The real problem of this game is that they made a tank class that is good only as dps. They made an aoe class but GF do aoe aswell. You can spec DPS and tank aswell. So why make a real tank? Use envy's build or something similar and enjoy your GF. The CC you can put is enough to be the first in damage taken and avoid damage for your teammates. I love a game were cleric don't only spam heal and tank has to move and think, but it's clear that is not working properly.
you mean Envy who has been banned for exploiting... yea. As for a real tank, they work and work well but you will come last in DPS and take 3 times the damage as everyone else, but most people want the pretty number's. Alot of player's who say they are tanking are running dps build's you just can't take the hits as well and a real tank has some really nice damage reducing abilities.
you mean Envy who has been banned for exploiting... yea. As for a real tank, they work and work well but you will come last in DPS and take 3 times the damage as everyone else, but most people want the pretty number's. Alot of player's who say they are tanking are running dps build's you just can't take the hits as well and a real tank has some really nice damage reducing abilities.
That seriously happened?
Use the <removed exploit lead-in> to interact with the auction vendor.
It's the community's perception of the GF not the class its self it's tricky to play well I have 3 60's Cleric, GF and CW all geared and its by far the hardest class to play well, maybe its too hard and need to be made eaisier, all GF skill's are about timing and how you use it as well as being in the right place, flipping mobs that Cone/line attack chain your daily's with marks for added threat and making sure your dps arn't splitting dps and pulling aggro off you. You have to worry about alot more than just pretty number's or OMG I just crit for 40 Million!! and now I pulled aggro and am dead.
Too many pie's in the air maybe the issue?
See I'm of the thoughts that many people leveled up to 60 doing some dungeons and ran with Guardians who couldn't ever keep threat. That in turn caused people to assume when they got to 60 that they were worthless, because Lord knows when I hit 60 and started running dungeons I heard a ton of, "Oh my god a tank who can hold threat! First time ever!"
As a result, they heard about this Dual Astral shield business and went for that instead.
It is perfectly viable for a Cleric/Tank to run dungeons. The trick is getting a group to run with you. That usually means a guild. I was guildless for weeks and basically couldn't get into T2's at all because no PUG would take me. I could consistently outperform, make the run easier, and be awesome and it didn't matter. There's a huge perception that GF's are bad based on all the experiences of so many bad GFs that the good ones have troubles as a result.
That said the game doesn't make it easy on us. There's many encounters where there's just WAY too much trash and it makes it very difficult to focus on the ones you want to keep threat on because your target capped abilities hit the targets you don't want to it. That is by far the hardest problem I've ran into going into T2s. Damage mitigation is fine with any Cleric who isn't trying to go DPS themselves and the one I run with really minimizes my potion usage. With Conquerer spec our DPS is enough that a good rogue should pull ahead of us in DMG but not ahead of our threat capability. When they get around to fixing the bugs and hopefully modifying the Mark mechanic to a more reliable state I don't think there'll be any issues at all.
They also need to remove the dual Astral Shield. It is a crutch and easy mode and whatever else you want to label it but the fact is it that most people don't care about such notions. The person who's exploiting a boss either through broken game mechanics or perching or otherwise doesn't care at all about whether or not what they are doing is "wrong" or "lame" or any other negative viewpoint. They just want the gear and they're going to go about the easiest way available to them. That encompasses A LOT of people. If they removal Astral Shield from providing twice it's benefit, I think we'll see a resurgence in the need for PUG Tanks.
you mean Envy who has been banned for exploiting... yea. As for a real tank, they work and work well but you will come last in DPS and take 3 times the damage as everyone else, but most people want the pretty number's. Alot of player's who say they are tanking are running dps build's you just can't take the hits as well and a real tank has some really nice damage reducing abilities.
You had me up until this post.
You're wrong. I can take the hits just as well as a Protection spec'd tank and keep threat on the highest DPS rogues/CWs/etc with no effort. The damage isn't about the numbers, it's about having enough damage to actually hold threat on quality DPS players.
So what say you about all the other GF & GWFs who are clearing T2 dungeons??????? They just lucky and happen to like have magical skills or something????? Herp derp.....learn to play. Thanks.
Just because it's possible doesn't mean it isn't sub-optimal. The point that's being conveyed here is that GFs and GWFs aren't necessary for higher tier content, and in comparison to the ideal team composition having a GF or a GWF is a huge hindrance.
Daint's the name. Pizza's my game.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
0
ranncoreMember, Moderators, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 2,508
edited May 2013
Last week GWF was the bum class.
This week it's GF.
Nothing to see here. Next week it will be a different class.
