Unless they wipe then they are just continuing to hurt the "innocent players". No amount of rollbacks or bans will ever get rid of all the ad and zen that is now stockpiled by the exploiters. They'll simply wait for this to blow over then destroy the market once again with huge influxes of ad, zen, and gold.
A wipe is the only way to maintain a stable game, playerbase, and economy
yea well I kinda agree now.. a full wipe might be a solution xD but still it's sad that some people got pretty far with the game, but as you and some people say it may be for the best. Just refund Zen we spent and I'm fine, or atleast I have to make do
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bladeviseMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 21Arc User
Thanks for your support and patience as we continue smoothing things out during Open Beta![/COLOR][/B]
If this really is Open Beta why does it cost me $6 to respec? Don't you think it would be fairer to your customers to at least not charge us to respec while skills are still being balanced, or outright repaired/fixed?
I don't mind starting over again. It is a game. I think people lose sight of that. The idea of a game is getting enjoyment out of playing it. If you aren't enjoying playing it then you should probably quit. So I say Do what you will! Wipe it, fix the economy, make it fair and fun. I will start over.
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epixcomixMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 2Arc User
Perfect World, you have an awesome game. I have spent hours playing, leveling up my characters and my professions. To me it has all been a labor of love. I'm willing to give my time and attention to your dynamic creations. To that end, if a reset, or reroll is what is needed to cure the exploits of those who are attempting to destroy the game in progress: DO IT. I do not mind starting over. I do not cheat, there is no need when you are doing a thing you love. The zen I have managed to gather, I have done so by doing surveys, I really do not mind doing it again if that's what it takes to stop cheating pieces of trash. Those who claim they'll 'go play another game' are free to do so. They really haven't invested anything of value to the game anyway. I am a dedicated fan, and I am sure there are a LOT of others like me out there. So I'll say it again, if you need to wipe the servers and make us start over, so be it! Its all for the better, afterall a master work is not created over night. To those who will whine and cry about lost 'work'... whaaa go elsewhere you are not needed or desired.
A wipe is a very drastic thing and will likely cripple their game by losing them a lot of customers...paying customers. You may call people whiners who don't want to see the time they invested lost, but the fact of the matter is time is money. There is something called opportunity cost. If I can make $35 an hour, but instead choose to use that time to play a game I like, I am essentially losing that $35 in order to do something fun. If I invested 100 hours of game time to this point, that would be $3500 of time. Now you may not have a job and live off mom and dad, or you may work at a minimum wage job getting your $7 an hour so don't feel the cost as keenly, but not everyone is like that. And the people making $35 an hour are more likely to be the ones paying the money to support this game.
Aside from that however, there are other issues to take into consideration. For instance, all the pre-order packs they sold included early launch access. If they wipe at this point, they can't start everyone out at the same time unless they are prepared to refund the pack costs to all the customers that purchased them, or shut everyone out again so they can effectively re-launch the game and allow the pack owners to get their early access again, which means locking out the non pack customers for at least another 5 days.
Another point to consider is that, what happens if this isn't the only bug of this size to happen again? You expect them to wipe the game again down the road when another exploit pops up? Bugs and exploits happen all the time in MMOs. If you plan on wiping every time a big one pops up, your game is doomed. You have to come up with better solutions and alternatives. Sometimes you may even need to do drastic things, but a full on wipe is essentially a game restart. If your hand is forced to that, then you have admitted you don't know what you are doing and there is no stability or reason to trust it won't happen again. There are many people who don't want to play or more especially pay for that type of environment.
In an MMO, if you lose your momentum it will drastically affect the continued life of your game. It's happened countless times with many MMOs where they don't address some major issue fast enough, or they go too far in addressing an issue and from that point on the game is merely a hollow shell of what it once was. A wipe is as drastic an action as there is and I guarantee you if it happens, the repercussions will be fierce.
Update: We are identifying the accounts that have utilized the AH exploit and will be taking action against said accounts.
