fit company for any gentleman; and the world, my dear, hath not such a contempt for roguery as you imagine. - John HAMSTER
I am a Trickster Rogue. I am a culprit of crying about imbalance in pvp and thinking that certain people used exploit because it was such a huge disparity in some pvp matches, especially for 1 v 1 fights. I hope this post will give everyone a better understanding of the balance of pvp in this game:
It is all about your level and the gears you wear. At level 60, it is all about your gears. It is not because one class is superior to another because every single class can kill another class if they all wore the same exact tiered gears which includes enchants and non-combat companions.
I will give you an example that you will notice yourself if you paid attention:
Last night, when I was level 54, I went up against a GF and he completely destroyed me everytime in 1 v 1. He would knock me down, take my health down to half, knock me down again, take my health down to under 10%, then finish me off with a lunge. A few hours later, I got to level 59 and upgraded my gears and came across the very same GF in another arena pvp match. This time around, I went into stealth and made sure I had my daily available, knocked him down with my throwing daggers, used my daily on him, then used a burst encounter, and then teleported behind him to finish him off. As you can see, I went from being destroyed to destroying the very same opponent, but the outcome depended on my level and gear.
Another example involves fighting a cleric that had an astral shield (blue shield) with hallowed ground build (makes you invincible for 15 seconds). This time around, it's a level 60 battle. When I first got to level 60, I hadn't gotten my pvp weapons yet and was still using the level 58 weapons. I came across a cleric and was unable to break through the blue shield. No matter what I tried, even with my daily skill, I could not do enough damage through the blue shield to out damage his heal. After about 6 pvp matches, I finally had enough glory to get my main level 60 weapon. Later in the night, I entered the pvp arena and saw that the cleric I had trouble against earlier was on the opposite team. I said to my teammates... "fkkk.... op cleric with the broken blue shield." I was extremely surprised to find that I had no trouble at all breaking through the blue shield and if timed correctly with my daily and lashing strike, I was able to kill the cleric. As you can see, getting a new weapon completely flipped the outcome.
So the next time you think that a TR or CW, or GF, or GWF, or Cleric is overpowered, just stop and think about your gears and the possibility that the other person might have much better gears than you.
I have a feeling that Cryptic did extensive testing with all the classes in 1 v 1 and team fights using the same tiered games for all classes and did their balancing in that matter. This is probably why our threads of pvp balance goes ignored because honestly, we're all biased because we always want the class we play to be superior.
I am glad that you have finally seen the light Tenkuro, I too am impressed with the class balance.
I would note though that when my CW hit sixty I had the glory to buy all the pvp gear, but my CW was still relatively much weaker than when I was leveling- and I never optimised my leveling gear-I just relied on the scaling. I don't know why I feel so much weaker at level cap, although I don't have all the best enchants/stones etc so maybe that is the reason.
GWF shouldn't win a 1v1 fight against a rogue in any situation where they are equally geared and equally skilled. The rogue is the single target damage class. That's is it purpose and it is working as intended. However, a skilled PvP team should never find themselves in 1v1 situations to begin with, and your GWF shines in group combat. Or would...if you knew what you were doing.
I've seen lvl 60 GWF's that can lay out a whole team, let alone take people on 1v1. Stuns and knockbacks/downs, while resisting damage once they hit unstoppable... It can be crazy.
Since PvP is by far the easiest way to build up gear for lvl 60 content (much faster than trying to farm it since I can PvP for most of a day and gear up), I've been playing a lot of PvP and almost all of it in PUGs. The only class I think that could use some damage buffing love is the DC, the hope of the DC is to simply outlast the other player in 99% of cases. Which is why the hate for or defensive skills is crazy talk... it's all we have. It's not like we can sit in our little Astral Shields and nuke you into the ground. I can at best shove you away (And how some TR's can seem to never be affected by that push amazes me) or hit you with a daily that has knockback or knockdown (though flame pillar often misses for the knockup/knockdown part and they simply take damage).
Anymore I wish they'd just have everyone step into PVP and become identical classes with the exact same gear and abilities. People enjoy trying to get an advantage through gear etc, but then come on the forums and whine about any perceived disadvantage.
Games trying to balance PVP and use Character Classes are trying to perform the impossible, its an oxymoron. Character classes are specialists in a particular role, and shouldn't be balanced with other classes that perform different roles. The damage dealer will always have an advantage over the healer, unless you give the healer a ton of damage too, since you can't heal something to death, and then you have to give the damage class healing to compensate, so the eventuality is homogenization. Just look at WoW classes now, and how much self healing and dps the tanks have, and how much survivability and dps the healers have, and how much durability and self healing the dps have...see? If you are using character classes, they are meant to be specialists working as a team, owning their role and compensating for what the other classes can't do, and vice versa.
