They're refunding your zen for that time period so not sure what the problem is.
Not defending the overall situation but seems kind of a moot point here.
The problem is that if you bought Zen for the purposes of using it to buy in-game equipment by selling it for AD, then discovering that it has become devalued because the prices of items are artificially high due to certain players having billions of AD, then your purchases have become less value then you were led to believe they were worth.
I have so far bought $40 worth of ZEN; well not really bought, more like used money left on my Game Stop card I got for trade ins, since I don't play console games anymore. So, it didn't cost me anything lol, BUT THAT'S NOT THE POINT!!!
I would of happily spent money for NEW Classes (I'd drop 20 to 50 for a Monk alone lol), Races, or other stuff like that. Right now, I'm iffy if this game will ever see another cent from me, which is sad because I have been excited for this game since it was initially announced.
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gruntpyreMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
Let me ask the 'defend PWE at all cost fanboys / concern trolls" the following question:
Why would you continue to buy Zen when some players have made billions of AD prior to the rollback, and have artificially inflated the cost of certain items in the auction house; thus devaluing your Zen?
So what you are saying is if i go to the bike store and spend $800 on a bike and it is broken, oh well my loss keep it anyways?
In technicality, you bought the metal, the fact that is assembled into a bicycle....
Ok, kidding aside... this did not break the game. A small roll back did not corrupt everything, it can all be enjoyed. If it wasnt for the servers being offline, few people would even know of the exploit and care. There WAS a problem, they DID fix it, people WILL be pissed because it was an inconvenience for them. Games not broken, its being fixed. Same thing on if the bike is broken and they fix it. Also, its digital media so it follows different rules.
So what you are saying is if i go to the bike store and spend $800 on a bike and it is broken, oh well my loss keep it anyways?
It's not broken They roll back to before the majority of the damage was done.
If i buy a bike thats 800 dollars and my buddy get to ride on it and runs in through glass and my tire is flat. I don't go and complain at the shop that my bike is broken and i want a refund.
If you spend money on this game and you get Zen points or whatever you wanted for it and you got it, than PWE did his job correct. They are taking action right now to make sure your purchase holds it value.
Me neither. I also requested a refund for the $800 we spent on this joke of a game. If it wasn't for STO, I would just do a chargeback and get it over with - but I don't want to have my account banned from STO.
This is exactly what I will be saying in 24 hours if they do not rollback to 0 hour.
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gruntpyreMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Yes you will, 5 days from now everyone has forgotten this and we're all back to being happy.
And no I will not. I've bought a Guardian Pack and made one zen purchase premised on the expectation that Zen would confer sufficient value to purchase the items I desired, and or play the auction house/zen exchange and make more money to purchase items.
This exploit, and the response of PWE has assured me that the economy is ruined, and in the event of exploits, my purchases will become even more devalued than they already were, thus ensuring that I would have to purchase more Zen in order to have competitive amounts of currency. On that, I will do no such thing.
The exploit was going on since the beginning all the way back from closed beta, yet only a 7 hour roll back.. this does not fix the issue but puts some neosporin on it.
Actually, where is the evidence for the claim that this exploit had been around for so long? I see the claim being made and repeated, but I don't actually see any "proof". The evidence that this may not be the case is that the AD/Zen exchange rate has been steadily decreasing, in exactly the pattern you would expect (started at 500:1 when all founders had plenty of AD, and decreased steadily since then as the demand was higher than the supply).
So IF this exploit had been around before, the impact on the economy was not noticeable. The 7 hours cover the period when it DID affect the economy. If it had been around, it was not wide spread or noticeable, and that would mean they can easily handle it on a one-by-one basis. And it may not have been discovered or used before just yesterday, either.
Nothing says not caring more than posting how little you care in a thread.
PWE presumably cares about paying customers. If they are satisfied losing them, then I am satisfied leaving to another game, no worry for me. The players that should be most concerned are fanboys who troll forum threads, supporting games who screw them over while the population flees.
