gruntpyreMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
One person, doing this exploit for an hour on any server could be enough to ruin the entire economy forever. Ask yourselves if that's even reparable, just one person doing this exploit for an hour. Seriously. Think through the consequences of that much AD being injected into the economy.
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switchblaydeMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
But guess what.... when you wake up tomorrow morning the world will still be here, there won't be a zombie plague and there will still be starving kids in Africa. It's a friggen game. Put things into perspective people.
The economy is interconnected for all players. The rollback is part of a good idea, not a complete good idea. The only way to fix the ruined economy is to completely wipe the servers and start over, refunding players the zen/packs they purchased, potentially keeping naked characters at their appropriate level.
Let me ask you a question: How can you be certain that the time period selected by PWE is the appropriate time period to root out the hyper-inflation and economic ruin that happened, and not merely an approximated arbitrary value?
Better yet, how do you know that the exploit did not exist before the time period selected as the cutoff? Do you really believe the exploit just sprang into being at that particular point in time?
Why would i need to know if it did or did not excist? It didn't majorly affect the economy. Zen to AD was 1-380ish. Seems ok to me.
If it was around than at most for a small group of people.
Now lets turn it around. Did you sense there was a exploit around affecting the economy before yesterday when all hell broke lose? Did you consider there being a economy that would devalue your purchase when you made it? I'm guessing no otherwise you would not have made the purchase.
So i guess we can conclude there was no major impact on the economy before yesterday? I'm guessing PWE made the right call in that case rolling back the timespan there doing now. But only time will tell.
People were posting on their mule accounts that did not get banned saying that they had been doing this for a a couple of weeks now... And i am sure no one would lie and risk getting their accounts banned to say something happened that did not
"People were saying" is not evidence. Yes, people would and do lie, because accounts in Neverwinter are free. You can make 50 of them and post stuff that I make up. I could go ahead and change my IP address for every post I make and claim all sort of things, and it wouldn't make them true.
What you CAN go by is what you actually know and see, e.g. that the AD/Z exchange rate has been decreasing steadily, which is evidence that there had been no exploit going on or, at least, that it was so limited that it did not affect the economy negatively. 360:1 was *better* than I expected it to be after only 2-3 weeks. It would not have gone so low so fast if people had exploiting this bug to a meaningful degree. (And they leave the exchange and AH disabled, which implies they are using the time to track whether these claims are true, so no more damage can be done in the meantime.)
As I said, if I had any concerns about my investment, I would want a refund for the tens of thousands of Zen I bought. Everyone needs to decide that for themselves, though, and whatever they decide for themselves is perfectly fine.
lewissl1001Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 4Arc User
edited May 2013
I'm surprised by the amount of people spending their money in Beta, Personally I have kept well away from the market until the game is in release. By release i mean they remove Beta from the title, yes it does make a difference
I see posts about people who have spent $800....on a game still in beta (open beta)...well sadly that's your own fault for spanking that much money on a game that is obviously not finished.
Its not a bad game by any stretch but i would recommend holding off vast amounts of money , common sense really?
But guess what.... when you wake up tomorrow morning the world will still be here, there won't be a zombie plague and there will still be starving kids in Africa. It's a friggen game. Put things into perspective people.
This is irrelevant; at best a red herring. Do you imagine this is somehow a clever counterpoint?
Yes, its a friggen game. A game with real life money being spent, premised on the expectation of receiving fair value. An expectation that was ruined by exploits, and value not restored due to a solution that is not a solution.
Whether there is a zombie apocalypse, or a starving kid in Africa commercial is irrelevant to the issue existing at this time within Neverwinter.
One person, doing this exploit for an hour on any server could be enough to ruin the entire economy forever. Ask yourselves if that's even reparable, just one person doing this exploit for an hour. Seriously. Think through the consequences of that much AD being injected into the economy.
It's reparable seeing as how the game is only in Beta, which is the point to catch things like this before the release.
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switchblaydeMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
This is irrelevant; at best a red herring. Do you imagine this is somehow a clever counterpoint?
Yes, its a friggen game. A game with real life money being spent, premised on the expectation of receiving fair value. An expectation that was ruined by exploits, and value not restored due to a solution that is not a solution.
Whether there is a zombie apocalypse, or a starving kid in Africa commercial is irrelevant to the issue existing at this time within Neverwinter.
No........
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someguyasdfMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 1Arc User
I'm surprised by the amount of people spending their money in Beta, Personally I have kept well away from the market until the game is in release. By release i mean they remove Beta from the title, yes it does make a difference
I see posts about people who have spent $800....on a game still in beta (open beta)...well sadly that's your own fault for spanking that much money on a game that is obviously not finished.
Its not a bad game by any stretch but i would recommend holding off vast amounts of money , common sense really?
