I think the GWF's AOE against weaker adds works fine, problem is when he's done killing all those adds and is left alone against a boss, he does lousy 1 on 1 damage.
Now in a team situation, the GWF hardly ever gets a chance to be to AoE damage dealer, because the CW is knocking adds out of the GWF's attack range as soon as the GWF can get to a group of them to attack. it's the most annoying thing about running dungeons/skirmishes try doing what damage you can to mobs, and the CW one shots the entire group.
GWF works wonderfully against adds, however surely you do not expect GWF to be strong in both aoe and single target same time? That would pretty much make other dps class redundant? If you spec for aoe damage then good for you as you have a GWF who specialized in aoe, if you spec in single damage then good for you again but don't whine about how your aoe sux since you specialized in single target. The same goes for other classes.
I'm actually sorry you had rubbish CWs in your party. I am a CW and I never knock adds away, in fact I always do my best to group them in a nice tight group as it would be easier for me to CC and aoe, as well as my pt members to do so.
If I were to whine about my choose class, I would whine "ohmygerddddd craptic why mah CW so soft.. they need to tank better then Gf and heal better then cleric... ohmygerrrrddddd nerf rogue too, they can hide and daily super damage us, give us hide and super uber haxxor damage too~!!!"
And thus it will be a never ending story. Each class has it own role, instead of whining about your class being garbage, how about actually studying and playing your class the way it should be played?
As a lvl 52 GF I have to agree that the class needs work. Yes, Guardian and Fighter. Going up the dps tree I can be a decent Guardian. Gods help me if I touch the other trees, the tank trees, because I'm freaking hosed. I'm not worried about being a dps beast, I want to tank, not be some half-arsed dps monkey.
For now, I improvise, I adapt, I overcome, yeah I dps. But for God's sake fix the class so I can do this <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> right....
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jn2002dk1Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
GWF works wonderfully against adds, however surely you do not expect GWF to be strong in both aoe and single target same time? That would pretty much make other dps class redundant? If you spec for aoe damage then good for you as you have a GWF who specialized in aoe, if you spec in single damage then good for you again but don't whine about how your aoe sux since you specialized in single target. The same goes for other classes.
I'm actually sorry you had rubbish CWs in your party. I am a CW and I never knock adds away, in fact I always do my best to group them in a nice tight group as it would be easier for me to CC and aoe, as well as my pt members to do so.
If I were to whine about my choose class, I would whine "ohmygerddddd craptic why mah CW so soft.. they need to tank better then Gf and heal better then cleric... ohmygerrrrddddd nerf rogue too, they can hide and daily super damage us, give us hide and super uber haxxor damage too~!!!"
And thus it will be a never ending story. Each class has it own role, instead of whining about your class being garbage, how about actually studying and playing your class the way it should be played?
Right but how does that help with never getting invited to groups and getting insta kicked from random groups just because of your class?
Not that i disagree with your sentiment but it's easy for a CW to say since they're in very high demand at the moment
Right but how does that help with never getting invited to groups and getting insta kicked from random groups just because of your class?
Not that i disagree with your sentiment but it's easy for a CW to say since they're in very high demand at the moment
It's actually player's perception when they claim certain classes are not good and etc etc etc.
Try looking at their point of view, here we have a slight perception that GWF may not be useful, then on the other hand the players of GWF themselves whined about how useless they are... human psychology will automatically assumed it to be true and hence GWF no matter how good the class is will always be perceived as useless. Try collectively making posts about how godlike GWF is in pve or pvp... after a couple of weeks, there will be a subtle change in perception of the class lol... it's really human psychology talking not the actual usefulness of the class.
CW being always useful in PVE for instance is not entirely true, I'm sure you have met <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> of a CW who keeps pushing mobs away. Shall we say then CWs are useless in pve because of players who do not know their class?
The same goes for the myth that we need healers in dungeons. I've been in queued epic dungeons which when the queue doesn't give us a cleric, the party leader and it's members simply give up citing it's impossible to do without a cleric. Again this is player's perception, not real facts. I've successfully completed epic dungeons with nothing but 3 CW, and also 1 CW, 1 GWF and 1 rogue (the CW being me).
