First of all, learn some grammar, all those u's and ur's make me immediately doubt your intelligence.
Second of all, you were correct, you do not know me. And yet you presume to know my skill level, my reason for posting, claim I am whining and crying and angry, that I dont know my class or the rogue class...... whew that's alot of assumptions.
You might want to get your crystal ball checked because it is broken.
My skill level, from reactions I get from other players, is well above average, so wrong there.
My reason for posting is to offer a possible solution to a very obvious problem, so wrong there.
Some rogue did not "own" me, I am posting because of the obvious imbalance that needs addressing, so wrong there.
You say I make no suggestions, but my post IS a suggestion, so wrong there.
Being angry in particular... There is no anger in my thread, just a statement and a suggestion, so wrong there.
Assuming someone was permanently killing me, wrong there.
Do you see a pattern here ?
Yes, I do agree with one thing you posted, that PvP has alot to do with player skill, tactics and group make-up. BUT that really has nothing to do with my post. My post is not asking to limit one rogue per pvp round, I am simply stating that I do believe that rogues should not possess ranged attacks in pvp since their role is to be melee assassins.
Automatically jumping to conclusions is part of the problem of testers. It is not your job to assume anything. Your job is to test the game and give feedback in an intelligent and articulate manner. And as my father always told me, if you are not of the solution then you are part of the problem.
So use a little intelligence and give actual feedback and solutions, not assumptions.
Thank You.
You right, my grammar is none of the best, the fact English isn't my native language could excuse me a bit.
I can see, you try to act with perspective, yet you are pointing out my grammar that ain't got anything to do with the thread theme.
You are telling you are not being "angry", yet.(yes I really do like this word) your post is full of attacks. You talking about my inteligence(it's not your job to be assuming anything right?
I've been to psychologist when I was a kid, he told me my inteligence is way over the average and since I am still young, my inteligence is increasing, not decreasing.. so wrong there.
You are right saying that a rogue is meant to be meelee aassassin. It is, 99% of abilities is melee, I would say it's pretty straightforward that rogues in NWO are designed as you claim, an melee assassins. Yet any rogue in any rpg is having some kind of ranged attack, more like utility as it's usually very weak in the terms of damage. Historical content is describing assassins or rogues as a silent killers, not as melee only fighters. Any article about assassins/rogues that is mentioning their weaponary is always talking about ranged weapons, such as shuriken/throwing daggers etc.. so wrong there.
I do use my inteligence to say my opinion, which I did and which I have a right for and I actually gave some feedback.
If you didn't understand it, my feedback was saying that rogue in PvP isn't OP at all, that it is balanced well.
Don't be confusing feedback with criticism, that's two very different things.While criticism means to judge things most likely(not only), feedback is basicaly anything that has been said about the concrete theme, includes your feeling/opinion about it which I did.
I've said it before, I'll say it again. Delete PvP. We don't need all this nonsense in a DnD game.
No need to delete PvP but for god's sake don't let it touch anything else in the game.
Really whines from PvP all fall into
1. What do you mean he can move ? Make him stand still so I can kill him
2. What do you mean his class can actually win against mine ? That's not right.
And the catch all.
3. I lost against this guy he can't be better than me, so he must be cheating.
Your attacks don't matter. You're a cleric. You have your role and you're mad that you can't do everything else. Clerics should by far be the least effective strikes of all of the classes. And guess what? They are. If the class is poorly made, then that's a problem for the developers.
gg
That is where you are wrong, Sir. A cleric's role does not seem to be healing or they would make us good at it. As it is healing is the weakest I have ever seen in an MMO. Neverwinter's Cleric seems to be more of a hybrid role.
First, you admit you are not level 60 so that you do not access some of cleric key powers to make them shine.
Secondly, you said that your skill level is above average. Then there is a high chance that you got owned or outsmarted by skillful rogues. And unfortunately for you, since they find that you are an easy target, they always take you down first.
Thirdly, in pvp, skills, gears and team play are really important. Do not expect a player with greens going to own another with purples. A well organized team which means they have a all-round team with the holy trinity and/or have better team play will pawn the worse one regardless your skill level, remember one man wont win the match. For example, a smart team will always protect and destroy anyone touching their key players like clerics or control wizards. If you are getting destroyed by rogues which mean your teammates do not take care of you enough or simply you wander too far from them or they are just too weak to protect you.
Yes, I agree the 50+ skills I have yet to try because I am currently level 48.
