GWF simply needs to lower the learning curve. Give the class Punishing Charge and Indomitable Battle Strike, two core powers in his build, in much lower levels.
Punishing Charge should be available very early since it's the class's mobility tool.
Probably there should be a slight twink in the At-Will damage, again to make low levels less painful.
In the endgame the class is fine and scales very well with gear.
I personally think Sure Strike needs a straight up dmg boost.
For a single target only attack it's dmg is pathetic. I out dmg it spamming reaping strikes. Do about ~400 in a full sure strike combo, do about 440 in a fully charged reaping strike.
Also the way Unstoppable works is annoying IMO, only working when hit, and the other options to gain them are pretty weak. On paper it sounds like it would work, more dmg taken the stronger you'll get somewhat. But you need to be healed a lot to actually take all the abuse to even get it in the first place.
I don't really understand why this class doesn't have any other lifesteal/heals outside of Restoring Strike. It feels like it should have plenty of them, but for some reason the Guardian gets the massive lifesteal daily AND an At Will that heals, doesn't make sense to me. GWF should have a passive for lifestealing, and an aoe attack for lifestealing since he's meant to be "tanking" the crowds of mobs, and only gains unstoppable when damaged. And unstoppable should also be prolonged when hit to actually punish people for attacking him.
TBH I don't dodge attacks so I can GAIN unstoppable, but I dodge attacks when I have unstoppable because that dmg taken isn't giving me more unstoppable, it's kind of backwards.
Also, GWF had higher DPS than the rogue in the beta, it was nerfed. I am sure balance changes will come again soon.
Also, for the guy who says tanking is not needed...I love my guardian who sits on the cleric and keeps her alive. This is the best plan. You dont 'tank' in the traditional sense of it (stand still, spam taunts, take all the damage) you are supposed to be mobile and defend, all attacks can be interrupted by your shield so..you know..STAND IN FRONT OF THE CLERIC AND HOLD UP THE SHIELD.
Please. :P
Ahahah so you'll run around with the cleric in a T2 dungeon waiting for your taunt to cool down so you can taunt the 20+ mobs chasing him so he can live for a few extra seconds? Get a clue of end game before you say something HAMSTER cause you're doing it wrong if that's your "best plan". Just give GF more dmg and that's all I care.
0
steppenkatMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I personally think Sure Strike needs a straight up dmg boost.
For a single target only attack it's dmg is pathetic. I out dmg it spamming reaping strikes. Do about ~400 in a full sure strike combo, do about 440 in a fully charged reaping strike.
Also the way Unstoppable works is annoying IMO, only working when hit, and the other options to gain them are pretty weak. On paper it sounds like it would work, more dmg taken the stronger you'll get somewhat. But you need to be healed a lot to actually take all the abuse to even get it in the first place.
I don't really understand why this class doesn't have any other lifesteal/heals outside of Restoring Strike. It feels like it should have plenty of them, but for some reason the Guardian gets the massive lifesteal daily AND an At Will that heals, doesn't make sense to me. GWF should have a passive for lifestealing, and an aoe attack for lifestealing since he's meant to be "tanking" the crowds of mobs, and only gains unstoppable when damaged. And unstoppable should also be prolonged when hit to actually punish people for attacking him.
TBH I don't dodge attacks so I can GAIN unstoppable, but I dodge attacks when I have unstoppable because that dmg taken isn't giving me more unstoppable, it's kind of backwards.
If you go Destroyer you'll gain Unstoppable by dealing damage.
You need to dodge the AoEs later in the game, trying to tank all the damage and potion chugging is not a viable option, even if it stacks Unstoppable quicker.
Characters: - Titania Silverblade, the Iron Rose of Myth Drannor (Lvl 60 GWF, Destroyer) - Gwyneth, the Cowardly Cat Burglar Drowling (Lvl 60 TR, Saboteur) - Lady Rowanne Firehair, Heartwarder of Sune (Lvl 33 DC) - Satella, Sensate (LvL 44 CW, Renegade, Non-Active)
We plan to look into class balance feedback in more detail in the near future. I do apologize that we have been receiving wonderful feedback from you guys, but have not been able to address it as quickly as we would have liked. As we move forward with the fixes for the current items at hand, we do plan on giving balance feedback an in-depth review and communicate with our players on that progress. Thanks for your patience, support, and understanding!
we been waiting here so dont say just do it..
