millertime197933Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 124Bounty Hunter
edited May 2013
Free health stone was really the only thing of value in that pack. Characterizing the package as "robust" was a bit of false advertising. I was expecting some direct compensation for loss of celestial coins...such as a profession pack or something. But that was not the case.
I do wish they would add the items to the founder's vendor so we can reclaim them at a later date. The cloak is neat and a year or two down the road I'd want to break it out so someone could ask how I got it, then I could tell them the story....however...I won't keep it in my inventory taking up bag space that long. Might be cool if it atually had some stats, or if they made it a fashion item. They would need to make a cloak tab, or add a shirt graphic to it though for that to happen.
Free health stone was really the only thing of value in that pack. Characterizing the package as "robust" was a bit of false advertising. I was expecting some direct compensation for loss of celestial coins...such as a profession pack or something. But that was not the case.
I do wish they would add the items to the founder's vendor so we can reclaim them at a later date. The cloak is neat and a year or two down the road I'd want to break it out so someone could ask how I got it, then I could tell them the story....however...I won't keep it in my inventory taking up bag space that long. Might be cool if it atually had some stats, or if they made it a fashion item. They would need to make a cloak tab, or add a shirt graphic to it though for that to happen.
The value of the pack is subjective. I highly value titles. Since the title we received will not be available to any character made after 5/19/2013, I find that title to be highly valuable and it makes my characters even more valuable.
The premise of your logic is deeply flawed. Things are either complete or they are not complete. If you sell a product or service, it should no longer be in a development cycle.
This product is incomplete. Correct functionality of fundamental systems does not exist. It is being sold regardless. Do not go back to the garbage of saying that they are not selling it because it is "free to play". They have accepted money from players for in-game items in services, that constitutes sale of the product.
"
They are calling it "beta" because it is incomplete. The fact is that they "launched" the game the day they made it available for download to everyone and started accepting money for in-game content. If there is a future date that they say the game is "launched", then that announcement is important in ceremony only and holds no purposeful meaning other than that.
There is a difference between reality and perception. The goal of the developer is to manipulate the public's perception of their product to maximize profits, whether that be for the long or short term. Everything they do is in pursuit of that goal. The goal of business is to maximize profits. Please rid yourself of any naive illusions you hold to the contrary.
Actually, by the time any sane reasonable person opens their wallet they should have already tried the game out and should be well aware of the games shortcomings and strengths. Most games require an up front purchase before you get to even try it. Yes this product is" incomplete", but you would have to be a very poor consumer not to know this before you decided to spend money.
Spending money is voluntary to play this game. They are not selling anything you are being forced to buy before you know the state of the product, so there is really no reason to bash them.
Also your first sentence is flawed. There is no complete when it comes to mmo's.
Don't know of any exploits/cheats/hacks for the game... not my style. Long as they ctach ans wipe everyone using them I'm good with it. But to what the OP posted on, I frigging HATE this stupid pack, this sorry I ran inot your new camero, heres a cookie hande dto those of us who have played by the rules. I lost 5 levels, a dang nice blue orb I got out of a purple chest, and phobie fire bird thang... and was handed a bag of HAMSTER for all the effort. First I would like THOSE items returned to me, I paid for them buying keys to open chest, next I would also like a respec token or AD to compesate for my time. WE are after all customers, some of us spend some money, some don't. Neither one matters, were why this game is even being played. COme on PWE, fair is fair, dont hand us some crab bag and a thank you... give us meaningful things ......items we can actually put to use. Just my 2 censt on this. AND I WANT MY BLUE ORB BACK !! LOL
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"Sir, were now surrounded"!
Thats great news son, now we can attack from ALL sides"!
While as part of the playerbase I appreciate the effort to try to give an elegant response from part of the Devs to the OP, I think that it's unnecesary and you're just giving in to his game.
They don't care about how hard you guys try. They'll always think you're lazy, greedy or short-sighted. These players think that they are entitled enough to run a MMORPG with all the challenges involved and can give answers to problems that even though may take weeks or a month in the real world, in their imagination this only takes seconds.
If you give them Healthstones, bad, they wanted Celestial Coins. If you give them both, they wanted a Cat too! And AD. And Zen. Oh, but now there's too much free Zen, so mine's worth less! Fix it, Cryptic! And...
I'm aware of the reasoning behind trying to keep things in the dark and trying to not show too much closeness towards players in the forums. I've seen it in many games, Devs and Community Managers ending up being eaten alive by hungry trolls. If you see this kind of threads that are obviously a rant and don't offer anything constructive, just ignore them. Don't bother to answer, stick to your general briefings. There's a silent majority here that truly enjoys the game - even though with bugs and exploits - and you have our support.
