Amazing how many people "tested" this bug and the reported to Cryptic afterward.
Here's a hint on how to handle situations like this:
1. You hear about a massive exploit.
2. You report the exploit to Cryptic without trying it and provide links to where you heard about it.
Notice there is nothing about testing the massive exploit, this is so you don't get caught in the ban waves.
I'm sure some of it was generally well intentioned but Cryptic can't assertain intentions, they can only look at actions. A ban first ask questions later approach is better in cases like these anyway.
Do you know what other betas do when there is a massive exploit/bug in the beta process?? They roll the entire server/game back to a solid point and patch the bug and continue with testing.
Not PWE...they continued to collect Zen and partially rolled back the server instead of everything to a fixed point and decide to ban very person who even touched the exploit out for sheer experimentation.
The fact is a very small number of people broke the server in the first 2 hours of the exploit as opposed the majority who looked at it as a novelty and fully expected the servers to be brought down and simply rolled back to the first incident of the negative integer use on the AH.
That minority bought up every single blue and purple item, keep, resold at stupid insane comical AD prices and used the AD to buy up RMT items etc.
They couldn't roll they servers back because the exploit has been in use since DAY ONE of BETA. They chose to screw over the basic non-hardcore tester/players in the long run instead of simply doing the normal industry standard temp bans and beta roll backs or even wipes because they are making money off the game now as a FULL RELEASE.
0
lazenbyMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 26Arc User
Open betas serve the dual purpose of demonstrating a product to potential consumers, and testing among an extremely wide user base likely to bring to light obscure errors that a much smaller testing team might not find.
There is no stipulation that requires Cryptic must wipe the game before release nor sabotage the beta test by exploiting the game.
The same people that want you to believe that Beta tests are for anything other than testing wrote that Wikipedia article. Wikipedia is not an authority on anything. It is just the collective brain sludge of society with factoids mingled in.
0
lazenbyMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 26Arc User
edited May 2013
This isn't really a beta test. They just put the word Beta up there to excuse away major problems. Can we please accept this now and quit talking about it?
0
lazenbyMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 26Arc User
Amazing how many people "tested" this bug and the reported to Cryptic afterward.
Here's a hint on how to handle situations like this:
1. You hear about a massive exploit.
2. You report the exploit to Cryptic without trying it and provide links to where you heard about it.
Notice there is nothing about testing the massive exploit, this is so you don't get caught in the ban waves.
I'm sure some of it was generally well intentioned but Cryptic can't assertain intentions, they can only look at actions. A ban first ask questions later approach is better in cases like these anyway.
I heard there is an exploit where if you punch Lord Neverwinter in the face you get a million Ardent Coins. I'm gonna submit a bug report for it.
A lot of companies use customer investments to help them during product development, testing, etc before the game is released. This doesn't change the life cycle status of the software being developed... Where you not aware that you were playing a beta product when you invested?
This would have to be the first time in the history of beta testing where testers were banned for testing a bug. Beta testers would lose their privileges if they were being rude to other players, making racial comments, etc. Not for testing bugs even ones that impact the economy. Now with this bug being in effect for a while now. A lot of testers could have come together to promote awareness and started to use the bug while telling other. This would in effect cause Cryptic to take notice, fixing the bug and rolling back the servers. Good job testers...
But since this is not a beta, the testers are exploiters and are now banned.
This is roughly how beta testers were through the years.
A beta tester (1980s +) used to be someone that the company pays to thoroughly test their game. There are still some of these out there.
MMO Beta testers (1990s +)were players who wanted to play the game and managed to get free access to the closed beta/open beta.
Closed Beta testers of (2005 +) were a mix of paying customers willing to preorder the game or players who were lucky enough to get into the closed beta.
Here is some basic common knowledge information that you might want to know about MMO Betas. Closed Beta was the final product with some bugs to be ironed out (This was typical for all games. MMO or not). At the completion of all beta tests characters are wiped. Then the game is launched. To promote fairness. In the last 10 years, MMOs started to encourage preorders by giving a 5 day head start at launch. There has never been a 5 day head start for an Open Beta. (Until Neverwinter.)
Beta Testers were never banned for testing extensively or "exploiting" a bug in a Closed or Open Beta. Mainly because the bug could change what it is doing if abused repeatedly so the results could prove interesting. Proper testing is needed in order to determine this and possible side effects of repairing said bug.
