1) Remove Astral Shield Stacking.
2) Slightly reduce Overheal Aggro,since you cant avoid it.
3) Slightly increase GWF At-Will damage + Stamina Recovery.
4) Slightly reduce TR HP-Pool.
5) Make GF's Mark a flat XX-Seconds debuff.
6) Blocking incoming damage creates threat.
And voila: The game is enjoyable for every class.
At least in Dungeons.
Dear god that is some rough ideas...
I mean how is blocking an attack going to fix GF. I mean if we cannot get the MOBs attention to even try to hit us this does nothing. Not to mention you need to think of block as dodge. No GF will hold block to generate threat. Block breaks very quickly in boss fights and is an emergancy act.
I do agree marks being on a fix timer is a start. I also think that you need to remember that GF have 3 trees and currently only 1 functions. Conq. The other 2 are just bad.
In a game were DPS is king... there needs to be a very valid reason to use Tactics or Protection. If there is no plan on fixing this just remove the other 2 trees. Because all this does is make new players rage and for the few that stick with it... they are force to respec.
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cihuacoatlMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 1Arc User
edited May 2013
Actually there are a lot more issue that this...
You do know that GF mark targets 1 at a time. So if you pull 5 mobs you have to mark them one at a time. Yes we have to abilities that mark mobs AOE. However the range on both of these abilities is very small. Actually the same size as the cleric blue circle.
This poses a huge problem in most T2 boss fights were adds are everywhere. The clerics is running around like a chicken with their head cut off being chased by every MOB that spawns. Unless these mobs are in the GF range we cannot do <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> to help. Not to mention Marking generates very little threat. We have to actually hit the MOBs, chasing the Cleric. Well we cannot hit and run. Yes another problem... we do not have a ranged attack... another problem. Even if we do get our threat generation abilities off it only lasts for about 3 seconds... then we are back were we started waiting for another ~8 sec while we generate no threat.
GF have a lot of issues...
Did i mention we have about 1/2 dozen completely broken skills/feats. More than that actually I am being very conservative.
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seryiyirisMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 39Arc User
The difference is it takes skill to roll a GF, playing as DC, TR, CW does not take any skill.
But i do agree that GWF could use a bit of "love". And i also think that, most of the TR kids
would ragequit the game immediatly if they attempted to roll a GF into PvP...
"Everybody who outplays me or doesn't roll my class is a no-skill scrub!"
I just want you to see how stupid you sound. But then again, given your posting history, it's hardly surprising.
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iamdoctordeathMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
Yaaa.... let's nerf clerics, so that... we can replace them... with healing GWFs... amirite?
The game is in a really odd place with agro. Imagine the last boss of Frozen Heart done legit without healing agro. How does that even work? No bugging adds, creative pulling, or cleric kiting.
Use the <removed exploit lead-in> to interact with the auction vendor.
I see the inner idiot speaks through you.
Do you know what cleric is?
A healer.
Do you know what core of each successful group in any mmo in existence is?
A healer.
Have fun replacing irreplaceable lol.
This made me smile Anyone who has ever played a Healer knows how this feels right ?
Bori - Renegade Drow - 40 Trickster Rogue - Mindflayer Elocin - Renegade Drow - 39 Devoted Cleric of Selune - Mindflayer
Looking for some Dust of Forum Troll Disappearance? Sprinkle this on any troll to phase shift them out of your plane of existence.
Cleric: remove righteousness and address insane aggro they generate.
GF and GWF: Buff, GF needs more punishing marks that actually means something if mobs try to ignore him, also take a page outta 4E D&D and make all fighter attacks apply marks, and find something more interesting to do with their Tab skill. Also a significant increase in the guard meter, or removal of the guard meter altogether and let it be infinite. Make monsters/players flank or get behind him, or watch for openings.
GWF - Remodel after the 4E Slayer or the Rageblood Barbarian and dedicate this class as a full fledged 2 handed weapon striker, with striker mechanics and role. I am not sure what else can be done, since the real complaint with this class is that is feels like it doesn't know what role it is trying to fill, and therefore doesn't fill a role better than some other class.
WHAT MUST BE DONE! Make the fighters more desirable.
WHAT MUST NOT BE DONE! Make the other classes less desirable instead.
FIX WHAT ISN'T WORKING, NOT BREAK EVERYTHING EQUALLY! BUFF! DO NOT NERF!