If you want your class to be accepted by the community.... how about you start accepting your class yourself 1st???
When GF's the fckn tank of the game does way more damage than the GFW then we have a problem. In fact, the whole game is problematic tank GF can't tank because the game is coded in a way where mobs completely ignores who's upfront and go all the way to the back of the party and attack the clerics and wizards ad because of that reason, anyone who builds TANK GF is building his character wrong and should be kicked out of any party including skirmishes (lol).
Anyone that is actually good cannot die to a gwf in PvP nor get outdps' in dungeons it doesnt matter if the dungeon has tons of trash mobs really, Clerics with their blue healing circle and massive defense can kill a GFW on full HP easily. Having a GFW in PvP on your team is the equivalent of having a clown debating against scientist intellectuals. It's "ok" to have ONE GFW in dungeons but that spot can easily be filled by a tank built DPS, CW, TR or another Cleric, pretty much everyone.
People saying that GFW is a tank that does AOE damage should know that CW does MORE AOE damageand also people saying that this game is in the beta phase SHOULD KNOW that they are making profit out of ridiculously expensive 200$ founders pack so no, the game is released witht he tag "Open beta" on it, looks like they were lusting for money they coudn't wait fixing the game for ripping the money out of the suckers.
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jn2002dk1Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
It's actually player's perception when they claim certain classes are not good and etc etc etc.
Try looking at their point of view, here we have a slight perception that GWF may not be useful, then on the other hand the players of GWF themselves whined about how useless they are... human psychology will automatically assumed it to be true and hence GWF no matter how good the class is will always be perceived as useless. Try collectively making posts about how godlike GWF is in pve or pvp... after a couple of weeks, there will be a subtle change in perception of the class lol... it's really human psychology talking not the actual usefulness of the class.
CW being always useful in PVE for instance is not entirely true, I'm sure you have met <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> of a CW who keeps pushing mobs away. Shall we say then CWs are useless in pve because of players who do not know their class?
The same goes for the myth that we need healers in dungeons. I've been in queued epic dungeons which when the queue doesn't give us a cleric, the party leader and it's members simply give up citing it's impossible to do without a cleric. Again this is player's perception, not real facts. I've successfully completed epic dungeons with nothing but 3 CW, and also 1 CW, 1 GWF and 1 rogue (the CW being me).
If you want your class to be accepted by the community.... how about you start accepting your class yourself 1st???
What a load of <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> sorry
Please spare me your dime store psychology and face the issue here:
The reason why GWF are kicked instantly from parties is because a TR or a CW brings so much more to the table. That's it. Yes, there is a perception that GWFs suck. You know why? Because they do infact suck compared to a TR or a CW
Accept my class first? What the ****? If i didn't accept my class do you think i would have levelled it to 60? jeez
Oh and about CW, so because there are some bad players CWs aren't in a better place than GWF? Do you understand how ridiculous that statement is?
There are bad players of every class but that's got nothing to do with a class being OP or UP
Go level a GWF to 60 instead of playing your FOTM CW then we'll talk. Until then you're talking out of your ***
Remove pvp from the game and balance the classes for pve
Or, leave PvP in the game, balance the classes for PvE, and people who wish to PvP can just not use the classes that don't work well in it. The vast majority of players won't care.
lol... none of the GWFs that complain on these forums understand that. They want it all. They want high defense, high mobility, high aoe damage, high burst damage, high hp. Might as well give them Heal too cause once they get everything, they'll cry that clerics heals better than them.
My GWF is pretty uber so I honestly don't understand the complaints about GWF.
This is overstated. A lot of GWF complaints probably stem from the weakness of the class for the first levels. From level 1-10 or so you have 1 weak aoe attack and one super weak single target attack. Around level 20 you finally have enough aoe skills, if you chose them (a novice may not pick their powers optimally and could even opt in for a single target attack, which is fail) to rapidly kill the trash mobs and then have a slow grind against the tougher mobs. 20 levels is a LONG time before being able to perform your CORE ROLE reasonably well. By then, the player is probably going "this class is awful" and coming to the forums to complain about it or figure out what they are doing wrong.