This game will forever be in "beta"
You don't have a cash shop in a beta test, look at Planetside 2, during beta even open beta the cash shop wasn't accessible and they said that all characters would be wiped when the game officially launched.
PWE allowed you to use the cash shop and has said that they weren't going to wipe characters, call it beta all you want, they launched the game.
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gruntpyreMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Why would i need to know if it did or did not excist? It didn't majorly affect the economy. Zen to AD was 1-380ish. Seems ok to me.
If it was around than at most for a small group of people.
Now lets turn it around. Did you sense there was a exploit around affecting the economy before yesterday when all hell broke lose? Did you consider there being a economy that would devalue your purchase when you made it? I'm guessing no otherwise you would not have made the purchase.
So i guess we can conclude there was no major impact on the economy before yesterday? I'm guessing PWE made the right call in that case rolling back the timespan there doing now. But only time will tell.
Yes, I did sense this. I, like many others I'm certain, noted that the item price value of certain t1/t2 set pieces was disproportional to the time investment required (turns out certain players were repeat farming set pieces in certain instances from a boss, doing hundreds of runs per day, dropping the values of these items, and causing a huge influx in gold due to gold vendoring), and the prices of certain t1/t2 pieces to rise (due to these players having more AD to spend on items and being willing to outbid other players.
Another exploit, which you can read about on the front page, involved Guardians and CWs either one-shotting bosses, or hitting for hundreds of thousands/millions of damage due to exploitable bugs in-game, allowing them to solo-farm or trivialize content (leading to influx in AD/items/ruining the economy). These are already confirmed by PWE prior to the exploit yesterday. Again, you can read about it. Its why accounts were perma-banned prior to this issue.
Also, if you don't think bugs/exploits still exist, join a Lair of the Spider Queen / Pirate King / Lair of the Mad Dragon (or any other heroic instance) and watch the solutions your group proposes for *ahem* creative usage of mechanics to bug out or exploit pull certain bosses, to skip content, etc.
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gruntpyreMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Yes, I did sense this. I, like many others I'm certain, noted that the item price value of certain t1/t2 set pieces was disproportional to the time investment required (turns out certain players were repeat farming set pieces in certain instances from a boss, doing hundreds of runs per day, dropping the values of these items, and causing a huge influx in gold due to gold vendoring), and the prices of certain t1/t2 pieces to rise (due to these players having more AD to spend on items and being willing to outbid other players.
Another exploit, which you can read about on the front page, involved Guardians and CWs either one-shotting bosses, or hitting for hundreds of thousands/millions of damage due to exploitable bugs in-game, allowing them to solo-farm or trivialize content (leading to influx in AD/items/ruining the economy). These are already confirmed by PWE prior to the exploit yesterday. Again, you can read about it. Its why accounts were perma-banned prior to this issue.
So knowing this. Why did you spend money on the game?
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gruntpyreMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
So knowing this. Why did you spend money on the game?
These observations occurred post-zen purchase, and are the reason I've not spent money on zen since. Any other questions since you have nothing to say about my actual post other than trying to score some cheap point when I've pointed out tons of examples of the economy being irreparably ruined due to exploits?
I never did, and good for those who also didn't. I'll just wait until they announce that the game is released.
Same. If I'm even still playing. Their multiple daily completion for AD, no tomes still, need/greed loot system, & healing aggro debacle is wearing extremely thin.
This exploit and their handling of it doesn't even really bother me much compared to those concerns. I can live with this. The others I won't be for much longer.
These observations occurred post-zen purchase, and are the reason I've not spent money on zen since. Any other questions since you have nothing to say about my actual post other than trying to score some cheap point when I've pointed out tons of examples of the economy being irreparably ruined due to exploits?
Well than you're in your right to complain.
The exploits of bosses and getting cheap loot from them has indeed been known for longer. I'm against a entire reset tho as you suggested since this will affect a lot of people not doing anything wrong and just wanting to play a game for fun. If anything they should have made the beta so you'll have a reset before going live. I'm afraid the potential money making period in a beta which does not have a reset at the end made PWE go blind.
I still believe a lot of reactions are out of line and downright stupid. That has nothing to do with you tho.
lmao this was an inevitable rage thread. if they did a wipe: "i'll never buy zen again!" if they did not wipe: "PWE is not getting another dime from me!" this was a rock and a hard place situation for them. was it the right thing to do? won't know till i find how they actually fixed the exploits. what i do know blind rage serves no purpose.
So in your world your time is a worthless asset? I have a job for you then, but don't worry about getting paid since it is only gonna take up your time.
Epic. Bravo
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hiroprotagonistsMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 20Arc User
Please.. if you feel like this, PLEASE do a charge back, get rid of urself out of this community
I personaly see this as a major step forward for PWE, believe me.. they are better then frickin blizzard in this regard
Though i do agree with some points so ill stop there before i get to ranty about it
Comments
Why would i need to know if it did or did not excist? It didn't majorly affect the economy. Zen to AD was 1-380ish. Seems ok to me.
