whether or not real money transactions should been included in an open beta release, is debatable, but it concurs with the ethic of a beta release, in that these systems NEED to be tested for bugs. You lot should be grateful that it has occurred in Beta and NOT the end product.
There's a reason banks have servers that host test transactions that don't involve real money. The reason for that is so you can test these systems without using real money.
If you're using real money, you're not testing.
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ussultimatumMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I just gave you three reputable sources each with an official definition.
Show me just one reputable source that says character wipe is inherently fundamental for a software to be deemed in beta version and without such is no longer considered beta.
Enlighten us to exactly what changes take place when the game goes from open beta to final?
Are there no more patches?
Are there no more feedback and bug reporting features?
Are there no more content releases?
Are subscriptions put in place?
etc.
What exactly is going to change from this state to the next?
NOT TO MENTION THAT YOU MUST HAVE JUST GLOSSED OVER THE MULTIPLE PHRASES OF "POTENTIAL CUSTOMERS." i.e, not CURRENT CUSTOMERS!
Wikipedia "They are usually customers or prospective customers of the organization that develops the software"
It is you who glossed over. Also I would like to point out what usually means. It does not mean always, a certainty, or any other world that would not refer to a possibility or in most instances.
Enlighten us to exactly what changes take place when the game goes from open beta to final?
Are there no more patches?
Are there no more feedback and bug reporting features?
Are there no more content releases?
Are subscriptions put in place?
etc.
What exactly is going to change from this state to the next?
NOTHING!
Still waiting on that definition of beta you all are referring to.
Still waiting on that definition of beta you all are referring to.
I've posted two link to pages of people in the MMO industry specifically, both calling out what Cryptic is doing.
It's a soft launch. Which makes it a launch, no matter what excuses a shill company like PWE tries to hide behind. If this was an actual beta, they'd wipe the servers...why...because it is a beta, and to everyone that has been doing this for more than a year or two knows what PWE is doing.
I've posted two link to pages of people in the MMO industry specifically, both calling out what Cryptic is doing.
It's a soft launch. Which makes it a launch, no matter what excuses a shill company like PWE tries to hide behind. If this was an actual beta, they'd wipe the servers...why...because it is a beta, and to everyone that has been doing this for more than a year or two knows what PWE is doing.
It is a soft launch. The software is also in beta form. Beta is only a defining term of what stage the software is in. You can believe it means something else but it doesn't change anything until you can provide me with an official definition of beta that states all these provisions you call for.
Beta only refers to what state the game is in. If you believed beta meant something else or was inclusive of other things. That was your misunderstanding of what beta software means.
Still waiting on that definition of beta you all are referring to.
Release:
Release to manufacturing (RTM)
"The term does not define the delivery mechanism or volume; it only states that the quality is sufficient for mass distribution."
Neverwinter is being distributed in mass even tho it's unlikely it will ever be in a retail store.
General availability (GA)
"General availability (GA) is the a marketing stage at which all necessary commercialization activities have been completed and a software product is available for purchase, depending, however, on language, region, electronic vs. media availability.[8] Commercialization activities could include security and compliance tests, as well as localization and world wide availability. The time between RTM and GA can be from a week to months in some cases before a generally available release can be declared because of the time needed to complete all commercialization activities required by GA. At this stage, the software has "gone live"."
Neverwinter services are available for purchase in the form of a cash shop and is available worldwide.
Release to web
"Release to web or web release is a means of software delivery that utilizes the Internet for distribution. No physical media are produced in this type of release mechanism by the manufacturer. Web releases became more common as Internet usage grew."
Neverwinter is being distributed via Internet download.
So there ya go. Neverwinter has been released and has gone live.
It is a soft launch. The software is also in beta form. Beta is only a defining term of what stage the software is in. You can believe it means something else but it doesn't change anything until you can provide me with an official definition of beta that states all these provisions you call for.
Beta only refers to what state the game is in. If you believed beta meant something else or was inclusive of other things. That was your misunderstanding of what beta software means.
That is true. But "test" means something else. It means that it is not the real thing yet. But in this case every single aspect is identical to the supposed end of beta (I say supposed because some games stay in beta forever). If everything is equal then they are the same thing, regardless of what the creator decides to call them.
So there ya go. Neverwinter has been released and has gone live.
You are correct Neverwinter has been release and gone live in beta form. No where in there does it state this is the official release and despite the Website saying beta all over the place and the numerous definitions of beta I have provided you still choose to believe otherwise.
You only have yourself to blame. You convinced yourself this game was anything other then what it claimed.