Remove Righteousness too and we're gold.
I don't see why Clerics should drink more potions than their group.
agreed with cleric agro how it is thats the most <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> passive to have (heals are 1/2 as effective on self if you didnt know). that or hey they could actually fix agro.
agreed with cleric agro how it is thats the most <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> passive to have (heals are 1/2 as effective on self if you didnt know). that or hey they could actually fix agro.
Not an either or! Fix aggro and remove righteousness. Both are absurd.
Clerics should totally not be able to heal themselves and have to burn a billion more pots than their party mates...said no sane healer design in an MMO ever!
They could simply make righteousness a castable effect
Cooldown = entire instance
Effect = reduce self heal to 50% and transfer 75% threat to GF/GWF (cannot use on CW/TR for obviues grief reasons)
as a side effect heal on self would be 100% durring solo questing and if u dont cast this on somebody, wich would be okay i think?
I would rename this to "Righteous gaurdian" ore something funky, and it could pop up as a request to the person it is cast upon
"player [nickname] has requested u be his gaurdian for this instance accept y/n?"
that way it would promote teamplay in public dungeons, and would give a sense of honor to the tank and a synergy between tank/healer
Suddenly tanks become desireble in t2 dungeons so a cleric can focus on keeping everybody allive instead of running around like a chicken.
Also fix throwing mobs of cliffs, its to **** easy and makes boss fights rediculues....
Petram Sacram - I am no devine cleric, i am a Gaurdian fighter in disguise with better threat and supportive spells -
Wonderful news! Hopefully the devs will take a HUGE look into the TR daily and the TR average survivability, including dodge and the too high amount of hp the class possesses. That class can take too many hits, for dishing out that much of burst dps. Better sooner than later, since all of the special kids are flooding the game with TR - wannabe proness.
What about the CW daily? The GWF daily? The GF daily? The Cleric daily? CW has a daily that can do just as much damage as the TR daily to an opponent with full health. The GWF daily can do just as much damage as the TR daily if built properly. The GF daily can take any class's health from full to 50%. The cleric daily stacked with astral shield makes them invincible for 15 seconds. Why don't you play a TR at level 60 and find out for yourself that you can be killed just as easily by any other classes? Why don't you find out for yourself that TR has the slowest AP build up for their dailies compared to all other classes?
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mewbreyMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 517Bounty Hunter
edited May 2013
I have a feeling that it will be at least another 30+ days until we see any class balance changes. I do look forward to it however, I would really love to see some new paragon classes for each current and new class, I'd especially like to see the clerics healing paragon path!
Also I would really like if they could sort all the tooltips out in the game a great many are just flat out wrong, inaccurate and uninformative with the actual numbers. Hopefully when they do release the new classes and balance changes (I believe they will come at the same time) they will be a great many patch notes with lots of fixes and changes.
Would prefer if they would release what they have ready (Including having QA done) in all honesty however rather than holding on to it all to launch in one big patch to make it look more impressive.
You fail to realize the difference between 100% and 50%. Oh and yeah, DC/CW/TR all need to be adjusted, thx for pointing that out further.
Given the TR's special case, there are multiple future nerfs needed. The TR's hp is too high, in fact it is as high as tank's hp which can not be healthy for the class balance. The next thing is the survivability. The TR can take too much damage before going down. It is basically a tank with dps.
If you also fail to see that this combined is indeed overpowered, i am sorry for you.
Peace.
So.... you want GF a class that has more than double the defense of a TR to have the same burst damage as TR? I thought you were arguing for balance? I'm guessing you're a GF and did not build your character properly because a lot of people cries about GF being able to do too much damage.
TR cannot take damage at all when fighting against any class that is in the same tiered gears and weapons. You are probably fighting TRs that have much better gears than you. I suggest you actually play the class. I honestly think that you will benefit a lot if you make a TR and play one. I started as GWF and I was crying about TR as well, but then I played one and realized it's exactly the same as my GWF. I own people when I have really good gears and get owned when I have really bad gears compared to my level. That is true for every class.
Too bad this is completely irrelevant now thanks to the hacks.
The cats man... the cats... and the rank 7 enchants... and the weapon enhancements... so much of it floating around... the people who exploited to get those **** things are near invincible.
Cleric: remove righteousness and address insane aggro they generate.