If you do not want to test a beta product you should avoid playing it until it is officially released... Neverwinter is in Open Beta with bugs, imbalances and roll backs expected during the testing of the beta product.
The real point here is: "You cannot ban testers for doing their job testing exploits and bugs."
Otherwise you can stop testing now, because nobody will ever report an exploit or bug, because of fear that he will be banned.
"Marketing target reached, no more bugs reported! We launch this thing."
One month later, ship is sinking like the titanic. Gamebalance nonexistent, economy complete destroyed.
Money income: Zero.
I think I pass on Neverwinter, the founders pack, and warn every available person about PWE and Neverwinter.
If you found an exploit, you report it, or at least don't use it over and over again.
Exactly! Exploiting a game bug for personal gain is intentionally sabotaging the beta testing of Neverwinter. I agree that it is unusual that Cryptic is not wiping the game at the end of Open Beta but that doesn't change the fact the the software is in Open Beta testing...
If you don't want to beta test software then why are you beta testing Neverwinter? Why do you not wait until Neverwinter is officially released? I mean they put it in BOLD letters on their homepage:
I could be the only one that thinks this way but once a company starts selling stuff ingame and no more wipes it's not really a beta anymore. I feel it's just something for a company to hide behind when something goes wrong.
Do you know what other betas do when there is a massive exploit/bug in the beta process?? They roll the entire server/game back to a solid point and patch the bug and continue with testing.
Not PWE...they continued to collect Zen and partially rolled back the server instead of everything to a fixed point and decide to ban very person who even touched the exploit out for sheer experimentation.
The fact is a very small number of people broke the server in the first 2 hours of the exploit as opposed the majority who looked at it as a novelty and fully expected the servers to be brought down and simply rolled back to the first incident of the negative integer use on the AH.
That minority bought up every single blue and purple item, keep, resold at stupid insane comical AD prices and used the AD to buy up RMT items etc.
They couldn't roll they servers back because the exploit has been in use since DAY ONE of BETA. They chose to screw over the basic non-hardcore tester/players in the long run instead of simply doing the normal industry standard temp bans and beta roll backs or even wipes because they are making money off the game now as a FULL RELEASE.
This is the point that I believe non-PWE fangirls are harping about. I had somewhat high hopes about this, but it's obvious PWE has influenced this game too much. It was a great concept, but leave it to them to ruin it.
If you found an exploit, you report it, or at least don't use it over and over again.
But that is the point of a beta test. You are supposed to find bugs, abuse them, then report them to be fixed.
Lots of MMO's do this now, they release "open beta" with the promise of no more wipes. The problem with that idea is that you better be sure that the game is in good enough shape that there are no game breaking glitches that could happen.
You can't call something a beta test and declare "no more wipes" then have issues like this happen. Because at that point it's no longer a beta test, open beta or not. It's a soft release.
0
thelingarnMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 13Arc User
This is the real point, as succinctly as it will ever be written.
When "testers" are banned for reproducing a bug, they aren't testers.
When beta characters/resources/economy won't be removed before release, they aren't beta.
When money is actively changing hands, it is a product.
Sleep on, my friends, if it makes you happy. But don't expect the rest of us to dream your dreams.
Testers can and have been banned for sabotaging the beta test of software instead of focusing on testing the software, reporting the bugs and moving on.
It's unusual for an open beta not to be wiped before release but I don't think this disqualifies it from being beta software testing.
It is common for investors to pay into software during beta testing phase for a variety of reasons: early access to beta testing, cosmetic items, titles such as the Founders, etc.
But that is the point of a beta test. You are supposed to find bugs, abuse them, then report them to be fixed.
Lots of MMO's do this now, they release "open beta" with the promise of no more wipes. The problem with that idea is that you better be sure that the game is in good enough shape that there are no game breaking glitches that could happen.
You can't call something a beta test and declare "no more wipes" then have issues like this happen. Because at that point it's no longer a beta test, open beta or not. It's a soft release.
There is a reason all of the official game reviewers have not "reviewed" Neverwinter... It's because it is in Open Beta... It says it on the homepage in BOLD LETTERS.
Neverwinter isn't reviewed because it is still in open beta and they don't review games until they are released.
Release Date: TBA 2013
0
pujimsMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 10Arc User
edited May 2013
"Please note that, for a short period of time after account creation, posting new threads is disabled. After this probationary period, you'll be able to create threads as normal. "
Neverwinter is in Open Beta and there is no indication that this is not true. If a beta tester deliberately sabotages the testing of a beta product they would loose their testing privileges...
