CHEATERS HAVE MULES... u guys re blind to that lol....
They probably didnt even cheat on their main chars... they re just gonna lose mules...
ban a mule... so what? he's still there... still benefiting from the scamm and cheats
It just depends on their tools to research. I mean seriously, they can track hackers all the way to Singapore China. And unless you are James Bond on the net and can truly mask your IP address, then you leave a digital footprint that can be tracked. What you don't think they can see how many accounts come across a certain IP addy and then flag that IP address? With that said, I don't know what they have in place or not, nor do I know how much time they are willing to invest eliminating cheaters.
What I do know, the first game that takes banning seriously, and I mean like perma-ban, I will more than likely invest more money in that game. Seriously, cheaters and exploiters devalue that Founders Pack considerably. I didn't buy it because I have been burned TOO many times by investing heavily in it for it only to be ruined by hackers, exploiters, cheaters, and jerks (would use a harsher word but I like this game so far).
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dystarrMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
Cheaters want a wipe? Really OP? I"m trying to figure out how in the world that makes sense. The ones that DONT want the wipe are the ones that A: dont care about/arent affected by the economy and are playing for fun only and have no plans to do t2 dd's or raiding if that ever comes out or B: have already gained a bunch of stuff through other exploits and only want a rollback so they dont lose all their pirate king drake seal farm items, or their tank can instakill everything in CN loot run items. I've paid 60 bucks into the game, I"ve had my fair share of luck in opening boxes and selling stuff on the AH, and I still say wipe the slate clean, fix the cheats, ban the cheaters (PERMA not 72 hours) and refund peoples zen and founders AD (and I'm not a founder either)
You say it like you think cheaters are cool..they're not they are fail in life. Oh wow "cheaters have backups" they are so smart. It's not smart cheating or having this bs attitude in the first place. Lmao at all the "tough" crew in these forums. You are all about as tough as a Micheal Jackson crying.
Everyone who doesn't want a wipe still has their mules and don't care the account they used to exploit the AH got banned - they already made off with the goods.
If you think they can't tell where the items are being moved/mailed to I don't know what to tell you.
And I dont know how in the hell you can consider CNN or Fox actually news organizations. I trust the news coming from the Colbert Report and the Daily Show more then I trust those idiots. I mean come on. Have you honestly listened to Nancy Grace or Piers Morgan?
Its easy if disregard commentary, the fact is she stabbed, shot in the head and cut her BF's throat while he was showering. I mean come on I watch CNN and Fox both, you know why? Because in the middle of their comment lies the truth. I am not a mindless zombie. I mean come on, you think they fabricated her killing her ex BF just for ratings? Because it dad gum sure ain't politics (which I could care less about) and Piers and Nancy and whoever is on fox are all flippin idiots. I am so sick of politicians I no longer care, because I cant outvote idiots by lonesome nor change their mind, and I mean BOTH Republicans and Democrats.
Except for the people who did that, knowing they would be caught. THen transfered it thru rare and valueable items that they can resell at a later date and time, after all this blows over. Those people wont be caught. Those are the people that make a wipe neccessary. Unless your going to clear every toon in game of gear and all funds. In which case you may as well wipe everything.
Except that doesn't really stop much. Past precedent in other games shows that some people will go to some rediculous lengths of complex "laundering"......and they'll get away with it. Make no mistake, I'm not saying that every last drop of exploited resources will be recovered without a wipe. Some, or "lesser offenses", will almost certainly slip through the cracks.
Others with a one or two transaction jump will find it all wiped out, with innocent looking form letters in their e-mail explaining how the company is "sorry for the inconvenience" of the items missing from their bank.
As huge as stuff like this looks when it first happens, so long as the game company purges the vast majority of resources and laundered items the end time impact is very minimal.
Everyone who doesn't want a wipe still has their mules and don't care the account they used to exploit the AH got banned - they already made off with the goods.
Actually, I have a full-time job and a garden that needs my attention, and when I game I want to see all the content, not zoom through levels just to get to the cap ASAP. For players like me, who don't tend to hang around on forums and therefore don't ahve much of a voice here, an unexpected wipe represents a huge waste of time. I can't reach 60 in two days, and I wouldn't want to.
