Dudes the game just came out relax. This is nothing like wow but making the references any ways. Those who played vanilla will remember 90% of the bosses just had adds or aoes/attacks to move out of lol. Chill out I'm sure they will add more interesting mechanics. I have a 60 cw in t2 working on a rogue 42 and a gwf 38 and I've yet to be bored of this game. Also to the "spoiled WoW kids" or whatever was said it's true too many people are like "OOOOOOOOOO BUT WOW DOES DIS AND DAT THEY MECHANICS ARE SO MUCH BETTERZZZ" yea....and it took awhile until they developed good mechanics. Even then MC and BWL were not that amazing, AQ and Nax brought the really interesting ones and they came out way later. I know this isn't raiding so it reinforces what I said the 10 mans and 5 mans in vanilla had really plain mechanics. To those who may say yea but it's 2013 now bro wtf, well if they took Move here at X stack of X debuff run to X portal with X mob on you, you'd still be QQing. Have faith in them they will hopefully add more in-depth boss fights.
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smackzor123Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 29Arc User
edited May 2013
Fck vanilla wow its just terrible they are making stuff that was 8 years ago in another MMO. Didnt they learn anything ? PEOPLE DO NOT WANT ENDLESS ADDS FIGHTS period. Just fcking remove the endless spawn of adds or make it slower that people can manage to kill it. Instead of having to kite stuff forever or drop em in the ledges.
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maxpoweryoMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 20Arc User
edited May 2013
Comon dude, even the most basic bosses from vanilla wow were a lot more entertaining and complex then anything in NW. Some of them were the boring spank&tank type - thats true, but many of them were not. General Drakkiisath, Eranikus, Baron, Immol'thar, Godfrey, Thermaplugg, Princess Theradras - all totally different from each other. Im not even going to mention raid bosses. Here every single boss is exactly the same: spawn million adds + lots of red floor. Im farming T2 on my cleric too and im getting sick of kiting 20 adds and dodging aoe on every freaking boss in every freaking dungeon.
This is not a bug, a balance issue, or simple lack of content due to time constraints.
This is a very basic design flaw.
Bosses are weak, stupid, and lack any interesting abilities, instead, they bring more trash to for us to clean up.
This should never have come up in the first place, and if they did not have any actual boss abilities though up and coded, they should not have gone live.
I'm only level 46 and 38 on my Cleric and Guardian Fighter respectively but I have found dungeons post Mad Dragon to be challenging but in a good way, when we finally down the boss after 2 or 3 wipes It feels rewarding, sadly that is all you get because the rewards for the normal dungeons are garbage, the seal gear is not good compared to the difficulty of getting it and the dropped gear is just one single piece for a group of 5 so changes of getting anything are low making it in my mind not worth the rather big effort required.
So to me the problem is reward, dungeons after mad dragon are really hard content for the average PUG (which I like) but rewards are not worth the effort.
Never did mad dragon, the dungeon after that i completed without a tank (couple wizards, couple rogues, cleric).
Not hard, but fairly challenging (died once due to falling down from a rock that was not there), adds were still annoying.
It's not about how hard the fights are, it's how entertaining they are, and most people find endless add spawns not entertaining.
But yeah, rewards also suck.
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daeanorMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 13Arc User
edited May 2013
You can't blame inadequate imagination on boss encounters on beta. Beta is for fixing bugs and balance. Do you really think they are going to retro these dungeons after release to make them more interesting? Heck, this open beta is going to be long enough that everyone in it will be level 60 by release. How many do you think will want to re-roll and go through the whole thing again? I can't even imagine running through the *same* content with another class. There simply isn't enough variety for the game to remain engaging. I suspect I'll get one character to 60, then move to another game.
And besides being tediously repetitive, it's annoying. The longer the boss stays up, the more adds you get. If ignore the boss and take time to kill the adds, the next wave is on you before you are finished, and meanwhile the boss isn't be whittled down. You need mad DPS, and a group that is very disciplined and coordinated ... but we don't have the basic MMO tools like being able to mark mobs, etc. And add to all that the fact that you don't even need be bothered. Dungeon rewards are meh at best, and you can skip them in your leveling without much penalty (and at level 60, what is your motivation? Are they going to fall back on the inane end-game concept where you farm the same encounters over and over to get a full set of rare gear that just makes the next farming session easier, while locking out the ones who can't be bothered?). They need to be re-thought altogether.