We are also still investigating the severity of the issue and its impact on the game. From this info we will take corrective action.
Estimated downtime is at least 2 more hrs. More updates soon-thanks for your support as we continue smoothing things out in Open Beta!
So, no rollback or wipe yet, exploiters will be banned & AD gains rolled back.
Sucks - I want a full wipe!
When they say AD gaines rolled back does this just mean the last day or 2? Because I heard ppl have been using the AH trick for awhile to get AD but it just recently blew up and lots started to do it. So the question is how far will they roll AD gains back?
0
jimbosaurusMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 3Arc User
lolz, did today 38-46 lvling + some blue items... it would suck to start over it...
anyway what was the bug? what was all that with those cats
****, double post.
ty killsmallchildr1!
The free market has spoken, cats are the new currency.
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yilaneMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 1Arc User
edited May 2013
Just ban the exploiters entire PW account. They knew what they were doing so they deserve it annyway. Then im all for a server whipe as long as they give us back the Zen we put into the game. Then eveything is fixed. lving is fast inhere annyway
0
exile17Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
get all of these dang exploiters out of the game. People like that should not even be playing videogames if they want everything just handed to them :mad:
So some exploiters have ruined everyones day. Hope they feel proud. Go tell your Mom how cool you feel. She was right you know. If it feels wrong it probably is. (Note that I am over 60, and yes I do still care how Mom thinks of me).
Currently I have 4 toons at level 50 and a roll back or wipe may be possible.
How does that make me feel !?
Simple actually. I entered this game knowing there was a Beta tag on the end of it. So <shrug>. Games like Rift and others had rollbacks almost weekly for a short spell during start up. It is what it is.
I am not going to say I would enjoy it (roll or wipe), but I will roll up the sleeves and dive back in.
Even in a wipe scenario there is little loss over all since Zen, etc is tied to the account. Maybe we can all look at this as a good thing. All the mistakes you made during the initial go through can be done right. By the time you ARE 60, a respec would not be necessary since you now have a better understanding of where you really wanted those skill sets to go.
During my work history I was involved in several New And Improved marketing schemes. What these normally meant was that the company found a way to make the same thing cheaper, and sadly, sometimes it cost the consumer more for the N&I label. Point here is that these people work for a specific company. They are going to do whatever they feel is best for the company. I would expect nothing less.
Twitter and forums still say 6 EST. Wait for it and roll with whatever decision they resolve is best. For us maybe, for them certainly.
the Book Binding series by @HarbingerDrum ----> Help Defeat Lolth's Minions
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
bmgropeyMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 12Arc User
edited May 2013
Unban the accounts, complete wipe the server once you've found the remaining exploits, make the dungeon drops Bind on Pickup rather than Bind on Equip.
Here is a list of the unbalanced exploits we've seen so far, far from complete I'm sure
1. 1-60 in an hour using quest share
2. Profession Asset quest exploit
3. CW and GF one shotting bosses to get BiS gear and flood the market to screw up the economy and progression
4. AD explosion and Zen market flood
Been wanting to play but broke my wrist and been wearing a cast for several weeks. I vote for a wipe/reset
On a serious note, I just cannot see how there can be a good solution for PWE and all playing parties. It's damage control. I prefer a wipe/reset but those that have put forth their time and money legitimately should not be punished. I hope PWE has measures in place they can quickly and accurately assess the bad apples and laundering activities.
0
sw33tch33ksMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 7Arc User
I love how some people are screaming for "No rollback, No wipe."
Even if they ban all the exploiters(which is impossible,) The effects of these exploits will remain in the economy for weeks, even months after.
The only way to fix this, is to resolve the issue, and ensure that they aren't repeatable, and then do a full wipe. This will clear ALL the ill-gotten ad/items which may be spread out over tens of thousands of accounts.
This is the ONLY way to fix the issues from these exploits.