How am I being screwed over? They are fixing a major economy collapse, not taking away what you paid for. If you lack basic understanding, by all means, leave.
Profile name / Ingame handle: @FearGXxD
Shard: Mindflayer
Characters: Grim, Rune, Holy, Ruin - If the name isn't the @FearGXxD handle, it's not me!
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weisskreuz421Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 29Arc User
It's not broken They roll back to before the majority of the damage was done.
If i buy a bike thats 800 dollars and my buddy get to ride on it and runs in through glass and my tire is flat. I don't go and complain at the shop that my bike is broken and i want a refund.
If you spend money on this game and you get Zen points or whatever you wanted for it and you got it, than PWE did his job correct. They are taking action right now to make sure your purchase holds it value.
You miss the point. The bike breaks as you wheel it out of the shop, but they only offer you .25 percent of what you just paid for it. This exploit has been around since only HOTN were playing. It's a pathetic and ignorant solution to roll back such a short time.
Everyone who is raging about not playing anymore is just going through withdrawal. Chill pups.
I'd like to clarify that I am not raging about anything, specifically not the downtime. I'm in favor of much more downtime actually, in order to actually apply a comprehensive intelligent solution to this scenario. The short amount of downtime and the resulting irresponsible solution is actually a negative for the playerbase.
Inflation ruins game economies. It hastens the outflux of the playerbase, and serves as a barrier to players while creating an old money cartel that controls the in-game economy. Anyone who has ever played an MMO that has failed due to economy exploits or lacking in gold sinks should be aware of this.
PWE's solution did not fix the hyper-inflation that has already occurred, and the artificially low prices on certain pieces due to exploiting.
Actually, where is the evidence for the claim that this exploit had been around for so long? I see the claim being made and repeated, but I don't actually see any "proof". The evidence that this may not be the case is that the AD/Zen exchange rate has been steadily decreasing, in exactly the pattern you would expect (started at 500:1 when all founders had plenty of AD, and decreased steadily since then as the demand was higher than the supply).
So IF this exploit had been around before, the impact on the economy was not noticeable. The 7 hours cover the period when it DID affect the economy. If it had been around, it was not wide spread or noticeable, and that would mean they can easily handle it on a one-by-one basis. And it may not have been discovered or used before just yesterday, either.
People were posting on their mule accounts that did not get banned saying that they had been doing this for a a couple of weeks now... And i am sure no one would lie and risk getting their accounts banned to say something happened that did not
And no I will not. I've bought a Guardian Pack and made one zen purchase premised on the expectation that Zen would confer sufficient value to purchase the items I desired, and or play the auction house/zen exchange and make more money to purchase items.
This exploit, and the response of PWE has assured me that the economy is ruined, and in the event of exploits, my purchases will become even more devalued than they already were, thus ensuring that I would have to purchase more Zen in order to have competitive amounts of currency. On that, I will do no such thing.
They are rolling back, so how will your purchase lose value? The economy as it was yesterday was broken as can be. If you bought zen in the hope you'll get 500 AD out of 1 Zen. Than yes you'll be fairly pissed. On the other hand you could have smelled something was wrong the minute you've seen the AD go from 360-380 up to 500.
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gruntpyreMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
This is beta.
I don't even have to add anything else, since your logic should crumble down to pieces like a paper-castle with that one sentence.
Since you don't actually understand logic, or that this is a soft launch, not a traditional beta, then I would suggest you pick up the ruins of your own failed paper-castle analogy and use them to build a paper airplane, which you use to sail yourself out of this thread, back to delusional troll-fanbois land.
And no I will not. I've bought a Guardian Pack and made one zen purchase premised on the expectation that Zen would confer sufficient value to purchase the items I desired, and or play the auction house/zen exchange and make more money to purchase items.
This hasn't changed. If anything, items in the AH are now cheaper than they were at the time you purchased the founder pack or made the Zen purchase, so the buying power of what you purchased has increased. Same with the conversion rate. Before the exploit, the exchange rate was 360:1, down from 500:1. I bought up 15M AD during headstart at 500:1, which cost 30,000 Zen. Exchanging them back at 360:1, this yields around 42,000 Zen. You presumably did the same, so your desire to "make money" is met. (However, this is speculative, and if you speculate, you take a risk that what you expect may not come to pass.)