And I don't appreciate being called a cheater for not wanting my hard-won progress wiped out.
dont really care about the cheaters or the goldsellers...
goldsellers in specific wont benefit from this because if there is a wipe... NO ONE WILL BE DUMB ENOUGH TO BUY FROM THEM AGAIN...today... they buy from goldsellers because they think it's safe... that they will get what they want for the money they pay... if they do make a wipe and refund the official buyers ... the non-official buyers will be scammed... and will learn not to trust non-official sources... gold sellers will break down as they will lose customers...
cheaters... if u dont make a wipe... they already have mules pilled with itens... they will have more advantage if u dont ban them that if u did... all starts from 0 = all equal... if u dont wipe... the cheaters still have their stuff... maybe even their main chars... coz they have mules!!!!!!!!!!!!
Only, PW is the gold seller in Neverwinter. If you wanted you could buy Zen from them, then buy AD in Neverwinter. The reason why gold is worthless (I am taking a guess) is so gold sellers can't sell gold (because you can't buy gear/mounts/pots/companions/stones/etc.. with gold) and you instead buy Zen form PW instead. I wonder if anyone realizes how pointless selling gold in this game is going to be. It is a new concept players have to get their minds around because gold is the main currency in most MMOs. I have over 60 gold right now with more than enough wound healing packets to last Frozen Heart farming.
combatcasMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 10Arc User
edited May 2013
Keep the bans, wipes are to reset the economy. I don't understand how wipes benefit anyone this way. It's basically wealth redistribution. Anything you didn't buy with cash is gone. Zen you bought is refunded to your account with founder AD only and you start fresh. Without the exploit the major way to cheat is gone. There will always be someone cheating and it's never bothered me before as it's akin to cheating in solitaire and not something I've ever considered worth the effort but the cheating will not be at the same level as to disrupt the entire player base.
The only thing I can say for sure is the statement "Cheaters are the ones that want rollbacks" is inflammatory, immature and false. Maybe some do, not all of them and not everyone that wants them is a cheater. That's about as mature as the reply "Anyone that doesn't want wipes is a cheater" because they'll keep the gains they've made as many didn't exploit enough for a ban. Of course it's a mixed bag on both sides.
Let's try to relax, use some common sense, a little reason and some ****ing civility here.
The fact that people get so emotional means they're invested and the more people scream about leaving only proves how bad they want to stay (and more than likely will, regardless of what happens since the people leaving usually do so quietly). I say if you enjoy the game and don't lose anything but time.. eh' who really cares. If it's fun I'll play. If my account was stolen I'd start again so for the benefit of the game I'd be willing to level again. wipes / no wipes damage has been done and crying solves nothing. No one opinion will sway them either way. The game will go on, it will be fine and no one will care about this in a week. The trick is not to turn in to a sniveling nut case over temporary issues in a pretend world.
At 17 I was jumping out of C-141's and being shot at by war lords in the Caribbean while stepping over hundreds of dead villagers. I swear not one of the survivors reacted remotely as insane as some of the people do on these **** forums when their little world is impeded upon by the audacity of others..
Perspective, get some.
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lexthegreatMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I am not a cheater but now I really, really want a ham sandwich.
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starkaosMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
I seriously doubt Cryptic can't figure out which accounts are mule accounts. It just involves figuring out which mails have gone out from an exploiter account. If a level 4 character has level 60 purple equipment, then there is a 99.999% chance it is a mule account.
As far as the claim that people that don't want a wipe are cheaters, it is completely insane. Some people's time is worth more than others. Some people can waste 10 hours a day playing the game while others can only waste a few hours a week to play. Then some people don't like wasted effort. If I spend 30 hours to get to level 60, then a wipe would mean those 30 hours are wasted.
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starkaosMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
OP is correct. The folks advocating hard for a wipe are likely the ones who cheated and fear retribution. If we all get screwed then at least it's a level playing field.
And it's especially appealing to the gold sellers.
No, no wipe. And I hope they ban everyone who exploited. Those of us with self-control don't need to be punished because you couldn't resist a chance to cheat.
OP is correct. The folks advocating hard for a wipe are likely the ones who cheated and fear retribution. If we all get screwed then at least it's a level playing field.
And it's especially appealing to the gold sellers.
No, no wipe. And I hope they ban everyone who exploited. Those of us with self-control don't need to be punished because you couldn't resist a chance to cheat.
