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How to fairly fix rogues
kato009
Member Posts: 21 Arc User
Simply remove their ability to do ranged attacks in PvP. Make their ranged attack become a melee attack.
Now before all you "I only want to play rogues because they are overpowered and take less skill than any other class to play" people start flaming the idea, look at it for its actual merits....
Rogues are an assassin type class. They are meant to sneak up (stealth), Disable (several forms including stun, slow etc), and kill (extreme melee burst damage) their opponents. Their ranged attack is overkill. Its bad enough having to try and stay away from a rogue because they stealth up to you, jump on you and run you down with higher movement, but then on top of all that they do crazy ranged damage, more than my cleric does with ranged attacks.
So if you think about it with your eyes and brains open, it really does make sense. Rogues do not need nor warrant ranged attacks in pvp.
Now before all you "I only want to play rogues because they are overpowered and take less skill than any other class to play" people start flaming the idea, look at it for its actual merits....
Rogues are an assassin type class. They are meant to sneak up (stealth), Disable (several forms including stun, slow etc), and kill (extreme melee burst damage) their opponents. Their ranged attack is overkill. Its bad enough having to try and stay away from a rogue because they stealth up to you, jump on you and run you down with higher movement, but then on top of all that they do crazy ranged damage, more than my cleric does with ranged attacks.
So if you think about it with your eyes and brains open, it really does make sense. Rogues do not need nor warrant ranged attacks in pvp.
Post edited by kato009 on
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Also, as said before, we'll take your Astral Shields being able to stack, too. Sound good? No?
Sorry then, we're going to keep throwing our knives at you.
And assassins never throw stuff, right?
/endthread
Recap: Players have thousands of hitpoints, even at 31 currently for me (just over 7000 hitpoints) I belive on a full 12 knife toss it would do about 2000 (I think) but I can do thousands more in same time in melee. Melee is far more effective, so rogues are not a ranged class.
But if you take away one thing, the whiners will want more. Give and inch, take a mile.
Bring all the other classes up to our level so they have as much fun as us. Don't pull us down to theirs so we have to enjoy the game as little as they seem to.
this has to be the most ignorant quote i have seen so far on these forums...
Thats just it though.
It's nothing like that at all.
TR's Are so easy to kill. I rolled a CW and Obliterated one. Simply by knowing what he's guna try and do.
Problem is people are not learning fast enough. They see big numbers on them and they are like "**** op that TR must have killed me all on his own."
If you work properly as a team no class is op. just the synergy of all the classes put together.
CW - hold the target and aoe
GF - Harass the enemy and requires little healing support.
GWF - stun lock the healer/Target and aoe
TR - DPS and burst down the target or harass a target.
Hlr - Heals & can cause a large problem when played well.
Separate these and you get
CW - Can hold for a short burst but will get overrun very quickly. Can try an escape but will most likely get caught. Good ones can **** someone in seconds.
GF - Can last for ages but struggles to kill more then 1-2 targets on his own. Has a very viable option to retreat easily.
GWF - Can take down someone fairly quick but will get overrun from 2 good people. Can retreat easily.
TR - Can easily take on 2 people and burst them down just as easily and quickly as they can kill the TR.
Hlr - Can handle itself for a long time vs multiple people. But only when played properly. Dies very quickly vs TRs due to lack of dodging and mobility.
Fact is if you nerf TR's, you are guna get the forums FLOODED with people wanting to nerf all the other classes because of lack of dps. If you increase dps on the other classes you are guna get SHHHHHAT ON by good teams.
Here's a tip - if you know TR's are a problem how about you guys start focusing them more. I see people ignoring me all the time and going straight for the healer when knowing full well I'm lurking behind theirs.
Sometimes the healer isn't the one you should focus first when you have a squishy TR running around the place.
Get your CW to hold him and GF + GWF locking him down also get the CW to push the others away without pushing the TR.
Seriously people get a grip and start playing properly instead of expecting your "expert previous knowledge" to carry you.
It's a new game - learn how to play it.
I'm not saying 'forces' in a way that means it's mandatory.. chill out. I'm just spitballing the idea of a positional damage that Burglars get in LOTRO, which I think is much closer to my idea of how a rogue class should operate. The positional damage would start at something like a 15% bonus, and be able to be modified by feats. IMO the 'combat advantage' idea seems a little weird for a Rogue. It may work for other melee classes, perhaps implemented when they full off a stun, daze or whatever which triggers combat advantage.. but for Rogues, it just seems like a last minute add-on.
