Blizzard solved this issue in WoW not long ago by simply forcing an item to bind to your character if you rolled Need and won the roll! It's the best way to stop ninjas from Need rolling everything and selling'em on the AH!
At least this way, if some jerk Need rolls an item they don't need, instead of getting hundreds to thousands of AD from the AH, all they will get is a few silver or copper by vendoring it to a NPC! Do you really wanna end up on 4 people's ignore list and potentially be called a ninja looter in Zone chat in front of hundreds of other players for a few silver and copper coins? I don't think so.
The entire game is designed to get us to buy Zen to convert to AD to buy stuff. That's why there is no loot system and everything is bind on equip. They want expensive stuff in the AH that people want. That's just the way it is. No point wasting your breath complaining about it. I only Need on things I can use but all that means is I'm being a mug. I think in future I'm going to just do what everyone else is doing and just accept this is an AD/AH based game. It's working exactly as intended and players Needing on everything are playing it exactly as intended. Polite people like me are just nerfing ourselves, especially as it seems the NW 'community' is little more than a pack of feral dogs anyway.
This is the truth.
It would be easy for them to change (not just talking; I'm a developer) but they havn't for a reason. Puts more money in their pockets.
It's how the game is designed and also one of the major reasons I don't like the game. They would've changed it already if they were interested in the system we would like to be in place.
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aeonbluessMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
I play a lot of dungeons. The vast majority of players do not Ninja need roll. On many occasions a blue item dropped that no one could use, and everyone rolled greed. More often the issue is that nothing drops for my class or the one thing that does drop is a ring. Some times I get lucky and 2 or 3 blue items drop for my class, and I win them all with out contest. I have played a few epic, and had basically the same experience. My recommendation is to play more dungeons so you have a greater experience for your expectations.
IMO instigate bind on Need. You hit need and win it is bound to you. That way it cannot go to AH.
Maybe go one step further and make said bound item be worth the default 22c to vendor making it pointless to need unless you really do. I know the issues here are you cant see the stats of an item that is not identified yet ... that requires more thought
I just NEED everything I can use and PASS everything I cant use...
Since everyone "needs" items like crafting materials, it's better manners to roll greed on those.
I didn't realize that the darned pirate hat was equippable by all classes, saw I could wear it and rolled need while still wiping up adds. The entire rest of the party had already greed rolled while I wasn't paying attention, and I felt like a complete dickhead.
Then I go solo. As Natural born single player. Game is easy enough, as it is. First casual MMORPG I ever seen.
Then you haven't seen a lot of modern MMOs. Most of the ones that've come out in the last few years are soloable to the cap, at least through quest content. (And a few have solo & group versions of their dungeons.)
edit: but yeah, there's absolutely no reason you should be able to roll Need on an item that's class-locked to another class. If you want it for selling, that's Greed.
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machinegunbluesMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 10Arc User
edited May 2013
Yeah, as much as I love this game, the loot system REALLY needs a look. Restricting 'Need' to class items (or items not for any particular class i.e. enchants) is pretty standard in most MMOs I've seen and not working this in seems like a huge oversight.
I've been lucky enough to have gotten reasonable loot rollers in my PUGs thus far, but I've heard the horror stories.
Yeah, as much as I love this game, the loot system REALLY needs a look. Restricting 'Need' to class items (or items not for any particular class i.e. enchants) is pretty standard in most MMOs I've seen and not working this in seems like a huge oversight.
I've been lucky enough to have gotten reasonable loot rollers in my PUGs thus far, but I've heard the horror stories.
I don't know why people keep mistaking 'working as intended so as to maximise sale of Zen' for 'oversight'. The game is, sadly, intended to be played with everyone grabbing what they can and selling it in the AH. Do you imagine it was an 'oversight' to make everything Bind on Equip.
The loot system is working precisely as designed and intended. The choice players have is to go with that flow or behave against your own interests, unless you are in a group that plays by traditional rules.