The whole point of "beta-testing" IS to do as much damage as possible to that devs can fix their ****. People now-a-days have NO clue what they're supposed to do during a beta.
This game isn't beta. This is full release. "Open-Beta" is just PR Bull**** so they can have an excuse for the mass amounts of bugs and exploits.
0
thelingarnMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 13Arc User
Testers can and have been banned for sabotaging the beta test of software instead of focusing on testing the software, reporting the bugs and moving on.
It's unusual for an open beta not to be wiped before release but I don't think this disqualifies it from being beta software testing.
It is common for investors to pay into software during beta testing phase for a variety of reasons: early access to beta testing, cosmetic items, titles such as the Founders, etc.
Anyone who used the AH/AD exploit is being banned. Reproducing and documenting a major bug like that is one of the duties of a tester. I will repeat: Reproducing and documenting a major, game breaking bug is EXACTLY what a tester is supposed to do in any phase of beta. If this was a known issue that they wanted people to stop testing, they could easily have put it in the forum and asked people to stop using it. But they didn't do that, because this isn't testing.
My characters are release characters. Every level I gain will continue until the end of time. Every AD I earn will be mine until I spend it. There is no testing involved in this process, and no distinction between what is happening now and what will happen after "release".
Being able to buy "founder" status or pre-order a game to get access to beta testing is common. Those pre-sales and founder bonuses are used to gauge interest in the game and to fund the development process. Being able to purchase anything from a cash shop with real money during Beta, any beta, is not. The zen you buy is a real product, the things you buy with zen are bought with real money. Those transactions are complete, forever, not beta-testing.
I keep calling you "friend". Wikipedia says a friendship is a relationship of mutual affection between two or more people.
Because I call you friend, do you think that means you have affection for me? Do you think it means I have affection for you?
Just as I can call you "friend" regardless of our feelings, they can call a product "open beta" regardless of what it actually is.
If they posted an exploit on youtube they deserve to be banned. Basically if you tell anyone but the devs about an exploit you deserve to be banned.
Let's do a thought experiment.
Player 1: Hey guys, I just found this really weird bug! Could you try it out and see if you can reproduce it? I am writing a report now, but if more people can do it, it would probably help them fix it.
Player 2-N: Sure, okay! Wow, that would totally ruin the economy if it was kept in the game!
Normal beta Dev response:
Devs: Wow guys, that was a terrible bug! Thanks for finding it, and testing it so carefully! High-fives all around!
Normal release Dev response:
Devs: Wow guys, you are all banned! Using and spreading such a major bug is clearly exploiting.
Question for you: Which situation do you think this resembles most?
0
terradraconisMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 17Arc User
edited May 2013
Your normal dev is a fantasy that doesn't exist anywhere. Any solid game is going to ban and ban hard anyone who publicly explains or shows an exploit.
Well, even as a huge fan boy nerd for this game (I NW ), I agree with part of what the OP is (rather verbosely) asking for. If you used the exploit once or twice within the process of testing, and immediately went through the procedure of reporting it (hint: this doesn't include publicizing it, jerks), you shouldn't have been banned for it. I've discovered exploits similar to this in games before, tested them (twice for good measure), reported them and received nothing but kudos from customer support. If you were banned for it, you should appeal it.
But you should do so without being a HAMSTER. Use your head and acknowledge that you were caught up in a crackdown while doing some good. It happens. Life isn't fair. If you whine about it (kind of like the OP is doing), then those of us with good sense are just going to shake our heads at you. If you say you'll never do something helpful here again (like the OP has), you're taking the wrong thing away from your experience.
Truth is, this is neither your fault or Cryptic's, but the exploiters who brought this whole situation about. And, perhaps the universe's fault, for generally just not being a fair place. And hey, if you're among the younger crowd here, take it as a friendly life lesson. One day when a few of you are all grown up, off to fight in some war, getting rocks thrown at you by the people you've just liberated from some random dictator, you'll be more prepared to handle it. All thanks to NW's banhammer.
_
[SIGPIC]Captain Electric and the Sapien Spider[/SIGPIC]
To be fair to cryptic, just because you haven't used the fake currency, doesn't mean that you aren't planning to use it. It's plain hard to tell if one is planning to store the AD for future use after all. What I would suggest is to email customer support, explain to them the situation, and if possible, any relevant tickets you had sent about the exploit (even if they were closed; I would assume they kept an archive of that) and the exact amount you had created.