How you spend your money is your business. If they had not done a rollback I would have considered asking for a refund, but as I said, the rollback does address my core concern, at least based on the information available now. We'll see over the next few days how the exchange rate and AH prices behave.
clockwerkninjaMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
The exploit has been in game from closed beta ..It was being used along with every other exploit on day 1 of OB...I m with the OP, no more money from me..NWO can die with every other failed attempt at a DnD pc game.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Quote Originally Posted by roents
It's an "open beta" that can't be wiped even in the midst of multiple economy destroying exploits. FUN
They are rolling back, so how will your purchase lose value? The economy as it was yesterday was broken as can be. If you bought zen in the hope you'll get 500 AD out of 1 Zen. Than yes you'll be fairly pissed. On the other hand you could have smelled something was wrong the minute you've seen the AD go from 360-380 up to 500.
The economy is interconnected for all players. The rollback is part of a good idea, not a complete good idea. The only way to fix the ruined economy is to completely wipe the servers and start over, refunding players the zen/packs they purchased, potentially keeping naked characters at their appropriate level.
Let me ask you a question: How can you be certain that the time period selected by PWE is the appropriate time period to root out the hyper-inflation and economic ruin that happened, and not merely an approximated arbitrary value?
Better yet, how do you know that the exploit did not exist before the time period selected as the cutoff? Do you really believe the exploit just sprang into being at that particular point in time?
The solution to this exploiter debacle has assured me that PWE cannot be trusted to respect the purchases I have made, or will make, to the extent that their value is assured.
As a result, I will never purchase Zen again. Even if I am the only player that feels this way, you've just lost my money, unless you take some form of correction to reset the economy / create a new shard free from a corrupted economy.
Heres the name of my lawyer "Barry D. Vaughn" <--he is over the top in Commercial Law and has been a federal judge since 1978 and still is his website is www*proctorvaughn*com I am suing them also for harassment..they let a "hacker with a foriegn IP take control of my main account assured me theyd get it returned and left me hanging and helpless about getting my account back unbanned<--ffs They let security drop to a worm . Do yourself a favor and screenshot each tranction before contacting him . Good Luck to you
Actually, where is the evidence for the claim that this exploit had been around for so long? I see the claim being made and repeated, but I don't actually see any "proof". The evidence that this may not be the case is that the AD/Zen exchange rate has been steadily decreasing, in exactly the pattern you would expect (started at 500:1 when all founders had plenty of AD, and decreased steadily since then as the demand was higher than the supply).
So IF this exploit had been around before, the impact on the economy was not noticeable. The 7 hours cover the period when it DID affect the economy. If it had been around, it was not wide spread or noticeable, and that would mean they can easily handle it on a one-by-one basis. And it may not have been discovered or used before just yesterday, either.
It has been around for least a couple of days. Was being discussed in general the other day on Beholder in a zone. That was where I first heard of it. I can't say if it was really present since cb. I was under the impression something that needed to be used for this wasn't even available in CB but then again I never really looked into it so I could be mistaken.
I think it has been present for a while but apparently those that discovered it were rather hush hush with who they sahred the info with. Usually goes that anyways until they get their fill and open the flood gates or they confide in someone that simply shares the info with everyone. Unfortunately exploits in most games go on for a while until they become widely known which is almost always way after the fact.
No one cares about your money, it was your choice to spend what you did on the game and the purchase is already complete. They are taking care of the exploitation and in no way will it have an impact on what you have already purchased, so stop trying to get your money back. It's spent and you got what you wanted from it, there were no hidden coverages or anything so deal with it. If you really feel the way you do it's fine, no need to post about it.
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talung34Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Guys, you're grinching over a character roll-back of a day or two to correct some exploitation, where they could have said "Everybody Start From Square One."