Is it hard to talk a minute before the start of the dungeon? Just say need on class items, greed on rest. If they dont agree just quit the team, but i guess not all clases have the luxury to do that.
I don't understand the problem . Most treasure chest EVERYONE can loot , just stand in line . The boss drop , well its only going to one guy anyways everyone might as well roll and trade it for the item they need . It sounds fair to me .
Yeah, I agree with the OP!, I just dungeon with someone else, I was busy killing bosse, and a stupid kid got mad at me, saying I took a gear that I cannot wear. I mean serously?? I dont even know what did I got, and most of the time I lost the roll. what right he has to get mad at me?? I was clicking shift+2 but sometimes I was panicking. and a windows pop up, so I press my key board fast, and sometimes I end up pressing shift+1.
serously stupid kid should just focus on helping killing the bosses, but instead have time to type a lot of HAMSTER just to get mad on a piece of gear that I didnt know what did I get?? >:(
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cireous04Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 22Arc User
Yeah, I agree with the OP!, I just dungeon with someone else, I was busy killing bosse, and a stupid kid got mad at me, saying I took a gear that I cannot wear. I mean serously?? I dont even know what did I got, and most of the time I lost the roll. what right he has to get mad at me?? I was clicking shift+2 but sometimes I was panicking. and a windows pop up, so I press my key board fast, and sometimes I end up pressing shift+1.
serously stupid kid should just focus on helping killing the bosses, but instead have time to type a lot of HAMSTER just to get mad on a piece of gear that I didnt know what did I get?? >:(
Just.... lol
I think it happens to the best of us.
Sometimes out of habit... when I first enter a dungeon, if I don't carefully inspect how people are rolling, I'll need on green items (that I can use) without even thinking, because seriously, in about 85% of the dungeons I've been in, this is how everyone deals with the stuff anyone can equip. They need it.
I mean most of this loot is all unidentified, right? Who really knows if they need an item or not? (*sigh*) So as long as it's not RED and clearly not meant for you, if you can use it, you may as well need it.
(obviously referring to lower level content here)
Right. So when at least one other person is needing on stuff like belts and rings and enhancements, you should do so as well. Unless you want to walk out of the experience with absolutely nothing.
At the beginning of a dungeon it's hard to know what the consensus is, with mobs smacking you in your face: So I've also on occasion been accused of needing when it's assumed that I shouldn't. It's easy enough to just start greeding from that point forward. It's a simple mistake.
This game is so fast paced, mistakes in looting are bound to happen.
I think what drives me the most crazy is when that one person needing on everything, does so, and everyone else greeds on everything... fully recognizing what's happening and refusing to either make a huge fuss about it or need themselves. Sometimes I just greed along with them, feeling like an ******* should I behave like that "one guy" and need on stupid stuff as well.
So we all walk away with nothing. There is no virtuous accomplishment in doing this, in the end.
It is a loot system and economy designed for ninjas. You are either a ninja or a loser, pick your poison
That is exactly the problem. The way the system works now actively encourages needtards. It rewards the needtard and penalizes the good human being.
All they have to do is disable the 'need' button for equipment that is specific to a class other than yours. That would solve the major issue. And if they wanted extra credit, also disable it for enchants, resources, and equipment that isn't class specific so that everyone is guaranteed to make the same roll choice and no one has to worry about whether or not it's cool to roll need on a belt.
This isn't a Moon shot we're talking about here. The problem is straightforward and so is the solution.
How about people get stuff seperately and no one gets to see another persons loot?
I agree that is the best option.......the system is not flawed though TBH...it is the greed and lack of MMo values common to many players.....that ruin it
Today we fight the GAULS......monstrous and HAIRY beyond reason.
