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Major Problems I have noticed with Neverwinter PvP
reaper2142
Member Posts: 2 Arc User
As someone who has played League of Legends since the Beta, I'm no stranger to balancing issues. That being said, some parts of Neverwinter PvP make me think that the developers really phoned in the Arena PvP in this game. I'm not sure if these are bugs or features of the game at this point, but I'm going to list some of the discrepancies I have noticed.
-The Control Wizard nearly has more mobility than a rogue. The wizard's teleport only costs a third of a stamina bar instead of half, in addition it is faster and longer ranged than the rogue's dodge ability. Considering that rogues are assassins that rely on mobility and positioning and wizards are designed to sit at the back and spam spells this seems a little counter intuitive.
-Astral Shield. This first came to my attention when I was playing my rogue and the enemy cleric was 1v4 against our entire team and winning. Not only does it make a cleric as tanky as a guardian fighter, but when added to other cleric abilities the cleric becomes a health tank healing for more than he can be damaged. Congratulations Cryptic, you made a Mundo.
-Kills seem to be awarded almost randomly in team fights. I know that getting kills doesn't really do anything but give you slightly more glory, but when a rogue uses shocking execution and one hits someone the kill should go to him and not the cleric who used astral seal.
-The Health Relic/Potions in PvP are a quick way of turning the tide in a duel. No matter if you are on the verge of death you can grab one and turn and win your fight. This encourages players to run away, grab a health potion, and go back to finish the fight. In my own opinion, grabbing a health potion should not instantly mean you will survive. Just like getting on a horse, consistent damage should make you stop receiving the benefits of a potion.
-Horses. Horses should not be included in PvP. While this Pay to Win aspect is not as severe as in other games, buying a uber-rare $30 horse will give you a distinct advantage in PvP. PvP should be about skill, not whether or not your parents let you use their credit card.
All of this being said, I think that Neverwinter PvP has some real potential. A lot of MMO's succeed or fail depending on how good their PvP and endgame content is and as a fan of Neverwinter Nights I hope this game succeeds.
-The Control Wizard nearly has more mobility than a rogue. The wizard's teleport only costs a third of a stamina bar instead of half, in addition it is faster and longer ranged than the rogue's dodge ability. Considering that rogues are assassins that rely on mobility and positioning and wizards are designed to sit at the back and spam spells this seems a little counter intuitive.
-Astral Shield. This first came to my attention when I was playing my rogue and the enemy cleric was 1v4 against our entire team and winning. Not only does it make a cleric as tanky as a guardian fighter, but when added to other cleric abilities the cleric becomes a health tank healing for more than he can be damaged. Congratulations Cryptic, you made a Mundo.
-Kills seem to be awarded almost randomly in team fights. I know that getting kills doesn't really do anything but give you slightly more glory, but when a rogue uses shocking execution and one hits someone the kill should go to him and not the cleric who used astral seal.
-The Health Relic/Potions in PvP are a quick way of turning the tide in a duel. No matter if you are on the verge of death you can grab one and turn and win your fight. This encourages players to run away, grab a health potion, and go back to finish the fight. In my own opinion, grabbing a health potion should not instantly mean you will survive. Just like getting on a horse, consistent damage should make you stop receiving the benefits of a potion.
-Horses. Horses should not be included in PvP. While this Pay to Win aspect is not as severe as in other games, buying a uber-rare $30 horse will give you a distinct advantage in PvP. PvP should be about skill, not whether or not your parents let you use their credit card.
All of this being said, I think that Neverwinter PvP has some real potential. A lot of MMO's succeed or fail depending on how good their PvP and endgame content is and as a fan of Neverwinter Nights I hope this game succeeds.
Post edited by reaper2142 on
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Comments
I agree with all points above. Especially the horses. I think mounts should be disabled in pvp. I kinda agree with the control wizard mobility. I think it would be balanced if other guardian fighters and rogues had a good method of statting to increase stamina regeneration to counter that.
