We plan to look into class balance feedback in more detail in the near future. I do apologize that we have been receiving wonderful feedback from you guys, but have not been able to address it as quickly as we would have liked. As we move forward with the fixes for the current items at hand, we do plan on giving balance feedback an in-depth review and communicate with our players on that progress. Thanks for your patience, support, and understanding!
Your GF class is a big steamy pile of dog <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>.
Please take a hearty bite and lemme know what you think!
Your GF class is a big steamy pile of dog <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>.
Please take a hearty bite and lemme know what you think!
How so? What should they change? WHAT DO YOU WANT (beyond a psychic dev team)?
Nice, productive feedback there. I wish people like you would just, like, never speak or type, basically.
The problem with the GF is that it has lots of fans, too, people who (in this very thread!) are saying what they like about it. Obviously if they completely changed the class, they'd tick off a bunch of people. Clearly there are people (like you) who'd like something different, maybe completely different or maybe just different in the specialization paths. But since "dog <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>" is all you're capable of, you're very unlikely to ever get what you want out of basically any gaming studio ever.
Good luck with those communication skills, though!
_
[SIGPIC]Captain Electric and the Sapien Spider[/SIGPIC]
I have a level 60, well geared guardian fighter. My friend has a level 60, well geared great weapon fighter. Together, along with a cleric, rogue, and wizard, we are about to beat epic castle never (got the last boss dracolich to 24% yesterday and we plan on defeating him today). Our group, comprised of one of each class, has also never lost a pvp game at level 60. We are literally undefeated together... clocking in somewhere above 50 straight wins.
So, even though GFs and GWFs may not be as highly demanded as rogues or clerics or wizards, they are not garbage, and they are not useless. Learn to play your class well, and you might actually find that they can be quite powerful. If you feel that there are balancing issues, instead of posting a contemptuous rant, let the developers know exactly what you feel is wrong with the balance and they just might fix it sooner.
Your anecdote suggests that a skilled premade with great gear is what makes GF and GWFs viable, not learning how to play. The classes need to be viable and balanced without significant advantages that could be masking the problem.
The main problem with GF is that tanking isn't needed because of how game mechanics work and GFs don't cause enough threat to be tanks anyway. GFs can be effective when they go DPS.
The main problem with GWF is that they aren't a better choice than any other class for whatever role they try.
The two classes need some clarification from the developers about what role those classes serve and how their skills / feats / etc are going to be modified to make them good at those roles.
You just lost 100 street cred with reading comprehension failure of epic magnitudes. Go back to school and learn to learn.
I agree that the GWF needs a buff. It simply does not do enough damage per hit.
If you use classic D&D damage as a reference. A rogue with daggers does 1d4 damage per hit, while a fighter with a greatsword does 2d6 damage per hit. Now admittedly a Rogue with 2 daggers is going to have more attacks than the GWF but the GWF should do 3 times the damage per hit especially against single targets.
Just look at it realistically, what does more damage if you were to use it in the real world a 12 inch dagger or a 6 foot long greatsword. Sure you can cut or stab more times with the dagger but the sword only needs 1 hit to do massive damage.
Now I don't want the Trickster Rogue nerfed they are fine with the damage they do. It's just the GWF needs a buff it shouldn't take a half-orc with 25 strength and a greatsword 20 hits to take out single non-boss targets.
Neverwinter is in beta testing with bugs, game imbalances, roll backs, etc to be expected. If you wished a polished product you should wait for Neverwinter to be officially released. If you do not want to beta test software, then why are you beta testing Neverwinter?
You can put lipstick on it and call it Percy, that does make it a pig called Percy. Cryptic can call it what they like but when they started taking money their obligations to thier paying customers changed. It irritates me when people parrot the beta mantra, it clearly isn't, no NDA, taking money, no limit on participation, its released.