Experience in other MMO's has taught us that this doesn't work in PVP, as advantages that specialists have in their role are always considered by forum whining pvp'ers to be OP, then they call for nerfs, and the devs eventually cave and homogenization of the classes is the end result. PVP and class based rpgs should never ever...EVER mix, they are anathema to each other. Just turn anyone joining pvp matches into the same standard bot, so no one can complain about anything being imbalanced, and the rest of us enjoying pve with specialist classes that stand out significantly in their role can be left alone.
Hello all...
Im a 60 lvl GWF trying to gear up with the pvp items. only have 8.6k GS so i still have long way i bieleve.
Theres no real balance in pvp cause when a TR comes and hits me 12k dmg ( half my HP) and then 1 more hit lets say 5k how am i going to fight back after this when im left with 7k Hp?Yea ok hes single target dpser but realy this is redicilus...and at 1 vs 1 if the rogue doesnt have hes daily hes dead, the only thing he can do is run... i've seen it lots of times. Maybe nerf a bit this huge dmg or DELETE that stupid silence that lasts or ever? or think a way to give a chance to the other classes to live more than 3 sec? Hes must kill ppl fast cause thats hes job but maybe think that theres something thats called armor in this game so wtf i have to take the same dmg as the CW that has way less than me? Then we have the CW that i have to run to go near him so he pushes me back..then i run again and then he picks me up in the air and after that theres no stamina to catch him and even if i had stamina he could blink like 3 times so we can forget the fact that i will ever catch him. And ofc dont forget that if he has hes daily he hits me more than 10 dmg so im kinda dead before i go near him. And think that hes not a PURE Mage..hes a Control Wizard. Maybe lets say nerf a bit that blink or that OMG range that hits you from the other side of the map?Until i go near him i allready lose more than half of my hp.
I like playing my GWF but realy this kind of pvp makes me not wanna play him or make a class that i dont like so i wont get 2 shot every time. ( and please dont say ..dont pvp or something else that stupid). The game is nice but still it has lots of things that need to be fixed. Start with GWF daily that its the only daily that they can dodge...miss my hit ok but miss with the daily ..yea ok.
Thank you and sorry for any mistakes..english is not my main language.
And something last..just went out of pvp arena..Upstoppable up and the TR hit me with 13k dmg..now HTF is this balance with a skill that i take me 50% less dmg? pff
Anymore I wish they'd just have everyone step into PVP and become identical classes with the exact same gear and abilities. People enjoy trying to get an advantage through gear etc, but then come on the forums and whine about any perceived disadvantage.
Games trying to balance PVP and use Character Classes are trying to perform the impossible, its an oxymoron. Character classes are specialists in a particular role, and shouldn't be balanced with other classes that perform different roles. The damage dealer will always have an advantage over the healer, unless you give the healer a ton of damage too, since you can't heal something to death, and then you have to give the damage class healing to compensate, so the eventuality is homogenization. Just look at WoW classes now, and how much self healing and dps the tanks have, and how much survivability and dps the healers have, and how much durability and self healing the dps have...see? If you are using character classes, they are meant to be specialists working as a team, owning their role and compensating for what the other classes can't do, and vice versa.
Experience in other MMO's has taught us that this doesn't work in PVP, as advantages that specialists have in their role are always considered by forum whining pvp'ers to be OP, then they call for nerfs, and the devs eventually cave and homogenization of the classes is the end result. PVP and class based rpgs should never ever...EVER mix, they are anathema to each other. Just turn anyone joining pvp matches into the same standard bot, so no one can complain about anything being imbalanced, and the rest of us enjoying pve with specialist classes that stand out significantly in their role can be left alone.
A healer most certainly can heal others to death, if they're healing the right targets. Since PvP here is solely group based, everyone thinking the striker is OP because they can strike well needs to reevaluate their stance. Or at least look at it from other than "he can kill me, he's OP". I agree with this guy, PvP cannot be "balanced" here. Anything you do to "tune down" damage affects what they can do in PvE, where you may not want them to have their damage "tuned down", especially if you're the healer, and they're expected to help save your *** from adds.
I am currently leveling a GWF beside my TR. Going through the Cloak Tower area on my GWF showed me one thing: In a situation where my TR would have died because I was out of stamina, and couldn't dodge the 10 mobs I had on me, my GWF walked away with half health, and 10 dead mobs. Why? Survivability was > than damage potential. If I'd had the DC companion, I'd have had full health. I don't expect that would work equally well in PvP, however, I do expect that while I was being focus fired, my teammates would be able to relieve some of the pressure. To me, every time I read these threads, and I read a lot more of them than I comment in, that seems to be the root issue: There is no "I" in team. Gear matters. It matters more than it should, as far as I'm concerned, but if someone is out cowboying it up vs a full group, then the problem isn't PvP balance, it's the lack of team play.