Actually, every transaction is logged in a database. Who it's from, and who it's to and when the transaction was made. They can run a script that finds every -AD transaction and then run another script on those accounts that recursively rolls back every step until every last AD is accounted for. If people sold an item on the AH to somebody who used the exploit, the person will get their item back. If they spent the AD on something, that item will get taken away.
Not a crisis and not game breaking, the sky isn't falling.
Oh yea, your a real genius, first off pal, I spent a ton of time on several chars and leveling them. I also spent a great deal of time and my ADs buying I wanted for those chars. There is no way they are going to do a wipe, and if they did I will be the first one to sue their asses off to no end.
I'm not going to go through leveling all my chars to 60 again. just because some idiots are exploiting the game. In your moronic mind, lets wipe the server to fix it. okay genius what about the next time there's an exploit? are we supposed to wipe the servers again and again and have everyone one keep re-leveling their chars?
Ill tell you what, stop playing the game, you will be much happier. until then shut up! This is what banning is for, if someone is deliberately taking advantage of the system, you Permanently ban them. end of story!!
The most realistic comment i saw in last month. +1 totally agree
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exile17Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Just ban the exploiters entire PW account. They knew what they were doing so they deserve it annyway. Then im all for a server whipe as long as they give us back the Zen we put into the game. Then eveything is fixed. lving is fast inhere annyway
that won't do much ban account? Bam make a new account.Ban IP? Bam use a diffrent computer somewhere else or IP changer.
Something else to consider...
Sure, go ahead and do a full wipe, it'll be the best thing PWE could do for Trion!
What's that you say, this is a Cryptic game, not a Trion one? Certainly--but given their own F2P switchover is happening in just a couple of weeks, I'm sure they'd be thrilled by the additional incoming players who decide re-building from zero after a wipe isn't worth it. Especially when it costs legitimate players real money. (I'm presuming that PWE *could* restore the Zen of those they have records of actual payment transactions for, but those who earned it via legitimate AD trading would be out of luck--not to mention that I wouldn't have much confidence with even that, given my recent experience with their Offers/Surveys system, where they've refused to credit me with Zen earned despite buying the product from the offer).
The least I want is a 24 hour rollback, otherwise I'll be opening a dispute with PayPal as well. It's time that PWE show how serious they take this kind of exploit.
As much as I hate it without 100% full wipe I'm going to dispute on my transactions with PayPal. 3 weeks of lost gameplay is nothing I was planning to stick with the game for years to come hence my support but this is turning into a fraud.
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clortbagsMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
As a legitimate player of the game ...i have now read 23 pages of an exploit , i never even relised exsisted. i level my toon every day i buy nothing from the AH. as there is no need too , i certainly wouldnt trust cryptic with my credit card details , so they can keep there zen , which by all accounts is worthless , and i collect just enough AD so i can buy a injury kit ect .Roll back wipe i dont give too hoots ...ive not payed a dime for this game , and never would, not after cryptic completly messed up STO. ! .So give me a new class too try in your f2p mmo ...and wipe back too the start suits me .
The favourite part of your post however was the highly creative use of spacing, that was really quite something!
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mystic586Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
As a member of the Beta community, I just want to take a minute to say think you for keeping us informed of the situation. Many times in the past, other game companies didn't see fit to release the status of a problem to their players unless they started screaming. It's nice to know the Developers are taking the time to let us know what's going on.
Whatever the solution eventually is, I am sure it will be done after taking all factors into account.
IF there is a rollback, and it wipes out the quest I've been working on for so many hours, I will quit this, and so will hundreds of other Foundry authors. I had no idea about any exploit, nor do I care about the game's economy. I'm a level 18 rogue with crappy gear, and hardly any AD, because I spent my time trying to create content for other players to enjoy rather than whining about what other people are doing or trying to get rich fast by cheating. I don't deserve to be punished because other people whine and cheat.