You can put lipstick on it and call it Percy, that does make it a pig called Percy. Cryptic can call it what they like but when they started taking money their obligations to thier paying customers changed. It irritates me when people parrot the beta mantra, it clearly isn't, no NDA, taking money, no limit on participation, its released.
Keep telling yourself that.
I sometimes pre-purchase games on Steam for alpha or beta access, with the full knowledge that I'm buying a half-baked, buggy as heck game; but I've done it a few times so that I could get my feedback into the game and show my support for a few niche genres I care about.
Look people, drop the silly semantics. The beta tag, especially when put on a game that's accepting money, is partly slapped on as an invitation, and partly slapped on as a warning. If you ignored the latter part, the warning, then you've probably got problems that I can't solve for you on an Internet forum.
_
[SIGPIC]Captain Electric and the Sapien Spider[/SIGPIC]
Well I've heard that feat was really bad from research I've done.
And as for avoiding dmg, I was speaking mainly from just leveling. I feel punished for avoiding dmg, by losing dmg.
I'm not speaking about Focused Destroyer (it's bad because Steel Blitz is superior as Destroyer for a damage passive), but the last feat of the Destroyer tree, which is actually needed to give you the Action Point spam.
Characters: - Titania Silverblade, the Iron Rose of Myth Drannor (Lvl 60 GWF, Destroyer) - Gwyneth, the Cowardly Cat Burglar Drowling (Lvl 60 TR, Saboteur) - Lady Rowanne Firehair, Heartwarder of Sune (Lvl 33 DC) - Satella, Sensate (LvL 44 CW, Renegade, Non-Active)
In Alpha, when popping Unstoppable healed you, this worked and made sense, if the heal itself might have been too strong. I'd have cut it's power and made it a HOT instead of all at once, myself.. like a DOT that lasted as long as the Unstoppable was up, perhaps. Removing it as was done so far makes the class feel .. fragile.
In any event, I think it's not any one of these three issues holding back the GWF class, it's all of them together. GFs have much better self healing options than GWFs do, and that certainly doesn't feel right either, since we are capped to using Scale armor with it's 50% Deflection value.
It almost feels like the only viable GWF build at the moment, and only then at high level, is one that emphasizes Crits for damage and Defense and Deflect for aiding with damage reduction.. and we'll still be chugging potions harder than any other class in the game doing that.
Perhaps a Lifesteal buff would be appropriate to buff Unstoppable. It would definitely feel intuitive and give you an incentive to utilize all that gained attack speed! Perhaps something like 10% LS, that would be sweet.
This is one of the reasons why I think the Acolyte is interesting for the GWF since she tends to draw less aggro and could synergize better with the class' kit.
Characters: - Titania Silverblade, the Iron Rose of Myth Drannor (Lvl 60 GWF, Destroyer) - Gwyneth, the Cowardly Cat Burglar Drowling (Lvl 60 TR, Saboteur) - Lady Rowanne Firehair, Heartwarder of Sune (Lvl 33 DC) - Satella, Sensate (LvL 44 CW, Renegade, Non-Active)
Perhaps a Lifesteal buff would be appropriate to buff Unstoppable. It would definitely feel intuitive and give you an incentive to utilize all that gained attack speed! Perhaps something like 10% LS, that would be sweet.
This is one of the reasons why I think the Acolyte is interesting for the GWF since she tends to draw less aggro and could synergize better with the class' kit.
LOL, why don't you just build life steal with enchants then?
I have a level 60, well geared guardian fighter. My friend has a level 60, well geared great weapon fighter. Together, along with a cleric, rogue, and wizard, we are about to beat epic castle never (got the last boss dracolich to 24% yesterday and we plan on defeating him today). Our group, comprised of one of each class, has also never lost a pvp game at level 60. We are literally undefeated together... clocking in somewhere above 50 straight wins.
