There is no standard, and even if there were you would still have people who would give 1 stars despite the standard. That is just how mass rating works. There is no FIX for that.
Very true. Not so sure how I feel about doing away with the rating system entirely, as it would make it even harder to separate the wheat from the chaff. Then again, there's a lot of chaff on top of the wheat right now...
Very true. Not so sure how I feel about doing away with the rating system entirely, as it would make it even harder to separate the wheat from the chaff. Then again, there's a lot of chaff on top of the wheat right now...
You don't remove it, you don't fight it, you don't even "fix" it. What they need to fix is the tagging system and the search functionality.
Do you crave a good old fashioned dungeon crawl? One where the dungeon tells it's own story? The Dungeon Delves campaign is just for you! Start with my first release: NW-DQF4T7QYH Any cave can lead to adventure!
Do you crave a good old fashioned dungeon crawl? One where the dungeon tells it's own story? The Dungeon Delves campaign is just for you! Start with my first release: NW-DQF4T7QYH Any cave can lead to adventure!
Ever since I started playing in beta weekend 2 I thought that the foundry rewards should not be an item. The reward can't be determined by the author. It's too easy to exploit that way. It shouldn't be determined by the size of the map or the number of monsters because that could also be exploited.
What about a foundry currency? Make the reward be some type of currency in a quantity that is determined by the average completion time of the quest. Have minimum and maximum values and throw out any spikes from the calculations so people sitting for hours can't increase the average. It would take many people working together to raise the average significantly. Once they start trying to reap the reward of artificially raising the average the time and reward will diminish. Also have diminishing returns down to maybe 50% for repeating the same quest in the same day should help prevent this issue.
That currency could be AD, Bars, or some new foundry currency to be used for unique/useful items. Offering something significant outside of the daily quest rewards should remove the 1 star ratings people are giving for loot. Still will have the problem with people being jerks though. =P
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apocrs1980Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, SilverstarsPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
I just got hit heavy with a round of 1 star rating trolls all with similar names with 0 in place of o I believe it's an attempted to down vote me which I don't really see a point in doing since I'm not on the main Catalog page anymore. Just a heads up.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
The Cragsteep Crypt - BETA Ravenloft Look for@Apocrs1980 or visit the main page here or Ravenloft here
0
drakedge2Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I just got hit heavy with a round of 1 star rating trolls all with similar names with 0 in place of o I believe it's an attempted to down vote me which I don't really see a point in doing since I'm not on the main Catalog page anymore. Just a heads up.
So lame. Really why? I mean what purpose does it serve?
A story driven quest, with a fun and challenging amount of combat, that takes you into the world of Planescape, carefully hand crafted by me.
0
apocrs1980Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, SilverstarsPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
I believe no other purpose then an attempt to get your foundry quest removed. I don't understand why as I haven't argued or upset anyone as far as I can tell, in fact I have always been quite civil in my replies trying to put myself in the other persons shoes. But recently I have been on the other end of some really foul and nasty comments that were never provoked. Go figure I'm as clueless as everyone else.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
The Cragsteep Crypt - BETA Ravenloft Look for@Apocrs1980 or visit the main page here or Ravenloft here
0
drakedge2Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I believe no other purpose then an attempt to get your foundry quest removed. I don't understand why as I haven't argued or upset anyone as far as I can tell, in fact I have always been quite civil in my replies trying to put myself in the other persons shoes. But recently I have been on the other end of some really foul and nasty comments that were never provoked. Go figure I'm as clueless as everyone else.
It is likely the same people that ignore your warning that the crypt is for a group not solo.
Some people enjoy doing things like that to others. It makes them feel better to tear down someone else. Unfortunately there isn't much we can do about it because as soon as you put in a system to combat "troll" reviews you open all kinds of other exploitable avenues up. Someone on the tips and tricks thread had said their biggest suggestion to a new Foundry Author was to simply have a thick skin, and after seeing what happened back in CoX, I have to agree. It will suck logging in and find that happened but sooner or later it will average back out.