If it was around than at most for a small group of people.
Now lets turn it around. Did you sense there was a exploit around affecting the economy before yesterday when all hell broke lose? Did you consider there being a economy that would devalue your purchase when you made it? I'm guessing no otherwise you would not have made the purchase.
So i guess we can conclude there was no major impact on the economy before yesterday? I'm guessing PWE made the right call in that case rolling back the timespan there doing now. But only time will tell.
"People were saying" is not evidence. Yes, people would and do lie, because accounts in Neverwinter are free. You can make 50 of them and post stuff that I make up. I could go ahead and change my IP address for every post I make and claim all sort of things, and it wouldn't make them true.
What you CAN go by is what you actually know and see, e.g. that the AD/Z exchange rate has been decreasing steadily, which is evidence that there had been no exploit going on or, at least, that it was so limited that it did not affect the economy negatively. 360:1 was *better* than I expected it to be after only 2-3 weeks. It would not have gone so low so fast if people had exploiting this bug to a meaningful degree. (And they leave the exchange and AH disabled, which implies they are using the time to track whether these claims are true, so no more damage can be done in the meantime.)
As I said, if I had any concerns about my investment, I would want a refund for the tens of thousands of Zen I bought. Everyone needs to decide that for themselves, though, and whatever they decide for themselves is perfectly fine.
I see posts about people who have spent $800....on a game still in beta (open beta)...well sadly that's your own fault for spanking that much money on a game that is obviously not finished.
Its not a bad game by any stretch but i would recommend holding off vast amounts of money , common sense really?
If you didn't then you probably wouldn't be posting this here.
This is irrelevant; at best a red herring. Do you imagine this is somehow a clever counterpoint?
Yes, its a friggen game. A game with real life money being spent, premised on the expectation of receiving fair value. An expectation that was ruined by exploits, and value not restored due to a solution that is not a solution.
Whether there is a zombie apocalypse, or a starving kid in Africa commercial is irrelevant to the issue existing at this time within Neverwinter.
It's reparable seeing as how the game is only in Beta, which is the point to catch things like this before the release.
No........
This game will forever be in "beta"
You don't have a cash shop in a beta test, look at Planetside 2, during beta even open beta the cash shop wasn't accessible and they said that all characters would be wiped when the game officially launched.
PWE allowed you to use the cash shop and has said that they weren't going to wipe characters, call it beta all you want, they launched the game.
Yes, I did sense this. I, like many others I'm certain, noted that the item price value of certain t1/t2 set pieces was disproportional to the time investment required (turns out certain players were repeat farming set pieces in certain instances from a boss, doing hundreds of runs per day, dropping the values of these items, and causing a huge influx in gold due to gold vendoring), and the prices of certain t1/t2 pieces to rise (due to these players having more AD to spend on items and being willing to outbid other players.
Another exploit, which you can read about on the front page, involved Guardians and CWs either one-shotting bosses, or hitting for hundreds of thousands/millions of damage due to exploitable bugs in-game, allowing them to solo-farm or trivialize content (leading to influx in AD/items/ruining the economy). These are already confirmed by PWE prior to the exploit yesterday. Again, you can read about it. Its why accounts were perma-banned prior to this issue.
Also, if you don't think bugs/exploits still exist, join a Lair of the Spider Queen / Pirate King / Lair of the Mad Dragon (or any other heroic instance) and watch the solutions your group proposes for *ahem* creative usage of mechanics to bug out or exploit pull certain bosses, to skip content, etc.
Argued with the same clarity, and lack of purpose as your last post. Stop wasting the time derailing the thread.
So knowing this. Why did you spend money on the game?
These observations occurred post-zen purchase, and are the reason I've not spent money on zen since. Any other questions since you have nothing to say about my actual post other than trying to score some cheap point when I've pointed out tons of examples of the economy being irreparably ruined due to exploits?
Same. If I'm even still playing. Their multiple daily completion for AD, no tomes still, need/greed loot system, & healing aggro debacle is wearing extremely thin.
This exploit and their handling of it doesn't even really bother me much compared to those concerns. I can live with this. The others I won't be for much longer.
Well than you're in your right to complain.
The exploits of bosses and getting cheap loot from them has indeed been known for longer. I'm against a entire reset tho as you suggested since this will affect a lot of people not doing anything wrong and just wanting to play a game for fun. If anything they should have made the beta so you'll have a reset before going live. I'm afraid the potential money making period in a beta which does not have a reset at the end made PWE go blind.
I still believe a lot of reactions are out of line and downright stupid. That has nothing to do with you tho.
Epic. Bravo
I personaly see this as a major step forward for PWE, believe me.. they are better then frickin blizzard in this regard
Though i do agree with some points so ill stop there before i get to ranty about it