0
lanessar13Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, SilverstarsPosts: 8Arc User
We plan to look into class balance feedback in more detail in the near future. I do apologize that we have been receiving wonderful feedback from you guys, but have not been able to address it as quickly as we would have liked. As we move forward with the fixes for the current items at hand, we do plan on giving balance feedback an in-depth review and communicate with our players on that progress. Thanks for your patience, support, and understanding!
Before you "balance" any powers, how about just getting the existing abilities to work properly, including feats, etc.?
The classes might play very differently if you just made half of the abilities and feats work as they are intended.
Then you can start balancing, because that will make some classes VERY OP.
Ahahah so you'll run around with the cleric in a T2 dungeon waiting for your taunt to cool down so you can taunt the 20+ mobs chasing him so he can live for a few extra seconds? Get a clue of end game before you say something HAMSTER cause you're doing it wrong if that's your "best plan". Just give GF more dmg and that's all I care.
If you think that Encounter power is your best, much less only, taunt, then you're doing it wrong and need to roll a Rogue and let the adults handle the tanking.
Since close beta we been asking you to do something on Great Weapon Fighter and GF they are useless class its completely garbage!! Did you guys ever visit the the Barracks furom or you just ignoring us. People crying out there and there about to quit this game. We were always expecting every update but i think it will never come. We were getting tired of this just take our money and your welcome for that!!
Neverwinter is in beta testing with bugs, game imbalances, roll backs, etc to be expected. If you wished a polished product you should wait for Neverwinter to be officially released. If you do not want to beta test software, then why are you beta testing Neverwinter?
Beat three different GWFs in total dmg output in a dungeon by at least 2:1. And I did this as a GF(a class that sucks) in cheap pvp gear.
My experience with GWFs as a cleric today:
defeat a GWF 1v1 during a pvp match with full HP. I recently got 60 on my Cleric, had a GS as low as 7400.
GWFs are pathetic. It's such a ****ty class it makes me wanna throw up. I'm never going to run a dungeon with a GWF unless they get buffed up bigtime. I'd rather leave and find another group.
0
quorforgedMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
For those complaining that Neverwinter isn't D&D (especially the D&D before 4E "ruined" it), this is one way it is. Fighters sucking is classic D&D.
Of course, so is Rogues sucking.
But seriously, fighters being awesome in 4E is one reason among many why it's the best D&D. If ever there's a good reason for Neverwinter to be more like D&D, that's one right there.
Beat three different GWFs in total dmg output in a dungeon by at least 2:1. And I did this as a GF(a class that sucks) in cheap pvp gear.
My experience with GWFs as a cleric today:
defeat a GWF 1v1 during a pvp match with full HP. I recently got 60 on my Cleric, had a GS of 7400.
GWFs are pathetic. It's such a ****ty class it makes me wanna throw up. I promsied to ymself to never run a dungeon with a GWF. I'd rather leave and find another group.
My experience with rocks as a paper yesterday:
Beat three different rocks in total dmg output in a dungeon by at least 2:1. And I did this as a paper(a class that sucks) in cheap pvp gear.
My experience with rocks as a Spock today:
defeat a rock 1v1 during a pvp match with full HP. I recently got 60 on my Spock, had a GS of 7400.
rocks are pathetic. It's such a ****ty class it makes me wanna throw up. I promsied [sic] to ymself [sic] to never run a dungeon with a rock. I'd rather leave and find another group.
0
drakedge2Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
We plan to look into class balance feedback in more detail in the near future. I do apologize that we have been receiving wonderful feedback from you guys, but have not been able to address it as quickly as we would have liked. As we move forward with the fixes for the current items at hand, we do plan on giving balance feedback an in-depth review and communicate with our players on that progress. Thanks for your patience, support, and understanding!
Well, spiffy, but the longer you wait the further your fighter classes and only tank in the game continue to be left behind.
Since close beta we been asking you to do something on Great Weapon Fighter and GF they are useless class its completely garbage!! Did you guys ever visit the the Barracks furom or you just ignoring us. People crying out there and there about to quit this game. We were always expecting every update but i think it will never come. We were getting tired of this just take our money and your welcome for that!!
Actually they nerfed the GWF from the closed beta to here....s its not that they don't care....I just think they maybe they don't like us very much....
