What do you mean? Like....PVP because it's fun? Blasphemy! Who would ever do that?
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pahnyeMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
I am not blaming the people who play and win for having a stronger or more capable team. I AM blaming the twerps who have the nerve to join a game match only to sit in the safe zone and suck up glory. Should be something we can do about them.
I am not blaming the people who play and win for having a stronger or more capable team. I AM blaming the twerps who have the nerve to join a game match only to sit in the safe zone and suck up glory. Should be something we can do about them.
See that is where I think you are wrong. I believe the root of the problem is the PVE'er who hates PVP has quickly discovered this is one of that fastest ways to level in PVE.
I leveled faster PVP'n that I did Questing (I have been told that is because I am a Cleric and they quest slow).
Just for the record - I do participate in the match even though I don't like PVP. Only because I wear a Guild Tag and do not want to tarnish the name of said Guild.
I would suggest everyone take it upon themselves to kick AFKers from PvP matches. Unless the AFKer is the party leader, then someone in your group has the power to rob them of their ability to AFK farm.
Every single time I am party leader in PvP, I take note of who does not move at the start of the match. I message anyone I see not moving in the spawn. If they fail to respond to me in a reasonable amount of time (usually by my next death) I kick them. Maybe they were AFK farming, maybe they were legitimately AFK for an understandable reason (doorbell, phone call, etc.) It doesn't much matter to me. If you hit "accept", then you weren't AFK 10 seconds ago. If you are AFK now, without leaving a quick "brb" in chat, then I'll assume you have no plans to return to the match.
I also put the people I know are AFK glory/AD farming on ignore. I want to have their names on my ignore list, so I can refuse to group with them in any other form of content.
-Travail.
Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.
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pahnyeMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
I, for one, would play PvP just because it is a whole lot of fun! I have been playing D&D since the 70's in one form or another, and it has always been my credo that if you are not having fun the game isn't really worth playing. That being said tho, there should be rewards and those who refuse to participate should not be getting them.
The fix should be easy.. they should just give reward based on their contributions ( Points that they earned )
example would be if you have 1000 points you will get 100 glory and 3000 points 300 glory
and exp rewards count by percent.
3000 points or above = 10 % exp
2000 - 3000 = 6 - 7 % exp
2000 below = 3 - 5 % exp
the amount of exp and glory you get from pvp is too big and need to be tone down.
another thing would be a vote kick system..leaders can't just kick anyone so a vote kick based on 3/5 votes is needed.
Right? The ONLY reason I'm even IN an arena is because I'm going to get AD from my daily. That's it. Could care less about PvP otherwise. Take away my AD, and I'll never set foot in an arena again. Promise. Because I suck at PvP. Really. Don't like having to do it if I want more AD, either.
I personally witnessed this AFK in pvp. The gate goes down and I leave to cap an objective. I end up the only one there and after killing 1 guy get bashed by 3 at once. and respawn only to see the other 4 players on my team standing there. So the other team finally gets to our spawn and starts kicking the HAMSTER out of them. I try to at least get away but not with the other teams 5 players there so it turned into wait the time out and move on.
They need to make a timer that if you don't leave the spawn you get kicked so at least they have to move out of it into the arena area and can get killed plus they can't leave their computers or if they die they will be kicked if in the spawn too long again.
I don't play much pvp and have always been a pve person but this pissed me off and I don't really play it much.
Maybe this was already suggested, but I'm going to drop this here anyway. It's not a perfect fix.
Set a base amount of glory or exp to equal x.
gain x glory for capturing a crystal.
lose (x - 1/2x) glory for losing it.
gain 2x glory for a player kill
lose 2x -x glory for a personal death.
gain 3x glory for a team win.
It's not perfect, and it might be the weaker of the set of suggestions in this thread so far but the only legit solution IMO is to take the reward away from the afk players without too much penalty to those who want to play. If they do nothing, well they get nothing. If they take one base, well that's all the glory they're going to get.