Of course a CW can out CC any class, it's their job, they're supposed to be able to do that. Of course a TR can out dps any other class, it's their job, they're supposed to be able to do that. Now, I don't know what my GWF is supposed to be good for yet, but I can already see the harassment potential in landing in the middle of a group with Unstoppable up, and hitting my knock everyone down daily, doing what damage I can and then sprinting off to make them chase me. It's what I do to mobs, some more effectively than against others, but still a viable tactic, and since taking damage recharges both my daily and Unstoppable, taking damage is what I want to be doing, as often as possible. Yep, I'm not going to be as successful at it with subpar gear, and if the other team significantly outgears me, I'm toast, but still, mission accomplished, I harassed them, and made them focus me down, freeing up teammates to do what they're supposed to be doing, which, in the end, may mean I won't be toast, since my DC teammate might be able to keep me from dying, if the TR gets their TR out of the picture, or their CW. Team play. That's the way PvP is designed to work, and the way that people can be successful at it.
Until people quit thinking this is WoW, or another clone where solo PvP is viable, there's no way to say whether PvP is balanced or not. However, just calling for nerfs willy nilly won't accomplish anything, since nerfing will affect PvE every bit as much as PvP, and some players may never even look at PvP, but have to suffer the nerfs for people that either don't understand the role of the class they're playing, think this is a solo PvP game, or simply can't deal with being killed by a class that's designed to kill stuff as fast as possible for PvE instances, the core of this game.
Reading comprehension is essential in a medium that requires reading for communication.
So I just started playing and am most interested in PvP, enjoying other titles such as DAoC and GW2. So it seems from this post that PvP here is more about farming for the best gear and less about player skill, am I getting that right?
While leveling gear doesn't play that big a role because of the scaling mechanic, but at level 60 you need good gear. I had enough glory to buy the level 60 pvp gear by the time I reached level cap, but then you have to get enchants and gems to enhance your gear. I think you can buy a lot of what you need off the auction house as well.
Compared to gw2 spvp, obviously gear is more important. But compared to say WoW, rift, or Tera the gear grind doesn't seem so bad.
Edit: also the class balance feels pretty good overall, the archtypes all excel at their speciality so you can just play the type of game you want without worrying about which class is OP.
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deepscytheMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
A healer most certainly can heal others to death, if they're healing the right targets. Since PvP here is solely group based, everyone thinking the striker is OP because they can strike well needs to reevaluate their stance. Or at least look at it from other than "he can kill me, he's OP". I agree with this guy, PvP cannot be "balanced" here. Anything you do to "tune down" damage affects what they can do in PvE, where you may not want them to have their damage "tuned down", especially if you're the healer, and they're expected to help save your *** from adds.
I am currently leveling a GWF beside my TR. Going through the Cloak Tower area on my GWF showed me one thing: In a situation where my TR would have died because I was out of stamina, and couldn't dodge the 10 mobs I had on me, my GWF walked away with half health, and 10 dead mobs. Why? Survivability was > than damage potential. If I'd had the DC companion, I'd have had full health. I don't expect that would work equally well in PvP, however, I do expect that while I was being focus fired, my teammates would be able to relieve some of the pressure. To me, every time I read these threads, and I read a lot more of them than I comment in, that seems to be the root issue: There is no "I" in team. Gear matters. It matters more than it should, as far as I'm concerned, but if someone is out cowboying it up vs a full group, then the problem isn't PvP balance, it's the lack of team play.
Of course a CW can out CC any class, it's their job, they're supposed to be able to do that. Of course a TR can out dps any other class, it's their job, they're supposed to be able to do that. Now, I don't know what my GWF is supposed to be good for yet, but I can already see the harassment potential in landing in the middle of a group with Unstoppable up, and hitting my knock everyone down daily, doing what damage I can and then sprinting off to make them chase me. It's what I do to mobs, some more effectively than against others, but still a viable tactic, and since taking damage recharges both my daily and Unstoppable, taking damage is what I want to be doing, as often as possible. Yep, I'm not going to be as successful at it with subpar gear, and if the other team significantly outgears me, I'm toast, but still, mission accomplished, I harassed them, and made them focus me down, freeing up teammates to do what they're supposed to be doing, which, in the end, may mean I won't be toast, since my DC teammate might be able to keep me from dying, if the TR gets their TR out of the picture, or their CW. Team play. That's the way PvP is designed to work, and the way that people can be successful at it.