Except they are banning accounts too, so for the most part a full wipe would even things again, those that even indirectly benefitted would be on even grounds, and those not banned that purchased things via 3rd parties get hosed too. Now the gold farmers already got their cash and there is nothing they can do about that. However, they already said there would not be a "FULL" wipe, but they haven't said anything about roll backs or currency reduction or removal either.
It is easy enough to filter through the exploiters as well as transactions characters make with other characters. Anyone whom partook in suspicious activity through transfer of exploited content could be banned and the rest would be not phased at all. Just a lot of work and time to be put in on that end. Everything has a history. Just saying...
....But you say nothing needs to be done? I think YOUR the gold farmer and seller, YOUR the people who have been using the exploits and dont want to lose your ill gotten gains. That's what I think.
The price of Zen in Ad should fall as the large pool of initial AD is spent at a faster rate than new Ad is being farmed. For example buying mounts, guild banks etc... As we headed into the double AP weekend the price of zen had fallen from around 380 to 360. Even with double AD over that weekend the price fell to about 350 because the double AD slowed the rate of the price fall. However, today before the shut down of servers the price was up to 400 AD to buy Zen.
Clearly the flood of exploited Ad had driven the price back up. If there is not a server wipe, these servers will always have an inflated price of ZEN. With no wipe the person hurt the most is the honest player that wants to trade his earned AD for ZEN when the price of ZEN is inflated by counterfeiting.
For example, lets say in your country the legal currency suddenly became very easy to counterfeit on any laser printer in an undetectable way. Prices would sky rocket over a short period of time as the honest person gets screwed...
Everyone who doesn't want a wipe still has their mules and don't care the account they used to exploit the AH got banned - they already made off with the goods.
Exactly this..You see very few people with founder titles on here against a wipe..Even the few that do show up are suspect.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Quote Originally Posted by roents
It's an "open beta" that can't be wiped even in the midst of multiple economy destroying exploits. FUN
blodvaerdMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 11Arc User
edited May 2013
Forget about wiping the servers, that only hurts those that did not use the exploit. Just wipe the Auction House, the Diamond Merchants and the Zen Store. Refund any Zen, directly bought with outside RL money. Reset everyone's Diamonds to the original amount of their Founders Packs.
Then do not reopen the Auction House, ever.... Player to Player trade is all there should be. Reopen the Zen Store in a few months, that should allow enough time for everything to reset to normal prices.
It really is a shame, this game might not recover from this. What PW should also do is make an example of these exploiters and press criminal charges for the theft of services. Make these a$$hats pay real world money for lawyers.
blodvaerdMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 11Arc User
edited May 2013
best way for the honest person not to get screwed by either the exploiters or PW is to take the selling of Zen out of the hands of players and have PW set the price of Astral Diamonds per Zen.
Only people who don't want a wipe are the ones who exploited to 60 with foundry and got all of their items from dungeon exploits. They muled all of the AD they got with the gateway exploit to other accounts and began level up alts to play with hacked goods.
So remember every single person who posts that they will quit if there is a wipe has foundry exploited to 60 and cheated all their items.
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beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
edited May 2013
I don't know if I'm supposed to be more insulted for being repeatedly informed I must be an exploiter, or alternatively dismissed as a "casual" player as though that was a dirty word. (I'm not really insulted, but what a bunch of drama-llamas.)
I didn't want a wipe because it will likely take months for me to reach 60 with both my dudes. I wouldn't want accelerated xp as a compensation because I'd start outlevelling content before I got to it, and I don't want to miss anything.
Too much fuss about nothing.Why would any player who doesnt benefit from the current situation wouldn't want a wipe?For loosing his progress?Seriously?I'm playing this mmo for less than 2 weeks got to lvl60 on full T2 set and T3 jewels good companions and stuff without exploiting! i mean come which official mmo have you played with that easy to reach endgame?What would left for me to do anyway farm CN endlessly for a weapon then hoping to release new content?Or farming same bugged instances over and over again in order to catch up with the prices,exploiters will have created?