Actually, every transaction is logged in a database. Who it's from, and who it's to and when the transaction was made. They can run a script that finds every -AD transaction and then run another script on those accounts that recursively rolls back every step until every last AD is accounted for. If people sold an item on the AH to somebody who used the exploit, the person will get their item back. If they spent the AD on something, that item will get taken away.
Not a crisis and not game breaking, the sky isn't falling.
^This, really. If anyone here honestly believes they don't have databases of all the transactions/mail sent in game, then you clearly don't have much experience with MMOs. Everything is filed and tracked to easily remedy these situations exactly.
As for balancing the economy, rather than relying on a wipe, the community should band together and sort this **** themselves. We're in control of the economy at the end of the day, we can easily fix it if we weren't too busy being dickheads.
My input: I would be satisfied with a complete server wipe - in fact I'd support it very much as long as we get our 5 exclusive days and have the free players wait for our head-start again. That would be fair and logical, and it'd give us a chance to refresh our characters and do things differently that we wish we had done during the first few days of play
jackon23Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
I love to see the staff of a game take charge like this. Shows you that they care for the community and want the game to be fair for everyone. Good work guys, hope it doesn't take long.
Unban the accounts, complete wipe the server once you've found the remaining exploits, make the dungeon drops Bind on Pickup rather than Bind on Equip.
Here is a list of the unbalanced exploits we've seen so far, far from complete I'm sure
1. 1-60 in an hour using quest share
2. Profession Asset quest exploit
3. CW and GF one shotting bosses to get BiS gear and flood the market to screw up the economy and progression
4. AD explosion and Zen market flood
... and who knows how many many more ........ ITS SAD!
p.s
Why ppl are able to Need gear that is not their Class ??????
I don't even know what exploit they are talking about, I have been so busy pve leveling, I am a 54 cleric now, actually gained 4 levels yesterday cause the little woman was gone all day, I had a leveling marathon, it would be so lame to lose levels based on this
I have to give PW some latitude here and hope they figure a way to penalize the exploiters and replace whatever damage was done without losing my character
I may actually shed a tear, believe me when I say, if you do dungeon dailies and you are a cleric, it aint an easy way to level, just saying, I would hate to repeat the work again leveling a cleric, I like her just the way she is now
I admit I made some mistakes over time that had I known about in-game would have made playing my character easier, but that's why I have other character slots
I like playing the game.
I like creating characters
I purchased both Packs
I purchased quite a bit of ZEN
I am not asking for my money back
As long as I get the AD and ZEN I spent money on, reset the game.
I may be a bit upset at the 'wasted' time spent but to reset and fir the economy (and any bugs/exploits) I am for it.
Oh. ANd put that butoon back on top of the game screen and set it up to report bugs and exploits. Hopefulls hones players with report a bug or exploit as soon as he finds it (and help prevent this from happeneing in the future)
Not sure what the exploit is/was, but I did just buy my first cash currency (payed $30 for 3000 zed or zen or something) so I could buy the Golem in the cash shop. If there is a rollback or a wipe, with those of us who bought the cash currency be refunded the amount so we can re-buy or cash shop items?
No wipes or anything of the sort is needed. Not even a global rollback. All accounts that have exploited the issue can and will be identified. Those accounts can be banned. If they stockpiled any AD/Zen on mule accounts, those accounts can also be identified and banned. All it takes is a few database queries and tracing logs on flagged accounts which is what they are currently doing. This is just a time consuming process.
All I see here is a lot of fearmongering from people who do not realize how these things work. Which is understandable. Please relax and let them finish their work.
I also see a lot of "founders" claiming this and that without even being founders (founders can easily be identified by the "Hero of the North" or "Guardian" forum titles under their names--like you can see on mine).
Spamming this thread with opinions on what you think should be done is absolutely pointless. Specially when you have no idea what is and what is not feasible technically.
The only people who have anything to fear about this are the ones who used the exploit. Just relax, take a breath and wait for them to finish. No catastrophic unrepairable damage was done.