GF and GWF: Buff, GF needs more punishing marks that actually means something if mobs try to ignore him, also take a page outta 4E D&D and make all fighter attacks apply marks, and find something more interesting to do with their Tab skill. Also a significant increase in the guard meter, or removal of the guard meter altogether and let it be infinite. Make monsters/players flank or get behind him, or watch for openings.
GWF - Remodel after the 4E Slayer or the Rageblood Barbarian and dedicate this class as a full fledged 2 handed weapon striker, with striker mechanics and role. I am not sure what else can be done, since the real complaint with this class is that is feels like it doesn't know what role it is trying to fill, and therefore doesn't fill a role better than some other class.
WHAT MUST BE DONE! Make the fighters more desirable.
WHAT MUST NOT BE DONE! Make the other classes less desirable instead.
FIX WHAT ISN'T WORKING, NOT BREAK EVERYTHING EQUALLY! BUFF! DO NOT NERF!
Thank you.
I agree with all of this. Though I dont think Gaurdian Fighters should be able to block infinitely. But I agree with all of this.
I rather see buffs and not nerfs. I dont think any classes really need nerfs.
In PVP I've seen incredibly strong GWF that rush at you with insane speed and hit you down in 3 hits, regardless of how many times you try to blink or roll away. But most of em seem to be miss-skilled or missing sthg that makes the others so strong. So as always you gotta be careful with Buffs and Nerfs, because that can easily create sthg OP out of something strong. And I've seen GF winning the game by just guarding a point and living 4 times longer then others.
In PVE the same. GF with still some blue lvl 30 items getting 8k power or some GWF outdamaging rogues. Guess if you focus on one attribute that stacks extremely well with your feats or enchants etc. you can do alot better.
In PVP I've seen incredibly strong GWF that rush at you with insane speed and hit you down in 3 hits, regardless of how many times you try to blink or roll away. But most of em seem to be miss-skilled or missing sthg that makes the others so strong. So as always you gotta be careful with Buffs and Nerfs, because that can easily create sthg OP out of something strong. And I've seen GF winning the game by just guarding a point and living 4 times longer then others.
In PVE the same. GF with still some blue lvl 30 items getting 8k power or some GWF outdamaging rogues. Guess if you focus on one attribute that stacks extremely well with your feats or enchants etc. you can do alot better.
It's about time this has been at least addressed. Maybe we won't have a 3 class game anymore. Clerics hopefully will no longer have the power to screw entire groups because they're non-replaceable, or even better rogues and wizards won't think they're actually good at the game for playing op classes.
Anyone care to discuss.
True. if i got killed by Rogue and Wizards just like thts fine but if i got killed by same class as me i say WoW i will add him/her and ask something
True. if i got killed by Rogue and Wizards just like thts fine but if i got killed by same class as me i say WoW i will add him/her and ask something
Exactly! same like if i killed someone by my Rogue feels like i didnt accomplish anything. On my GWF if i killed someone Yeah Boy!! 'WHOS YOUR DADDY NOW'? It means gwf is for folks have skill to play.
Wonder if real balance will come up and how all those kids who playing CWs right now goin to QQ on forum(and all those threads with titles *OH LOOK HOW I OWN THEM ALL AS CW* will replace with *CWs DEAD IM LeAVING*)l. Most funny thing that they think they r awesome skilled players and even trying to show off in chat after match against 3-4cw usually u can see in zone chat something like "pfff it was easy u guys too weak". Only sad fact that in future i supose there will be another ranged class with real dmg and maybe even more CC lol (i wont be surprised as we can see CW most oped ranged dmg which suposed to be CCing class). So all those kids will just reroll to rangers and it will never end unless devs will wake up and understand that class and build means somekind of directionality not ***ing range/nuke/CC/invul/teleport in 1 character.
I truly hope the nerf hammer comes down with all the force you whining twink rogue PvP jackasses brought down on GWF and Cleric.
Think 50% universal nerf of all damage + Heavy dungeon Aggro + hard nerf to survivability.
I think if anything needs to change it's balancing the CC in PvP. When a class has no CC breaker and nothing external breaks it, then something is out of whack. Should Rogue and CW have the ability to shut people down for a short time? Sure but no diminishing returns or pretty much no way to do anything other than die as a Cleric means makes PvP a little souless (sub 60 anyway).
I've taken out countless CW's / rogues by playing in their blindspots/weaknesses.