As far as the health relic, Im fine the way it is. Often time, in pvp someone is running towards a health potion. You know straight away since its obvious, you could stop them, or you could let them keep going and get it. Often time I've had people running towards a potion, running and taking hits in hopes to get it, just to find up it isnt there and making thier whole B-line to it wasted and they end up getting killed even faster than if they stayed and fight.
I honestly think Great Weapon fighters needs a touch up. As a rogue, i feel bad killing a Great Weapon Fighter when I'm at half health and still win with a good chunk of my health still. Something just doesnt feel right with thier damage, it feels lacking much more than it should.
I strongly disagree upon this. A mage will typically be in robes while a rogue in much heavier leather armor in D&D giving the mage and not the rogue the expected movement advantage. As a CW in this game rogues are most feared and I can't do much of anything against them unless I am able to outpace them which is absolutely needed just to make the fight at all fair or else I'll most likely be outright slaughtered. The teleport range of a CW isn't that far at all, when trying to run away or escape with it rogues and great weapons fighters always catch me. For a CW to escape with teleport they typically need to teleport in different directions to toss off the pursuer hoping they found something more interesting than you in whatever direction you ported. If anything I favor the CW wizard being able to teleport further than the very small distance they are given. CW aren't designed to sit back, the are designed to kite. If you merely sit back as a CW you will soon be a dead CW when anyone decides to go after you.
Unnecessary. Those aren't real qualifications, why even post them? Familiarity with one game doesn't necessarily translate over to the next. I am going to say this bluntly, I play at 60s and what I write is mainly geared towards 60s. That being said...
Your observations suck; what does nearly really mean? Your ****ty observational powers coupled with your pathetic analytic abilities have neglected to mention how rogue dodge interacts with the numerous 'gap closers' they have at their disposal or the role of stealth in combination with some abilities which allow them to attack for awhile without dropping into visibility. You also don't talk about what the current meta is with the control wizard nor do you even go over how you can justify that 'control wizards are designed to sit in the back and spam spells'.
Furthermore, you don't even mention the qualifications that are most necessary such as what... the **** settings you're playing under. Are you 60? Are you rolling a premade? What sample size have you gone through? At what point does it feel like the control wizard 'nearly' has more mobility than a rogue? At 10-19's ? Maybe 60s? How the **** are we suppose to figure out what you mean?
You're also comparing two very different classes with very different goals. You're also writing off that it takes positional skills for all classes at 60s - that is to say everyone relies on positioning including the wizard who, this might blow your mind away, is not always in the back and some times needs to be in front depending on the situation.
The rest of your post is pretty much the equivalent of 'whatever' as you're really focused not on the core of PvP but rather one aspect and possibly a bug. You don't discuss the importance of area control (hint: this has to do with your 'observations' about the health relic) nor do you really know that you can win a match of Domination without so much as getting a single kill (pro-tip: you win by victory points or whatever you want to call them).
When you say **** like PvP should be about skill you need to define what skill is or rather what specific part you're aiming for. Individual skill? Group skill?
Seriously, why don't you think like Morello or something or Xeph or any of the major names if you're going to bring up LoL? HAMSTER.
- CW has that many dodges because they have ****ty survivability (other than their cc).
- you couldn't 1v4 a cleric standing on astral shield? what the ****. were you just sitting there left-clicking them the entire time? this doesn't have anything to do with clerics being "OP"; you just suck HAMSTER, sorry.
- kills are awarded to the person that does the last source of damage in the fight. forgemaster's flame, break the spirit and brand of the sun are popular cleric tools in PVP.
- this is the only way for 4/5 classes to heal-up outside of battle, unless you have a cleric or use the ****ty PVP health potions. plus, you shouldn't even be fighting close enough for someone to run away and get the potion; you should be fighting near the points. if they're just running, kill them.
- mounts mean almost nothing.
1. The kill should be awarded to the player that caused the most damage to the dying player, instead of the player that got the last hit.
2. Crowd control effects need diminishing returns.
3. Remove the "I win/HP" pots. (or at least nerf the speed at which they heal)
4. Make control wizard's dodge ability (teleport) use half stamina, like every one else. (They are already the "King of Control", they don't need the extra mobility.)