People are inherently cutthroat if they feel they can get away with it. If the risk outweighs the reward, the behavior stops. You have to nip the reward in the bud to end the farming, but not nip it to the point where a bad pvper (like myself) winds up getting no reward...
Although it might be incentive to improve, after all.
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rapticorMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,078Arc User
Why not make timer in PvP if u dont move more than 1 min auto kick !!!
Because not moving is very easy to get around. Stick something heavy on their T key and now they're moving the whole match. It needs to be some sort of mix between moving/dropping from spawn point and participating.
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grayvenrayneMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 19Arc User
What does winning have to do with anything? My suggestion only asks that they be an active participant and hitting their opponents or healing their teammates. They don't need to be on the winning team as long as they are playing, I'm only a casual PVPer, usually only for the dailies but I still participate, usually much to the chagrin of my teamates.
Those that thought this was a bad idea... must be AFKers
I've leveled my characters almost completely through PvP and never been AFK in there. It is quite common for me to have 0 kills and still have highest score in game, and won the match. Fighting is not needed to win games in current Domination gamemode. Running is much more important.
Oh how I'd like to throw daggers at guardians and run away for a minute. Then laugh when they get autokicked. How cool was that? Your suggestion shows that you really do not play much PvP.
And inactivity autokick is a bad solution anyway, it is easy to make macros to move around enough. Simply removing any benefits if you do not play well enough would fix everything. Bad players learn, afkers and botters don't.
I think the largest contributor to AFK issues however is that there is incentive for non-pvpers and loot drops that people want to do it. To me beyond kicking players you need to put controls on the incentive behind the behavior. Frankly the daily pvp AD should be earned so that you will only get the daily at a certain value for playing pvp consistently (PVP level or number of matches for example). This means non-pvpers who just hate to lose and cant take a challenge won't feel it is worth queuing at all even once for the daily AD run.
You can also provide PVP tiers so that the real PVP players only queue with other good PVP players not all the daily grinders who are just in the match for the AD.
Loot is also simple as others have said here, your reward is based on your participation. But to me it is also you have to have contributed to win past a threshold of points to get any drops.
AFK also needs a stronger punishment then just being kicked from a game. The are AFKing because there is 0 disincentive to not do it. And the disincentive cannot just be queue time delay or being kicked from a single match. Think all stores and transactions for selling items increased by a percentage per offense on the whole account. Also a debuff on loot drops for a period of time for all content. Or how about no loot drops at all over a given period of time. How about all loot in a certain period gained is bound to character so 100% no farming. There are a bunch of created ways to basically tell the farmers that their behavior is hurting the game community and we are going to shun you and prevent you from doing this. That means taking away the incentive to do it.
ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
edited May 2013
The change made was by no means the final solution. That change should help stop some of the most basic form of AFK PvP farming...
But more solutions are being created. The current change was simply a fix put into place for an immediate improvement while additional solutions are being pursued.
1. Have a Vote system that means people can vote to kick others regardless of whos leader. Probably the most sensible.
2. Put a report function that if someone gets more then 10 in a day - you can investigate them.
3. Make an official warning - warning players that if they AFK they will be punished. I have yet to see any form of threat or warning.
4. Make it so anyone standing in the safe zone takes damage after 1 minute. which eventually will kill and Severely injure the player.
5. Make is so whoever is in the safezone Takes damage on behalf of their own team. (meaning afkers actually help without them knowing) Bit of a stupid idea but I dunno could be a thought.
6. Most players think its ok to AFK you need to make it crystal clear to them. I had some reject saying " stfu **** it's normal to afk, everyone else does it and no-one gets banned. Its just part of the game"
To be honest I personally don't care that much anymore as AFkers usually mean free points. But at the same time it's crappy for those that are on the AFKers team. I feel sorry for those that go in and try to pvp then it gets ruined because one guy cba to play. Not to mention it gets boring and it ain't right to be getting all these free points.