Neither class is broken beyond repair. GWF should get the GF cleave as their first attack IMHO, as a replacement for that dumb one that takes 20 seconds to wind up before doing pathetic damage. That would go a long, long way to fixing the class (alternative: swap the at will aoe skill for the windup in the tree, problem solved). The initial at-will single target skill should do about 2x its current damage. Still pathetic vs a rogue, but you could at least kill a tier 3 enemy (the ones that are just below a boss in difficulty, like an ogre) in a reasonable amount of time. Not that an ogre is hard, but they do take a while to chop down.
GF is easier to fix. The aggro problem is universal and more of a problem with cleric class than GF class. Clerics need less aggro (problem here is doubleup aggro from spells that both heal and damage at the same time, at least in part). Fix the clerics and GF is not *too* bad. Second, I would give the GF a sprint or roll or *something* for combat mobility. Third, their single target dps needs to be increased slightly so that a player can build for defense & durability but still function in solo play without a second set of gear. Currently, the only real choice is to build for dps at the expense of durability (mostly due to the aggro issue).
As a guardian fighter I would like to state that the current paragon available isn't even the a tanking paragon. When the tank path gets released there is a high chance we will see something radically different with threat and defensive cd's.
GF is easier to fix. The aggro problem is universal and more of a problem with cleric class than GF class. Clerics need less aggro (problem here is doubleup aggro from spells that both heal and damage at the same time, at least in part). Fix the clerics and GF is not *too* bad. Second, I would give the GF a sprint or roll or *something* for combat mobility.
I don't want a sprint added to the class. It would easily fix some problems but I think they should just not be lazy and come up with something different in its place. The immobility of the class makes it more fun to tank bosses because you have to decide whether you are going to block or dodge before the next attack even starts.
What a load of <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> sorry
Please spare me your dime store psychology and face the issue here:
The reason why GWF are kicked instantly from parties is because a TR or a CW brings so much more to the table. That's it. Yes, there is a perception that GWFs suck. You know why? Because they do infact suck compared to a TR or a CW
Accept my class first? What the ****? If i didn't accept my class do you think i would have levelled it to 60? jeez
Oh and about CW, so because there are some bad players CWs aren't in a better place than GWF? Do you understand how ridiculous that statement is?
There are bad players of every class but that's got nothing to do with a class being OP or UP
Go level a GWF to 60 instead of playing your FOTM CW then we'll talk. Until then you're talking out of your ***
I like how people reply a simple non-expletive post with rudeness. Good job on your choice of words, it really does reflect your mentality. Is it really hard to prove me wrong in a civilized manner? Or were you so uneducated/uncivil that you find yourself unable to?
Regardless, it's the same old story in every MMORPG i've played and some that I have the good fortune of being a GM and FM for.
Developers generally will not make nerfs or buffs to a character until and unless someone somewhere comes up with a report that ask and answer the following questions:- What then would you consider as balanced? It's very easy to whine how useless of a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> your class is, did you define how underpower GWF is with regards to various different builds and with comparison to other classes and their different builds? Did you forward a detail proposal as to how each class should balance out by considering all build types but assuming all items to be of equal strength? Do all that and the developer I am sure will take your claims seriously, because if you don't, the developer's perception would probably be... as I quote you "you're talking out of your ***".
GF is easier to fix. The aggro problem is universal and more of a problem with cleric class than GF class. Clerics need less aggro (problem here is doubleup aggro from spells that both heal and damage at the same time, at least in part). Fix the clerics and GF is not *too* bad. Second, I would give the GF a sprint or roll or *something* for combat mobility. Third, their single target dps needs to be increased slightly so that a player can build for defense & durability but still function in solo play without a second set of gear. Currently, the only real choice is to build for dps at the expense of durability (mostly due to the aggro issue).
I do agree with the statement that GF needs an improvement in terms of agro holding since it's their job as a tank. Clerics taking agro is quite a norm I think.. but I believe if PWE improves the agro holding capabilities of GF, or perhaps also add an agro meter (much like the total damage meter and etc) it would be much of an improvement.
This is true, and the animation bears it out, too. It isn't a straight-forward thrust, but an angled thrust. You can stab three, maybe more bad guys, like a shish kabob!