This.
I wish these forums allowed me the ability to thumbs down the OP.
0
lazenbyMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 26Arc User
Actually, by the time any sane reasonable person opens their wallet they should have already tried the game out and should be well aware of the games shortcomings and strengths. Most games require an up front purchase before you get to even try it. Yes this product is" incomplete", but you would have to be a very poor consumer not to know this before you decided to spend money.
Spending money is voluntary to play this game. They are not selling anything you are being forced to buy before you know the state of the product, so there is really no reason to bash them.
Also your first sentence is flawed. There is no complete when it comes to mmo's.
Released content and features should be free of major exploits/bugs in a live product. I understand that MMO's are organic and constantly evolving. That is exactly why real and not fake "beta" tests are so important. This is a fake "beta" test. All of my tickets have been closed due to volume and not resolved. That doesn't happen in a real beta test.
And please explain to me how players could have possibly known that there would have been a massive currency exploit after the first week or two of play? How do you factor that into a decision to spend money on the game?
You are analyzing things in terms of content and not functionality - two very different things.
Gratitude would usually come in the form of something people want, not this useless HAMSTER. With that being said, I guess your gratitude is not as important as your cash shop. Plenty of items in there that people would have been overjoyed with, but you choose this HAMSTER.
Yeah, you know, Devs that actually attempt to compensate users for unscheduled down time should be thrashed thoroughly for their efforts. The sad thing is, we had a server go down for almost 4 days on another MMO I played, and the people in the thread discussing it were chastised by all the other servers that could actually play for their entitlement laden position. The compensation for losing out on 4 days of play, including people that bought HV passes, which are timed based on purchase date? Nothing. This from an established game. So bash away, you are paving the road to the same kind of behavior. As for me, once I get a cape that I'm planning to keep, I'll use the cape from the pack to alter it's appearance. I appreciate the gesture, more than the content, because they are not required, by their own rules, to compensate us all.
The premise of your logic is deeply flawed. Things are either complete or they are not complete. If you sell a product or service, it should no longer be in a development cycle.
This product is incomplete. Correct functionality of fundamental systems does not exist. It is being sold regardless. Do not go back to the garbage of saying that they are not selling it because it is "free to play". They have accepted money from players for in-game items in services, that constitutes sale of the product.
"
They are calling it "beta" because it is incomplete. The fact is that they "launched" the game the day they made it available for download to everyone and started accepting money for in-game content. If there is a future date that they say the game is "launched", then that announcement is important in ceremony only and holds no purposeful meaning other than that.
There is a difference between reality and perception. The goal of the developer is to manipulate the public's perception of their product to maximize profits, whether that be for the long or short term. Everything they do is in pursuit of that goal. The goal of business is to maximize profits. Please rid yourself of any naive illusions you hold to the contrary.
So buying Zen isn't working as intended? That's the only thing you can buy after Founder's Packs. I understand some people are having issues with the Founder's Packs, but I didn't have any issues with it. I also didn't pay to download the game, and I didn't purchase a Founder's Pack until I had played it, so I knew what I was buying, and what effects it would have. So your dismissive argument on F2P is irrelevant, since I initially played for free, and could have continued doing so, if I had chosen to. You did not buy the game. Some games that are F2P require you to purchase the game and expansions, GW I'm looking at you, this one hasn't. So your argument is invalid, other than discussing the cash shop and Founder's Packs.
Reading comprehension is essential in a medium that requires reading for communication.
You know it's sad when a dev or CM is as nice and professional to a group of jerks as they can possibly be and tries to acknowledge mistakes only to get a big F U by the unwashed masses.
This forum needs a Tseric, Tweety, or a Derrick Smart, yeah you might still scream your profanity, but you're going to have to create a new account each time, but not before you're burned to the ground verbally.
Please note that we understand that the pack does not excuse any errors on our part. The purpose of the pack is for us to demonstrate our gratitude to our players who stuck with us, reported issues, and demonstrated patience while we sorted out Sundays issues.
We do understand that both lost progress and the inability to play for several hours on Sunday were both major inconveniences and acknowledge that an item cannot earn immediate forgiveness. Our plan is to continually fix bugs, investigate reports of exploitation, and follow-up as needed to ensure that Neverwinter is an amazing game that everyone can enjoy. That is what we plan on doing to show our community how committed we are to operating an amazing game.
I'm happy to see you addressing issues. I never opened my mail and got my cat bag yet but it's a nice gesture.
You are analyzing things in terms of content and not functionality - two very different things.
Dude...you're beating a dead horse. You are either arguing with employees of PWE or kids who havent had the pleasure of living in the real world.