The Best PVP Guild on Dragon/Neverwinter: YoloOldSkoolSwagLoveNeverGingersLuvDupStep even if it's just one of us, you might as well just afk.
1. Have a Vote system that means people can vote to kick others regardless of whos leader. Probably the most sensible.
2. Put a report function that if someone gets more then 10 in a day - you can investigate them.
3. Make an official warning - warning players that if they AFK they will be punished. I have yet to see any form of threat or warning.
4. Make it so anyone standing in the safe zone takes damage after 1 minute. which eventually will kill and Severely injure the player.
5. Make is so whoever is in the safezone Takes damage on behalf of their own team. (meaning afkers actually help without them knowing) Bit of a stupid idea but I dunno could be a thought.
6. Most players think its ok to AFK you need to make it crystal clear to them. I had some reject saying " stfu **** it's normal to afk, everyone else does it and no-one gets banned. Its just part of the game"
To be honest I personally don't care that much anymore as AFkers usually mean free points. But at the same time it's crappy for those that are on the AFKers team. I feel sorry for those that go in and try to pvp then it gets ruined because one guy cba to play. Not to mention it gets boring and it ain't right to be getting all these free points.
Actually I'd suggest completely removing the option to kick. Any capability to kick creates an avenue for abuse, and kicking wouldn't really much benefit the team anyway.
Actually I'd suggest completely removing the option to kick. Any capability to kick creates an avenue for abuse, and kicking wouldn't really much benefit the team anyway.
I think the largest contributor to AFK issues however is that there is incentive for non-pvpers and loot drops that people want to do it. To me beyond kicking players you need to put controls on the incentive behind the behavior. Frankly the daily pvp AD should be earned so that you will only get the daily at a certain value for playing pvp consistently (PVP level or number of matches for example). This means non-pvpers who just hate to lose and cant take a challenge won't feel it is worth queuing at all even once for the daily AD run.
You can also provide PVP tiers so that the real PVP players only queue with other good PVP players not all the daily grinders who are just in the match for the AD.
Loot is also simple as others have said here, your reward is based on your participation. But to me it is also you have to have contributed to win past a threshold of points to get any drops.
AFK also needs a stronger punishment then just being kicked from a game. The are AFKing because there is 0 disincentive to not do it. And the disincentive cannot just be queue time delay or being kicked from a single match. Think all stores and transactions for selling items increased by a percentage per offense on the whole account. Also a debuff on loot drops for a period of time for all content. Or how about no loot drops at all over a given period of time. How about all loot in a certain period gained is bound to character so 100% no farming. There are a bunch of created ways to basically tell the farmers that their behavior is hurting the game community and we are going to shun you and prevent you from doing this. That means taking away the incentive to do it.
It shouldn't be necessary to have to register a kill, just damage against an opposing player or a heal on your own teammates for clerics. I know how hard it is to get a kill especially with a GWF. everything else is just too **** fast for you to do any real damage to. But doing a little damage is still showing you're trying.
to be honest i am still seeing it and im becoming sick of it.. pwe/cryptic really need to sort something out i know they have had bigger issues of late but once ah is sorted and things are at least semi stable they should look at pvp simple solutions range from:
1. Vote to kick option
2. Glory/XP based off performance ie.(healing done, damage done, kills. assists. capping, neutralizing, and ressing ppl)
3. Have an auto kick if someone is afk within spawn zone for more then 1 min
4. Give greater incentives for winning teams ie.( Increased glory buff for next match?)
5. This is arguable... Making gear BoE yes some would say thats HAMSTER because you will get ur *** handed to u till you have a set and they may lose interest all together.
Other then that i think these are pretty simple implementations and i think something does need to be done before you lose a lot of your pvp community there is talk of quite a few players jumping ship even after saying this game is one of the best that has come out recently.
ps and for god sake pls fix the pvp bug where you dont get ported in wow its annoying
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jakula1Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
The AFK players only have to hit space every now and then (well their bot). It's pretty disheartening, however easily fixed.