So, even though GFs and GWFs may not be as highly demanded as rogues or clerics or wizards, they are not garbage, and they are not useless. Learn to play your class well, and you might actually find that they can be quite powerful. If you feel that there are balancing issues, instead of posting a contemptuous rant, let the developers know exactly what you feel is wrong with the balance and they just might fix it sooner.
i agree with these one i have a GWF and making a GF as long as u know how to play them they are ok sure they don't have the burst damage that CW can dish out and they cant crit as much as rogues do but they can last long in clashes it's a battle for endurance when using them (that's my point of view) the longer you last in team fights the better without GWF and GF rogues can easily kill other classes everyone has its purpose if u want to crit more then go for rogue if u want burst go for CW. just sharing my opinion no offense meant.
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steppenkatMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
LOL, why don't you just build life steal with enchants then?
Yes, that's an option, but I think that is an underwhelming option. The stat itself doesn't give a lot of % LS, you need to pump lots and lots and the sole gain from Enchantments doesn't feel enough.
Characters: - Titania Silverblade, the Iron Rose of Myth Drannor (Lvl 60 GWF, Destroyer) - Gwyneth, the Cowardly Cat Burglar Drowling (Lvl 60 TR, Saboteur) - Lady Rowanne Firehair, Heartwarder of Sune (Lvl 33 DC) - Satella, Sensate (LvL 44 CW, Renegade, Non-Active)
do you even know what the GWF role is? Its AoE dps tank... yes tank!
GWF is designed to hit the adds on boss fights, and aoe them down and hold some aggro off the clerics etc
lol... none of the GWFs that complain on these forums understand that. They want it all. They want high defense, high mobility, high aoe damage, high burst damage, high hp. Might as well give them Heal too cause once they get everything, they'll cry that clerics heals better than them.
My GWF is pretty uber so I honestly don't understand the complaints about GWF.
lol... none of the GWFs that complain on these forums understand that. They want it all. They want high defense, high mobility, high aoe damage, high burst damage, high hp. Might as well give them Heal too cause once they get everything, they'll cry that clerics heals better than them.
My GWF is pretty uber so I honestly don't understand the complaints about GWF.
because too much comparing to other game, which is not hack-n-slash either, less try to read all skill and feats so can build properly which is main property of D&D. at first try I feel GWF need upraisal in power, but after see some GWF play on the field
perhaps there are way to build proper GWF
I dont get the complains about GWF. Its great, if some idiot kick you when you join a dungeon or something for not being a cleric or wizard then they are idiots, it doesnt mean thats something is wrong with the class. My english is not that great btw, and i dont mean to offend anyone.
lol... none of the GWFs that complain on these forums understand that. They want it all. They want high defense, high mobility, high aoe damage, high burst damage, high hp. Might as well give them Heal too cause once they get everything, they'll cry that clerics heals better than them.
My GWF is pretty uber so I honestly don't understand the complaints about GWF.
I think the GWF's AOE against weaker adds works fine, problem is when he's done killing all those adds and is left alone against a boss, he does lousy 1 on 1 damage.
Now in a team situation, the GWF hardly ever gets a chance to be to AoE damage dealer, because the CW is knocking adds out of the GWF's attack range as soon as the GWF can get to a group of them to attack. it's the most annoying thing about running dungeons/skirmishes try doing what damage you can to mobs, and the CW one shots the entire group.
1) Tab skill needs to be more or less revamped. It's the only tab skill/special which has practically NO combat advantages unless traited, and has little synergy with other skills anyway.
Suggestion: The first enemy targeted and attacked is marked unless switched by tabbing a different enemy. This mark can be moved by tabbing a different enemy, and is refreshed if you attack the same enemy within 3 seconds. Tabbing is now melee range only.
(Following applies to any kind of marks applied by you, not just by this special) Marks are now removed after 3 seconds instead of when hit by marked enemy. Marked enemies deals 5% less damage to party members other than yourself. Whenever a marked enemy misses an attack on you (or it is blocked)(this means an attack targeting someone else counts, but a multi-target attack which also hits you doesn't), your next attack to marked enemy deals 20% more damage. (essentially trying to emulate Combat Challenge)
Enhanced marks, in addition to the previous bonuses, also increase mark duration by 1 second per rank.