I have a level 60, well geared guardian fighter. My friend has a level 60, well geared great weapon fighter. Together, along with a cleric, rogue, and wizard, we are about to beat epic castle never (got the last boss dracolich to 24% yesterday and we plan on defeating him today). Our group, comprised of one of each class, has also never lost a pvp game at level 60. We are literally undefeated together... clocking in somewhere above 50 straight wins.
So, even though GFs and GWFs may not be as highly demanded as rogues or clerics or wizards, they are not garbage, and they are not useless. Learn to play your class well, and you might actually find that they can be quite powerful. If you feel that there are balancing issues, instead of posting a contemptuous rant, let the developers know exactly what you feel is wrong with the balance and they just might fix it sooner.
And you would be better with another TR or DC and not the GWF...just saying....and thats the problem
I'm okay with doing a bunch of AoE damage on my GWF and doing 'meh' for single target. That's just me, though. Some people want GRATUITOUS AMOUNTS OF DPS on every single one of their characters.
That said, the threat on GF's could use a little work. :P
The problem is though out AOE isn't even that great.....at higher levels even the trash gets hard and take a while to kill. Sure you can hit 5 at a time, but they all hit you back too.....
I do not know what the actual issue is. I have a TR I love to be in groups with a good GF they hold argo reasonable well letting me DPS full out. Yes when a Boss dungeon is over and the tables come up I might have done 3 times the damage but their job is not DPS. One has to remember though they can not dish out the dps the sure can take a hit. GWF are great at aoe and picking up all the adds they also can take a hit when compared to a TR or the caster classes. Thus they make good offtanks.
What is seems to me is that people want all the advantages a GF or GWF have plus none of the offsetting weaknesses. My TR could be a god if she had not only her DPS but a GF or GWF defenses
If you go Destroyer you'll gain Unstoppable by dealing damage.
Yeah at the end.....Too bad most people, will never make it that far because its such a grind to get there. GWF should gain determination from doing damage naturally not from a feat at level 60
You need to dodge the AoEs later in the game, trying to tank all the damage and potion chugging is not a viable option, even if it stacks Unstoppable quicker.
Too bad we only get one or two dodges if we are lucky because our stamina runs out so fast and thats if you do the wrong thing and stand still when fighting. There are so many big AOEs in the game that I literally run out of stamina getting out of them. Then guess what they drop another one and Im stuck.....
A GWF who knows what they are doing is a great asset for running dungeons.
Not really.
Unfortunately I out-DPS every GWF I've ever been in a group with my GF. I'm usually top with no TR or 2nd with TR in the dps charts.
PPL complaining about GF don't know how to build their character. HOWEVER: I do believe GWF needs some help. They are seriously lacking in everything. It's like they're the jack-of-all-trades but actually are the "suck-of-all-trades."
0
daradalMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
A GWF who knows what they are doing is a great asset for running dungeons.
Sure they are thats why they get kicked from high level dungeon runs right??
0
millertime197933Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 124Bounty Hunter
edited May 2013
GWF make great kiters. They have great survivability and have skills/feats that can make them run faster on foot. They also have sprint as their "dodge" skill. While that is not sexy or what most people would roll a GWF for, it is something to hang the hat on. I did epic cragmire crypts with just 2 GWF and a cleric. 2 members of our group disconnected but we decided to continue. Walked through everything. Last fight was tough and took a long time. But one GWF stayed on boss while I kited. Cleric died about halfway through. But I had a healthstone from the caturday package! Used 10 charges of it and we won. I have done that dungeon with my CW dozens of times, but the time with my GWF was the easiest...and longest.
Unfortunately the community always boots GWF and GF from their groups because they want the other classes, in particular a cleric. This might have something to do with how the que works also. I often sit in groups that when formed, have 2 TR and 2 CW, and then we wait for a cleric. The GF and GWF always fills the 5th spot, so they get booted for a cleric. It is hard to find a balance with these classes because players often make their judgements off PVP. Sometimes my CW owns, and sometimes I get owned. It just depends. I generally fear GWF most in PVP (I have a 10k GS CW), because they break CC and run fast. Once they get close i'm dead because I get stun locked and dps'd very quickly. On the other hand, sometimes I can tell the GWF has a much lower GS as my dps owns them quickly, and I'm able to survive if they get close.