Comments
yea well I kinda agree now.. a full wipe might be a solution xD but still it's sad that some people got pretty far with the game, but as you and some people say it may be for the best. Just refund Zen we spent and I'm fine, or atleast I have to make do
If this really is Open Beta why does it cost me $6 to respec? Don't you think it would be fairer to your customers to at least not charge us to respec while skills are still being balanced, or outright repaired/fixed?
A wipe is a very drastic thing and will likely cripple their game by losing them a lot of customers...paying customers. You may call people whiners who don't want to see the time they invested lost, but the fact of the matter is time is money. There is something called opportunity cost. If I can make $35 an hour, but instead choose to use that time to play a game I like, I am essentially losing that $35 in order to do something fun. If I invested 100 hours of game time to this point, that would be $3500 of time. Now you may not have a job and live off mom and dad, or you may work at a minimum wage job getting your $7 an hour so don't feel the cost as keenly, but not everyone is like that. And the people making $35 an hour are more likely to be the ones paying the money to support this game.
Aside from that however, there are other issues to take into consideration. For instance, all the pre-order packs they sold included early launch access. If they wipe at this point, they can't start everyone out at the same time unless they are prepared to refund the pack costs to all the customers that purchased them, or shut everyone out again so they can effectively re-launch the game and allow the pack owners to get their early access again, which means locking out the non pack customers for at least another 5 days.
Another point to consider is that, what happens if this isn't the only bug of this size to happen again? You expect them to wipe the game again down the road when another exploit pops up? Bugs and exploits happen all the time in MMOs. If you plan on wiping every time a big one pops up, your game is doomed. You have to come up with better solutions and alternatives. Sometimes you may even need to do drastic things, but a full on wipe is essentially a game restart. If your hand is forced to that, then you have admitted you don't know what you are doing and there is no stability or reason to trust it won't happen again. There are many people who don't want to play or more especially pay for that type of environment.
In an MMO, if you lose your momentum it will drastically affect the continued life of your game. It's happened countless times with many MMOs where they don't address some major issue fast enough, or they go too far in addressing an issue and from that point on the game is merely a hollow shell of what it once was. A wipe is as drastic an action as there is and I guarantee you if it happens, the repercussions will be fierce.
When they say AD gaines rolled back does this just mean the last day or 2? Because I heard ppl have been using the AH trick for awhile to get AD but it just recently blew up and lots started to do it. So the question is how far will they roll AD gains back?
The free market has spoken, cats are the new currency.
Currently I have 4 toons at level 50 and a roll back or wipe may be possible.
How does that make me feel !?
Simple actually. I entered this game knowing there was a Beta tag on the end of it. So <shrug>. Games like Rift and others had rollbacks almost weekly for a short spell during start up. It is what it is.
I am not going to say I would enjoy it (roll or wipe), but I will roll up the sleeves and dive back in.
Even in a wipe scenario there is little loss over all since Zen, etc is tied to the account. Maybe we can all look at this as a good thing. All the mistakes you made during the initial go through can be done right. By the time you ARE 60, a respec would not be necessary since you now have a better understanding of where you really wanted those skill sets to go.
During my work history I was involved in several New And Improved marketing schemes. What these normally meant was that the company found a way to make the same thing cheaper, and sadly, sometimes it cost the consumer more for the N&I label. Point here is that these people work for a specific company. They are going to do whatever they feel is best for the company. I would expect nothing less.
Twitter and forums still say 6 EST. Wait for it and roll with whatever decision they resolve is best. For us maybe, for them certainly.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
1- 20, 2- 35, 3- 18, 4- 20 min
Comments to -> the Book Binding
Here is a list of the unbalanced exploits we've seen so far, far from complete I'm sure
1. 1-60 in an hour using quest share
2. Profession Asset quest exploit
3. CW and GF one shotting bosses to get BiS gear and flood the market to screw up the economy and progression
4. AD explosion and Zen market flood
On a serious note, I just cannot see how there can be a good solution for PWE and all playing parties. It's damage control. I prefer a wipe/reset but those that have put forth their time and money legitimately should not be punished. I hope PWE has measures in place they can quickly and accurately assess the bad apples and laundering activities.