There should in all groups be a group kick function, we should also be able to refill groups when a group member disconnects or is voted out due to being afk.
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kimonagiMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
The chance made was by no means the final solution. That chance should help stop some of the most basic form of AFK PvP farming...
But more solutions are being created. The current change was simply a fix put into place for an immediate improvement while additional solutions are being pursued.
Thanks, good to know.
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biarMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Comments
What do you mean? Like....PVP because it's fun? Blasphemy! Who would ever do that?
See that is where I think you are wrong. I believe the root of the problem is the PVE'er who hates PVP has quickly discovered this is one of that fastest ways to level in PVE.
I leveled faster PVP'n that I did Questing (I have been told that is because I am a Cleric and they quest slow).
Just for the record - I do participate in the match even though I don't like PVP. Only because I wear a Guild Tag and do not want to tarnish the name of said Guild.
Every single time I am party leader in PvP, I take note of who does not move at the start of the match. I message anyone I see not moving in the spawn. If they fail to respond to me in a reasonable amount of time (usually by my next death) I kick them. Maybe they were AFK farming, maybe they were legitimately AFK for an understandable reason (doorbell, phone call, etc.) It doesn't much matter to me. If you hit "accept", then you weren't AFK 10 seconds ago. If you are AFK now, without leaving a quick "brb" in chat, then I'll assume you have no plans to return to the match.
I also put the people I know are AFK glory/AD farming on ignore. I want to have their names on my ignore list, so I can refuse to group with them in any other form of content.
-Travail.
example would be if you have 1000 points you will get 100 glory and 3000 points 300 glory
and exp rewards count by percent.
3000 points or above = 10 % exp
2000 - 3000 = 6 - 7 % exp
2000 below = 3 - 5 % exp
the amount of exp and glory you get from pvp is too big and need to be tone down.
another thing would be a vote kick system..leaders can't just kick anyone so a vote kick based on 3/5 votes is needed.
if you remove rewards from pvp..not many people will try to do pvp and eventually you will have a hard time to get a queue
\o/
Drakeos Shadowbow - 60 Combat Pathfinder Hunter Ranger (Alt/retired)
Falados - Drow (Mez) Level 60 Trickster Rogue - Offically retired
Drakeos - Drow (Mez) Scourge Warlock/Druid (retired)
Right? The ONLY reason I'm even IN an arena is because I'm going to get AD from my daily. That's it. Could care less about PvP otherwise. Take away my AD, and I'll never set foot in an arena again. Promise. Because I suck at PvP. Really. Don't like having to do it if I want more AD, either.
Occam's Razor makes the cutting clean.
They need to make a timer that if you don't leave the spawn you get kicked so at least they have to move out of it into the arena area and can get killed plus they can't leave their computers or if they die they will be kicked if in the spawn too long again.
I don't play much pvp and have always been a pve person but this pissed me off and I don't really play it much.
Set a base amount of glory or exp to equal x.
gain x glory for capturing a crystal.
lose (x - 1/2x) glory for losing it.
gain 2x glory for a player kill
lose 2x -x glory for a personal death.
gain 3x glory for a team win.
It's not perfect, and it might be the weaker of the set of suggestions in this thread so far but the only legit solution IMO is to take the reward away from the afk players without too much penalty to those who want to play. If they do nothing, well they get nothing. If they take one base, well that's all the glory they're going to get.
People are inherently cutthroat if they feel they can get away with it. If the risk outweighs the reward, the behavior stops. You have to nip the reward in the bud to end the farming, but not nip it to the point where a bad pvper (like myself) winds up getting no reward...
Although it might be incentive to improve, after all.
Because not moving is very easy to get around. Stick something heavy on their T key and now they're moving the whole match. It needs to be some sort of mix between moving/dropping from spawn point and participating.
Make the rewards only provide a benefit in PvP combat, and set up a separate constant gear tab for PvP gear.
I've leveled my characters almost completely through PvP and never been AFK in there. It is quite common for me to have 0 kills and still have highest score in game, and won the match. Fighting is not needed to win games in current Domination gamemode. Running is much more important.