PWE says it is a beta...so it's a beta....
That used car salesman said only one owner, and it was a little old lady who only drove it to church on sundays....he says it, so it must be true, I mean, just because it is 2 years old and has 200,000 miles on it doesnt mean anything, the nice used carsaleman told me the truth......
Just get a laugh at the youthful exuberance and move on. You wont convince them, it's going to take the school of hard knocks.
Wait, so you get some eye candy, an appology, and some exp boosts and you cry foul? I think the package was just fit and fine. I think as a player, I would expect every AH thing I was doing to be cancelled, and bids I had cancelled, and a possible gameplay rollback to deal with the huge influx of phoney cash. I was hoping they would leave the exchange and AH down for the full time it takes for items to bounce back, so it would essentially soft reset the AD economy.
The fact that they are working on bouncing all the bad money is a good thing and trumps all compensations IMHO/IMPO
Seeing most of the replies, I can finally understand Cryptic/PWE's reason for giving out candies as a token of apology.
Having said that, I'm not surprised that most posters focused on the "gift" part and ignored the other part of my arguments ( I think only 1 poster who seemed rational, mature and disagrees with me noticed that) ...making personal attacks rather than rebutting my argument is logically.
Here's a summary of my post:
1) The recent gift stunt is a reflection on the developer's attitude
2) Exploiters need to be prosecuted, but not at the expense of innocent players.
Lets start with 2). Wanting a full wipe to punish the prosecutor is like a witch hunt. Period. Rebut me on that.
Now for 1). I did said this is a great game...and at no point was I saying that the dev was slacking off or something. I am just saying the way they structure the gift is a reflection on their attitude. By many of your definition, any gifts should be accepted with gratitude...well...here's a piece of used wet tissue...now show me your gratitude.
Personally I wasn't affected much by the roll back (1/3 a level, maybe 2k AD), so I couldn't care less about what's in the gift pack. If it's something useful, great! If they choose not to give anything, fine by me. But looking at others who had put in time, you cannot deny that this compensation cannot compensate for the time that they've put in. Off course, not everyone can be satisfied... but the first thing that a reputable company usually does when there's a screw up is to calm the players...and a look at the forum could tell you that the players are not calmed. Is that what any company want their customers to feel when they screw something up, and to elevate the sour feelings further?
Their act alone signals me that they are not sincere in their apologies. Maybe it wasn't Cryptic's fault, since PWE probably makes the call. All I'm saying is that a single bag, or a respec token, which cost them nothing, and does not impact their bottom line significantly would had made a lot of players happy, and they refuse to do so...my question is why? I'm not going to say it...but for some of you gamers that have been around long enough to know PWE's history, you know what I'm thinking.
Beta have bugs, yes. Released games have bugs as well...so I couldn't care less about the labeling. When you openly release the game, weather in beta state or full release to the world, then the players are now stakeholders (reference project management). The success of your product will depend on the stakeholders...so that doesn't excuse you from doing stupid things. I can accept that there will be screw ups...even fully released games has it...but the key here is how do they handle the screw up...and I don't think Cryp/PWE handles it very well this time.
Beta have bugs, yes. Released games have bugs as well...so I couldn't care less about the labeling. When you openly release the game, weather in beta state or full release to the world, then the players are now stakeholders (reference project management). The success of your product will depend on the stakeholders...so that doesn't excuse you from doing stupid things. I can accept that there will be screw ups...even fully released games has it...but the key here is how do they handle the screw up...and I don't think Cryp/PWE handles it very well this time.
I agree yet dont understand why some people forget or simply ignoring about this important things in MMO, okay, maybe some of you trying to "run from reality" using a MMO, but there is also a form of "reality" here
I actully love the gesture..I think you need to grow a sense of humor. I have played plenty of free to play games, and this is the first time they did something like this. I mean, yeah it sucked that they rolled it back. Personally i lost about 100k astral diamonds cause of the whole fiasco, and the auction house is still down, but you know what, a few months down the line i will have an awesome cape and title that none of the new players have.
In other games where I experienced roll back and other bugs, you know what I would have?..nothing.
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akikisaragiMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 1Arc User
Please note that we understand that the pack does not excuse any errors on our part. The purpose of the pack is for us to demonstrate our gratitude to our players who stuck with us, reported issues, and demonstrated patience while we sorted out Sundays issues.
We do understand that both lost progress and the inability to play for several hours on Sunday were both major inconveniences and acknowledge that an item cannot earn immediate forgiveness. Our plan is to continually fix bugs, investigate reports of exploitation, and follow-up as needed to ensure that Neverwinter is an amazing game that everyone can enjoy. That is what we plan on doing to show our community how committed we are to operating an amazing game.