You are correct Neverwinter has been release and gone live in beta form. No where in there does it state this is the official release and despite the Website saying beta all over the place and the numerous definitions of beta I have provided you still choose to believe otherwise.
You only have yourself to blame. You convinced yourself this game was anything other then what it claimed.
I did no such thing. I knew exactly what it was when I installed it: a perpetual beta launch which is exactly what every other fracking final release launch is...
I only have a problem with people who are trying to make a distinction between a perpetual beta and a final release launch when there are no actual distinctions whatsoever.
This is exemplified in the fact that you can't list any fracking changes from this stage to the supposedly next stage. Because, there aren't any...other than the labeling.
That is true. But "test" means something else. It means that it is not the real thing yet. But in this case every single aspect is identical to the supposed end of beta (I say supposed because some games stay in beta forever). If everything is equal then they are the same thing, regardless of what the creator decides to call them.
Not true. In fact there will most likely be quite a few changes before going live. Have you played beta before? Do you recall game that wasn't nearly identical in release absent of major flaws and software conflicts? Look if you think somehow a cash shop changes what stage a software is in. It doesn't. The two are separate entities. One is a way of making money. The other describes where the game is in development.
If you somehow felt a cash shop automatically made software go out of beta stage, it didn't. It still is in beta.
It is a soft launch. The software is also in beta form. Beta is only a defining term of what stage the software is in. You can believe it means something else but it doesn't change anything until you can provide me with an official definition of beta that states all these provisions you call for.
Beta only refers to what state the game is in. If you believed beta meant something else or was inclusive of other things. That was your misunderstanding of what beta software means.
There isnt an official definition of a "beta"
But to anyone who is ...'in the business" or has even just followed gaming for more than a year or two, it's marketing taking advantage of technical terms to mislead customers.
At the very least, if you want to insist this is a beta, then the professional, ethical thing to do would be to wipe the database when you know for a fact that it has been contaminated.
I did no such thing. I knew exactly what it was when I installed it: a perpetual beta launch which is exactly what every other fracking final release launch is...
I only have a problem with people who are trying to make a distinction between a perpetual beta and a final release launch when there are no actual distinctions whatsoever.
This is exemplified in the fact that you can't list any fracking changes from this stage to the supposedly next stage. Because, there aren't any...other than the labeling.
Not true. In fact there will most likely be quite a few changes before going live. Have you played beta before? Do you recall game that wasn't nearly identical in release absent of major flaws and software conflicts? Look if you think somehow a cash shop changes what stage a software is in. It doesn't. The two are separate entities. One is a way of making money. The other describes where the game is in development.
If you somehow felt a cash shop automatically made software go out of beta stage, it didn't. It still is in beta.
So then what exactly makes it go out of the beta stage and how is the final different than the current?
I gave you 3 reputable sources with a definition of beta. If you choose to believe beta means something else outside of those definitions thats on you. In fact if you are so sure of yourself. Log into Wikipedia and change the definition to your liking. I would love to see how long that lasts.
Two weeks...so far.
I've been in MWO "open beta" for months now and you'll be in open beta with neverwinter for months as well. That's the new standard thanks to sheeple like yourself who don't ever question the bonds being placed on them. Consumer rights trump business rights. This was already an industry where consumers had little to no rights and you all are giving the rest away because you can't pass a duck test.
Duck test:
If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck.
I gave you 3 reputable sources with a definition of beta. If you choose to believe beta means something else outside of those definitions thats on you. In fact if you are so sure of yourself. Log into Wikipedia and change the definition to your liking. I would love to see how long that lasts.
I can stamp "genius" on your forehead but that doesn't mean you are one.
Two weeks...so far.
I've been in MWO "open beta" for months now and you'll be in open beta with neverwinter for months as well. That's the new standard thanks to sheeple like yourself who don't ever question the bonds being placed on them. Consumer rights trump business rights. This was already an industry where consumers had little to no rights and you all are giving the rest away because you can't pass a duck test.
Duck test:
If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck.
If it takes months it takes months. Only a companies resources and talent will determine that.
If it takes months I can also choose to go somewhere else. Which is my right.
But I won't tell a company their software isn't in beta form, when it so clearly has beta issues.
An example is Vanguard which went to official launch 2 weeks after beta. It clearly was not ready nor should have been called an official launch. The servers were down constantly in fact much more than this game is after official release.
Now that was a game that was still in beta form but claimed to be otherwise.
You may not be happy with their marketing in beta. That is your right. But to call this Turkey Vulture a Duck is an insult to Ducks.