Considering the AD exploit and tracking exploiters,lets say someone exploits with 2nd account and gets large amount of AD then with a 3rd account he lists bounty marks for example for max price which he then buys with 2nd account,then makes 4th account logging with it by using proxy server and list bounty marks for max price which buys with 3rd account can that guy be tracked? I dont care much anyway,beta test phases are to fix bugs even though they promised no wipes i would prefer one.I'd rather play 2 more weeks trying a new class a new race and be 100% sure no one has any advantage over me just because he exploited and got away with it like the OP probably.And to end with dont be angry with exploiters be angry with PW that promised "no wipes" and now a wipe is mandattory.Most people like new mmos to see something new and are also intrigued by the clean start being equal with everyone else in terms of gear and wealth.All that goes away if they dont wipe,having to compete some exploiters that made a fortune during beta...
Comments
It just depends on their tools to research. I mean seriously, they can track hackers all the way to Singapore China. And unless you are James Bond on the net and can truly mask your IP address, then you leave a digital footprint that can be tracked. What you don't think they can see how many accounts come across a certain IP addy and then flag that IP address? With that said, I don't know what they have in place or not, nor do I know how much time they are willing to invest eliminating cheaters.
What I do know, the first game that takes banning seriously, and I mean like perma-ban, I will more than likely invest more money in that game. Seriously, cheaters and exploiters devalue that Founders Pack considerably. I didn't buy it because I have been burned TOO many times by investing heavily in it for it only to be ruined by hackers, exploiters, cheaters, and jerks (would use a harsher word but I like this game so far).
If you think they can't tell where the items are being moved/mailed to I don't know what to tell you.
Its easy if disregard commentary, the fact is she stabbed, shot in the head and cut her BF's throat while he was showering. I mean come on I watch CNN and Fox both, you know why? Because in the middle of their comment lies the truth. I am not a mindless zombie. I mean come on, you think they fabricated her killing her ex BF just for ratings? Because it dad gum sure ain't politics (which I could care less about) and Piers and Nancy and whoever is on fox are all flippin idiots. I am so sick of politicians I no longer care, because I cant outvote idiots by lonesome nor change their mind, and I mean BOTH Republicans and Democrats.
Except that doesn't really stop much. Past precedent in other games shows that some people will go to some rediculous lengths of complex "laundering"......and they'll get away with it. Make no mistake, I'm not saying that every last drop of exploited resources will be recovered without a wipe. Some, or "lesser offenses", will almost certainly slip through the cracks.
Others with a one or two transaction jump will find it all wiped out, with innocent looking form letters in their e-mail explaining how the company is "sorry for the inconvenience" of the items missing from their bank.
As huge as stuff like this looks when it first happens, so long as the game company purges the vast majority of resources and laundered items the end time impact is very minimal.
So now you need to think about an old engineering axiom that holds true for all types of projects.
You can go Good, Fast, Cheap.. Pick Two.
My money is on good and cheap.
Let them take the time necessary to minimize the damage to those not utilizing the exploit.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
1- 20, 2- 35, 3- 18, 4- 20 min
Comments to -> the Book Binding
Actually, I have a full-time job and a garden that needs my attention, and when I game I want to see all the content, not zoom through levels just to get to the cap ASAP. For players like me, who don't tend to hang around on forums and therefore don't ahve much of a voice here, an unexpected wipe represents a huge waste of time. I can't reach 60 in two days, and I wouldn't want to.
And I don't appreciate being called a cheater for not wanting my hard-won progress wiped out.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
Only, PW is the gold seller in Neverwinter. If you wanted you could buy Zen from them, then buy AD in Neverwinter. The reason why gold is worthless (I am taking a guess) is so gold sellers can't sell gold (because you can't buy gear/mounts/pots/companions/stones/etc.. with gold) and you instead buy Zen form PW instead. I wonder if anyone realizes how pointless selling gold in this game is going to be. It is a new concept players have to get their minds around because gold is the main currency in most MMOs. I have over 60 gold right now with more than enough wound healing packets to last Frozen Heart farming.
Let me clarify your statement.
The have already said there will not be a FULL wipe.
That doesn't mean they cant do a roll back and/or wipe AD currency to a certain amount or nothing at all.
The only thing I can say for sure is the statement "Cheaters are the ones that want rollbacks" is inflammatory, immature and false. Maybe some do, not all of them and not everyone that wants them is a cheater. That's about as mature as the reply "Anyone that doesn't want wipes is a cheater" because they'll keep the gains they've made as many didn't exploit enough for a ban. Of course it's a mixed bag on both sides.