I agree that is the best option.......the system is not flawed though TBH...it is the greed and lack of MMo values common to many players.....that ruin it
But that's precisely why the system is flawed. You can't make people cool but you can prevent them from being uncool. The system rewards the needtards rather then preventing them from acting in a needtarded manner, therefore it is flawed. A very simple alteration to the existing system would render the inherent uncoolness of the needtard irrelevant.
yes, change green runestones also to greed only ;p because i had my first people crying about it yesterday, because i was needing on them.
i can`t help, every group just chose need i played with, without a single word.
but obviously some can`t deal with that, and yes they go wild about it.
and yes i kick them for it
so just make it greed only, so basicly the only option is need then, but crybabies won`t notice it.
think about it...what is going to stop a rogue who already has an item(rogue only item) from rolling need if he already has one..the system will need to block a need if they have it as well....Not seen that done in any MMO..IMo it will create new issues.........
I do not spend my MMo time looking at the players and insepcting their gear.......
Today we fight the GAULS......monstrous and HAIRY beyond reason.
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mreagleye2Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 6Arc User
edited May 2013
It's just generally seen good manners to only NEED if you can use that item on the current character and its an upgrade, been playing MMO's since they first appeared and that has always been the silent understanding.
That way if you cant use but wanna sell then you greed and if no1 else can use and everybody greeds then that's fair enough.
Some games have implemented a Need on Class gear system so if you aint of that class then you can only greed
People should just be a little more considerate, but hey it's 2013 and consideration and good manners are just fluff words put in to fill a space because its expected even though to a growing number of people lack the character to have either of those abilities
Understand that the TR or whatever that is abusing you for needing on those purple daggers u didn't really need has probably done 20 dungeon runs and that's the first time something he/she can actually use has dropped
think about it...what is going to stop a rogue who already has an item(rogue only item) from rolling need if he already has one..the system will need to block a need if they have it as well....Not seen that done in any MMO..IMo it will create new issues.........
No one cares if a rogue rolls need on a rogue item. The problem is the CW rolling need on the TR item, and the GF item, and the GWF item.
Restricting need as described will not "create new issues". It SOLVES the issue. Honestly, it's not rocket science.
i am angry ..........the game meant to played in both single and multilayer ..........but blue item only drops in dungeon with random ppl party .....i passed many blue items that was nt for my class but when i get blue one for me some one greed it on ...i (lvl 60 gwf) got one blue item in single player mission that was drooped by normal monster that has no graphics on ......i dnt knw if after lvl 60 normal monster drops blue or it was a bug...coz i always got blue iteam in boss chest
Comments
At least this way, if some jerk Need rolls an item they don't need, instead of getting hundreds to thousands of AD from the AH, all they will get is a few silver or copper by vendoring it to a NPC! Do you really wanna end up on 4 people's ignore list and potentially be called a ninja looter in Zone chat in front of hundreds of other players for a few silver and copper coins? I don't think so.
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This is the truth.
It would be easy for them to change (not just talking; I'm a developer) but they havn't for a reason. Puts more money in their pockets.
It's how the game is designed and also one of the major reasons I don't like the game. They would've changed it already if they were interested in the system we would like to be in place.
Maybe go one step further and make said bound item be worth the default 22c to vendor making it pointless to need unless you really do. I know the issues here are you cant see the stats of an item that is not identified yet ... that requires more thought
stupid reply
+1 this is the best way to me. keeps down all of the ruckus.
Since everyone "needs" items like crafting materials, it's better manners to roll greed on those.
I didn't realize that the darned pirate hat was equippable by all classes, saw I could wear it and rolled need while still wiping up adds. The entire rest of the party had already greed rolled while I wasn't paying attention, and I felt like a complete dickhead.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
Fixed it
Then you haven't seen a lot of modern MMOs. Most of the ones that've come out in the last few years are soloable to the cap, at least through quest content. (And a few have solo & group versions of their dungeons.)
edit: but yeah, there's absolutely no reason you should be able to roll Need on an item that's class-locked to another class. If you want it for selling, that's Greed.
I've been lucky enough to have gotten reasonable loot rollers in my PUGs thus far, but I've heard the horror stories.