I gave you 3 reputable sources with a definition of beta. If you choose to believe beta means something else outside of those definitions thats on you. In fact if you are so sure of yourself. Log into Wikipedia and change the definition to your liking. I would love to see how long that lasts.
*chuckles* Not even my kids high school teacher lets them use Wikipedia for a source.
Go tell those two guys in the articles that they dont know what they are talking about....go tell the lead editor of MMORPG.com he doenst a beta from a launch... Have fun with that.
*chuckles* Not even my kids high school teacher lets them use Wikipedia for a source.
Go tell those two guys in the articles that they dont know what they are talking about....go tell the lead editor of MMORPG.com he doenst a beta from a launch... Have fun with that.
Gladly. And while you're so confident on what beta means. Ask that lead editor to draft and post a definition of beta to your liking.
Gladly. And while you're so confident on what beta means. Ask that lead editor to draft and post a definition of beta to your liking.
I dont have to. It's called experience.
What you are doing is called semantics.
The only thing in this thread I am unsure of, is your motivation. Just an innocent rabid fanboi...which I can forgive, been doing that for over a decade....or you're a paid employee forum warrior.
I'm curious. Especially from the 'developers' in this thread.
Can Anyone name another MMO that did not do a full wipe between Beta and full release ? That for me is the main thing.
If there is no wipe, what your saying is any mistakes that have been made before release that have a long term effect on the game are acceptable. Do you really feel that way ?
Planetside 2
Star Conflict
Tribes Ascend
just off top of my head, i was in beta for all them recently, i know they not the only ones that have all included paid for content during final beta stage, and have not had wipes on release date, i pretty sure they have been many others lately.
The only thing in this thread I am unsure of, is your motivation. Just an innocent rabid fanboi...which I can forgive, been doing that for over a decade....or you're a paid employee forum warrior.
You may not be a big fan of semantics. I like semantics. Semantics are what keeps the language from becoming random.
For instance. Beta now means if you have a cash shop you are now an official launch with numerous bugs. A cash shop immediately move the software phase of development into stable platform enviroment.
You can be upset over marketing practices and you may even call me names if you like. But semantics are why we call this a MMO and not a purple giraffe walking motionlessly on a sandy hamburger.
Voice your displeasure all you like. It will never change the fact of what stage this software is.
Comments
There's a reason banks have servers that host test transactions that don't involve real money. The reason for that is so you can test these systems without using real money.
If you're using real money, you're not testing.
That's all well and good, but there is a virtual goods store that is completely live.
There is an in game auction house tied to RMT.
There are already promotional items being sold, including chance based "lotto" boxes.
I didn't see any of that covered under the definitions you've provided.
Enlighten us to exactly what changes take place when the game goes from open beta to final?
Are there no more patches?
Are there no more feedback and bug reporting features?
Are there no more content releases?
Are subscriptions put in place?
etc.
What exactly is going to change from this state to the next?
NOTHING!
Because, those go hand in hand with launches...and not open betas.
Wikipedia "They are usually customers or prospective customers of the organization that develops the software"
It is you who glossed over. Also I would like to point out what usually means. It does not mean always, a certainty, or any other world that would not refer to a possibility or in most instances.
Still waiting on that definition of beta you all are referring to.
Your exactly right. Never let facts get in the way of an argument.
It's a soft launch. Which makes it a launch, no matter what excuses a shill company like PWE tries to hide behind. If this was an actual beta, they'd wipe the servers...why...because it is a beta, and to everyone that has been doing this for more than a year or two knows what PWE is doing.
It is a soft launch. The software is also in beta form. Beta is only a defining term of what stage the software is in. You can believe it means something else but it doesn't change anything until you can provide me with an official definition of beta that states all these provisions you call for.
Beta only refers to what state the game is in. If you believed beta meant something else or was inclusive of other things. That was your misunderstanding of what beta software means.
Release to manufacturing (RTM)
"The term does not define the delivery mechanism or volume; it only states that the quality is sufficient for mass distribution."
Neverwinter is being distributed in mass even tho it's unlikely it will ever be in a retail store.
General availability (GA)
"General availability (GA) is the a marketing stage at which all necessary commercialization activities have been completed and a software product is available for purchase, depending, however, on language, region, electronic vs. media availability.[8] Commercialization activities could include security and compliance tests, as well as localization and world wide availability. The time between RTM and GA can be from a week to months in some cases before a generally available release can be declared because of the time needed to complete all commercialization activities required by GA. At this stage, the software has "gone live"."
Neverwinter services are available for purchase in the form of a cash shop and is available worldwide.