What makes or breaks pvp is actually not a single class or set of skills, but the ability for people to work effectively in a team.(theres no "i" you may notice)
I have lost to a team of GF's before, because they all worked well together.
Most teams in pvp just 5uck because they dont use their strenghts in a smart way.
If a rogue is wailing on a wizard CC, if a wizard is CCing a rogue then you counter it with you cant catch me or by stunning them.
GF's ability to block just about anything is infuriating to a rogue, it slows them right down in an effective group a CW capitilizes on the rogues focusing of the GF, the same can be said for a wizard.
A GWF has huge AOE attacks, wait till theres a group of enemies and if a CW do that one where you jump up that is very effective to avoid CC
lol, I hope they nerf the **** out of rogues so then all the rogues can quit, then everyone will cry about CW, then they nerf CW then all the CW quits, then you all cry about Clerics, then they nerf the **** out of clerics, then they all quit, then you all cry about GF, then they nerf the **** out of GF, then all the GF quits, then all you have left are GWFs and you cry about each other, and they nerf you too, then you all quit.
Comments
Dear god that is some rough ideas...
I mean how is blocking an attack going to fix GF. I mean if we cannot get the MOBs attention to even try to hit us this does nothing. Not to mention you need to think of block as dodge. No GF will hold block to generate threat. Block breaks very quickly in boss fights and is an emergancy act.
I do agree marks being on a fix timer is a start. I also think that you need to remember that GF have 3 trees and currently only 1 functions. Conq. The other 2 are just bad.
In a game were DPS is king... there needs to be a very valid reason to use Tactics or Protection. If there is no plan on fixing this just remove the other 2 trees. Because all this does is make new players rage and for the few that stick with it... they are force to respec.
You do know that GF mark targets 1 at a time. So if you pull 5 mobs you have to mark them one at a time. Yes we have to abilities that mark mobs AOE. However the range on both of these abilities is very small. Actually the same size as the cleric blue circle.
This poses a huge problem in most T2 boss fights were adds are everywhere. The clerics is running around like a chicken with their head cut off being chased by every MOB that spawns. Unless these mobs are in the GF range we cannot do <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> to help. Not to mention Marking generates very little threat. We have to actually hit the MOBs, chasing the Cleric. Well we cannot hit and run. Yes another problem... we do not have a ranged attack... another problem. Even if we do get our threat generation abilities off it only lasts for about 3 seconds... then we are back were we started waiting for another ~8 sec while we generate no threat.
GF have a lot of issues...
Did i mention we have about 1/2 dozen completely broken skills/feats. More than that actually I am being very conservative.
"Everybody who outplays me or doesn't roll my class is a no-skill scrub!"
I just want you to see how stupid you sound. But then again, given your posting history, it's hardly surprising.
OP for president.
This made me smile
Elocin - Renegade Drow - 39 Devoted Cleric of Selune - Mindflayer
Looking for some Dust of Forum Troll Disappearance ? Sprinkle this on any troll to phase shift them out of your plane of existence.
Cleric: remove righteousness and address insane aggro they generate.
GF and GWF: Buff, GF needs more punishing marks that actually means something if mobs try to ignore him, also take a page outta 4E D&D and make all fighter attacks apply marks, and find something more interesting to do with their Tab skill. Also a significant increase in the guard meter, or removal of the guard meter altogether and let it be infinite. Make monsters/players flank or get behind him, or watch for openings.
GWF - Remodel after the 4E Slayer or the Rageblood Barbarian and dedicate this class as a full fledged 2 handed weapon striker, with striker mechanics and role. I am not sure what else can be done, since the real complaint with this class is that is feels like it doesn't know what role it is trying to fill, and therefore doesn't fill a role better than some other class.
WHAT MUST BE DONE! Make the fighters more desirable.
WHAT MUST NOT BE DONE! Make the other classes less desirable instead.
FIX WHAT ISN'T WORKING, NOT BREAK EVERYTHING EQUALLY! BUFF! DO NOT NERF!
Thank you.
agreed with cleric agro how it is thats the most <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> passive to have (heals are 1/2 as effective on self if you didnt know). that or hey they could actually fix agro.
Not an either or! Fix aggro and remove righteousness. Both are absurd.
Clerics should totally not be able to heal themselves and have to burn a billion more pots than their party mates...said no sane healer design in an MMO ever!