Do you crave a good old fashioned dungeon crawl? One where the dungeon tells it's own story? The Dungeon Delves campaign is just for you! Start with my first release: NW-DQF4T7QYH Any cave can lead to adventure!
As of earlier today, Bill's Tavern has 138 one star reviews, or approximately 1% of all ratings. Of those I would estimate based on reading comments, those are due to:
50% gear related
25% trolling/ being silly
25% just genuinely don't like it
I actually ended up speaking to one guy who gave me a one star with a commment saying he loved it. His explanation: he was high. So you really don't know where people are coming from when they play your stuffs.
Anyway, in terms of solutions, I like this idea:
1) Need to make Foundry viable alternative for endgame progression. Tokens seem to address this. Also, foundry masters could craft one of a kind epic gears that have a miniscule chance of dropping and can be unlocked for use with tokens. Or tokens could be exchanged for other currency.
2) Fix empty loot chests
3) Either give authors control over loot drops or include an official disclaimer in the rating tab how the author is not responsible for lewts
4) Also maybe a % based chance to also drop a resource node at end of qualified quests
Star ratings and reviews for foundry missions are about as useful as surveys on the internet. People can put whatever the hell they want in there.
I recently uninstalled a toolbar from my dad's web browser, and it sent me to an exit survey. I told them I was a 12 year old girl with a PhD who earned $100,000+ per year, and told them I was uninstalling because "toolbars suck". The only bit of truthiness in that statement is that toolbars typically suck.
It can be difficult enough to have your foundry projects discovered in the list, since you can't sort the list very well. The fact that the listings are based on star ratings that have no real value (and often times very little *virtual* value) just makes things worse. Giving foundry authors some tags to put on their missions so people can find the kind they want would help, as well as being able to filter out the kinds you *don't* want. Basically, the search engine for foundry projects needs to be much more robust, because we're not even out of open beta yet and it's already very difficult to go through the list of foundry missions to find the ones you might be interested in, especially if they're not particularly mainstream or highly rated.
0
kamaliiciousMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 0Arc User
So lame. Really why? I mean what purpose does it serve?
You get one troll, he brings a friend whom he's told what to say or uses an alt.
It works even better when they complain about something that's not in the quest such as spelling errors when the entire quest was run through a spellchecker, or when they complain the quest is in the style the campaign description says it will be.
I believe no other purpose then an attempt to get your foundry quest removed. I don't understand why as I haven't argued or upset anyone as far as I can tell, in fact I have always been quite civil in my replies trying to put myself in the other persons shoes. But recently I have been on the other end of some really foul and nasty comments that were never provoked. Go figure I'm as clueless as everyone else.
There's silly kids ready to do that, just cause they're allowed to.
Honestly, the best solution is to make longer quests. If it takes an hour to run a quest then most trolls aren't likely to put that kind of effort into running it, plus it makes for a better quest anyway.
kamaliiciousMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
One good way to catch these people is introducing a small but deliberate change in things. In another game, I purposely changed the name of a script for an event between open beta and release and changed the functionality slightly (eg: the script worked but used a purposely different color vfx than what it was supposed to be).
When the complaint about my campaign inevitably came up that x was broken on release, I asked for the filename of the script for this event. They posted the filename and a screenshot of the "broken" part. Naturally the filename was the beta version filename of the script and the screenshot had the wrong color vfx. My changes elsewhere showed the person had overwritten the 1.0 files with the open beta files so they could complain about my 1.0 version being broken.
Since I've modded for years, I have a long history of dealing with this type of thing. To everyone's amusement I once got a troll to admit in a forum he though his wife would sleep with people for money, with the troll publicly agreeing to every logical step I'd taken to get to that conclusion because he didn't know where I was going with things. Then there was the time I got the same troll to call me a d-bag over 10,000 times in a forum (thank goodness for copy/paste and the wordcount feature of word processors ).
You get one troll, he brings a friend whom he's told what to say or uses an alt.
It works even better when they complain about something that's not in the quest such as spelling errors when the entire quest was run through a spellchecker, or when they complain the quest is in the style the campaign description says it will be.