Let's try to relax, use some common sense, a little reason and some ****ing civility here.
The fact that people get so emotional means they're invested and the more people scream about leaving only proves how bad they want to stay (and more than likely will, regardless of what happens since the people leaving usually do so quietly). I say if you enjoy the game and don't lose anything but time.. eh' who really cares. If it's fun I'll play. If my account was stolen I'd start again so for the benefit of the game I'd be willing to level again. wipes / no wipes damage has been done and crying solves nothing. No one opinion will sway them either way. The game will go on, it will be fine and no one will care about this in a week. The trick is not to turn in to a sniveling nut case over temporary issues in a pretend world.
At 17 I was jumping out of C-141's and being shot at by war lords in the Caribbean while stepping over hundreds of dead villagers. I swear not one of the survivors reacted remotely as insane as some of the people do on these **** forums when their little world is impeded upon by the audacity of others..
Perspective, get some.
I am not a cheater but now I really, really want a ham sandwich.
As far as the claim that people that don't want a wipe are cheaters, it is completely insane. Some people's time is worth more than others. Some people can waste 10 hours a day playing the game while others can only waste a few hours a week to play. Then some people don't like wasted effort. If I spend 30 hours to get to level 60, then a wipe would mean those 30 hours are wasted.
And it's especially appealing to the gold sellers.
No, no wipe. And I hope they ban everyone who exploited. Those of us with self-control don't need to be punished because you couldn't resist a chance to cheat.
Except they are banning accounts too, so for the most part a full wipe would even things again, those that even indirectly benefitted would be on even grounds, and those not banned that purchased things via 3rd parties get hosed too. Now the gold farmers already got their cash and there is nothing they can do about that. However, they already said there would not be a "FULL" wipe, but they haven't said anything about roll backs or currency reduction or removal either.
Exhibit A:
Lock it down.
Clearly the flood of exploited Ad had driven the price back up. If there is not a server wipe, these servers will always have an inflated price of ZEN. With no wipe the person hurt the most is the honest player that wants to trade his earned AD for ZEN when the price of ZEN is inflated by counterfeiting.
For example, lets say in your country the legal currency suddenly became very easy to counterfeit on any laser printer in an undetectable way. Prices would sky rocket over a short period of time as the honest person gets screwed...
Agreed, they have said there would be no full wipe.
Exactly this..You see very few people with founder titles on here against a wipe..Even the few that do show up are suspect.
Quote Originally Posted by roents
It's an "open beta" that can't be wiped even in the midst of multiple economy destroying exploits. FUN
Digital Footprint
Then do not reopen the Auction House, ever.... Player to Player trade is all there should be. Reopen the Zen Store in a few months, that should allow enough time for everything to reset to normal prices.
It really is a shame, this game might not recover from this. What PW should also do is make an example of these exploiters and press criminal charges for the theft of services. Make these a$$hats pay real world money for lawyers.
Master The UnNamed Company
http://unnamedcompany.guildlaunch.com
Master The UnNamed Company
http://unnamedcompany.guildlaunch.com
So remember every single person who posts that they will quit if there is a wipe has foundry exploited to 60 and cheated all their items.
I didn't want a wipe because it will likely take months for me to reach 60 with both my dudes. I wouldn't want accelerated xp as a compensation because I'd start outlevelling content before I got to it, and I don't want to miss anything.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
I'm sorry to hear about your disability.
Considering the AD exploit and tracking exploiters,lets say someone exploits with 2nd account and gets large amount of AD then with a 3rd account he lists bounty marks for example for max price which he then buys with 2nd account,then makes 4th account logging with it by using proxy server and list bounty marks for max price which buys with 3rd account can that guy be tracked? I dont care much anyway,beta test phases are to fix bugs even though they promised no wipes i would prefer one.I'd rather play 2 more weeks trying a new class a new race and be 100% sure no one has any advantage over me just because he exploited and got away with it like the OP probably.And to end with dont be angry with exploiters be angry with PW that promised "no wipes" and now a wipe is mandattory.Most people like new mmos to see something new and are also intrigued by the clean start being equal with everyone else in terms of gear and wealth.All that goes away if they dont wipe,having to compete some exploiters that made a fortune during beta...