Seriously? Get a grip on yourselves, get some sleep (I know it's hard to do) take a look at the situation from a fresh perspective.
So in your world your time is a worthless asset? I have a job for you then, but don't worry about getting paid since it is only gonna take up your time.
Comments
You and me both.
The problem is that if you bought Zen for the purposes of using it to buy in-game equipment by selling it for AD, then discovering that it has become devalued because the prices of items are artificially high due to certain players having billions of AD, then your purchases have become less value then you were led to believe they were worth.
The exploit has existed the entire time.
I would of happily spent money for NEW Classes (I'd drop 20 to 50 for a Monk alone lol), Races, or other stuff like that. Right now, I'm iffy if this game will ever see another cent from me, which is sad because I have been excited for this game since it was initially announced.
Why would you continue to buy Zen when some players have made billions of AD prior to the rollback, and have artificially inflated the cost of certain items in the auction house; thus devaluing your Zen?
In technicality, you bought the metal, the fact that is assembled into a bicycle....
Ok, kidding aside... this did not break the game. A small roll back did not corrupt everything, it can all be enjoyed. If it wasnt for the servers being offline, few people would even know of the exploit and care. There WAS a problem, they DID fix it, people WILL be pissed because it was an inconvenience for them. Games not broken, its being fixed. Same thing on if the bike is broken and they fix it. Also, its digital media so it follows different rules.
It's not broken
If i buy a bike thats 800 dollars and my buddy get to ride on it and runs in through glass and my tire is flat. I don't go and complain at the shop that my bike is broken and i want a refund.
If you spend money on this game and you get Zen points or whatever you wanted for it and you got it, than PWE did his job correct. They are taking action right now to make sure your purchase holds it value.
This is exactly what I will be saying in 24 hours if they do not rollback to 0 hour.
And no I will not. I've bought a Guardian Pack and made one zen purchase premised on the expectation that Zen would confer sufficient value to purchase the items I desired, and or play the auction house/zen exchange and make more money to purchase items.
This exploit, and the response of PWE has assured me that the economy is ruined, and in the event of exploits, my purchases will become even more devalued than they already were, thus ensuring that I would have to purchase more Zen in order to have competitive amounts of currency. On that, I will do no such thing.
Actually, where is the evidence for the claim that this exploit had been around for so long? I see the claim being made and repeated, but I don't actually see any "proof". The evidence that this may not be the case is that the AD/Zen exchange rate has been steadily decreasing, in exactly the pattern you would expect (started at 500:1 when all founders had plenty of AD, and decreased steadily since then as the demand was higher than the supply).
So IF this exploit had been around before, the impact on the economy was not noticeable. The 7 hours cover the period when it DID affect the economy. If it had been around, it was not wide spread or noticeable, and that would mean they can easily handle it on a one-by-one basis. And it may not have been discovered or used before just yesterday, either.
How am I being screwed over? They are fixing a major economy collapse, not taking away what you paid for. If you lack basic understanding, by all means, leave.
Shard: Mindflayer
Characters: Grim, Rune, Holy, Ruin - If the name isn't the @FearGXxD handle, it's not me!
You miss the point. The bike breaks as you wheel it out of the shop, but they only offer you .25 percent of what you just paid for it. This exploit has been around since only HOTN were playing. It's a pathetic and ignorant solution to roll back such a short time.
Thank for the clarification Cryptic!
Well let's see it from the bright side...
With this they saved us all the money we were going to spend on their store!
It's hard to find companies that save your money nowdays... Thanks folks!
Gaurwulf - GF, hybrid tank/dps, GS 12.5k
I don't even have to add anything else, since your logic should crumble down to pieces like a paper-castle with that one sentence.
I'd like to clarify that I am not raging about anything, specifically not the downtime. I'm in favor of much more downtime actually, in order to actually apply a comprehensive intelligent solution to this scenario. The short amount of downtime and the resulting irresponsible solution is actually a negative for the playerbase.