Your map has spelling errors, I can attest to that lol
My quests have a number of 3 stars, and even a 2 star from someone complaining about chest loot. I never claimed my quest was the best ever. I said what it was. My last campaign for another game even includes in it's description that it's experimental and many people wouldn't like it.
On a different subject I think foundry quests should offer better rewards or more incentive to try new ones.
The fact people do the "fastest and easiest" foundry for their daily is quite poor. I've done some really good and well designed foundry quests that take no more then 30-60 minutes and are really well done, well written and that I truly enjoyed.
The tipping system is nice, I use it to tip the author, and give honest reviews. If I didn't like a quest I simply don't review it / don't bother giving negative review.
I think there should be a foundry currency like others stated that rewards those with gear for doing the better and harder ones.
My 2c.
Profile name / Ingame handle: @FearGXxD
Shard: Mindflayer
Characters: Grim, Rune, Holy, Ruin - If the name isn't the @FearGXxD handle, it's not me!
On a different subject I think foundry quests should offer better rewards or more incentive to try new ones.
The fact people do the "fastest and easiest" foundry for their daily is quite poor. I've done some really good and well designed foundry quests that take no more then 30-60 minutes and are really well done, well written and that I truly enjoyed.
The tipping system is nice, I use it to tip the author, and give honest reviews. If I didn't like a quest I simply don't review it / don't bother giving negative review.
I think there should be a foundry currency like others stated that rewards those with gear for doing the better and harder ones.
My 2c.
I think the thing will always be that you can't force people to enjoy foundry quests. So the problem is also that there is an incentive for people who don't like UGC to run through Foundry maps. You could make a terrific story driven campaign with excellent combat but if the player is just doing his daily to get back to the PvP he enjoys, then you're unlikely to win him over.
I'm leaning towards a Foundry token system where the tokens could be used to buy things like cosmetic outfits for both players and authors to use in their quests. Something along those lines.
If you got x numbers of tokens apropriate to your level when you finish a foundry, and if you only got them once pr foundry pr day.
Then i guess it could work, but there has to be something in it for high lvls.
If you got x numbers of tokens apropriate to your level when you finish a foundry, and if you only got them once pr foundry pr day.
Then i guess it could work, but there has to be something in it for high lvls.
What if it was only cosmetic items? Think TF2 hats.
It's going to be a tough thing to "fix" either way. There will probably be a few things tried.
Dr. Herc trilogy NWS-DHDPDVTMA
0
kerlaaMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
I have yet to hand out a 1or2 star review. 1 star imo is a blank field with nothing in it but a single door that you have to cross thru to win and wouldn't you know it the door is 20meters below ground lvl.
I have to admit that the few mission (ashamed alittle that it is so few) have been very well done. So far I have run a few 3, many 4s and one 5 star.
I think the thing will always be that you can't force people to enjoy foundry quests. So the problem is also that there is an incentive for people who don't like UGC to run through Foundry maps. You could make a terrific story driven campaign with excellent combat but if the player is just doing his daily to get back to the PvP he enjoys, then you're unlikely to win him over.
I'm leaning towards a Foundry token system where the tokens could be used to buy things like cosmetic outfits for both players and authors to use in their quests. Something along those lines.
Yeah true, the average joe who PvPs or does dungeons won't take it seriously.
I agree a token system rewarding costumes or other useful items would be really cool!
Profile name / Ingame handle: @FearGXxD
Shard: Mindflayer
Characters: Grim, Rune, Holy, Ruin - If the name isn't the @FearGXxD handle, it's not me!
0
drakedge2Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
I am leaning to a foundry token system as well. Limit the tokens to the quests that qualify for the daily to help limit exploits. And/Or tie the foundry token into the daily quest itself.
Yeah true, the average joe who PvPs or does dungeons won't take it seriously.
I agree a token system rewarding costumes or other useful items would be really cool!
I disagree.. I really don't want to see the foundry become the new "Wow JP Grind". I can understand having the daily reward the player with something since it is already in game and can be tied in to end game. I do not want players repeatedly running my content over and over in some never ending grind to get a new "epic hat" though.