Comments
Here's a hint on how to handle situations like this:
1. You hear about a massive exploit.
2. You report the exploit to Cryptic without trying it and provide links to where you heard about it.
Notice there is nothing about testing the massive exploit, this is so you don't get caught in the ban waves.
I'm sure some of it was generally well intentioned but Cryptic can't assertain intentions, they can only look at actions. A ban first ask questions later approach is better in cases like these anyway.
Not PWE...they continued to collect Zen and partially rolled back the server instead of everything to a fixed point and decide to ban very person who even touched the exploit out for sheer experimentation.
The fact is a very small number of people broke the server in the first 2 hours of the exploit as opposed the majority who looked at it as a novelty and fully expected the servers to be brought down and simply rolled back to the first incident of the negative integer use on the AH.
That minority bought up every single blue and purple item, keep, resold at stupid insane comical AD prices and used the AD to buy up RMT items etc.
They couldn't roll they servers back because the exploit has been in use since DAY ONE of BETA. They chose to screw over the basic non-hardcore tester/players in the long run instead of simply doing the normal industry standard temp bans and beta roll backs or even wipes because they are making money off the game now as a FULL RELEASE.
The same people that want you to believe that Beta tests are for anything other than testing wrote that Wikipedia article. Wikipedia is not an authority on anything. It is just the collective brain sludge of society with factoids mingled in.
I heard there is an exploit where if you punch Lord Neverwinter in the face you get a million Ardent Coins. I'm gonna submit a bug report for it.
A: 4, calling a tail a leg, doesn't make a tail a leg
- Abraham Lincoln
This would have to be the first time in the history of beta testing where testers were banned for testing a bug. Beta testers would lose their privileges if they were being rude to other players, making racial comments, etc. Not for testing bugs even ones that impact the economy. Now with this bug being in effect for a while now. A lot of testers could have come together to promote awareness and started to use the bug while telling other. This would in effect cause Cryptic to take notice, fixing the bug and rolling back the servers. Good job testers...
But since this is not a beta, the testers are exploiters and are now banned.
This is roughly how beta testers were through the years.
A beta tester (1980s +) used to be someone that the company pays to thoroughly test their game. There are still some of these out there.
MMO Beta testers (1990s +)were players who wanted to play the game and managed to get free access to the closed beta/open beta.
Closed Beta testers of (2005 +) were a mix of paying customers willing to preorder the game or players who were lucky enough to get into the closed beta.
Here is some basic common knowledge information that you might want to know about MMO Betas. Closed Beta was the final product with some bugs to be ironed out (This was typical for all games. MMO or not). At the completion of all beta tests characters are wiped. Then the game is launched. To promote fairness. In the last 10 years, MMOs started to encourage preorders by giving a 5 day head start at launch. There has never been a 5 day head start for an Open Beta. (Until Neverwinter.)
Beta Testers were never banned for testing extensively or "exploiting" a bug in a Closed or Open Beta. Mainly because the bug could change what it is doing if abused repeatedly so the results could prove interesting. Proper testing is needed in order to determine this and possible side effects of repairing said bug.
The real point here is: "You cannot ban testers for doing their job testing exploits and bugs."
Otherwise you can stop testing now, because nobody will ever report an exploit or bug, because of fear that he will be banned.
"Marketing target reached, no more bugs reported! We launch this thing."
One month later, ship is sinking like the titanic.
Money income: Zero.
I think I pass on Neverwinter, the founders pack, and warn every available person about PWE and Neverwinter.
Goodbye....
Exactly! Exploiting a game bug for personal gain is intentionally sabotaging the beta testing of Neverwinter. I agree that it is unusual that Cryptic is not wiping the game at the end of Open Beta but that doesn't change the fact the the software is in Open Beta testing...
If you don't want to beta test software then why are you beta testing Neverwinter? Why do you not wait until Neverwinter is officially released? I mean they put it in BOLD letters on their homepage:
NOW IN OPEN BETA!
http://nw.perfectworld.com/
I've been saying this since day 1
This is the point that I believe non-PWE fangirls are harping about. I had somewhat high hopes about this, but it's obvious PWE has influenced this game too much. It was a great concept, but leave it to them to ruin it.
But that is the point of a beta test. You are supposed to find bugs, abuse them, then report them to be fixed.
Lots of MMO's do this now, they release "open beta" with the promise of no more wipes. The problem with that idea is that you better be sure that the game is in good enough shape that there are no game breaking glitches that could happen.