Key thing is, GS does come into play and it is hard for players to make judgement on how a class performs unless you have played it yourself. Sure I feel like my dps is low when I play GWF< but that is because my first toon is a CW renegade build and that is the basis of my comparison. On the other hand, I have a much harder time surviving on boss fights with my CW because I am often agroing the adds on boss fights trying to control them, and then I can't get away or use heal pots fast enough. With my GWF, I can sprint away from bad guys far enough to refresh any healing timer...and my basic survivability is much higher.
We plan to look into class balance feedback in more detail in the near future. I do apologize that we have been receiving wonderful feedback from you guys, but have not been able to address it as quickly as we would have liked. As we move forward with the fixes for the current items at hand, we do plan on giving balance feedback an in-depth review and communicate with our players on that progress. Thanks for your patience, support, and understanding!
Lol what a crock, GF and GWF are total garbage, Morons like this guy are clueless.
Something needs to be done, I love my GWF but no one will pick me up for any dungeons. They only want TS, CW and DC.
Yeah the developers are idiots, I am sad I wasted my money on the founder pack and made a GWF my main, when my 30 rogue does MORE damage than my 54 GWF, you know this game is a crock.
Guardian Fighters in my opinion, are actually OP.
Don't believe me? I don't care lmao. Believe what you want.
Less GFs means more squishies for me to squash.
Yes, they need to buff the GF a lot. Don't buff their aggro generation, just buff their dps more. That way I can kill people even faster in pvp while they tremble in fear when they see me!
To buff more their DPS!!!!!!!!??!!! Are u jokin? GF dps is absolutely insane atm! It's higher then GWF one. U think it 's normal? Roll again your gf and make a good build. 2 GF in my guild. Both them have amazing dps
To buff more their DPS!!!!!!!!??!!! Are u jokin? GF dps is absolutely insane atm! It's higher then GWF one. U think it 's normal? Roll again your gf and make a good build. 2 GF in my guild. Both them have amazing dps
I agree. It's not the DPS that the GF that's lacking but the aggro hold/threat gen that needs buffing. GF loses aggro way too quickly. It doesn't need to be a lot, but some will help.
ill tell you something, warrior classes are normally the worst ones in the pen and paper game, just because of the fact they normally rely on armour, where rogues rely on thier dex, way too many times have i seen rogues and rangers end up with stupidly high armour class just because of thier dex, from what ive played so far, thief has died once in this game, great weapon fighter was swinging at everything but i had to delete at lwevel ten as it was pulling teeth, my guardian kills at about the same speed as the thief but only if hes hitting multiple targets, and when hitting the multiple targets hes also pulling the aggro, only problem is the defence stance turns him into slow single enemy fighter, and that then drops aggro greatly, cleric .... well thats self explanatory no different to when lotro first started out and bards pulled everything within a 2 mile radius .... infact in comparison to lotro the whole situation is so much better, aggro is a lot less apparent, and some of the same tips and tricks apply
Guardian Fighters in my opinion, are actually OP.
Don't believe me? I don't care lmao. Believe what you want.
Less GFs means more squishies for me to squash.
Sure they are son, fraps some videos and give us links.
To buff more their DPS!!!!!!!!??!!! Are u jokin? GF dps is absolutely insane atm! It's higher then GWF one. U think it 's normal? Roll again your gf and make a good build. 2 GF in my guild. Both them have amazing dps
You clearly didn't read the last sentence in my post, or maybe L2Read? The more people cry about TR and CW, the harder I will wreck them in PVP, which is the only thing fun in this game. And lulz at the guy above who post he can wreck any class 1v1 except for pro cleric's in his tank spec. You're doing it wrong buddy.
ill tell you something, warrior classes are normally the worst ones in the pen and paper game, just because of the fact they normally rely on armour, where rogues rely on thier dex, way too many times have i seen rogues and rangers end up with stupidly high armour class just because of thier dex, from what ive played so far, thief has died once in this game, great weapon fighter was swinging at everything but i had to delete at lwevel ten as it was pulling teeth, my guardian kills at about the same speed as the thief but only if hes hitting multiple targets, and when hitting the multiple targets hes also pulling the aggro, only problem is the defence stance turns him into slow single enemy fighter, and that then drops aggro greatly, cleric .... well thats self explanatory no different to when lotro first started out and bards pulled everything within a 2 mile radius .... infact in comparison to lotro the whole situation is so much better, aggro is a lot less apparent, and some of the same tips and tricks apply
Nobody is reading that broken English wall of text BS. Use some paragraphs kiddo.