Until people quit thinking this is WoW, or another clone where solo PvP is viable, there's no way to say whether PvP is balanced or not. However, just calling for nerfs willy nilly won't accomplish anything, since nerfing will affect PvE every bit as much as PvP, and some players may never even look at PvP, but have to suffer the nerfs for people that either don't understand the role of the class they're playing, think this is a solo PvP game, or simply can't deal with being killed by a class that's designed to kill stuff as fast as possible for PvE instances, the core of this game.
I am a Trickster Rogue. I am a culprit of crying about imbalance in pvp and thinking that certain people used exploit because it was such a huge disparity in some pvp matches, especially for 1 v 1 fights. I hope this post will give everyone a better understanding of the balance of pvp in this game:
It is all about your level and the gears you wear. At level 60, it is all about your gears. It is not because one class is superior to another because every single class can kill another class if they all wore the same exact tiered gears which includes enchants and non-combat companions.
I will give you an example that you will notice yourself if you paid attention:
Last night, when I was level 54, I went up against a GF and he completely destroyed me everytime in 1 v 1. He would knock me down, take my health down to half, knock me down again, take my health down to under 10%, then finish me off with a lunge. A few hours later, I got to level 59 and upgraded my gears and came across the very same GF in another arena pvp match. This time around, I went into stealth and made sure I had my daily available, knocked him down with my throwing daggers, used my daily on him, then used a burst encounter, and then teleported behind him to finish him off. As you can see, I went from being destroyed to destroying the very same opponent, but the outcome depended on my level and gear.
Another example involves fighting a cleric that had an astral shield (blue shield) with hallowed ground build (makes you invincible for 15 seconds). This time around, it's a level 60 battle. When I first got to level 60, I hadn't gotten my pvp weapons yet and was still using the level 58 weapons. I came across a cleric and was unable to break through the blue shield. No matter what I tried, even with my daily skill, I could not do enough damage through the blue shield to out damage his heal. After about 6 pvp matches, I finally had enough glory to get my main level 60 weapon. Later in the night, I entered the pvp arena and saw that the cleric I had trouble against earlier was on the opposite team. I said to my teammates... "fkkk.... op cleric with the broken blue shield." I was extremely surprised to find that I had no trouble at all breaking through the blue shield and if timed correctly with my daily and lashing strike, I was able to kill the cleric. As you can see, getting a new weapon completely flipped the outcome.
So the next time you think that a TR or CW, or GF, or GWF, or Cleric is overpowered, just stop and think about your gears and the possibility that the other person might have much better gears than you.
I have a feeling that Cryptic did extensive testing with all the classes in 1 v 1 and team fights using the same tiered games for all classes and did their balancing in that matter. This is probably why our threads of pvp balance goes ignored because honestly, we're all biased because we always want the class we play to be superior.
Think before you post. No matter how much testing was done within house, it does not compare to what players from the general populace can come up with. Want an example? Numerous exploits within the game currently. These are things that PLAYERS, not testers, have come up with. The same thing happens with regard to pvp. I posted a thread not to long ago daring the developers to play each of their own classes within their own PVP system wearing full greens until they get a full suit of pvp gear. I'm betting it was ignored which is sad as it really doesn't take long. However in the 1-2 days it takes to get a full suit you get to see the disparity that there is with certain skill combinations for each class that create the imbalance most are referring to but are unable to articulate.
If you can't be constructive in your criticism, go back to world-of-whiners.
Show us a screenshot of your 11k gear score. There is no skill in the game that can 1 shot people if your gear score is the same as the person attacking you. Do you even know how Shocking Execution works? It does damage based on how much health the person has left. If you have full health, it barely takes your health down to about half IF your gear score is the same as the rogue that's attacking you. I've never ever been 1 shotted when I know I have the best gears possible for my bracket, or close to it. Haven't been 1 shotted as a level 60 yet either on GWF and TR.
Technically you can get 1 shot by CW's if they use the move that freezes you to the ground (so that you can't dodge roll the ice knife), followed by ice knife. Top tier vs top tier gear this hits for ~25k+ total. Only the bulky builds are able to resist it, and even then it takes a huge chunk of their hp away. Seeing as the CW will be casting from distance it might aswell be a KO since they usually have time to follow it up with another attack before the opponent can attempt to do something about it (takes time to stand up from getting hit by the ice knife aswell).