But I do not understand why you all think I am some angry malcontent that keeps getting destroyed by rogues. This is simply not the case. Actually unless I am being hit by a wizard, I do not fear rogues. A simple rogue, unless he is extremely good, can not take me out 1 v 1. Between my healing, my extreme constant movement and my backpeddling to team-mates the only class that gives me huge problems is the wizard, but that is a totally different conversation.
My only point is that Rogues do not need ranged attacks. I dont care if they do 1 point of dmg each or 1000. Point I am making is they do not need it. I know nobody likes to get hit with the nerf stick and nobody enjoys losing anything but face it, ranged attacks on a sneaky burst melee class doesnt fit.
Why do people ALWAYS ask to nerf other classes instead of buffing their own? And if the OP is dying to a TR's ranged attack, he did something wrong beforehand to get into that position. The TR's ranged attack is fairly weak.
That is where you are wrong, Sir. A cleric's role does not seem to be healing or they would make us good at it. As it is healing is the weakest I have ever seen in an MMO. Neverwinter's Cleric seems to be more of a hybrid role.
Whenever I play my DC in a group, pvp or pve, I always load up my healing skills/abilities. Always. DC isn't the traditional MMORPG healer but its not bad in that role. If you're not going to heal on your DC, then who is?
Sounds to me like he got hit butt kicked in melee range rooted the tr and tryed to run away with 5-10% hp left and the tr simply threw 4-6 dagger's to take him out. Out of all our skill's the only thing the throwing dagger's is useful for is people who are already dead that we are to lazy to use a teleport attack on.
Yes, I agree the 50+ skills I have yet to try because I am currently level 48.
But I do not understand why you all think I am some angry malcontent that keeps getting destroyed by rogues. This is simply not the case. Actually unless I am being hit by a wizard, I do not fear rogues. A simple rogue, unless he is extremely good, can not take me out 1 v 1. Between my healing, my extreme constant movement and my backpeddling to team-mates the only class that gives me huge problems is the wizard, but that is a totally different conversation.
My only point is that Rogues do not need ranged attacks. I dont care if they do 1 point of dmg each or 1000. Point I am making is they do not need it. I know nobody likes to get hit with the nerf stick and nobody enjoys losing anything but face it, ranged attacks on a sneaky burst melee class doesnt fit.
Ok, I posted it in my previous post I will say it again. Nobody said that NWO rogues are sneaky burst melee class, nobody but you. Devs didn't say that, otherwise they would not add ranged abilities to it, that's pretty obvious, isn't it?
I don't know where did you take an idea that rogue is strictly melee, I even checked wiki before and as I mentioned, any article talking rogue/assassin weaponary mentions ranged weapons.
So, here's devs who obviously don't mean rogue to be strictly melee, than there's historical content saying it's not.
It's pretty much only you still saying it, no matter devs, history or whatever. So now you act like a child who wants his cookie but doesn't get it. You tunnel vision to "ONLY MELEE BLABLA" listening to nothing that has been said in this discussion. You just talk same things over and over, you dont even discuss, just blindly pushing your opinion(wrong opinion) in front of you like a shield, blocking anything ppl saying in here with it. So, why do you make a thread which is meant to discuss thing, while you can't discuss it?
It is nothing more than your opinion. If you have nothing else to say, stop repeating it and just quit.
Another thing. You are saying rogue can't beat you 1v1 thanks to ... backpedal.
If I didn't judge you as an amateur for your ideas before, I definitely do for backpedaling now.
OP is obviously butt hurt and has hasn't played a rogue before. Its doubtful that 12 daggers can kill a single player (not that I haven't played but 1 match, cause its boring as <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>) but that the daggers on a 3 second recharge to refill it and it takes 36 seconds to max it out from 0 daggers back to 12. Its useful to kill off weak NPC (where I use it more) running towards you but its faster to do several thousand K to a boss type NPC in several seconds in melee then stand back in range and chuck daggers at it.
Recap: Players have thousands of hitpoints, even at 31 currently for me (just over 7000 hitpoints) I belive on a full 12 knife toss it would do about 2000 (I think) but I can do thousands more in same time in melee. Melee is far more effective, so rogues are not a ranged class.
I'm happy your lowbie experience proves its okay. At 60, on my gwf i've been crit with ranged daggers for over 5k crit. So 5 ranged daggers that crit would do 25k damage, which would kill most people. Hmm 5 ranged attacks on a melee dominate class killing someone, that's balance? Maybe i'm the only person that goes up against geared players.