Do you crave a good old fashioned dungeon crawl? One where the dungeon tells it's own story? The Dungeon Delves campaign is just for you! Start with my first release: NW-DQF4T7QYH Any cave can lead to adventure!
well if you limit the tokens to X tokens pr foundry and only the first time you play one will award it, then it would encurrage people to try other foundrys aswell.
I disagree.. I really don't want to see the foundry become the new "Wow JP Grind". I can understand having the daily reward the player with something since it is already in game and can be tied in to end game. I do not want players repeatedly running my content over and over in some never ending grind to get a new "epic hat" though.
True.
As the above poster suggests, making it apart of the daily, or making it a daily token could remedy this.
EDIT: But this would not defeat the problem of daily farmers thus good foundries remain untouched.
Profile name / Ingame handle: @FearGXxD
Shard: Mindflayer
Characters: Grim, Rune, Holy, Ruin - If the name isn't the @FearGXxD handle, it's not me!
Player didn't just run WoW instances for the phat lewt and XP, people actually enjoy a challenge and playing through interesting content. Make good UGC and people will enjoy playing them.
Comments
Very true. Not so sure how I feel about doing away with the rating system entirely, as it would make it even harder to separate the wheat from the chaff. Then again, there's a lot of chaff on top of the wheat right now...
You don't remove it, you don't fight it, you don't even "fix" it. What they need to fix is the tagging system and the search functionality.
Right after music and sound fx, right? >.>
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?251722-The-Audio-issue-(UPDATE)
Guess that makes it next on the list?
I'm happier than a kid on Christmas morning.
What about a foundry currency? Make the reward be some type of currency in a quantity that is determined by the average completion time of the quest. Have minimum and maximum values and throw out any spikes from the calculations so people sitting for hours can't increase the average. It would take many people working together to raise the average significantly. Once they start trying to reap the reward of artificially raising the average the time and reward will diminish. Also have diminishing returns down to maybe 50% for repeating the same quest in the same day should help prevent this issue.
That currency could be AD, Bars, or some new foundry currency to be used for unique/useful items. Offering something significant outside of the daily quest rewards should remove the 1 star ratings people are giving for loot. Still will have the problem with people being jerks though. =P
Ravenloft
Look for@Apocrs1980 or visit the main page here or Ravenloft here
So lame. Really why? I mean what purpose does it serve?
Ravenloft
Look for@Apocrs1980 or visit the main page here or Ravenloft here
It is likely the same people that ignore your warning that the crypt is for a group not solo.
50% gear related
25% trolling/ being silly
25% just genuinely don't like it
I actually ended up speaking to one guy who gave me a one star with a commment saying he loved it. His explanation: he was high. So you really don't know where people are coming from when they play your stuffs.
Anyway, in terms of solutions, I like this idea:
1) Need to make Foundry viable alternative for endgame progression. Tokens seem to address this. Also, foundry masters could craft one of a kind epic gears that have a miniscule chance of dropping and can be unlocked for use with tokens. Or tokens could be exchanged for other currency.
2) Fix empty loot chests
3) Either give authors control over loot drops or include an official disclaimer in the rating tab how the author is not responsible for lewts
4) Also maybe a % based chance to also drop a resource node at end of qualified quests
Bill's Tavern | The 27th Level | Secret Agent 34
I recently uninstalled a toolbar from my dad's web browser, and it sent me to an exit survey. I told them I was a 12 year old girl with a PhD who earned $100,000+ per year, and told them I was uninstalling because "toolbars suck". The only bit of truthiness in that statement is that toolbars typically suck.
It can be difficult enough to have your foundry projects discovered in the list, since you can't sort the list very well. The fact that the listings are based on star ratings that have no real value (and often times very little *virtual* value) just makes things worse. Giving foundry authors some tags to put on their missions so people can find the kind they want would help, as well as being able to filter out the kinds you *don't* want. Basically, the search engine for foundry projects needs to be much more robust, because we're not even out of open beta yet and it's already very difficult to go through the list of foundry missions to find the ones you might be interested in, especially if they're not particularly mainstream or highly rated.