Imo true fans wouldn't want anything in return other than doing whatever is necessary as soon as feasibly possible to fix things like exploits, complete investigations that justly ban the exploiters. Coming from working for a AAA mmo for several years, I know investigations take time to avoid banning people unjustly. Those whining about getting a gift for some snafus rather than appreciate the effort to fix things imo deserve nothing. The true fans know you're committed to Neverwinter and understand S happens especially during open beta.
Please note that we understand that the pack does not excuse any errors on our part. The purpose of the pack is for us to demonstrate our gratitude to our players who stuck with us, reported issues, and demonstrated patience while we sorted out Sundays issues.
We do understand that both lost progress and the inability to play for several hours on Sunday were both major inconveniences and acknowledge that an item cannot earn immediate forgiveness. Our plan is to continually fix bugs, investigate reports of exploitation, and follow-up as needed to ensure that Neverwinter is an amazing game that everyone can enjoy. That is what we plan on doing to show our community how committed we are to operating an amazing game.
Yeah, what about those who lost mounts due to the rollback. This "compensation" is hardly compensation.
OP is wrong..
they had to rollback, maybe compensation reward not as good as you expect.. but it's nothing to be whine about..
i was already banned during rollback times.. so i didn't lost anything..
i understand OP's frustration but in order to fix.. they rollback to moment where a lot of people exploited the AH..
In that case only few amount of players left as initial exploiter..
Now for 2-3 first exploiters there is no need for wipe so they made rollback , back to time where a lot of people exploited..
maybe OP lost couple hours of playtime, but at least economy is getting better.. we will see detailed results after AH opens up
I'm not whining about the rollback...if you bother to read my whole post and not selective pick on things to just call me a whiner, you'll notice that I didn't lose anything significant, nor am I sour about the roll back. I'm simply pointing out that this is an indication of the dev's attitude and I think they could had done better about their damage control PR.
Comments
I do wish they would add the items to the founder's vendor so we can reclaim them at a later date. The cloak is neat and a year or two down the road I'd want to break it out so someone could ask how I got it, then I could tell them the story....however...I won't keep it in my inventory taking up bag space that long. Might be cool if it atually had some stats, or if they made it a fashion item. They would need to make a cloak tab, or add a shirt graphic to it though for that to happen.
The value of the pack is subjective. I highly value titles. Since the title we received will not be available to any character made after 5/19/2013, I find that title to be highly valuable and it makes my characters even more valuable.
Actually, by the time any sane reasonable person opens their wallet they should have already tried the game out and should be well aware of the games shortcomings and strengths. Most games require an up front purchase before you get to even try it. Yes this product is" incomplete", but you would have to be a very poor consumer not to know this before you decided to spend money.
Spending money is voluntary to play this game. They are not selling anything you are being forced to buy before you know the state of the product, so there is really no reason to bash them.
Also your first sentence is flawed. There is no complete when it comes to mmo's.
"Sir, were now surrounded"!
Thats great news son, now we can attack from ALL sides"!
This.
I wish these forums allowed me the ability to thumbs down the OP.
Released content and features should be free of major exploits/bugs in a live product. I understand that MMO's are organic and constantly evolving. That is exactly why real and not fake "beta" tests are so important. This is a fake "beta" test. All of my tickets have been closed due to volume and not resolved. That doesn't happen in a real beta test.
And please explain to me how players could have possibly known that there would have been a massive currency exploit after the first week or two of play? How do you factor that into a decision to spend money on the game?
You are analyzing things in terms of content and not functionality - two very different things.
Yes, because code never breaks with updates.
Yeah, you know, Devs that actually attempt to compensate users for unscheduled down time should be thrashed thoroughly for their efforts. The sad thing is, we had a server go down for almost 4 days on another MMO I played, and the people in the thread discussing it were chastised by all the other servers that could actually play for their entitlement laden position. The compensation for losing out on 4 days of play, including people that bought HV passes, which are timed based on purchase date? Nothing. This from an established game. So bash away, you are paving the road to the same kind of behavior. As for me, once I get a cape that I'm planning to keep, I'll use the cape from the pack to alter it's appearance. I appreciate the gesture, more than the content, because they are not required, by their own rules, to compensate us all.
So buying Zen isn't working as intended? That's the only thing you can buy after Founder's Packs. I understand some people are having issues with the Founder's Packs, but I didn't have any issues with it. I also didn't pay to download the game, and I didn't purchase a Founder's Pack until I had played it, so I knew what I was buying, and what effects it would have. So your dismissive argument on F2P is irrelevant, since I initially played for free, and could have continued doing so, if I had chosen to. You did not buy the game. Some games that are F2P require you to purchase the game and expansions, GW I'm looking at you, this one hasn't. So your argument is invalid, other than discussing the cash shop and Founder's Packs.