(This should significantly reduce the AoE Aggro abilities of a GF, in exchange for significantly increased Single target capability)
2) Blocking needs to be looked into. At higher end dungeons, blocking becomes more or less worthless, simply because it doesn't block various type of knockdowns, and/or gets completely removed in a single strong attack. Yes, running out of the damage zone is an option. But everyone else can do that while still keeping their sprint/dodge.
Suggestion: Any attack can at MOST remove half of the block gauge. In addition, Enhanced block reduces the maximum block gauge an attack can remove further by 5% each rank. Lastly, while blocking, you CANNOT be knocked down/prone. You can still be knocked back, at reduced strength.
lol... none of the GWFs that complain on these forums understand that. They want it all. They want high defense, high mobility, high aoe damage, high burst damage, high hp. Might as well give them Heal too cause once they get everything, they'll cry that clerics heals better than them.
My GWF is pretty uber so I honestly don't understand the complaints about GWF.
I think the GWF's AOE against weaker adds works fine, problem is when he's done killing all those adds and is left alone against a boss, he does lousy 1 on 1 damage.
Now in a team situation, the GWF hardly ever gets a chance to be to AoE damage dealer, because the CW is knocking adds out of the GWF's attack range as soon as the GWF can get to a group of them to attack. it's the most annoying thing about running dungeons/skirmishes try doing what damage you can to mobs, and the CW one shots the entire group.
I think the GWF's AOE against weaker adds works fine, problem is when he's done killing all those adds and is left alone against a boss, he does lousy 1 on 1 damage.
Now in a team situation, the GWF hardly ever gets a chance to be to AoE damage dealer, because the CW is knocking adds out of the GWF's attack range as soon as the GWF can get to a group of them to attack. it's the most annoying thing about running dungeons/skirmishes try doing what damage you can to mobs, and the CW one shots the entire group.
thats is a Solo type CW ... not all CW work that way. some is doing focus battle, grouping the adds so GWF can do his job, isnt that team work? 1-on-1 on bosses isnt that what GF or TR do?
Seriously! You know this game is BETA! Proof positive in a screen of a GWF I made with busted starting stats. The "random" rolled stats were flipped by mistake giving the low stats to the GWF key stat attributes instead.
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mungo112Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 25Arc User
I agree, GF is Guardian Fighter, not Guardian, not Paladin, not Defender ... it is Fighter. its FIGHT and GUARD, not GUARD only. every class has it own ability and job, not everyone is going YOLO!, or SPARTA!, that what call TEAMING UP. so if you can only do SOLO dont play skirmish/dungeon/PvP Domination, just play story quest or grind fest.
Comments
Thanks for the threadcap, Knoteskad. :-/
Your GF class is a big steamy pile of dog <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>.
Please take a hearty bite and lemme know what you think!
I read it.
And... what?
How so? What should they change? WHAT DO YOU WANT (beyond a psychic dev team)?
Nice, productive feedback there. I wish people like you would just, like, never speak or type, basically.
The problem with the GF is that it has lots of fans, too, people who (in this very thread!) are saying what they like about it. Obviously if they completely changed the class, they'd tick off a bunch of people. Clearly there are people (like you) who'd like something different, maybe completely different or maybe just different in the specialization paths. But since "dog <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>" is all you're capable of, you're very unlikely to ever get what you want out of basically any gaming studio ever.
Good luck with those communication skills, though!
[SIGPIC]Captain Electric and the Sapien Spider[/SIGPIC]
"YES, PLEASE"
Vote YES for the Foundry in Champions Online.
@Captain-Electric | CoH/Virtue veteran | Proud new Champion
You just lost 100 street cred with reading comprehension failure of epic magnitudes. Go back to school and learn to learn.
