test content
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc

Please Understand This Regarding Guardian Fighters.

2»

Comments

  • korangar665korangar665 Member Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    4 major problems with this combat system regarding bosses
    a) the casting system with no mana; makes the healer depend only on CD-s and with the type of heals available it's impossible to heal large DMG spikes fast when needed but makes the healer able to heal medium and small DMG for hours ( no mana management skills needed at all )
    b) there should really be some kind of targeting/focus system ( egz. F1-F5 ) to choose different party members to heal cause a lot of times the hardest part of healing is actually targeting the right player
    c) if you make a tanking class you should really make it so that a tank is CRUCIAL for any "serious" dungeon
    d) I know it's action based but you really should make a system for calculating the dodge chance or something because now everyone dodges better than a red-bull addicted hyperactive squirrel on speed. Even in P&P D&D there are calculations determining if you dodged or not
  • sanctumlolsanctumlol Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 382 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    Without counting the exploit a good number of guards took advantage of (and personally should be banned) the Stalwart set sucks. I picked up a helm early this morning and tested the set out after buying the other pieces for literally almost nothing off of the AH. In all honesty I could hardly tell a difference numbers wise and I am being 100% honest.
    The difference between timeless hero and stalwart is around 400+ dps per target hit; that's a lot. Your opinion doesn't change the truth.

    Just for clarification, the 2x power multiplier doesn't affect buffs (aka stalwart, cat, etc.).

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0Ar5bzJruCOoOdC11aG5nNnRDdE8xaEdhSVhLMHB0Nmc&output=html

    I don't understand why people complain considering there's maybe 2 people in the server who can out dps me (and they're rogues on single target dungeons).

    DPS GF is BY FAR the highest AoE dps. I peak 30k-40k dps in blackholes, and that doesn't drop down until the monsters start dying, a GWF can peak the same or slightly higher, but he can't mantain it.
  • healfdene84healfdene84 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    One issue is that everyone expects the GF to work like a standard WoW tank, and as stated by everyone else, the game does not support that playstyle.

    But what if everyone is actually missing the point of the GF? I have been looking at this for a bit (60 GF) and believe that this class is really intended to play a diferent role. If you really look at the abilities of the GF, they can excell at 2 things: AoE melee damage and crowd control. They are aslo good at a couple of others: Group Buffs, enemy debuff.

    With this in mind, what if the actual purpose of the GF is not a classic Tank, but a CC/support class.

    First is the "Mark" mechanic. It is not really a taunt, and only does marginal threat adds. BUT, if you spec into it a bit more, and combine it with the at will dash attack, it now marks multiple mobs, and reduces their damage against anyone but the GF and reduces their defenses. This mechanic combines with our abilities that are pure group buffs.

    The GF also has access to 2 AoE knockdowns (1 daily, 1 Encounder), 2 single target knockdowns (1 daily, 1 encounder) a stun (encounter) and the ability to spec their charge into a 100% interrupt (Tactician line). (that same spec line adds a stun to our highest damage encounder strike as well.)

    Going Tacticial does lower the GF's pure DPS numbers, but it greatly increases party surviveability. The interupt on our charge alone is amazing (~7 second recharge), and we are still able to put out alot of damage, espically against multiple adds.

    Admittedly it has been hard to test this as much as i would like, (most groups don't want to try anything new at all). But this path does seem more in line with how this game is designed, and takes more advantage ot the class abilities.

    The play style is a bit moree mobile than a classic tank, and relies on dash abilities to move around faster. It requires better situational awareness to shut down add abbilities as much as possible and you find yourself acting more in a bodyguard roll than as main tank.(though you can tank a single target if needed).

    Finally, this is intended to spark new ideas, and i might be full of HAMSTER. :)
    "A good plan would require fewer Muppets."
  • vaichanavaichana Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 91
    edited May 2013
    So, OP, you wouldn't take a GF to your dungeons because they slow down the clearing time? Seriously? Despite the fact that the GF has arguably the highest AoE dps potential at the moment? Yes, that makes total sense.

    Please, oh please people, stop commenting on classes you clearly know NOTHING about and spreading misinformation.
  • bugs55678bugs55678 Member Posts: 84 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    kaasdoek wrote: »
    Frist, even if Cryptic manages to fix aggro. i would still never let a Guardian Fighter join my team. The reason; they slows down the clearing time. Atm i run a fixed group of 2 CWs and 2 Rogues and one skilled Cleric. Pop Astral Shield and do your Donky Kong dodges inside the circle while casting Crowd Control. Meanwhile, Rogues bursting down target in a matter of seconds or minutes if it is a boss. Astral Shield makes everyone a tank basically

    The fundamental problem is the way bosses are designed. You can dodge ALL their attacks. Unlike other MMO games where a boss auto attacks a target for large amount of damage and throws tactical abilities on the side, this game is all about dodge and add management. It is a sacrifice Cryptic has made for this combat system (Yes Tera has it but imo, even Tetris gives a bigger Adrenaline rush than Tera's combat).

    Think about it from a game designer's point of view. You would like a full instant action MMO game, where battles are not boring or scripted and demand from the player to have split second reactions. So what do you do? Make encounters with alot of AOE and Cleave abilities. But that is not enough, so let's add pack of monster every 20 seconds. While this sounds no different from other MMO games. (WoW's Nax Gluth encounter for example; Forces the raid to kite and deal with adds and aoe damage) it does PLAY different than other MMO games due the nature of the combat system. And this difference of play style impacts the healer role the most. There is no simple targetting system, everything has to be done fast and in the heat of the moment. So it only make sense that the Cryptic team designs Astral Shield. An ability that not only heals but mitigates a significant amount of damage. This ability reliefs a lot of stress from the healer, because it shifts the survival responsibilities to the other players. it is their job now to manage stand in the circle and get healed.

    So with that said. What can be done? Changing/nerfing Astral Shield will make this game different and maybe harder. I said it in an other topic, but the end game PvE is designed around 3 things. Repel mechanics, Arcane singualrity and Astral shield. So i don't see this happening. Changing the Guardian Fighter is probably the only way to go. But fixing threat ? I don't think that will solve anything regarding groups wanting a Guardian Fighter in team.

    It is a long post, but food for thought. I am not a Guardian Fighter my self, but i do feel bad declining to invite them in my parties. And i think this should be fixed and prioritized as well. There is NO POINT releasing new content untill this issue is settled.

    Tanks have a lot to offer, And i have never been declined into a party and I'm a level 60 GF. I four manned epic lair of the mad dragon. And 3 manned epic idris, epic spellplagued caverns, epic crypts, and epic wolf den. It was just Me(the tank) and a rogue and a cleric.

    Tell me again how GFs are irrellivant?
  • alecstormalecstorm Member Posts: 142 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    Make a tank class then ask them to build dps? Every class got 3 specs, everyone should be viable. Plus, 5 classes are not enough. We are talking about game bases. Ok, it's beta, but people is spending money and the game has major issues that are not even discussed properly.
    My 2 cents abt GF: is viable, and i like to be a different type of tank (not the inamovable wall of WOW), but basically you have to be a bruiser. Good damage (conqueror spec), tankiness, CC, aoe CC.
Sign In or Register to comment.