Actually, every transaction is logged in a database. Who it's from, and who it's to and when the transaction was made. They can run a script that finds every -AD transaction and then run another script on those accounts that recursively rolls back every step until every last AD is accounted for. If people sold an item on the AH to somebody who used the exploit, the person will get their item back. If they spent the AD on something, that item will get taken away.
Not a crisis and not game breaking, the sky isn't falling.
The most realistic comment i saw in last month. +1 totally agree
Sure, go ahead and do a full wipe, it'll be the best thing PWE could do for Trion!
What's that you say, this is a Cryptic game, not a Trion one? Certainly--but given their own F2P switchover is happening in just a couple of weeks, I'm sure they'd be thrilled by the additional incoming players who decide re-building from zero after a wipe isn't worth it. Especially when it costs legitimate players real money. (I'm presuming that PWE *could* restore the Zen of those they have records of actual payment transactions for, but those who earned it via legitimate AD trading would be out of luck--not to mention that I wouldn't have much confidence with even that, given my recent experience with their Offers/Surveys system, where they've refused to credit me with Zen earned despite buying the product from the offer).
As much as I hate it without 100% full wipe I'm going to dispute on my transactions with PayPal. 3 weeks of lost gameplay is nothing I was planning to stick with the game for years to come hence my support but this is turning into a fraud.
Let me help you with that...
*I
*realised
*existed
*I
*wouldn't
*their
*I
*I
*I
*don't
*two
*I've
*to
The favourite part of your post however was the highly creative use of spacing, that was really quite something!
Whatever the solution eventually is, I am sure it will be done after taking all factors into account.
^This, really. If anyone here honestly believes they don't have databases of all the transactions/mail sent in game, then you clearly don't have much experience with MMOs. Everything is filed and tracked to easily remedy these situations exactly.
As for balancing the economy, rather than relying on a wipe, the community should band together and sort this **** themselves. We're in control of the economy at the end of the day, we can easily fix it if we weren't too busy being dickheads.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
... and who knows how many many more ........ ITS SAD!
p.s
Why ppl are able to Need gear that is not their Class ??????
I paid $200 for the HoN Founder's Pack and have spent $150 on Zen. I anticipate spending quite a bit more.
I have spent every spare hour playing this game.
I am in favor of a reset.
I have to give PW some latitude here and hope they figure a way to penalize the exploiters and replace whatever damage was done without losing my character
I may actually shed a tear, believe me when I say, if you do dungeon dailies and you are a cleric, it aint an easy way to level, just saying, I would hate to repeat the work again leveling a cleric, I like her just the way she is now
I admit I made some mistakes over time that had I known about in-game would have made playing my character easier, but that's why I have other character slots
GL PW
I like creating characters
I purchased both Packs
I purchased quite a bit of ZEN
I am not asking for my money back
As long as I get the AD and ZEN I spent money on, reset the game.
I may be a bit upset at the 'wasted' time spent but to reset and fir the economy (and any bugs/exploits) I am for it.
Oh. ANd put that butoon back on top of the game screen and set it up to report bugs and exploits. Hopefulls hones players with report a bug or exploit as soon as he finds it (and help prevent this from happeneing in the future)
Just my 2AD (Before inflation)
All I see here is a lot of fearmongering from people who do not realize how these things work. Which is understandable. Please relax and let them finish their work.
I also see a lot of "founders" claiming this and that without even being founders (founders can easily be identified by the "Hero of the North" or "Guardian" forum titles under their names--like you can see on mine).
Spamming this thread with opinions on what you think should be done is absolutely pointless. Specially when you have no idea what is and what is not feasible technically.
The only people who have anything to fear about this are the ones who used the exploit. Just relax, take a breath and wait for them to finish. No catastrophic unrepairable damage was done.