As for SE, no - that can definitely not 1hko someone at full hp lawl. Whoever said that hasn't been playing enough >_>
David Valtiere, Lvl 70 TR with perfect Lvl 60 gear which I don't want to replace cause nostalgia yo ;_;
Think before you post. No matter how much testing was done within house, it does not compare to what players from the general populace can come up with. Want an example? Numerous exploits within the game currently. These are things that PLAYERS, not testers, have come up with. The same thing happens with regard to pvp. I posted a thread not to long ago daring the developers to play each of their own classes within their own PVP system wearing full greens until they get a full suit of pvp gear. I'm betting it was ignored which is sad as it really doesn't take long. However in the 1-2 days it takes to get a full suit you get to see the disparity that there is with certain skill combinations for each class that create the imbalance most are referring to but are unable to articulate.
The only way to balance exploits is to ban the exploiters. This has absolutely nothing to do with the general performance of classes from a perspective of a non exploiter. The rest pertains to gear, and frankly, I do think that gear matters more than it should, but I feel this way in any MMO, since really, other than shooters, which is, for me a guess, since I don't play them except for randomly playing against my grandson when I'm over visiting, gear is less important.
Reading comprehension is essential in a medium that requires reading for communication.
Because you're bad and don't know what top gear is. Have you ever seen top gear? You cannot get 1 shotted with the best gear ingame.
T2 Epic set with +7 enchants + non-combat companion. Why don't you show us a screenshot of your gears? I bet you don't even have 10k gear score.
You most certainly can get one shot in top gear as a Cleric or Wizard. The Rogue execute ability is stupidly OP in PvP and everyone knows it. Rogues save it for Wizards exclusively because they know its a 1 shot kill. Wizards cant even dodge it, some bug with teleport.
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aaronfezdeathMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 6Arc User
edited May 2013
The classes are fair. Each class has an advantage others don't. It really is all about the gear.
I am a Trickster Rogue. I am a culprit of crying about imbalance in pvp and thinking that certain people used exploit because it was such a huge disparity in some pvp matches, especially for 1 v 1 fights. I hope this post will give everyone a better understanding of the balance of pvp in this game:
It is all about your level and the gears you wear. At level 60, it is all about your gears. It is not because one class is superior to another because every single class can kill another class if they all wore the same exact tiered gears which includes enchants and non-combat companions.
I will give you an example that you will notice yourself if you paid attention:
Last night, when I was level 54, I went up against a GF and he completely destroyed me everytime in 1 v 1. He would knock me down, take my health down to half, knock me down again, take my health down to under 10%, then finish me off with a lunge. A few hours later, I got to level 59 and upgraded my gears and came across the very same GF in another arena pvp match. This time around, I went into stealth and made sure I had my daily available, knocked him down with my throwing daggers, used my daily on him, then used a burst encounter, and then teleported behind him to finish him off. As you can see, I went from being destroyed to destroying the very same opponent, but the outcome depended on my level and gear.
Another example involves fighting a cleric that had an astral shield (blue shield) with hallowed ground build (makes you invincible for 15 seconds). This time around, it's a level 60 battle. When I first got to level 60, I hadn't gotten my pvp weapons yet and was still using the level 58 weapons. I came across a cleric and was unable to break through the blue shield. No matter what I tried, even with my daily skill, I could not do enough damage through the blue shield to out damage his heal. After about 6 pvp matches, I finally had enough glory to get my main level 60 weapon. Later in the night, I entered the pvp arena and saw that the cleric I had trouble against earlier was on the opposite team. I said to my teammates... "fkkk.... op cleric with the broken blue shield." I was extremely surprised to find that I had no trouble at all breaking through the blue shield and if timed correctly with my daily and lashing strike, I was able to kill the cleric. As you can see, getting a new weapon completely flipped the outcome.
So the next time you think that a TR or CW, or GF, or GWF, or Cleric is overpowered, just stop and think about your gears and the possibility that the other person might have much better gears than you.
I have a feeling that Cryptic did extensive testing with all the classes in 1 v 1 and team fights using the same tiered games for all classes and did their balancing in that matter. This is probably why our threads of pvp balance goes ignored because honestly, we're all biased because we always want the class we play to be superior.
I'm a GWF w 10k+ GS. I can tell you from personal experience it's not all about the GS. While I can kill most people 1v1, I also go 100%-0% very quickly in any situation where there is more than one person. Maybe dmg needs to be toned down for all classes in pvp, I don't know. However while I don't thing my class it as gimped as most people claim, I do believe we are less viable than other classes.
I'm a GWF w 10k+ GS. I can tell you from personal experience it's not all about the GS. While I can kill most people 1v1, I also go 100%-0% very quickly in any situation where there is more than one person. Maybe dmg needs to be toned down for all classes in pvp, I don't know. However while I don't thing my class it as gimped as most people claim, I do believe we are less viable than other classes.