I've been thinking about this for awhile, and I think I've put together a few separate factors that all added together make Great Weapon fighters feel so... fragile.
First;
Taking damage to gain points toward Unstoppable means the class is taking damage, when every other class in the game is rewarded for avoiding it. GFs avoid damage via Blocking strategically, the other three through Dodge and dodge variants. So, just to get any use out of my class based special power, I have to take damage even if I don't really want to.
Second;
Those other class defense abilities, Blocking and the Dodge variants, all come with "Invincibility", Blocking takes all damage the Guardian Fighter would take in the characters place, so in a way it's almost like a second health bar to tend too, but the GF gets abilities practically built in just to help maintain it. Dodge [and the Dodge variants] all come with built in Invincibility frames, so even if a player is "Barely" dodging out of an aoe, he'll often take zero damage when he slides, teleports or rolls out.
Sprint has not only no frames of invincibility, it doesn't even feature any bonus damage mitigation at all. So, it's a pretty bad trade off to have a "Somewhat more situationally useful" sprint for moving in and out of combat, because the loss of damage prevention adds up to a lot of additional damage being taken.
Third;
And finally, the loss of the heal on pop effect from Unstoppable makes it a pretty weak special class ability. Ok, I break out of any CC, and am briefly immune to CC, take a bit less damage for a few seconds, and my at-wills all activate faster. The extra speed on the At-wills is counterbalanced by a debuff to At wills damage though.
The best use of unstoppable seems to be using the immunity to Crowd Control and extra resistance to run around and survive a few moments longer when getting the points needed to use unstoppable at all left you half dead already. I'm honestly no longer sure why Unstoppable is supposed to be something we want to build up when I look at it's effects on paper.
In Alpha, when popping Unstoppable healed you, this worked and made sense, if the heal itself might have been too strong. I'd have cut it's power and made it a HOT instead of all at once, myself.. like a DOT that lasted as long as the Unstoppable was up, perhaps. Removing it as was done so far makes the class feel .. fragile.
In any event, I think it's not any one of these three issues holding back the GWF class, it's all of them together. GFs have much better self healing options than GWFs do, and that certainly doesn't feel right either, since we are capped to using Scale armor with it's 50% Deflection value.
It almost feels like the only viable GWF build at the moment, and only then at high level, is one that emphasizes Crits for damage and Defense and Deflect for aiding with damage reduction.. and we'll still be chugging potions harder than any other class in the game doing that.
If you go Destroyer you'll gain Unstoppable by dealing damage.
You need to dodge the AoEs later in the game, trying to tank all the damage and potion chugging is not a viable option, even if it stacks Unstoppable quicker.
Well I've heard that feat was really bad from research I've done.
And as for avoiding dmg, I was speaking mainly from just leveling. I feel punished for avoiding dmg, by losing dmg.
Comments
I personally think Sure Strike needs a straight up dmg boost.
For a single target only attack it's dmg is pathetic. I out dmg it spamming reaping strikes. Do about ~400 in a full sure strike combo, do about 440 in a fully charged reaping strike.
Also the way Unstoppable works is annoying IMO, only working when hit, and the other options to gain them are pretty weak. On paper it sounds like it would work, more dmg taken the stronger you'll get somewhat. But you need to be healed a lot to actually take all the abuse to even get it in the first place.
I don't really understand why this class doesn't have any other lifesteal/heals outside of Restoring Strike. It feels like it should have plenty of them, but for some reason the Guardian gets the massive lifesteal daily AND an At Will that heals, doesn't make sense to me. GWF should have a passive for lifestealing, and an aoe attack for lifestealing since he's meant to be "tanking" the crowds of mobs, and only gains unstoppable when damaged. And unstoppable should also be prolonged when hit to actually punish people for attacking him.
TBH I don't dodge attacks so I can GAIN unstoppable, but I dodge attacks when I have unstoppable because that dmg taken isn't giving me more unstoppable, it's kind of backwards.
Ahahah so you'll run around with the cleric in a T2 dungeon waiting for your taunt to cool down so you can taunt the 20+ mobs chasing him so he can live for a few extra seconds? Get a clue of end game before you say something HAMSTER cause you're doing it wrong if that's your "best plan". Just give GF more dmg and that's all I care.