It works even better when they complain about something that's not in the quest such as spelling errors when the entire quest was run through a spellchecker, or when they complain the quest is in the style the campaign description says it will be.
There's silly kids ready to do that, just cause they're allowed to.
Author: @BardicKnowledge
Q1: Prologue - The Lady and the Worm NW-DPQPJSVTH
Tags: #Challenge, #Story, #Solo, #Group
When the complaint about my campaign inevitably came up that x was broken on release, I asked for the filename of the script for this event. They posted the filename and a screenshot of the "broken" part. Naturally the filename was the beta version filename of the script and the screenshot had the wrong color vfx. My changes elsewhere showed the person had overwritten the 1.0 files with the open beta files so they could complain about my 1.0 version being broken.
Since I've modded for years, I have a long history of dealing with this type of thing. To everyone's amusement I once got a troll to admit in a forum he though his wife would sleep with people for money, with the troll publicly agreeing to every logical step I'd taken to get to that conclusion because he didn't know where I was going with things. Then there was the time I got the same troll to call me a d-bag over 10,000 times in a forum (thank goodness for copy/paste and the wordcount feature of word processors
Your map has spelling errors, I can attest to that lol
Edit:
http://i.imgur.com/sFr9cwg.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/dmAvXrT.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/wrDrLeF.jpg
What language is your spell checker set to?
Oh wait I forgot, your map is just too perfect for anyone to legitimately give it a bad review. Everyone is out to get you.
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-c7G_1AN3b4g/UZZA5suu0iI/AAAAAAAABa4/hahkZFWVA5Q/s1600/forum3.jpg
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-k7C9yISV_bk/UZZAxDE5IlI/AAAAAAAABao/R_KJVWemBg8/s1600/forum1.jpg
My quests have a number of 3 stars, and even a 2 star from someone complaining about chest loot. I never claimed my quest was the best ever. I said what it was. My last campaign for another game even includes in it's description that it's experimental and many people wouldn't like it.
The fact people do the "fastest and easiest" foundry for their daily is quite poor. I've done some really good and well designed foundry quests that take no more then 30-60 minutes and are really well done, well written and that I truly enjoyed.
The tipping system is nice, I use it to tip the author, and give honest reviews. If I didn't like a quest I simply don't review it / don't bother giving negative review.
I think there should be a foundry currency like others stated that rewards those with gear for doing the better and harder ones.
My 2c.
Shard: Mindflayer
Characters: Grim, Rune, Holy, Ruin - If the name isn't the @FearGXxD handle, it's not me!
I think the thing will always be that you can't force people to enjoy foundry quests. So the problem is also that there is an incentive for people who don't like UGC to run through Foundry maps. You could make a terrific story driven campaign with excellent combat but if the player is just doing his daily to get back to the PvP he enjoys, then you're unlikely to win him over.
I'm leaning towards a Foundry token system where the tokens could be used to buy things like cosmetic outfits for both players and authors to use in their quests. Something along those lines.
Then i guess it could work, but there has to be something in it for high lvls.
What if it was only cosmetic items? Think TF2 hats.
It's going to be a tough thing to "fix" either way. There will probably be a few things tried.
I have to admit that the few mission (ashamed alittle that it is so few) have been very well done. So far I have run a few 3, many 4s and one 5 star.
Yeah true, the average joe who PvPs or does dungeons won't take it seriously.
I agree a token system rewarding costumes or other useful items would be really cool!
Shard: Mindflayer
Characters: Grim, Rune, Holy, Ruin - If the name isn't the @FearGXxD handle, it's not me!
I disagree.. I really don't want to see the foundry become the new "Wow JP Grind". I can understand having the daily reward the player with something since it is already in game and can be tied in to end game. I do not want players repeatedly running my content over and over in some never ending grind to get a new "epic hat" though.
True.
As the above poster suggests, making it apart of the daily, or making it a daily token could remedy this.
EDIT: But this would not defeat the problem of daily farmers thus good foundries remain untouched.
Shard: Mindflayer
Characters: Grim, Rune, Holy, Ruin - If the name isn't the @FearGXxD handle, it's not me!