Where is the rest of your team while you're being 100 to 0d? This is the issue, not that 2 or more people can kill one person, but that one person is going up against 2 or more w/out team support. No matter how well balanced classes are, 2 or more should still be able to kill 1 person.
Reading comprehension is essential in a medium that requires reading for communication.
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nukeyooBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
While there's plenty of OP to go around in certain instances with the majority of classes. Top tier of the OP world is most definitely Rogue and CW. My main is a CW and solo queuing with 11.6k gear score running with 45% defensive debuff from greater plague fire weapon enchant on top of my 50% defense debuff from ray of enfeeblement, it is quite comical. I can only manage a couple 20-30 kill matches before my conscious stops me from pushing the queue button again. Been recently leveling up a rogue (only 43 atm) to experience its OPness and it has not let me down. Rage comments ranging in regards to folks getting 1 shot or the fact they wasted their entire rotation while standing on top of me and I took zero damage. I can only imagine more QQ when I get smoke bomb.
Moral of the story, those that say its all "gear difference" are just wrong. It can play a large role in certain situations but it doesn't excuse the class imbalances. While there are certain counters where the balance tips in other classes favor the current state of class balance has rogues and CW's tipping the scales in terms of overall game play substantially in their favor.
I recommend rolling one or both and enjoying the OP and qq because I don't see large enough nerfs ever coming to change the scales.
While there's plenty of OP to go around in certain instances with the majority of classes. Top tier of the OP world is most definitely Rogue and CW. My main is a CW and solo queuing with 11.6k gear score running with 45% defensive debuff from greater plague fire weapon enchant on top of my 50% defense debuff from ray of enfeeblement, it is quite comical. I can only manage a couple 20-30 kill matches before my conscious stops me from pushing the queue button again. Been recently leveling up a rogue (only 43 atm) to experience its OPness and it has not let me down. Rage comments ranging in regards to folks getting 1 shot or the fact they wasted their entire rotation while standing on top of me and I took zero damage. I can only imagine more QQ when I get smoke bomb.
Moral of the story, those that say its all "gear difference" are just wrong. It can play a large role in certain situations but it doesn't excuse the class imbalances. While there are certain counters where the balance tips in other classes favor the current state of class balance has rogues and CW's tipping the scales in terms of overall game play substantially in their favor.
I recommend rolling one or both and enjoying the OP and qq because I don't see large enough nerfs ever coming to change the scales.
So if you wanna enjoy the game play this 2 classes you like it or not? This is why this game will fail if they wont change few things.
There will never be perfect balance in any game because there will always be bad and inferior players. How is that me and some others can dominate with any class we play including GWF, but the majority of you that are complaining on these forums so bad? That's because this game does not cater to amateur gamers.
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nukeyooBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
There will never be perfect balance in any game because there will always be bad and inferior players. How is that me and some others can dominate with any class we play including GWF, but the majority of you that are complaining on these forums so bad? That's because this game does not cater to amateur gamers.
The carebear aspect is absent which makes for lovely QQ.. Either get friends to carry you... or get good.. Just know that no matter how gud you git, there's always gonna be someone better to induce prolific rage..
FYI tears of carebears taste glorious...
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yushirokaneMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
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GWF shouldn't win a 1v1 fight against a rogue in any situation where they are equally geared and equally skilled. The rogue is the single target damage class. That's is it purpose and it is working as intended. However, a skilled PvP team should never find themselves in 1v1 situations to begin with, and your GWF shines in group combat. Or would...if you knew what you were doing.
I am glad that you have finally seen the light Tenkuro, I too am impressed with the class balance.
I would note though that when my CW hit sixty I had the glory to buy all the pvp gear, but my CW was still relatively much weaker than when I was leveling- and I never optimised my leveling gear-I just relied on the scaling. I don't know why I feel so much weaker at level cap, although I don't have all the best enchants/stones etc so maybe that is the reason.
I've seen lvl 60 GWF's that can lay out a whole team, let alone take people on 1v1. Stuns and knockbacks/downs, while resisting damage once they hit unstoppable... It can be crazy.
Since PvP is by far the easiest way to build up gear for lvl 60 content (much faster than trying to farm it since I can PvP for most of a day and gear up), I've been playing a lot of PvP and almost all of it in PUGs. The only class I think that could use some damage buffing love is the DC, the hope of the DC is to simply outlast the other player in 99% of cases. Which is why the hate for or defensive skills is crazy talk... it's all we have. It's not like we can sit in our little Astral Shields and nuke you into the ground. I can at best shove you away (And how some TR's can seem to never be affected by that push amazes me) or hit you with a daily that has knockback or knockdown (though flame pillar often misses for the knockup/knockdown part and they simply take damage).