If you go Destroyer you'll gain Unstoppable by dealing damage.
You need to dodge the AoEs later in the game, trying to tank all the damage and potion chugging is not a viable option, even if it stacks Unstoppable quicker.
- Titania Silverblade, the Iron Rose of Myth Drannor (Lvl 60 GWF, Destroyer)
- Gwyneth, the Cowardly Cat Burglar Drowling (Lvl 60 TR, Saboteur)
- Lady Rowanne Firehair, Heartwarder of Sune (Lvl 33 DC)
- Satella, Sensate (LvL 44 CW, Renegade, Non-Active)
Check Steppenkat's Foundry Quest Reviews!
we been waiting here so dont say just do it..
Before you "balance" any powers, how about just getting the existing abilities to work properly, including feats, etc.?
The classes might play very differently if you just made half of the abilities and feats work as they are intended.
Then you can start balancing, because that will make some classes VERY OP.
If you think that Encounter power is your best, much less only, taunt, then you're doing it wrong and need to roll a Rogue and let the adults handle the tanking.
Neverwinter is in beta testing with bugs, game imbalances, roll backs, etc to be expected. If you wished a polished product you should wait for Neverwinter to be officially released. If you do not want to beta test software, then why are you beta testing Neverwinter?
Beat three different GWFs in total dmg output in a dungeon by at least 2:1. And I did this as a GF(a class that sucks) in cheap pvp gear.
My experience with GWFs as a cleric today:
defeat a GWF 1v1 during a pvp match with full HP. I recently got 60 on my Cleric, had a GS as low as 7400.
GWFs are pathetic. It's such a ****ty class it makes me wanna throw up. I'm never going to run a dungeon with a GWF unless they get buffed up bigtime. I'd rather leave and find another group.
Of course, so is Rogues sucking.
But seriously, fighters being awesome in 4E is one reason among many why it's the best D&D. If ever there's a good reason for Neverwinter to be more like D&D, that's one right there.
My experience with rocks as a paper yesterday:
Beat three different rocks in total dmg output in a dungeon by at least 2:1. And I did this as a paper(a class that sucks) in cheap pvp gear.
My experience with rocks as a Spock today:
defeat a rock 1v1 during a pvp match with full HP. I recently got 60 on my Spock, had a GS of 7400.
rocks are pathetic. It's such a ****ty class it makes me wanna throw up. I promsied [sic] to ymself [sic] to never run a dungeon with a rock. I'd rather leave and find another group.
Well, spiffy, but the longer you wait the further your fighter classes and only tank in the game continue to be left behind.
Actually they nerfed the GWF from the closed beta to here....s its not that they don't care....I just think they maybe they don't like us very much....
And you would be better with another TR or DC and not the GWF...just saying....and thats the problem
The problem is though out AOE isn't even that great.....at higher levels even the trash gets hard and take a while to kill. Sure you can hit 5 at a time, but they all hit you back too.....
Too bad we only get one or two dodges if we are lucky because our stamina runs out so fast and thats if you do the wrong thing and stand still when fighting. There are so many big AOEs in the game that I literally run out of stamina getting out of them. Then guess what they drop another one and Im stuck.....
Not really.
Unfortunately I out-DPS every GWF I've ever been in a group with my GF. I'm usually top with no TR or 2nd with TR in the dps charts.
PPL complaining about GF don't know how to build their character. HOWEVER: I do believe GWF needs some help. They are seriously lacking in everything. It's like they're the jack-of-all-trades but actually are the "suck-of-all-trades."
Sure they are thats why they get kicked from high level dungeon runs right??
Unfortunately the community always boots GWF and GF from their groups because they want the other classes, in particular a cleric. This might have something to do with how the que works also. I often sit in groups that when formed, have 2 TR and 2 CW, and then we wait for a cleric. The GF and GWF always fills the 5th spot, so they get booted for a cleric. It is hard to find a balance with these classes because players often make their judgements off PVP. Sometimes my CW owns, and sometimes I get owned. It just depends. I generally fear GWF most in PVP (I have a 10k GS CW), because they break CC and run fast. Once they get close i'm dead because I get stun locked and dps'd very quickly. On the other hand, sometimes I can tell the GWF has a much lower GS as my dps owns them quickly, and I'm able to survive if they get close.