Oh how I'd like to throw daggers at guardians and run away for a minute. Then laugh when they get autokicked. How cool was that? Your suggestion shows that you really do not play much PvP.
And inactivity autokick is a bad solution anyway, it is easy to make macros to move around enough. Simply removing any benefits if you do not play well enough would fix everything. Bad players learn, afkers and botters don't.
You can also provide PVP tiers so that the real PVP players only queue with other good PVP players not all the daily grinders who are just in the match for the AD.
Loot is also simple as others have said here, your reward is based on your participation. But to me it is also you have to have contributed to win past a threshold of points to get any drops.
AFK also needs a stronger punishment then just being kicked from a game. The are AFKing because there is 0 disincentive to not do it. And the disincentive cannot just be queue time delay or being kicked from a single match. Think all stores and transactions for selling items increased by a percentage per offense on the whole account. Also a debuff on loot drops for a period of time for all content. Or how about no loot drops at all over a given period of time. How about all loot in a certain period gained is bound to character so 100% no farming. There are a bunch of created ways to basically tell the farmers that their behavior is hurting the game community and we are going to shun you and prevent you from doing this. That means taking away the incentive to do it.
Not like many people are trying to do actual pvp at the moment, so nothing is lost.
This is an open beta. Start treating it like one.
It takes 10 minutes to get an AFK Warning
It takes 15 minutes to get AFK kicked
It takes less than 10 minutes to complete a PVP match with AFKers..
Let the nubs frolick I say
But more solutions are being created. The current change was simply a fix put into place for an immediate improvement while additional solutions are being pursued.
1. Have a Vote system that means people can vote to kick others regardless of whos leader. Probably the most sensible.
2. Put a report function that if someone gets more then 10 in a day - you can investigate them.
3. Make an official warning - warning players that if they AFK they will be punished. I have yet to see any form of threat or warning.
4. Make it so anyone standing in the safe zone takes damage after 1 minute. which eventually will kill and Severely injure the player.
5. Make is so whoever is in the safezone Takes damage on behalf of their own team. (meaning afkers actually help without them knowing) Bit of a stupid idea but I dunno could be a thought.
6. Most players think its ok to AFK you need to make it crystal clear to them. I had some reject saying " stfu **** it's normal to afk, everyone else does it and no-one gets banned. Its just part of the game"
To be honest I personally don't care that much anymore as AFkers usually mean free points. But at the same time it's crappy for those that are on the AFKers team. I feel sorry for those that go in and try to pvp then it gets ruined because one guy cba to play. Not to mention it gets boring and it ain't right to be getting all these free points.
This is an open beta. Start treating it like one.
Agreed. There should be no Kick option in PvP.
It shouldn't be necessary to have to register a kill, just damage against an opposing player or a heal on your own teammates for clerics. I know how hard it is to get a kill especially with a GWF. everything else is just too **** fast for you to do any real damage to. But doing a little damage is still showing you're trying.
1. Vote to kick option
2. Glory/XP based off performance ie.(healing done, damage done, kills. assists. capping, neutralizing, and ressing ppl)
3. Have an auto kick if someone is afk within spawn zone for more then 1 min
4. Give greater incentives for winning teams ie.( Increased glory buff for next match?)
5. This is arguable... Making gear BoE yes some would say thats HAMSTER because you will get ur *** handed to u till you have a set and they may lose interest all together.
Other then that i think these are pretty simple implementations and i think something does need to be done before you lose a lot of your pvp community there is talk of quite a few players jumping ship even after saying this game is one of the best that has come out recently.
ps and for god sake pls fix the pvp bug where you dont get ported in wow its annoying
There should in all groups be a group kick function, we should also be able to refill groups when a group member disconnects or is voted out due to being afk.
Thanks, good to know.
AFK --> No move ---> No points ---> Half reward
solution:
AFK --> No move --> No points --> No reward