I might not quite agreee with your other thoughts because after using anything the CW`s become slow walking for a while and the clerics could be easily stopped with any kind of croud control. You can kill them easy with 2 guys (actualy I usualy burst the clerics alone quite easy).
But anyway man you couldn`t be more right about the horses. If you think about it w/o them the pvp will become way more interesting. First the GWF`s will become more viable for capturing points
I realy hope the guys who can actualy make this change happen see your post and give it a thought. Don`t think people will start buying mounts less just becase the PVP will be more balanced.
One thing puzzles me though. Anybody else notice how when you are in the earlier or higher levels (ex. in level 19 bracket you are either 10 or 19), regardless of gear you deal so much damage and when you reach the middle levels (13-17) you deal very little. I tested this a lot of times. Maybe there is an explanation?
There is a thread buried somewhere here that explains it. It has to do with the scaling and how they scale you when you enter a Domination match. It's probably not intended.
EDIT - by far the biggest problem isn't even mentioned: AFK'ers
Sorry not the most squishy. In fact I've seen CW's (alone on the field) withstand an onslaught from multiple dps long enough for their pals to rez and pivot the game.
In my experience I have found CW's are tougher than both rogues and clerics. Very peculiar that.
True this. Afk'ers and pvp farmers are still pulling their old tricks. Legitimate pvp players are still being kicked from pvp teams because they are NOT bots or farmers.
PLEASE, make all pvp gear BOP. Only pvpers should be able to earn pvp gear and wear it.
All kinds of players run through the healing pots without regard for whether they can use it or not. This has to do with poor design, not mounts. People on foot can do this too. Suggest pots be placed in alcoves out of the line of travel.
When it comes down to the last 100 points I definitely want the guy on the fastest mount to run to an off-base and turn the pylon. It doesn't have to be me but you bet your panties I'll do it if that's what my team needs. It's silly to ban mounts so that we all have to play at the level of F2P players--regardless of their age. My husband and I invest in our passion because we love pvp and YES SIR, we do every legitimate thing we can do to maximize the chance of our team winning. Sometimes we are at the top of the scorecard and sometimes we are on the bottom; most of the time we are somewhere in the middle. No one wins the blue every game.
1. GWF cant go CC immune at will, it's resource based and lasts some 3-5 seconds, if you are looking for on demand cc break + immunity try TRs impossible to catch.
2. CWs counter CC is the dodge. most vunerable to CC would be the GWF or cleric (not sure).
a good CW will avoid 90% of CC.
I don't even think CWs need a nerf, but then i can see pvp without an overwhelming bias.
Hedas 60 GWF.
Hrod 60 GF.
Alain Loreweaver 60 CW.
Dragon.
Can't agree with that. Astral Shield heals much only if you stand in it and you can still outdps the heal, dmg reduction is 20% so it won't make cleric anything close to a tank. 1v4 scenario is possible only if its 1 T2 vs 4 green players who don't think CC skills are useful for PvP. If both players are equally geared and you can't get cleric down, lock his abilities or knock him away from AS, GF or CW can do this infinitely
And it does. Your execution could have left opponents at last few HPs, then cleric DoT or at will could finish it off.
Its not a dueling game. Its not meant to be fair, thats the point of PvP pot, they are extremely cheap, got 2 min cooldown? And there is absolutely NO reason why someone going into PvP would NOT have them.
About the map spawned health potions-congratulation, you've just discovered the use of them, thats EXACTLY what they are supposed to do.
Same deal as green vs purple player. And don't tell me its 30$, you can easily make 2k Zen for blue one or 3k for purple one using AH, the only ones at disadvantage here are the 24k RAD grinders, have fun getting anywhere in the game as one. Mounts do give considerable advantage, but they aren't "wallet only drop", they are convenience, you can either farm them depending on how well you play AH or use money to get one instantly(they are account wide, so its one time pay for every char on acc mount).