It's obamanation baby..welfare and let them eat cake!
"Sir, were now surrounded"!
Thats great news son, now we can attack from ALL sides"!
This forum needs a Tseric, Tweety, or a Derrick Smart, yeah you might still scream your profanity, but you're going to have to create a new account each time, but not before you're burned to the ground verbally.
I'm happy to see you addressing issues. I never opened my mail and got my cat bag yet but it's a nice gesture.
Dude...you're beating a dead horse. You are either arguing with employees of PWE or kids who havent had the pleasure of living in the real world.
PWE says it is a beta...so it's a beta....
That used car salesman said only one owner, and it was a little old lady who only drove it to church on sundays....he says it, so it must be true, I mean, just because it is 2 years old and has 200,000 miles on it doesnt mean anything, the nice used carsaleman told me the truth......
Just get a laugh at the youthful exuberance and move on. You wont convince them, it's going to take the school of hard knocks.
The fact that they are working on bouncing all the bad money is a good thing and trumps all compensations IMHO/IMPO
Having said that, I'm not surprised that most posters focused on the "gift" part and ignored the other part of my arguments ( I think only 1 poster who seemed rational, mature and disagrees with me noticed that) ...making personal attacks rather than rebutting my argument is logically.
Here's a summary of my post:
1) The recent gift stunt is a reflection on the developer's attitude
2) Exploiters need to be prosecuted, but not at the expense of innocent players.
Lets start with 2). Wanting a full wipe to punish the prosecutor is like a witch hunt. Period. Rebut me on that.
Now for 1). I did said this is a great game...and at no point was I saying that the dev was slacking off or something. I am just saying the way they structure the gift is a reflection on their attitude. By many of your definition, any gifts should be accepted with gratitude...well...here's a piece of used wet tissue...now show me your gratitude.
Personally I wasn't affected much by the roll back (1/3 a level, maybe 2k AD), so I couldn't care less about what's in the gift pack. If it's something useful, great! If they choose not to give anything, fine by me. But looking at others who had put in time, you cannot deny that this compensation cannot compensate for the time that they've put in. Off course, not everyone can be satisfied... but the first thing that a reputable company usually does when there's a screw up is to calm the players...and a look at the forum could tell you that the players are not calmed. Is that what any company want their customers to feel when they screw something up, and to elevate the sour feelings further?
Their act alone signals me that they are not sincere in their apologies. Maybe it wasn't Cryptic's fault, since PWE probably makes the call. All I'm saying is that a single bag, or a respec token, which cost them nothing, and does not impact their bottom line significantly would had made a lot of players happy, and they refuse to do so...my question is why? I'm not going to say it...but for some of you gamers that have been around long enough to know PWE's history, you know what I'm thinking.
Beta have bugs, yes. Released games have bugs as well...so I couldn't care less about the labeling. When you openly release the game, weather in beta state or full release to the world, then the players are now stakeholders (reference project management). The success of your product will depend on the stakeholders...so that doesn't excuse you from doing stupid things. I can accept that there will be screw ups...even fully released games has it...but the key here is how do they handle the screw up...and I don't think Cryp/PWE handles it very well this time.
I agree yet dont understand why some people forget or simply ignoring about this important things in MMO, okay, maybe some of you trying to "run from reality" using a MMO, but there is also a form of "reality" here
In other games where I experienced roll back and other bugs, you know what I would have?..nothing.
Imo true fans wouldn't want anything in return other than doing whatever is necessary as soon as feasibly possible to fix things like exploits, complete investigations that justly ban the exploiters. Coming from working for a AAA mmo for several years, I know investigations take time to avoid banning people unjustly. Those whining about getting a gift for some snafus rather than appreciate the effort to fix things imo deserve nothing. The true fans know you're committed to Neverwinter and understand S happens especially during open beta.
Yeah, what about those who lost mounts due to the rollback. This "compensation" is hardly compensation.
they had to rollback, maybe compensation reward not as good as you expect.. but it's nothing to be whine about..
i was already banned during rollback times.. so i didn't lost anything..
i understand OP's frustration but in order to fix.. they rollback to moment where a lot of people exploited the AH..
In that case only few amount of players left as initial exploiter..
Now for 2-3 first exploiters there is no need for wipe so they made rollback , back to time where a lot of people exploited..
maybe OP lost couple hours of playtime, but at least economy is getting better.. we will see detailed results after AH opens up