Occam's Razor makes the cutting clean.
If you use classic D&D damage as a reference. A rogue with daggers does 1d4 damage per hit, while a fighter with a greatsword does 2d6 damage per hit. Now admittedly a Rogue with 2 daggers is going to have more attacks than the GWF but the GWF should do 3 times the damage per hit especially against single targets.
Just look at it realistically, what does more damage if you were to use it in the real world a 12 inch dagger or a 6 foot long greatsword. Sure you can cut or stab more times with the dagger but the sword only needs 1 hit to do massive damage.
Now I don't want the Trickster Rogue nerfed they are fine with the damage they do. It's just the GWF needs a buff it shouldn't take a half-orc with 25 strength and a greatsword 20 hits to take out single non-boss targets.
You can put lipstick on it and call it Percy, that does make it a pig called Percy. Cryptic can call it what they like but when they started taking money their obligations to thier paying customers changed. It irritates me when people parrot the beta mantra, it clearly isn't, no NDA, taking money, no limit on participation, its released.
Keep telling yourself that.
I sometimes pre-purchase games on Steam for alpha or beta access, with the full knowledge that I'm buying a half-baked, buggy as heck game; but I've done it a few times so that I could get my feedback into the game and show my support for a few niche genres I care about.
Look people, drop the silly semantics. The beta tag, especially when put on a game that's accepting money, is partly slapped on as an invitation, and partly slapped on as a warning. If you ignored the latter part, the warning, then you've probably got problems that I can't solve for you on an Internet forum.
[SIGPIC]Captain Electric and the Sapien Spider[/SIGPIC]
"YES, PLEASE"
Vote YES for the Foundry in Champions Online.
@Captain-Electric | CoH/Virtue veteran | Proud new Champion
I'm not speaking about Focused Destroyer (it's bad because Steel Blitz is superior as Destroyer for a damage passive), but the last feat of the Destroyer tree, which is actually needed to give you the Action Point spam.
- Titania Silverblade, the Iron Rose of Myth Drannor (Lvl 60 GWF, Destroyer)
- Gwyneth, the Cowardly Cat Burglar Drowling (Lvl 60 TR, Saboteur)
- Lady Rowanne Firehair, Heartwarder of Sune (Lvl 33 DC)
- Satella, Sensate (LvL 44 CW, Renegade, Non-Active)
Check Steppenkat's Foundry Quest Reviews!
Perhaps a Lifesteal buff would be appropriate to buff Unstoppable. It would definitely feel intuitive and give you an incentive to utilize all that gained attack speed! Perhaps something like 10% LS, that would be sweet.
This is one of the reasons why I think the Acolyte is interesting for the GWF since she tends to draw less aggro and could synergize better with the class' kit.
- Titania Silverblade, the Iron Rose of Myth Drannor (Lvl 60 GWF, Destroyer)
- Gwyneth, the Cowardly Cat Burglar Drowling (Lvl 60 TR, Saboteur)
- Lady Rowanne Firehair, Heartwarder of Sune (Lvl 33 DC)
- Satella, Sensate (LvL 44 CW, Renegade, Non-Active)
Check Steppenkat's Foundry Quest Reviews!
LOL, why don't you just build life steal with enchants then?
i agree with these one i have a GWF and making a GF as long as u know how to play them they are ok sure they don't have the burst damage that CW can dish out and they cant crit as much as rogues do but they can last long in clashes it's a battle for endurance when using them (that's my point of view) the longer you last in team fights the better without GWF and GF rogues can easily kill other classes everyone has its purpose if u want to crit more then go for rogue if u want burst go for CW. just sharing my opinion no offense meant.
Yes, that's an option, but I think that is an underwhelming option. The stat itself doesn't give a lot of % LS, you need to pump lots and lots and the sole gain from Enchantments doesn't feel enough.