I don't know why people keep mistaking 'working as intended so as to maximise sale of Zen' for 'oversight'. The game is, sadly, intended to be played with everyone grabbing what they can and selling it in the AH. Do you imagine it was an 'oversight' to make everything Bind on Equip.
The loot system is working precisely as designed and intended. The choice players have is to go with that flow or behave against your own interests, unless you are in a group that plays by traditional rules.
serously stupid kid should just focus on helping killing the bosses, but instead have time to type a lot of HAMSTER just to get mad on a piece of gear that I didnt know what did I get?? >:(
Just.... lol
I think it happens to the best of us.
Sometimes out of habit... when I first enter a dungeon, if I don't carefully inspect how people are rolling, I'll need on green items (that I can use) without even thinking, because seriously, in about 85% of the dungeons I've been in, this is how everyone deals with the stuff anyone can equip. They need it.
I mean most of this loot is all unidentified, right? Who really knows if they need an item or not? (*sigh*) So as long as it's not RED and clearly not meant for you, if you can use it, you may as well need it.
(obviously referring to lower level content here)
Right. So when at least one other person is needing on stuff like belts and rings and enhancements, you should do so as well. Unless you want to walk out of the experience with absolutely nothing.
At the beginning of a dungeon it's hard to know what the consensus is, with mobs smacking you in your face: So I've also on occasion been accused of needing when it's assumed that I shouldn't. It's easy enough to just start greeding from that point forward. It's a simple mistake.
This game is so fast paced, mistakes in looting are bound to happen.
I think what drives me the most crazy is when that one person needing on everything, does so, and everyone else greeds on everything... fully recognizing what's happening and refusing to either make a huge fuss about it or need themselves. Sometimes I just greed along with them, feeling like an ******* should I behave like that "one guy" and need on stupid stuff as well.
So we all walk away with nothing. There is no virtuous accomplishment in doing this, in the end.
That is exactly the problem. The way the system works now actively encourages needtards. It rewards the needtard and penalizes the good human being.
All they have to do is disable the 'need' button for equipment that is specific to a class other than yours. That would solve the major issue. And if they wanted extra credit, also disable it for enchants, resources, and equipment that isn't class specific so that everyone is guaranteed to make the same roll choice and no one has to worry about whether or not it's cool to roll need on a belt.
This isn't a Moon shot we're talking about here. The problem is straightforward and so is the solution.
However right now if you roll need you're a ninja scumbag, so I can't, but others w/o morals will.
So... what do?
They seriously need to make ALL loot like delve chests, all private.
Hey, suddenly it's worth running dungeons outside of stupid delves timers.
I agree that is the best option.......the system is not flawed though TBH...it is the greed and lack of MMo values common to many players.....that ruin it
But that's precisely why the system is flawed. You can't make people cool but you can prevent them from being uncool. The system rewards the needtards rather then preventing them from acting in a needtarded manner, therefore it is flawed. A very simple alteration to the existing system would render the inherent uncoolness of the needtard irrelevant.
i can`t help, every group just chose need i played with, without a single word.
but obviously some can`t deal with that, and yes they go wild about it.
and yes i kick them for it
so just make it greed only, so basicly the only option is need then, but crybabies won`t notice it.
I do not spend my MMo time looking at the players and insepcting their gear.......
That way if you cant use but wanna sell then you greed and if no1 else can use and everybody greeds then that's fair enough.
Some games have implemented a Need on Class gear system so if you aint of that class then you can only greed
People should just be a little more considerate, but hey it's 2013 and consideration and good manners are just fluff words put in to fill a space because its expected even though to a growing number of people lack the character to have either of those abilities
Understand that the TR or whatever that is abusing you for needing on those purple daggers u didn't really need has probably done 20 dungeon runs and that's the first time something he/she can actually use has dropped
its just good manners people
No one cares if a rogue rolls need on a rogue item. The problem is the CW rolling need on the TR item, and the GF item, and the GWF item.
Restricting need as described will not "create new issues". It SOLVES the issue. Honestly, it's not rocket science.