As far as PvP, I haven't even stepped in, I'm still leveling my Rogue. I'm just getting sick of everyone complaining that Rogues need to be nerfed, and I'm trying to do my part to talk some sense into morons who think that the best option is to drag a good class down into the mud, instead of raising the other classes up. Replying to OP's suggestion, I can deal with our ranged knives being cut, or even split into a different path which trades off melee DPS for range. Just sayin'.
And agreed with e11z's comments on learning to play the class properly.
Sure. But first nerf CW ridiculous damage output for a "control" class, and make Cleric's blue shield less game-breaking. Then you can take away out only means of killing enemies who run away. Your cleric isn't a DPS class, so it shouldn't be doing more damage than us in any situation. Sort of like how we have extremely low defense, and can't heal ourselves in any situation.
Stop posting on our forums please.
I am not high enough level to aquire this skill but from reading the summary of it, it does not sound like it does devastating damage to me, nor does it sound as if it is out of line of the cleric class, but alas I admit I have not used it yet.
Of course you want to keep everything you have and still say you need more. OP classes never admit it.
First of all, learn some grammar, all those u's and ur's make me immediately doubt your intelligence.
Second of all, you were correct, you do not know me. And yet you presume to know my skill level, my reason for posting, claim I am whining and crying and angry, that I dont know my class or the rogue class...... whew that's alot of assumptions.
You might want to get your crystal ball checked because it is broken.
My skill level, from reactions I get from other players, is well above average, so wrong there.
My reason for posting is to offer a possible solution to a very obvious problem, so wrong there.
Some rogue did not "own" me, I am posting because of the obvious imbalance that needs addressing, so wrong there.
You say I make no suggestions, but my post IS a suggestion, so wrong there.
Being angry in particular... There is no anger in my thread, just a statement and a suggestion, so wrong there.
Assuming someone was permanently killing me, wrong there.
Do you see a pattern here ?
Yes, I do agree with one thing you posted, that PvP has alot to do with player skill, tactics and group make-up. BUT that really has nothing to do with my post. My post is not asking to limit one rogue per pvp round, I am simply stating that I do believe that rogues should not possess ranged attacks in pvp since their role is to be melee assassins.
Automatically jumping to conclusions is part of the problem of testers. It is not your job to assume anything. Your job is to test the game and give feedback in an intelligent and articulate manner. And as my father always told me, if you are not of the solution then you are part of the problem.
So use a little intelligence and give actual feedback and solutions, not assumptions.
Thank You.
If the ranged attack is so awful then losing it should not be a problem ?!?!
First of all, The reason for the rogue forums is to discuss the rogue class. Not just those that play the class but those who play with and against them as well. Clerics ONLY attacks are ranged attacks and spells. So even hinting that we should do HAMSTER damage with ranged is stupid almost as dumb as claiming you cant heal yourselves in any situation. POTIONS are self healers and if you run any dungeon you know to use them because in this game the "Healer" class is not really a healer class. It is more of a hybrid class that has a little healing and more agro generation than the rest of the group combined.
That's a possibility. Another possibility is that you're just wrong.
Rogues need ranged attacks, because all of our primary damage skills require an enemy to be standing still. They also have huge wind-up animations.
Your attacks don't matter. You're a cleric. You have your role and you're mad that you can't do everything else. Clerics should by far be the least effective strikes of all of the classes. And guess what? They are. If the class is poorly made, then that's a problem for the developers.
gg
Secondly, you said that your skill level is above average. Then there is a high chance that you got owned or outsmarted by skillful rogues. And unfortunately for you, since they find that you are an easy target, they always take you down first.
Thirdly, in pvp, skills, gears and team play are really important. Do not expect a player with greens going to own another with purples. A well organized team which means they have a all-round team with the holy trinity and/or have better team play will pawn the worse one regardless your skill level, remember one man wont win the match. For example, a smart team will always protect and destroy anyone touching their key players like clerics or control wizards. If you are getting destroyed by rogues which mean your teammates do not take care of you enough or simply you wander too far from them or they are just too weak to protect you.
I don't think anyone forces you to play PvP. Personally, I like it a lot. And I've played D&D for about 20 years, on computer and tabletop. People have different tastes, but you seem to be one of the people, who are happy to sacrifice other people's fun as long as it doesn't affect you.