I guess it's too much to ask to replace endless boss adds with hp increment spawns of 2-6 containing mixtures of monsters that can and can't be thrown off cliffs.
Use the <removed exploit lead-in> to interact with the auction vendor.
I guess it's too much to ask to replace endless boss adds with hp increment spawns of 2-6 containing mixtures of monsters that can and can't be thrown off cliffs.
yes because in that case different bosses would need to have different mechanics as it is now cryptic made bosses are basically hyperfed ogres that spawn adds. tho, some of harder bosses arent that simple - they spawn more adds.
they really need to fix this tanking issue. Even townliee will leave this game if they dont fix it. They have to understand RIFT is going f2p and this is their chance to get members.
You can already play Rift free. You just need to download a app called Raptr and log in about 10 hours in the Rift trial. It gives you the full Rift game, some items, and 30 days to play. "Raptr is having a promotion where you can get the game, the Storm Legion expansion, and 30-day subscription. Only problem is that you have to run their desktop program and play the game so you can get the hours needed to claim the code for it." What I did was sit in the character select menu and minimized the screen.
I'm a GWF and a GF (lol I know), when I played my first dungeon on GF I noticed I wasn't peeling aggro off of the party that well. I assumed marking stuff and using the aoe shout mark was a type of Provoke (ffxi) or spike threat generator. It appears that it just makes threat easier for you to gain if you mark then start damaging the enemy. Then you throw on the fact that the mark vanish when you get hit by that mob with your shield down. You have to do a ton of actions to generate hate that way, while everyone else just did their thing not having to set up a stack of cards. Now imagine doing all of the mark and block + try to damage setup while dodging (without a dodge ability might I add) red aoe indicators. Even at 60 and 11k gear score, when I'm doing my solo farming thing and some people join in on a big HP enemy, aggro sometimes bounce back and forward between them and me. I know to keep up the mark and attack it while it's up. I spec for power/crit/recovery, and my encounters make it so I don't need to use the tab button to mark enemies all that much (at will Threatening rush is a small sprint attack that mark enemies surrounding the target + the big aoe shout mark and damage encounter). I do good damage with my aoe threat mark alone. Threat just seem unreliable.
GF and GWF just seemed too interesting, fun to play don't match efficiency though. Like how ninjas blink tanking took over in FFXI at one point, thief/ninjas was fun to play solo or small group tanking. Tank not getting hit > Tank getting hit and needing cures from support classes. Too much work for support class so they want the shadow decoy (blink/utsusemi) tanks that don't lose aggro because they rarely get hit staying high on the threat list, and they are easy to support. Just throw them haste, and a cure if they get hit between shadow casting. In FFXI Square eventually threw paladins a bone giving them more tools to outperform ninjas (which was not intended to be tanks) in efficiency. Right now it seem like CW punting adds and a Rogue on the boss are the ultimate setup. No downsides, fights are much easier. With Ninjas and Paladins Paladins at least had the most stability in holding aggro and such. I have a feeling GF and GWF will get tweaked, it is still labeled as beta, and even if it wasn't the developers don't want unused classes in their game I'm sure. Waste of a character creator slot.
Any FFXI players felt like GWF was like playing a Samurai? Love this class.
0
ussultimatumMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
So what say you about all the other GF & GWFs who are clearing T2 dungeons??????? They just lucky and happen to like have magical skills or something????? Herp derp.....learn to play. Thanks.
what we're saying is they have friends or guildmates willing to gimp themselves for their friends sake.
Comments
you mean Envy who has been banned for exploiting... yea. As for a real tank, they work and work well but you will come last in DPS and take 3 times the damage as everyone else, but most people want the pretty number's. Alot of player's who say they are tanking are running dps build's you just can't take the hits as well and a real tank has some really nice damage reducing abilities.
That seriously happened?
See I'm of the thoughts that many people leveled up to 60 doing some dungeons and ran with Guardians who couldn't ever keep threat. That in turn caused people to assume when they got to 60 that they were worthless, because Lord knows when I hit 60 and started running dungeons I heard a ton of, "Oh my god a tank who can hold threat! First time ever!"
As a result, they heard about this Dual Astral shield business and went for that instead.
It is perfectly viable for a Cleric/Tank to run dungeons. The trick is getting a group to run with you. That usually means a guild. I was guildless for weeks and basically couldn't get into T2's at all because no PUG would take me. I could consistently outperform, make the run easier, and be awesome and it didn't matter. There's a huge perception that GF's are bad based on all the experiences of so many bad GFs that the good ones have troubles as a result.