Release to web
"Release to web or web release is a means of software delivery that utilizes the Internet for distribution. No physical media are produced in this type of release mechanism by the manufacturer. Web releases became more common as Internet usage grew."
Neverwinter is being distributed via Internet download.
So there ya go. Neverwinter has been released and has gone live.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_release_life_cycle
That is true. But "test" means something else. It means that it is not the real thing yet. But in this case every single aspect is identical to the supposed end of beta (I say supposed because some games stay in beta forever). If everything is equal then they are the same thing, regardless of what the creator decides to call them.
You are correct Neverwinter has been release and gone live in beta form. No where in there does it state this is the official release and despite the Website saying beta all over the place and the numerous definitions of beta I have provided you still choose to believe otherwise.
You only have yourself to blame. You convinced yourself this game was anything other then what it claimed.
I did no such thing. I knew exactly what it was when I installed it: a perpetual beta launch which is exactly what every other fracking final release launch is...
I only have a problem with people who are trying to make a distinction between a perpetual beta and a final release launch when there are no actual distinctions whatsoever.
This is exemplified in the fact that you can't list any fracking changes from this stage to the supposedly next stage. Because, there aren't any...other than the labeling.
Not true. In fact there will most likely be quite a few changes before going live. Have you played beta before? Do you recall game that wasn't nearly identical in release absent of major flaws and software conflicts? Look if you think somehow a cash shop changes what stage a software is in. It doesn't. The two are separate entities. One is a way of making money. The other describes where the game is in development.
If you somehow felt a cash shop automatically made software go out of beta stage, it didn't. It still is in beta.
There isnt an official definition of a "beta"
But to anyone who is ...'in the business" or has even just followed gaming for more than a year or two, it's marketing taking advantage of technical terms to mislead customers.
At the very least, if you want to insist this is a beta, then the professional, ethical thing to do would be to wipe the database when you know for a fact that it has been contaminated.
Any way you slice it...PWE is a scummy company.
Two weeks is hardly perpetual.
So then what exactly makes it go out of the beta stage and how is the final different than the current?
I gave you 3 reputable sources with a definition of beta. If you choose to believe beta means something else outside of those definitions thats on you. In fact if you are so sure of yourself. Log into Wikipedia and change the definition to your liking. I would love to see how long that lasts.
Two weeks...so far.
I've been in MWO "open beta" for months now and you'll be in open beta with neverwinter for months as well. That's the new standard thanks to sheeple like yourself who don't ever question the bonds being placed on them. Consumer rights trump business rights. This was already an industry where consumers had little to no rights and you all are giving the rest away because you can't pass a duck test.
Duck test:
If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck.
I can stamp "genius" on your forehead but that doesn't mean you are one.
If it takes months it takes months. Only a companies resources and talent will determine that.
If it takes months I can also choose to go somewhere else. Which is my right.
But I won't tell a company their software isn't in beta form, when it so clearly has beta issues.
An example is Vanguard which went to official launch 2 weeks after beta. It clearly was not ready nor should have been called an official launch. The servers were down constantly in fact much more than this game is after official release.
Now that was a game that was still in beta form but claimed to be otherwise.
You may not be happy with their marketing in beta. That is your right. But to call this Turkey Vulture a Duck is an insult to Ducks.
*chuckles* Not even my kids high school teacher lets them use Wikipedia for a source.
Go tell those two guys in the articles that they dont know what they are talking about....go tell the lead editor of MMORPG.com he doenst a beta from a launch... Have fun with that.
Gladly. And while you're so confident on what beta means. Ask that lead editor to draft and post a definition of beta to your liking.
I dont have to. It's called experience.
What you are doing is called semantics.
The only thing in this thread I am unsure of, is your motivation. Just an innocent rabid fanboi...which I can forgive, been doing that for over a decade....or you're a paid employee forum warrior.
Planetside 2
Star Conflict
Tribes Ascend
just off top of my head, i was in beta for all them recently, i know they not the only ones that have all included paid for content during final beta stage, and have not had wipes on release date, i pretty sure they have been many others lately.
You may not be a big fan of semantics. I like semantics. Semantics are what keeps the language from becoming random.
For instance. Beta now means if you have a cash shop you are now an official launch with numerous bugs. A cash shop immediately move the software phase of development into stable platform enviroment.
You can be upset over marketing practices and you may even call me names if you like. But semantics are why we call this a MMO and not a purple giraffe walking motionlessly on a sandy hamburger.
Voice your displeasure all you like. It will never change the fact of what stage this software is.