_
[SIGPIC]Captain Electric and the Sapien Spider[/SIGPIC]
GWF works wonderfully against adds, however surely you do not expect GWF to be strong in both aoe and single target same time? That would pretty much make other dps class redundant? If you spec for aoe damage then good for you as you have a GWF who specialized in aoe, if you spec in single damage then good for you again but don't whine about how your aoe sux since you specialized in single target. The same goes for other classes.
I'm actually sorry you had rubbish CWs in your party. I am a CW and I never knock adds away, in fact I always do my best to group them in a nice tight group as it would be easier for me to CC and aoe, as well as my pt members to do so.
If I were to whine about my choose class, I would whine "ohmygerddddd craptic why mah CW so soft.. they need to tank better then Gf and heal better then cleric... ohmygerrrrddddd nerf rogue too, they can hide and daily super damage us, give us hide and super uber haxxor damage too~!!!"
And thus it will be a never ending story. Each class has it own role, instead of whining about your class being garbage, how about actually studying and playing your class the way it should be played?
In a team situation it's true each one has their role to play and other classes should do more single target damage than the gwf. However I'm talking about solo PvE and quite simply when the GWF is done clearing out all the boss's adds with those wonderful AOEs he's stuck 1 on 1 against a boss with a million hp (an exaggeration I know) and has single target at wills that only do 300 points per hit and if he's lucky a 3000 point daily or encounter every once in a while slowly trying to wear down a boss, who's popping pots himself. They need to be able to do more damage against these targets. it shouldn't take a GWF 10 swings to kill a single bandit officer at level 25, and that includes unstoppable, restoring strike, and knockdown in the rotation.
In a team situation it's true each one has their role to play and other classes should do more single target damage than the gwf. However I'm talking about solo PvE and quite simply when the GWF is done clearing out all the boss's adds with those wonderful AOEs he's stuck 1 on 1 against a boss with a million hp (an exaggeration I know) and has single target at wills that only do 300 points per hit and if he's lucky a 3000 point daily or encounter every once in a while slowly trying to wear down a boss, who's popping pots himself. They need to be able to do more damage against these targets. it shouldn't take a GWF 10 swings to kill a single bandit officer at level 25, and that includes unstoppable, restoring strike, and knockdown in the rotation.
I think we can agree to disagree, balancing, buffing or nerfing a character requires a detailed study into how it will effect other class...
Let's consider damage in a relatively fair manner as per my personal opinion since you brought it up. GWF already have wonderful aoe's as you put it. GWF is to me valuable in helping clear adds as an off-tank, I would actually welcome GWFs in any dungeons I go to. However would it not then be overpowering a class if GWF is given wonderful single mob damage as well? If a GWF is given wonderful aoe plus single target damage, why then would I need TR as main single target damage dealer when GWF as an off-tank is all in a package tank and offense? Should this happen how then would you balance the other class to make them useful in a team since GWF is now both a AoE and single target killing machine?
Let's now look at other class and the significance of their damage in the PVE sense. TR is gifted with a awesome single target damage which is why they are almost always a boss main damage dealer, but when it comes to handling crowds.... well... I think u know what happens. CW is gifted with decent single target DOTs not as strong as TR and CW is also gifted with AoEs. CW AoEs however are weaker compared to GWFs, what we have as an advantage over GWF's AoE is our ability to crowd control. A CW is important in the sense they keep boss debuffed and at the same time make surgical crowd controls on mass mobs for the other members of the team to dispatch. GFs have not so strong damage, significant enough to contribute in terms of damaging for instance boss but still not that strong, however they make up for it by their ability to tank. Good GFs that I had the pleasure of running dungeons with always are the first to attract attention of mobs or boss, which I then do my job of CC-ing the mobs the GF is tankings, to which my other team members such as GWF work to take the CC-ed mobs out. Although I must admit the Agro mechanics need working. Healers.. are healers.. enuf said... they lead the way in terms of survivability with their heals and buffs. Healers are generally rubbish when their ability to heal or buff is removed via disables by mobs or overwhelmed by mobs.