That said the game doesn't make it easy on us. There's many encounters where there's just WAY too much trash and it makes it very difficult to focus on the ones you want to keep threat on because your target capped abilities hit the targets you don't want to it. That is by far the hardest problem I've ran into going into T2s. Damage mitigation is fine with any Cleric who isn't trying to go DPS themselves and the one I run with really minimizes my potion usage. With Conquerer spec our DPS is enough that a good rogue should pull ahead of us in DMG but not ahead of our threat capability. When they get around to fixing the bugs and hopefully modifying the Mark mechanic to a more reliable state I don't think there'll be any issues at all.
They also need to remove the dual Astral Shield. It is a crutch and easy mode and whatever else you want to label it but the fact is it that most people don't care about such notions. The person who's exploiting a boss either through broken game mechanics or perching or otherwise doesn't care at all about whether or not what they are doing is "wrong" or "lame" or any other negative viewpoint. They just want the gear and they're going to go about the easiest way available to them. That encompasses A LOT of people. If they removal Astral Shield from providing twice it's benefit, I think we'll see a resurgence in the need for PUG Tanks.
You had me up until this post.
You're wrong. I can take the hits just as well as a Protection spec'd tank and keep threat on the highest DPS rogues/CWs/etc with no effort. The damage isn't about the numbers, it's about having enough damage to actually hold threat on quality DPS players.
Just because it's possible doesn't mean it isn't sub-optimal. The point that's being conveyed here is that GFs and GWFs aren't necessary for higher tier content, and in comparison to the ideal team composition having a GF or a GWF is a huge hindrance.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
This week it's GF.
Nothing to see here. Next week it will be a different class.
Technically since BW3 it has always been the GWF. Now people are also realising that the GF is just as useless compared to the TR/CW/DC groups...
yes because in that case different bosses would need to have different mechanics
and for gods sake, get rid of red circles already
You can already play Rift free. You just need to download a app called Raptr and log in about 10 hours in the Rift trial. It gives you the full Rift game, some items, and 30 days to play. "Raptr is having a promotion where you can get the game, the Storm Legion expansion, and 30-day subscription. Only problem is that you have to run their desktop program and play the game so you can get the hours needed to claim the code for it." What I did was sit in the character select menu and minimized the screen.
I'm a GWF and a GF (lol I know), when I played my first dungeon on GF I noticed I wasn't peeling aggro off of the party that well. I assumed marking stuff and using the aoe shout mark was a type of Provoke (ffxi) or spike threat generator. It appears that it just makes threat easier for you to gain if you mark then start damaging the enemy. Then you throw on the fact that the mark vanish when you get hit by that mob with your shield down. You have to do a ton of actions to generate hate that way, while everyone else just did their thing not having to set up a stack of cards. Now imagine doing all of the mark and block + try to damage setup while dodging (without a dodge ability might I add) red aoe indicators. Even at 60 and 11k gear score, when I'm doing my solo farming thing and some people join in on a big HP enemy, aggro sometimes bounce back and forward between them and me. I know to keep up the mark and attack it while it's up. I spec for power/crit/recovery, and my encounters make it so I don't need to use the tab button to mark enemies all that much (at will Threatening rush is a small sprint attack that mark enemies surrounding the target + the big aoe shout mark and damage encounter). I do good damage with my aoe threat mark alone. Threat just seem unreliable.
GF and GWF just seemed too interesting, fun to play don't match efficiency though. Like how ninjas blink tanking took over in FFXI at one point, thief/ninjas was fun to play solo or small group tanking. Tank not getting hit > Tank getting hit and needing cures from support classes. Too much work for support class so they want the shadow decoy (blink/utsusemi) tanks that don't lose aggro because they rarely get hit staying high on the threat list, and they are easy to support. Just throw them haste, and a cure if they get hit between shadow casting. In FFXI Square eventually threw paladins a bone giving them more tools to outperform ninjas (which was not intended to be tanks) in efficiency. Right now it seem like CW punting adds and a Rogue on the boss are the ultimate setup. No downsides, fights are much easier. With Ninjas and Paladins Paladins at least had the most stability in holding aggro and such. I have a feeling GF and GWF will get tweaked, it is still labeled as beta, and even if it wasn't the developers don't want unused classes in their game I'm sure. Waste of a character creator slot.
Any FFXI players felt like GWF was like playing a Samurai? Love this class.
In a game filled with adds, the AoE damage dealer should be several miles ahead of the single target damage dealer by sheer volume of targets alone.
So your statement actually seems to prove what others are saying.
what we're saying is they have friends or guildmates willing to gimp themselves for their friends sake.