Typical Rogue qq'ing. So, you already hit harder than any class in game with the only daily capable of 1 shotting any class at any level, even epic geared ones. You have stealth, can lock CWs or any class out of their abilities while taking half their life bar in the process. You have multiple escape abilities to boot and more armor and survivability than any CW....BUT, that isn't good enough is it? No you want to take away CW mobility what so you can kill us faster!? BS!!! Every mmo that comes the Rogue playing crowd is never satisfied until they can beat anyone at anytime. There are already Guardians complaining about Rogue damage so it isn't hard to see how quick one can take a CW out. It's only because of our ability to teleport 3 times in a row that gives us an even slight chance of surviving a Rogue attack and THAT is your real issue isn't it? God forbid a CW actually have an opportunity to stop you from killing us in 1/4 of a second rather than maybe 5. GTFO!
HAHAHHAHHAHA
Hate to be a a jerk but this is **** perspective at its finiest..
1) you can let them burn stamina then hit them stealth or w/e u want, you can easily get pass this unless you are manmode an just try to run straight at a person an get kited down... why would u make a ranged class that can be easily chased down.. that makes no sense...
2)Astral Very strong when its double stacked thats needs nerf on the stacking BUTTTTT 1v1 the idea is to knock them out of it or wait till it deminishes then silence an nuke thats how you suppose to play a TR.........
3)Kills go to the last person to damage the person assists go to nearby players or if u hit that target.
4) Potions- If you see someone get the potion wait till it wears off then fight, or if they low try to nuke them b4 they get to much back its all stratgie an that is what makes pvp... good pvp. or cc them an get it yourself it's what ever you have options to pervent it so think about it..
5) HORSES omg just save AD an buy one from market its not hard there are mounts being sold constantly there, EG i saved up my AD transfered to Zen an Bought the Armoured Bear. There are plenty ways to make the AD you just have to figure out how you want to make it.
6) Only thing i think needs change is Rogue Dalie ignores armor.. so it can 1 hit a GF im 14k tank.. nothing should insantly kill me unless its multi dalies.. seeing a 45k damage fly off your screen tho you know its GG
From #1 Guild Pve/Pvp [ Lemonade Stand ]
Yes, lets do that.. Let's just screw over all the healers. Maybe, we (the healers) can enter a room full with HAMSTER and just bend over and get a long hard f***ing.. That would be so nice!
Last hit = Kill is a great glory gain balance. If it would be the way you suggest that would mean that clerics would stand a slim to none chance of ever getting that extra point. THe way I see it, this suggestion isnt towards a more balanced and fun for all game but more so a "look at me, my name is on the screen, therefore I am the best".
Hedas 60 GWF.
Hrod 60 GF.
Alain Loreweaver 60 CW.
Dragon.
In most cases it depends on what gear they are rocking, that goes for any class. Classes rolling their PVP gear have high defense and an absolute crapton more HP than if they are wearing any other type of gear. While offensive stats on gear at top end changes very little even when stacked ALOT (There is a youtube video where a guy did a spreadsheet on the values and DR of offensive stats, and they all pretty much have low value overall and steep DR once threshold is reached) things like additive HP, regen, defense and deflection make quite a noticeable difference.
You are either lying or incredibly bad. I'm going with lying since even auto-attacking a cleric 4v1 would kill them easily.
First of all , any good CW , can kite a rogue all day , if they catch the rogue at range he is dead in few secounds. Yes rogues one daily does great damage , but it takes for ever to charge. I get 1 maybe 2 off per match, AND YOU CAN DODGE IT with its long animantion.
In pug 5 vs 5 count the number of CW , what team has the most wins. CW do to much damage for the amount of movement + CC they have. A well played CW has WAAAAAAAAAY more impact on a point of control fight then a rogue. If they had damage meters you would see CW WTF owning the charts.
CW only whine, because once in a while a rogue kills them , other than that they would be GODS, and are **** close to it now.
As a CW, I'll give up one teleport if everyone wears cloth armor.
We'll going to equalize attack range as well to match yours?
No reason to do PvP if I don't get any glory.
Fix the **** reward system before you do anything else