I think most of this fuzz comes from the playerbase, not cryptic, do keep in mind IT ARE THE PLAYERS that are unwilling to let a GWF join there dungeons, this is not cryptics fault and it wil never be. And i am not saying this because i am a fanboy ore whatever
(i enjoy the game, but fanboy with all the glitches/exploits is a bit much ), it is basicly people refusing to take on a challenge, watching streams and whatever , and comming to a general concensus that GWF suck, while clearly some builds/tactics do work.
Publics just want cheese, and adding a challenge to that cheese would be like adding salt to that cheese for them. However i blame the community for allowing this concensus to exist, and not cryptic. Sure they could balance the game more (DuH) but some things will always remain optimal,
Easyest solutions to balance this issue IMO,
make invisible cliffs on EVERY ledge in dungeons = suddenly u need GWF to splash adds
make threat work = suddenly GF becomes usefull since u can no longer toss mobs to dead
easy like pie, but im not sure they wil implement this.
I predict once archer is released TR wil be out of the picture and can join the GF/GWF blacklist....(depending how much dps archer carries)
Edit : i just read some of the post above mine, wel considering TR has massive single target dps then why do they have "tank" like hp?, this offsets balance equaly much, since atm they can tank the boss....biggest issue with GWF is imo the long animation sequences, if the animations where smaller he would be more usefull in a sense. Clearly balance patch is required, but biggest issue wil remain the community in this issue, wil they vote Y/N after the patch....
Petram Sacram - I am no devine cleric, i am a Gaurdian fighter in disguise with better threat and supportive spells -
Comments
GWF works wonderfully against adds, however surely you do not expect GWF to be strong in both aoe and single target same time? That would pretty much make other dps class redundant? If you spec for aoe damage then good for you as you have a GWF who specialized in aoe, if you spec in single damage then good for you again but don't whine about how your aoe sux since you specialized in single target. The same goes for other classes.
I'm actually sorry you had rubbish CWs in your party. I am a CW and I never knock adds away, in fact I always do my best to group them in a nice tight group as it would be easier for me to CC and aoe, as well as my pt members to do so.
If I were to whine about my choose class, I would whine "ohmygerddddd craptic why mah CW so soft.. they need to tank better then Gf and heal better then cleric... ohmygerrrrddddd nerf rogue too, they can hide and daily super damage us, give us hide and super uber haxxor damage too~!!!"
And thus it will be a never ending story. Each class has it own role, instead of whining about your class being garbage, how about actually studying and playing your class the way it should be played?
For now, I improvise, I adapt, I overcome, yeah I dps. But for God's sake fix the class so I can do this <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> right....
Not that i disagree with your sentiment but it's easy for a CW to say since they're in very high demand at the moment
It's actually player's perception when they claim certain classes are not good and etc etc etc.
Try looking at their point of view, here we have a slight perception that GWF may not be useful, then on the other hand the players of GWF themselves whined about how useless they are... human psychology will automatically assumed it to be true and hence GWF no matter how good the class is will always be perceived as useless. Try collectively making posts about how godlike GWF is in pve or pvp... after a couple of weeks, there will be a subtle change in perception of the class lol... it's really human psychology talking not the actual usefulness of the class.
CW being always useful in PVE for instance is not entirely true, I'm sure you have met <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> of a CW who keeps pushing mobs away. Shall we say then CWs are useless in pve because of players who do not know their class?
The same goes for the myth that we need healers in dungeons. I've been in queued epic dungeons which when the queue doesn't give us a cleric, the party leader and it's members simply give up citing it's impossible to do without a cleric. Again this is player's perception, not real facts. I've successfully completed epic dungeons with nothing but 3 CW, and also 1 CW, 1 GWF and 1 rogue (the CW being me).
If you want your class to be accepted by the community.... how about you start accepting your class yourself 1st???
So basically everything has always been perfectly balanced and it is all about perception?
Well I guess that at least your argument is internally consistent, in the sense that if you believe and say it, that does makes it actually true.....