You can't call something a beta test and declare "no more wipes" then have issues like this happen. Because at that point it's no longer a beta test, open beta or not. It's a soft release.
This is the real point, as succinctly as it will ever be written.
When "testers" are banned for reproducing a bug, they aren't testers.
When beta characters/resources/economy won't be removed before release, they aren't beta.
When money is actively changing hands, it is a product.
Sleep on, my friends, if it makes you happy. But don't expect the rest of us to dream your dreams.
Testers can and have been banned for sabotaging the beta test of software instead of focusing on testing the software, reporting the bugs and moving on.
It's unusual for an open beta not to be wiped before release but I don't think this disqualifies it from being beta software testing.
It is common for investors to pay into software during beta testing phase for a variety of reasons: early access to beta testing, cosmetic items, titles such as the Founders, etc.
There is a reason all of the official game reviewers have not "reviewed" Neverwinter... It's because it is in Open Beta... It says it on the homepage in BOLD LETTERS.
Check out Metacritic: http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/neverwinter
Neverwinter isn't reviewed because it is still in open beta and they don't review games until they are released.
Release Date: TBA 2013
How long is a short time?
The whole point of "beta-testing" IS to do as much damage as possible to that devs can fix their ****. People now-a-days have NO clue what they're supposed to do during a beta.
This game isn't beta. This is full release. "Open-Beta" is just PR Bull**** so they can have an excuse for the mass amounts of bugs and exploits.
Anyone who used the AH/AD exploit is being banned. Reproducing and documenting a major bug like that is one of the duties of a tester. I will repeat: Reproducing and documenting a major, game breaking bug is EXACTLY what a tester is supposed to do in any phase of beta. If this was a known issue that they wanted people to stop testing, they could easily have put it in the forum and asked people to stop using it. But they didn't do that, because this isn't testing.
My characters are release characters. Every level I gain will continue until the end of time. Every AD I earn will be mine until I spend it. There is no testing involved in this process, and no distinction between what is happening now and what will happen after "release".
Being able to buy "founder" status or pre-order a game to get access to beta testing is common. Those pre-sales and founder bonuses are used to gauge interest in the game and to fund the development process. Being able to purchase anything from a cash shop with real money during Beta, any beta, is not. The zen you buy is a real product, the things you buy with zen are bought with real money. Those transactions are complete, forever, not beta-testing.
I keep calling you "friend". Wikipedia says a friendship is a relationship of mutual affection between two or more people.
Because I call you friend, do you think that means you have affection for me? Do you think it means I have affection for you?
Just as I can call you "friend" regardless of our feelings, they can call a product "open beta" regardless of what it actually is.
BAN HAMMER has been fully beta tested now, thank you for your assistance.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
If they posted an exploit on youtube they deserve to be banned. Basically if you tell anyone but the devs about an exploit you deserve to be banned.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Let's do a thought experiment.
Player 1: Hey guys, I just found this really weird bug! Could you try it out and see if you can reproduce it? I am writing a report now, but if more people can do it, it would probably help them fix it.
Player 2-N: Sure, okay! Wow, that would totally ruin the economy if it was kept in the game!
Normal beta Dev response:
Devs: Wow guys, that was a terrible bug! Thanks for finding it, and testing it so carefully! High-fives all around!
Normal release Dev response:
Devs: Wow guys, you are all banned! Using and spreading such a major bug is clearly exploiting.
Question for you: Which situation do you think this resembles most?
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
But you should do so without being a HAMSTER. Use your head and acknowledge that you were caught up in a crackdown while doing some good. It happens. Life isn't fair. If you whine about it (kind of like the OP is doing), then those of us with good sense are just going to shake our heads at you. If you say you'll never do something helpful here again (like the OP has), you're taking the wrong thing away from your experience.
Truth is, this is neither your fault or Cryptic's, but the exploiters who brought this whole situation about. And, perhaps the universe's fault, for generally just not being a fair place. And hey, if you're among the younger crowd here, take it as a friendly life lesson. One day when a few of you are all grown up, off to fight in some war, getting rocks thrown at you by the people you've just liberated from some random dictator, you'll be more prepared to handle it. All thanks to NW's banhammer.
[SIGPIC]Captain Electric and the Sapien Spider[/SIGPIC]
"YES, PLEASE"
Vote YES for the Foundry in Champions Online.
@Captain-Electric | CoH/Virtue veteran | Proud new Champion
This is an open beta. Start treating it like one.