So to me the problem is reward, dungeons after mad dragon are really hard content for the average PUG (which I like) but rewards are not worth the effort.
The gear from dungeons pre-"epic" or whatever people call it nowadays are absolute ****. Cool, I won myself a nice "blue" sword at level 36 that has 75 more recovery but 15 less damage and 60 less power than my current lvl 32 sword. Niiiiice! I just hit 46 last night and I have only gotten one upgrade from any dungeon I have ran. The rest comes from soloing. The seal gear is trash. Even the **** that I can't even wear due to level restriction sucks more than the stuff I currently use.
Also, to stick to the topic: Ya, the add on every fight is a garbage design. D3 had more thought involved with their fights and that is saying quite a bit since that game was absolute trash. I don't mind getting swarmed with adds if the group has the powers to handle them. Ironically, most situations go as followed:
Adds spawn: TR and CW don't get off boss. Adds beat our DC's *** into the ground. DC starts kitting. I try peeling adds(I'm a GF). TR and CW get aggro on boss and can't maintain the aggro. I spam my taunts and try going back and forth between two groups of adds on two different people and the boss. We get overwhelmed and after two attempts people say "I only brought two potions, I have no kits, I gotta go!" and that is that....1 hour down the drain.
BUT THAT ZEN MARKET SURE IS SWEET!
Edit: Anyone saying "lol its a beta gif it time guyz!" are either new to mmo's, new to betas, or simply giving too much credit to companies. Beta is a time for fixing broken **** and getting a mass public evaluation of their game. When you have multiple posts a day screaming about how <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> the adds are, how worthless dungeon rewards are, how there are a handful of feats for each class not working, the stupidly high cost of everything on the market, and other things that get brought up multiple times a day every single day....you expect them to fix that stuff or address the issues. But they fix the Zen store, they fix the mail system, and they don't reply to anything.
Gza the Genius - Elf Guardian Fighter
the Rza - dog companion
Fun story time: I was running through that level 25 dungeon (one with the huge bandit guy) and it wasn't until halfway through the fight that I realized I was getting aggroed constantly. I play a TR, by the way, so I knew I was doing damage. But I wasn't hitting EVERYTHING. So I started to get annoyed with our tank until I looked up at the minimap and realized our tank AND our healer both got locked out of the fight.
I was with a great fighter in a room with about 30 adds, just jumping out of the way and poking the boss every few rolls. Around the ten-minute mark of this, our tank said, "I would have died three more times by now." I laughed. This went on for another five minutes before my cleric companion went down for good, and I went down as well.
TL;DR: I rolled around a boss dodging adds. GG.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Through wisdom, people find strength. Through strength, power. Through power, truth of character.
Such is the cycle, and so it shall remain.
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dinoenMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
I would rather fight a strong boss for once, like we actually fighing the boss. But most of the case, would be either kill the boss asap, you dont even know what the boss can do, or a slow fight when one or 2 teamate on boss, the other just kite and hold the adds.
Why don't we have a boss that difficult to fight alone with his power and hp, not the amount of adds.
Why don't we have a boss that difficult to fight alone with his power and hp, not the amount of adds.
A fight requires a script. For now, their script is essentially what was described earlier. Either Script A(spawns adds at a certain % of health) or Script B(timed adds). They don't have to script anything. They have their choices already filled out. The mob is set and the mob already has AI programmed to randomly do the abilities based on that mob. The mobs that are spawned are based on the dungeon/map area you are currently doing. It is fairly simple to understand.
Gza the Genius - Elf Guardian Fighter
the Rza - dog companion
Mindflayer
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tweeter83Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
There seems to be a bug. I was fighting a boss and it spawned adds only once. Nm, it was because a level 60 killed it faster than the script would spawn more.
You would think that given that every dungeon boss and skirmish has exactly the same mechanics that people would have realised now that they might have to do a little more than just mindlessly zerg the boss and on occasion deal with the adds. It's quite depressing how dumb random groups are in this game.
You would think, but no. For some reason people think burning down the boss faster is best. Very odd. Killing the adds is fairly easy. Not sure why some people refuse to try.
You would think that doing the same fight over and over would grow on you, instead I find myself just holding down my Cleave attack button while watching tv and letting my healer companion heal me. Even if it takes 20 minutes, I progress!