Anyone that is actually good cannot die to a gwf in PvP nor get outdps' in dungeons it doesnt matter if the dungeon has tons of trash mobs really, Clerics with their blue healing circle and massive defense can kill a GFW on full HP easily. Having a GFW in PvP on your team is the equivalent of having a clown debating against scientist intellectuals. It's "ok" to have ONE GFW in dungeons but that spot can easily be filled by a tank built DPS, CW, TR or another Cleric, pretty much everyone.
People saying that GFW is a tank that does AOE damage should know that CW does MORE AOE damageand also people saying that this game is in the beta phase SHOULD KNOW that they are making profit out of ridiculously expensive 200$ founders pack so no, the game is released witht he tag "Open beta" on it, looks like they were lusting for money they coudn't wait fixing the game for ripping the money out of the suckers.
Please spare me your dime store psychology and face the issue here:
The reason why GWF are kicked instantly from parties is because a TR or a CW brings so much more to the table. That's it. Yes, there is a perception that GWFs suck. You know why? Because they do infact suck compared to a TR or a CW
Accept my class first? What the ****? If i didn't accept my class do you think i would have levelled it to 60? jeez
Oh and about CW, so because there are some bad players CWs aren't in a better place than GWF? Do you understand how ridiculous that statement is?
There are bad players of every class but that's got nothing to do with a class being OP or UP
Go level a GWF to 60 instead of playing your FOTM CW then we'll talk. Until then you're talking out of your ***
Or, leave PvP in the game, balance the classes for PvE, and people who wish to PvP can just not use the classes that don't work well in it. The vast majority of players won't care.
This is overstated. A lot of GWF complaints probably stem from the weakness of the class for the first levels. From level 1-10 or so you have 1 weak aoe attack and one super weak single target attack. Around level 20 you finally have enough aoe skills, if you chose them (a novice may not pick their powers optimally and could even opt in for a single target attack, which is fail) to rapidly kill the trash mobs and then have a slow grind against the tougher mobs. 20 levels is a LONG time before being able to perform your CORE ROLE reasonably well. By then, the player is probably going "this class is awful" and coming to the forums to complain about it or figure out what they are doing wrong.
Neither class is broken beyond repair. GWF should get the GF cleave as their first attack IMHO, as a replacement for that dumb one that takes 20 seconds to wind up before doing pathetic damage. That would go a long, long way to fixing the class (alternative: swap the at will aoe skill for the windup in the tree, problem solved). The initial at-will single target skill should do about 2x its current damage. Still pathetic vs a rogue, but you could at least kill a tier 3 enemy (the ones that are just below a boss in difficulty, like an ogre) in a reasonable amount of time. Not that an ogre is hard, but they do take a while to chop down.
GF is easier to fix. The aggro problem is universal and more of a problem with cleric class than GF class. Clerics need less aggro (problem here is doubleup aggro from spells that both heal and damage at the same time, at least in part). Fix the clerics and GF is not *too* bad. Second, I would give the GF a sprint or roll or *something* for combat mobility. Third, their single target dps needs to be increased slightly so that a player can build for defense & durability but still function in solo play without a second set of gear. Currently, the only real choice is to build for dps at the expense of durability (mostly due to the aggro issue).
I don't want a sprint added to the class. It would easily fix some problems but I think they should just not be lazy and come up with something different in its place. The immobility of the class makes it more fun to tank bosses because you have to decide whether you are going to block or dodge before the next attack even starts.
I like how people reply a simple non-expletive post with rudeness. Good job on your choice of words, it really does reflect your mentality. Is it really hard to prove me wrong in a civilized manner? Or were you so uneducated/uncivil that you find yourself unable to?
Regardless, it's the same old story in every MMORPG i've played and some that I have the good fortune of being a GM and FM for.
Developers generally will not make nerfs or buffs to a character until and unless someone somewhere comes up with a report that ask and answer the following questions:- What then would you consider as balanced? It's very easy to whine how useless of a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> your class is, did you define how underpower GWF is with regards to various different builds and with comparison to other classes and their different builds? Did you forward a detail proposal as to how each class should balance out by considering all build types but assuming all items to be of equal strength? Do all that and the developer I am sure will take your claims seriously, because if you don't, the developer's perception would probably be... as I quote you "you're talking out of your ***".