Inflation ruins game economies. It hastens the outflux of the playerbase, and serves as a barrier to players while creating an old money cartel that controls the in-game economy. Anyone who has ever played an MMO that has failed due to economy exploits or lacking in gold sinks should be aware of this.
PWE's solution did not fix the hyper-inflation that has already occurred, and the artificially low prices on certain pieces due to exploiting.
People were posting on their mule accounts that did not get banned saying that they had been doing this for a a couple of weeks now... And i am sure no one would lie and risk getting their accounts banned to say something happened that did not
They are rolling back, so how will your purchase lose value? The economy as it was yesterday was broken as can be. If you bought zen in the hope you'll get 500 AD out of 1 Zen. Than yes you'll be fairly pissed. On the other hand you could have smelled something was wrong the minute you've seen the AD go from 360-380 up to 500.
Since you don't actually understand logic, or that this is a soft launch, not a traditional beta, then I would suggest you pick up the ruins of your own failed paper-castle analogy and use them to build a paper airplane, which you use to sail yourself out of this thread, back to delusional troll-fanbois land.
You play a beta what else did you expect? You are a tester.
This hasn't changed. If anything, items in the AH are now cheaper than they were at the time you purchased the founder pack or made the Zen purchase, so the buying power of what you purchased has increased. Same with the conversion rate. Before the exploit, the exchange rate was 360:1, down from 500:1. I bought up 15M AD during headstart at 500:1, which cost 30,000 Zen. Exchanging them back at 360:1, this yields around 42,000 Zen. You presumably did the same, so your desire to "make money" is met. (However, this is speculative, and if you speculate, you take a risk that what you expect may not come to pass.)
How you spend your money is your business. If they had not done a rollback I would have considered asking for a refund, but as I said, the rollback does address my core concern, at least based on the information available now. We'll see over the next few days how the exchange rate and AH prices behave.
Quote Originally Posted by roents
It's an "open beta" that can't be wiped even in the midst of multiple economy destroying exploits. FUN
The economy is interconnected for all players. The rollback is part of a good idea, not a complete good idea. The only way to fix the ruined economy is to completely wipe the servers and start over, refunding players the zen/packs they purchased, potentially keeping naked characters at their appropriate level.
Let me ask you a question: How can you be certain that the time period selected by PWE is the appropriate time period to root out the hyper-inflation and economic ruin that happened, and not merely an approximated arbitrary value?
Better yet, how do you know that the exploit did not exist before the time period selected as the cutoff? Do you really believe the exploit just sprang into being at that particular point in time?
Heres the name of my lawyer "Barry D. Vaughn" <--he is over the top in Commercial Law and has been a federal judge since 1978 and still is his website is www*proctorvaughn*com I am suing them also for harassment..they let a "hacker with a foriegn IP take control of my main account assured me theyd get it returned and left me hanging and helpless about getting my account back unbanned<--ffs They let security drop to a worm . Do yourself a favor and screenshot each tranction before contacting him . Good Luck to you
What sort of screwed-up management decides that it's a fine idea to force beta "testers" into paying real money to "test" a cash shop?
If it was a test then all the items in the cash shop would be free. Oh, and nobody would be banned for bug abuse, because everything would be wiped.
It has been around for least a couple of days. Was being discussed in general the other day on Beholder in a zone. That was where I first heard of it. I can't say if it was really present since cb. I was under the impression something that needed to be used for this wasn't even available in CB but then again I never really looked into it so I could be mistaken.
I think it has been present for a while but apparently those that discovered it were rather hush hush with who they sahred the info with. Usually goes that anyways until they get their fill and open the flood gates or they confide in someone that simply shares the info with everyone. Unfortunately exploits in most games go on for a while until they become widely known which is almost always way after the fact.
And I find out that the exploits have basically ruined the economy which will be ruined long into the future..
I WANT MY MONEY BACK. F2P games of this is the first one I tried completely suck.
So in your world your time is a worthless asset? I have a job for you then, but don't worry about getting paid since it is only gonna take up your time.