Key thing is, GS does come into play and it is hard for players to make judgement on how a class performs unless you have played it yourself. Sure I feel like my dps is low when I play GWF< but that is because my first toon is a CW renegade build and that is the basis of my comparison. On the other hand, I have a much harder time surviving on boss fights with my CW because I am often agroing the adds on boss fights trying to control them, and then I can't get away or use heal pots fast enough. With my GWF, I can sprint away from bad guys far enough to refresh any healing timer...and my basic survivability is much higher.
Lol what a crock, GF and GWF are total garbage, Morons like this guy are clueless.
I can demolish any class (xept for pro clerics) with my def pure tank.
in 1 vs 1 of course.
Yeah the developers are idiots, I am sad I wasted my money on the founder pack and made a GWF my main, when my 30 rogue does MORE damage than my 54 GWF, you know this game is a crock.
Sure ya can son, fraps some videos.
Don't believe me? I don't care lmao. Believe what you want.
Less GFs means more squishies for me to squash.
To buff more their DPS!!!!!!!!??!!! Are u jokin? GF dps is absolutely insane atm! It's higher then GWF one. U think it 's normal? Roll again your gf and make a good build. 2 GF in my guild. Both them have amazing dps
I agree. It's not the DPS that the GF that's lacking but the aggro hold/threat gen that needs buffing. GF loses aggro way too quickly. It doesn't need to be a lot, but some will help.
Sure they are son, fraps some videos and give us links.
You clearly didn't read the last sentence in my post, or maybe L2Read? The more people cry about TR and CW, the harder I will wreck them in PVP, which is the only thing fun in this game. And lulz at the guy above who post he can wreck any class 1v1 except for pro cleric's in his tank spec. You're doing it wrong buddy.
Nobody is reading that broken English wall of text BS. Use some paragraphs kiddo.
First;
Taking damage to gain points toward Unstoppable means the class is taking damage, when every other class in the game is rewarded for avoiding it. GFs avoid damage via Blocking strategically, the other three through Dodge and dodge variants. So, just to get any use out of my class based special power, I have to take damage even if I don't really want to.
Second;
Those other class defense abilities, Blocking and the Dodge variants, all come with "Invincibility", Blocking takes all damage the Guardian Fighter would take in the characters place, so in a way it's almost like a second health bar to tend too, but the GF gets abilities practically built in just to help maintain it. Dodge [and the Dodge variants] all come with built in Invincibility frames, so even if a player is "Barely" dodging out of an aoe, he'll often take zero damage when he slides, teleports or rolls out.
Sprint has not only no frames of invincibility, it doesn't even feature any bonus damage mitigation at all. So, it's a pretty bad trade off to have a "Somewhat more situationally useful" sprint for moving in and out of combat, because the loss of damage prevention adds up to a lot of additional damage being taken.
Third;
And finally, the loss of the heal on pop effect from Unstoppable makes it a pretty weak special class ability. Ok, I break out of any CC, and am briefly immune to CC, take a bit less damage for a few seconds, and my at-wills all activate faster. The extra speed on the At-wills is counterbalanced by a debuff to At wills damage though.
The best use of unstoppable seems to be using the immunity to Crowd Control and extra resistance to run around and survive a few moments longer when getting the points needed to use unstoppable at all left you half dead already. I'm honestly no longer sure why Unstoppable is supposed to be something we want to build up when I look at it's effects on paper.
In Alpha, when popping Unstoppable healed you, this worked and made sense, if the heal itself might have been too strong. I'd have cut it's power and made it a HOT instead of all at once, myself.. like a DOT that lasted as long as the Unstoppable was up, perhaps. Removing it as was done so far makes the class feel .. fragile.
In any event, I think it's not any one of these three issues holding back the GWF class, it's all of them together. GFs have much better self healing options than GWFs do, and that certainly doesn't feel right either, since we are capped to using Scale armor with it's 50% Deflection value.
It almost feels like the only viable GWF build at the moment, and only then at high level, is one that emphasizes Crits for damage and Defense and Deflect for aiding with damage reduction.. and we'll still be chugging potions harder than any other class in the game doing that.
Well I've heard that feat was really bad from research I've done.
And as for avoiding dmg, I was speaking mainly from just leveling. I feel punished for avoiding dmg, by losing dmg.