Games trying to balance PVP and use Character Classes are trying to perform the impossible, its an oxymoron. Character classes are specialists in a particular role, and shouldn't be balanced with other classes that perform different roles. The damage dealer will always have an advantage over the healer, unless you give the healer a ton of damage too, since you can't heal something to death, and then you have to give the damage class healing to compensate, so the eventuality is homogenization. Just look at WoW classes now, and how much self healing and dps the tanks have, and how much survivability and dps the healers have, and how much durability and self healing the dps have...see? If you are using character classes, they are meant to be specialists working as a team, owning their role and compensating for what the other classes can't do, and vice versa.
Experience in other MMO's has taught us that this doesn't work in PVP, as advantages that specialists have in their role are always considered by forum whining pvp'ers to be OP, then they call for nerfs, and the devs eventually cave and homogenization of the classes is the end result. PVP and class based rpgs should never ever...EVER mix, they are anathema to each other. Just turn anyone joining pvp matches into the same standard bot, so no one can complain about anything being imbalanced, and the rest of us enjoying pve with specialist classes that stand out significantly in their role can be left alone.
Im a 60 lvl GWF trying to gear up with the pvp items. only have 8.6k GS so i still have long way i bieleve.
Theres no real balance in pvp cause when a TR comes and hits me 12k dmg ( half my HP) and then 1 more hit lets say 5k how am i going to fight back after this when im left with 7k Hp?Yea ok hes single target dpser but realy this is redicilus...and at 1 vs 1 if the rogue doesnt have hes daily hes dead, the only thing he can do is run... i've seen it lots of times. Maybe nerf a bit this huge dmg or DELETE that stupid silence that lasts or ever? or think a way to give a chance to the other classes to live more than 3 sec? Hes must kill ppl fast cause thats hes job but maybe think that theres something thats called armor in this game so wtf i have to take the same dmg as the CW that has way less than me? Then we have the CW that i have to run to go near him so he pushes me back..then i run again and then he picks me up in the air and after that theres no stamina to catch him and even if i had stamina he could blink like 3 times so we can forget the fact that i will ever catch him. And ofc dont forget that if he has hes daily he hits me more than 10 dmg so im kinda dead before i go near him. And think that hes not a PURE Mage..hes a Control Wizard. Maybe lets say nerf a bit that blink or that OMG range that hits you from the other side of the map?Until i go near him i allready lose more than half of my hp.
I like playing my GWF but realy this kind of pvp makes me not wanna play him or make a class that i dont like so i wont get 2 shot every time. ( and please dont say ..dont pvp or something else that stupid). The game is nice but still it has lots of things that need to be fixed. Start with GWF daily that its the only daily that they can dodge...miss my hit ok but miss with the daily ..yea ok.
Thank you and sorry for any mistakes..english is not my main language.
And something last..just went out of pvp arena..Upstoppable up and the TR hit me with 13k dmg..now HTF is this balance with a skill that i take me 50% less dmg? pff
A healer most certainly can heal others to death, if they're healing the right targets. Since PvP here is solely group based, everyone thinking the striker is OP because they can strike well needs to reevaluate their stance. Or at least look at it from other than "he can kill me, he's OP". I agree with this guy, PvP cannot be "balanced" here. Anything you do to "tune down" damage affects what they can do in PvE, where you may not want them to have their damage "tuned down", especially if you're the healer, and they're expected to help save your *** from adds.
I am currently leveling a GWF beside my TR. Going through the Cloak Tower area on my GWF showed me one thing: In a situation where my TR would have died because I was out of stamina, and couldn't dodge the 10 mobs I had on me, my GWF walked away with half health, and 10 dead mobs. Why? Survivability was > than damage potential. If I'd had the DC companion, I'd have had full health. I don't expect that would work equally well in PvP, however, I do expect that while I was being focus fired, my teammates would be able to relieve some of the pressure. To me, every time I read these threads, and I read a lot more of them than I comment in, that seems to be the root issue: There is no "I" in team. Gear matters. It matters more than it should, as far as I'm concerned, but if someone is out cowboying it up vs a full group, then the problem isn't PvP balance, it's the lack of team play.
Of course a CW can out CC any class, it's their job, they're supposed to be able to do that. Of course a TR can out dps any other class, it's their job, they're supposed to be able to do that. Now, I don't know what my GWF is supposed to be good for yet, but I can already see the harassment potential in landing in the middle of a group with Unstoppable up, and hitting my knock everyone down daily, doing what damage I can and then sprinting off to make them chase me. It's what I do to mobs, some more effectively than against others, but still a viable tactic, and since taking damage recharges both my daily and Unstoppable, taking damage is what I want to be doing, as often as possible. Yep, I'm not going to be as successful at it with subpar gear, and if the other team significantly outgears me, I'm toast, but still, mission accomplished, I harassed them, and made them focus me down, freeing up teammates to do what they're supposed to be doing, which, in the end, may mean I won't be toast, since my DC teammate might be able to keep me from dying, if the TR gets their TR out of the picture, or their CW. Team play. That's the way PvP is designed to work, and the way that people can be successful at it.