- Titania Silverblade, the Iron Rose of Myth Drannor (Lvl 60 GWF, Destroyer)
- Gwyneth, the Cowardly Cat Burglar Drowling (Lvl 60 TR, Saboteur)
- Lady Rowanne Firehair, Heartwarder of Sune (Lvl 33 DC)
- Satella, Sensate (LvL 44 CW, Renegade, Non-Active)
Check Steppenkat's Foundry Quest Reviews!
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
GWF is designed to hit the adds on boss fights, and aoe them down and hold some aggro off the clerics etc
lol... none of the GWFs that complain on these forums understand that. They want it all. They want high defense, high mobility, high aoe damage, high burst damage, high hp. Might as well give them Heal too cause once they get everything, they'll cry that clerics heals better than them.
My GWF is pretty uber so I honestly don't understand the complaints about GWF.
perhaps there are way to build proper GWF
I think the GWF's AOE against weaker adds works fine, problem is when he's done killing all those adds and is left alone against a boss, he does lousy 1 on 1 damage.
Now in a team situation, the GWF hardly ever gets a chance to be to AoE damage dealer, because the CW is knocking adds out of the GWF's attack range as soon as the GWF can get to a group of them to attack. it's the most annoying thing about running dungeons/skirmishes try doing what damage you can to mobs, and the CW one shots the entire group.
people who know how to play play the game, not the forums.
1) Tab skill needs to be more or less revamped. It's the only tab skill/special which has practically NO combat advantages unless traited, and has little synergy with other skills anyway.
Suggestion: The first enemy targeted and attacked is marked unless switched by tabbing a different enemy. This mark can be moved by tabbing a different enemy, and is refreshed if you attack the same enemy within 3 seconds. Tabbing is now melee range only.
(Following applies to any kind of marks applied by you, not just by this special) Marks are now removed after 3 seconds instead of when hit by marked enemy. Marked enemies deals 5% less damage to party members other than yourself. Whenever a marked enemy misses an attack on you (or it is blocked)(this means an attack targeting someone else counts, but a multi-target attack which also hits you doesn't), your next attack to marked enemy deals 20% more damage. (essentially trying to emulate Combat Challenge)
Enhanced marks, in addition to the previous bonuses, also increase mark duration by 1 second per rank.
(This should significantly reduce the AoE Aggro abilities of a GF, in exchange for significantly increased Single target capability)
2) Blocking needs to be looked into. At higher end dungeons, blocking becomes more or less worthless, simply because it doesn't block various type of knockdowns, and/or gets completely removed in a single strong attack. Yes, running out of the damage zone is an option. But everyone else can do that while still keeping their sprint/dodge.
Suggestion: Any attack can at MOST remove half of the block gauge. In addition, Enhanced block reduces the maximum block gauge an attack can remove further by 5% each rank. Lastly, while blocking, you CANNOT be knocked down/prone. You can still be knocked back, at reduced strength.
This is an open beta. Start treating it like one.
They do have a heal (restoring strike) :rolleyes:
This is an open beta. Start treating it like one.
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?216301-An-Inconvenient-Truth-Trickshaw-s-GWF-Leveling-Tips
My build isn't exactly the same as his, but it's very close. I actually got my build from him with a bit of tweaking.
I said "they'll cry that clerics heals better than them" :P I play a GWF lol.
thats is a Solo type CW ... not all CW work that way. some is doing focus battle, grouping the adds so GWF can do his job, isnt that team work? 1-on-1 on bosses isnt that what GF or TR do?
If you're a GWF, follow this guide, and still suck? Just uninstall the game or go play another class. Stop making us look bad.
http://neverwinter.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Classes
Remove pvp from the game and balance the classes for pve
for me I rather like to do this:
- like a team play, do a team playing style
- like PvP, do it PvP style
- like a solo running, do it solo style
you can't mess it up together, like have a character good is PvP, great in Solo, Great in PvP ... dont be to greedy people