Cooldown = entire instance
Effect = reduce self heal to 50% and transfer 75% threat to GF/GWF (cannot use on CW/TR for obviues grief reasons)
as a side effect heal on self would be 100% durring solo questing and if u dont cast this on somebody, wich would be okay i think?
I would rename this to "Righteous gaurdian" ore something funky, and it could pop up as a request to the person it is cast upon
"player [nickname] has requested u be his gaurdian for this instance accept y/n?"
that way it would promote teamplay in public dungeons, and would give a sense of honor to the tank and a synergy between tank/healer
Suddenly tanks become desireble in t2 dungeons so a cleric can focus on keeping everybody allive instead of running around like a chicken.
Also fix throwing mobs of cliffs, its to **** easy and makes boss fights rediculues....
What about the CW daily? The GWF daily? The GF daily? The Cleric daily? CW has a daily that can do just as much damage as the TR daily to an opponent with full health. The GWF daily can do just as much damage as the TR daily if built properly. The GF daily can take any class's health from full to 50%. The cleric daily stacked with astral shield makes them invincible for 15 seconds. Why don't you play a TR at level 60 and find out for yourself that you can be killed just as easily by any other classes? Why don't you find out for yourself that TR has the slowest AP build up for their dailies compared to all other classes?
Also I would really like if they could sort all the tooltips out in the game a great many are just flat out wrong, inaccurate and uninformative with the actual numbers. Hopefully when they do release the new classes and balance changes (I believe they will come at the same time) they will be a great many patch notes with lots of fixes and changes.
Would prefer if they would release what they have ready (Including having QA done) in all honesty however rather than holding on to it all to launch in one big patch to make it look more impressive.
So.... you want GF a class that has more than double the defense of a TR to have the same burst damage as TR? I thought you were arguing for balance? I'm guessing you're a GF and did not build your character properly because a lot of people cries about GF being able to do too much damage.
TR cannot take damage at all when fighting against any class that is in the same tiered gears and weapons. You are probably fighting TRs that have much better gears than you. I suggest you actually play the class. I honestly think that you will benefit a lot if you make a TR and play one. I started as GWF and I was crying about TR as well, but then I played one and realized it's exactly the same as my GWF. I own people when I have really good gears and get owned when I have really bad gears compared to my level. That is true for every class.
Like driving a Ferrari...
EDIT - Horse manure on AS + HG = invincible for 15 secs. Play a cleric sometime and find out for yourself....
The cats man... the cats... and the rank 7 enchants... and the weapon enhancements... so much of it floating around... the people who exploited to get those **** things are near invincible.
I agree with all of this. Though I dont think Gaurdian Fighters should be able to block infinitely. But I agree with all of this.
I rather see buffs and not nerfs. I dont think any classes really need nerfs.
In PVE the same. GF with still some blue lvl 30 items getting 8k power or some GWF outdamaging rogues. Guess if you focus on one attribute that stacks extremely well with your feats or enchants etc. you can do alot better.
Guess wht you Rogue? so nothing to say anymore!!!
True. if i got killed by Rogue and Wizards just like thts fine but if i got killed by same class as me i say WoW i will add him/her and ask something
Exactly! same like if i killed someone by my Rogue feels like i didnt accomplish anything. On my GWF if i killed someone Yeah Boy!! 'WHOS YOUR DADDY NOW'? It means gwf is for folks have skill to play.
Anyone arguing that is either incredibly stupid or a damnable liar.
EDIT - much harser words are in order, but not allowed by forum rules.
Think 50% universal nerf of all damage + Heavy dungeon Aggro + hard nerf to survivability.
I've taken out countless CW's / rogues by playing in their blindspots/weaknesses.
What makes or breaks pvp is actually not a single class or set of skills, but the ability for people to work effectively in a team.(theres no "i" you may notice)
I have lost to a team of GF's before, because they all worked well together.
Most teams in pvp just 5uck because they dont use their strenghts in a smart way.
If a rogue is wailing on a wizard CC, if a wizard is CCing a rogue then you counter it with you cant catch me or by stunning them.
GF's ability to block just about anything is infuriating to a rogue, it slows them right down in an effective group a CW capitilizes on the rogues focusing of the GF, the same can be said for a wizard.
A GWF has huge AOE attacks, wait till theres a group of enemies and if a CW do that one where you jump up that is very effective to avoid CC