I do agree with the statement that GF needs an improvement in terms of agro holding since it's their job as a tank. Clerics taking agro is quite a norm I think.. but I believe if PWE improves the agro holding capabilities of GF, or perhaps also add an agro meter (much like the total damage meter and etc) it would be much of an improvement.
This is true, and the animation bears it out, too. It isn't a straight-forward thrust, but an angled thrust. You can stab three, maybe more bad guys, like a shish kabob!
[SIGPIC]Captain Electric and the Sapien Spider[/SIGPIC]
"YES, PLEASE"
Vote YES for the Foundry in Champions Online.
@Captain-Electric | CoH/Virtue veteran | Proud new Champion
In a team situation it's true each one has their role to play and other classes should do more single target damage than the gwf. However I'm talking about solo PvE and quite simply when the GWF is done clearing out all the boss's adds with those wonderful AOEs he's stuck 1 on 1 against a boss with a million hp (an exaggeration I know) and has single target at wills that only do 300 points per hit and if he's lucky a 3000 point daily or encounter every once in a while slowly trying to wear down a boss, who's popping pots himself. They need to be able to do more damage against these targets. it shouldn't take a GWF 10 swings to kill a single bandit officer at level 25, and that includes unstoppable, restoring strike, and knockdown in the rotation.
I think we can agree to disagree, balancing, buffing or nerfing a character requires a detailed study into how it will effect other class...
Let's consider damage in a relatively fair manner as per my personal opinion since you brought it up. GWF already have wonderful aoe's as you put it. GWF is to me valuable in helping clear adds as an off-tank, I would actually welcome GWFs in any dungeons I go to. However would it not then be overpowering a class if GWF is given wonderful single mob damage as well? If a GWF is given wonderful aoe plus single target damage, why then would I need TR as main single target damage dealer when GWF as an off-tank is all in a package tank and offense? Should this happen how then would you balance the other class to make them useful in a team since GWF is now both a AoE and single target killing machine?
Let's now look at other class and the significance of their damage in the PVE sense. TR is gifted with a awesome single target damage which is why they are almost always a boss main damage dealer, but when it comes to handling crowds.... well... I think u know what happens. CW is gifted with decent single target DOTs not as strong as TR and CW is also gifted with AoEs. CW AoEs however are weaker compared to GWFs, what we have as an advantage over GWF's AoE is our ability to crowd control. A CW is important in the sense they keep boss debuffed and at the same time make surgical crowd controls on mass mobs for the other members of the team to dispatch. GFs have not so strong damage, significant enough to contribute in terms of damaging for instance boss but still not that strong, however they make up for it by their ability to tank. Good GFs that I had the pleasure of running dungeons with always are the first to attract attention of mobs or boss, which I then do my job of CC-ing the mobs the GF is tankings, to which my other team members such as GWF work to take the CC-ed mobs out. Although I must admit the Agro mechanics need working. Healers.. are healers.. enuf said... they lead the way in terms of survivability with their heals and buffs. Healers are generally rubbish when their ability to heal or buff is removed via disables by mobs or overwhelmed by mobs.
(i enjoy the game, but fanboy with all the glitches/exploits is a bit much
Publics just want cheese, and adding a challenge to that cheese would be like adding salt to that cheese for them. However i blame the community for allowing this concensus to exist, and not cryptic. Sure they could balance the game more (DuH) but some things will always remain optimal,
Easyest solutions to balance this issue IMO,
make invisible cliffs on EVERY ledge in dungeons = suddenly u need GWF to splash adds
make threat work = suddenly GF becomes usefull since u can no longer toss mobs to dead
easy like pie, but im not sure they wil implement this.
I predict once archer is released TR wil be out of the picture and can join the GF/GWF blacklist....(depending how much dps archer carries)
Edit : i just read some of the post above mine, wel considering TR has massive single target dps then why do they have "tank" like hp?, this offsets balance equaly much, since atm they can tank the boss....biggest issue with GWF is imo the long animation sequences, if the animations where smaller he would be more usefull in a sense. Clearly balance patch is required, but biggest issue wil remain the community in this issue, wil they vote Y/N after the patch....