Comments
This is not a bug, a balance issue, or simple lack of content due to time constraints.
This is a very basic design flaw.
Bosses are weak, stupid, and lack any interesting abilities, instead, they bring more trash to for us to clean up.
This should never have come up in the first place, and if they did not have any actual boss abilities though up and coded, they should not have gone live.
So to me the problem is reward, dungeons after mad dragon are really hard content for the average PUG (which I like) but rewards are not worth the effort.
Not hard, but fairly challenging (died once due to falling down from a rock that was not there), adds were still annoying.
It's not about how hard the fights are, it's how entertaining they are, and most people find endless add spawns not entertaining.
But yeah, rewards also suck.
And besides being tediously repetitive, it's annoying. The longer the boss stays up, the more adds you get. If ignore the boss and take time to kill the adds, the next wave is on you before you are finished, and meanwhile the boss isn't be whittled down. You need mad DPS, and a group that is very disciplined and coordinated ... but we don't have the basic MMO tools like being able to mark mobs, etc. And add to all that the fact that you don't even need be bothered. Dungeon rewards are meh at best, and you can skip them in your leveling without much penalty (and at level 60, what is your motivation? Are they going to fall back on the inane end-game concept where you farm the same encounters over and over to get a full set of rare gear that just makes the next farming session easier, while locking out the ones who can't be bothered?). They need to be re-thought altogether.
The gear from dungeons pre-"epic" or whatever people call it nowadays are absolute ****. Cool, I won myself a nice "blue" sword at level 36 that has 75 more recovery but 15 less damage and 60 less power than my current lvl 32 sword. Niiiiice! I just hit 46 last night and I have only gotten one upgrade from any dungeon I have ran. The rest comes from soloing. The seal gear is trash. Even the **** that I can't even wear due to level restriction sucks more than the stuff I currently use.
Also, to stick to the topic: Ya, the add on every fight is a garbage design. D3 had more thought involved with their fights and that is saying quite a bit since that game was absolute trash. I don't mind getting swarmed with adds if the group has the powers to handle them. Ironically, most situations go as followed:
Adds spawn: TR and CW don't get off boss. Adds beat our DC's *** into the ground. DC starts kitting. I try peeling adds(I'm a GF). TR and CW get aggro on boss and can't maintain the aggro. I spam my taunts and try going back and forth between two groups of adds on two different people and the boss. We get overwhelmed and after two attempts people say "I only brought two potions, I have no kits, I gotta go!" and that is that....1 hour down the drain.
BUT THAT ZEN MARKET SURE IS SWEET!
Edit: Anyone saying "lol its a beta gif it time guyz!" are either new to mmo's, new to betas, or simply giving too much credit to companies. Beta is a time for fixing broken **** and getting a mass public evaluation of their game. When you have multiple posts a day screaming about how <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> the adds are, how worthless dungeon rewards are, how there are a handful of feats for each class not working, the stupidly high cost of everything on the market, and other things that get brought up multiple times a day every single day....you expect them to fix that stuff or address the issues. But they fix the Zen store, they fix the mail system, and they don't reply to anything.
the Rza - dog companion
Mindflayer
I was with a great fighter in a room with about 30 adds, just jumping out of the way and poking the boss every few rolls. Around the ten-minute mark of this, our tank said, "I would have died three more times by now." I laughed. This went on for another five minutes before my cleric companion went down for good, and I went down as well.
TL;DR: I rolled around a boss dodging adds. GG.
Through wisdom, people find strength. Through strength, power. Through power, truth of character.
Such is the cycle, and so it shall remain.
Why don't we have a boss that difficult to fight alone with his power and hp, not the amount of adds.
A fight requires a script. For now, their script is essentially what was described earlier. Either Script A(spawns adds at a certain % of health) or Script B(timed adds). They don't have to script anything. They have their choices already filled out. The mob is set and the mob already has AI programmed to randomly do the abilities based on that mob. The mobs that are spawned are based on the dungeon/map area you are currently doing. It is fairly simple to understand.
the Rza - dog companion
Mindflayer
You would think, but no. For some reason people think burning down the boss faster is best. Very odd. Killing the adds is fairly easy. Not sure why some people refuse to try.
In Soviet Russia adds spawn you! (and then more adds)
Order of the Silver Dragons - Dragon Shard