Until people quit thinking this is WoW, or another clone where solo PvP is viable, there's no way to say whether PvP is balanced or not. However, just calling for nerfs willy nilly won't accomplish anything, since nerfing will affect PvE every bit as much as PvP, and some players may never even look at PvP, but have to suffer the nerfs for people that either don't understand the role of the class they're playing, think this is a solo PvP game, or simply can't deal with being killed by a class that's designed to kill stuff as fast as possible for PvE instances, the core of this game.
While leveling gear doesn't play that big a role because of the scaling mechanic, but at level 60 you need good gear. I had enough glory to buy the level 60 pvp gear by the time I reached level cap, but then you have to get enchants and gems to enhance your gear. I think you can buy a lot of what you need off the auction house as well.
Compared to gw2 spvp, obviously gear is more important. But compared to say WoW, rift, or Tera the gear grind doesn't seem so bad.
Edit: also the class balance feels pretty good overall, the archtypes all excel at their speciality so you can just play the type of game you want without worrying about which class is OP.
i couldnt have phrased it better ^ +1
Think before you post. No matter how much testing was done within house, it does not compare to what players from the general populace can come up with. Want an example? Numerous exploits within the game currently. These are things that PLAYERS, not testers, have come up with. The same thing happens with regard to pvp. I posted a thread not to long ago daring the developers to play each of their own classes within their own PVP system wearing full greens until they get a full suit of pvp gear. I'm betting it was ignored which is sad as it really doesn't take long. However in the 1-2 days it takes to get a full suit you get to see the disparity that there is with certain skill combinations for each class that create the imbalance most are referring to but are unable to articulate.
Technically you can get 1 shot by CW's if they use the move that freezes you to the ground (so that you can't dodge roll the ice knife), followed by ice knife. Top tier vs top tier gear this hits for ~25k+ total. Only the bulky builds are able to resist it, and even then it takes a huge chunk of their hp away. Seeing as the CW will be casting from distance it might aswell be a KO since they usually have time to follow it up with another attack before the opponent can attempt to do something about it (takes time to stand up from getting hit by the ice knife aswell).
As for SE, no - that can definitely not 1hko someone at full hp lawl. Whoever said that hasn't been playing enough >_>
The only way to balance exploits is to ban the exploiters. This has absolutely nothing to do with the general performance of classes from a perspective of a non exploiter. The rest pertains to gear, and frankly, I do think that gear matters more than it should, but I feel this way in any MMO, since really, other than shooters, which is, for me a guess, since I don't play them except for randomly playing against my grandson when I'm over visiting, gear is less important.
hahahahaha!
I understand it perfectly. There is none, and isn't ever going to be any.
You most certainly can get one shot in top gear as a Cleric or Wizard. The Rogue execute ability is stupidly OP in PvP and everyone knows it. Rogues save it for Wizards exclusively because they know its a 1 shot kill. Wizards cant even dodge it, some bug with teleport.
I'm a GWF w 10k+ GS. I can tell you from personal experience it's not all about the GS. While I can kill most people 1v1, I also go 100%-0% very quickly in any situation where there is more than one person. Maybe dmg needs to be toned down for all classes in pvp, I don't know. However while I don't thing my class it as gimped as most people claim, I do believe we are less viable than other classes.
Where is the rest of your team while you're being 100 to 0d? This is the issue, not that 2 or more people can kill one person, but that one person is going up against 2 or more w/out team support. No matter how well balanced classes are, 2 or more should still be able to kill 1 person.
Moral of the story, those that say its all "gear difference" are just wrong. It can play a large role in certain situations but it doesn't excuse the class imbalances. While there are certain counters where the balance tips in other classes favor the current state of class balance has rogues and CW's tipping the scales in terms of overall game play substantially in their favor.
I recommend rolling one or both and enjoying the OP and qq because I don't see large enough nerfs ever coming to change the scales.
So if you wanna enjoy the game play this 2 classes you like it or not? This is why this game will fail if they wont change few things.
v v
The carebear aspect is absent which makes for lovely QQ.. Either get friends to carry you... or get good.. Just know that no matter how gud you git, there's always gonna be someone better to induce prolific rage..
FYI tears of carebears taste glorious...
wtf is a cmpanins?