0
kiojikMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 14Arc User
edited May 2013
As a level 60 Cleric myself, the least of my problems are TR ranged dagger attacks.
PvP wise they need to fix:
AFK Maggots
Make the system replace players when they are kicked
Remove Righteouness - (Let us all at least start on even footing)
People knee-jerk nerf when they loose, which snowballz into other problems.
5k crit by a flying dagger??? You absolutely need better gears, that is just sad. As a lvl 60 rogue, I never get a crit over 2k from flying dagger from other rogues.
You say 4v5 is impossible? Cool story bro.
0
saintnewageMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 9Arc User
edited May 2013
The knife throwing doesn't do too much damage... It can knock you off your horse in pvp.. but that's about it.
Look at it this way. Every class has a few movies that give them an advantage in battle. Control Wizards get ranged attacks at a MUCH farther distance, and the ability to stun you while doing damage to you over time. The Great Weapon Fighter can do massive damage up close, while being about to take damage and heal himself with one of his moves. The Guardian Fighter can hit multiple people at once, along with being about to block any attack that comes his way with his shield. Along with having amazing defense. Clerics can heal multiple people, along with themselves, and have ranged attacks. And a Rogue has his stealth, along with having high critical chance and mid-long range throwing knives. A rogue is very squishy. They can not take a lot of damage like a Tank or GWF. So, without the ranged attack, how can they have a chance? Wizards are squishy, but can push people back. GWF have no range but can take damage and hit hard. You see where I am going?
Rogues cant take damage so they need that ranged attack. But I know what you are saying. "Well put more Defense and Hit Points on your Rogue!" This would solve the problem, but thats not playing to the Rogues advantage points. Rogues need to get into the battle, do a massive hit, and get out. So, they need that ranged attack for when they need to have some distance from someone.
"But the rogue is an assassin type class. They don't need range!" Well, not all assassins just use melee. A ninja is a type of assassin, and they have many ranged attacks.
So, look at it from that perspective. The rogue needs the ranged attack because of their squishy nature. If you have a problem with that, you can suck this rogue's big left toe, because you are SOL.
Comments
You right, my grammar is none of the best, the fact English isn't my native language could excuse me a bit.
I can see, you try to act with perspective, yet you are pointing out my grammar that ain't got anything to do with the thread theme.
You are telling you are not being "angry", yet.(yes I really do like this word) your post is full of attacks. You talking about my inteligence(it's not your job to be assuming anything right?
I've been to psychologist when I was a kid, he told me my inteligence is way over the average and since I am still young, my inteligence is increasing, not decreasing.. so wrong there.
You are right saying that a rogue is meant to be meelee aassassin. It is, 99% of abilities is melee, I would say it's pretty straightforward that rogues in NWO are designed as you claim, an melee assassins. Yet any rogue in any rpg is having some kind of ranged attack, more like utility as it's usually very weak in the terms of damage. Historical content is describing assassins or rogues as a silent killers, not as melee only fighters. Any article about assassins/rogues that is mentioning their weaponary is always talking about ranged weapons, such as shuriken/throwing daggers etc.. so wrong there.
I do use my inteligence to say my opinion, which I did and which I have a right for and I actually gave some feedback.
If you didn't understand it, my feedback was saying that rogue in PvP isn't OP at all, that it is balanced well.
Don't be confusing feedback with criticism, that's two very different things.While criticism means to judge things most likely(not only), feedback is basicaly anything that has been said about the concrete theme, includes your feeling/opinion about it which I did.
Thank you.
/end thread
No need to delete PvP but for god's sake don't let it touch anything else in the game.
Really whines from PvP all fall into
1. What do you mean he can move ? Make him stand still so I can kill him
2. What do you mean his class can actually win against mine ? That's not right.
And the catch all.
3. I lost against this guy he can't be better than me, so he must be cheating.
Edit: OP is a 2 and 3.
That is where you are wrong, Sir. A cleric's role does not seem to be healing or they would make us good at it. As it is healing is the weakest I have ever seen in an MMO. Neverwinter's Cleric seems to be more of a hybrid role.
Yes, I agree the 50+ skills I have yet to try because I am currently level 48.
But I do not understand why you all think I am some angry malcontent that keeps getting destroyed by rogues. This is simply not the case. Actually unless I am being hit by a wizard, I do not fear rogues. A simple rogue, unless he is extremely good, can not take me out 1 v 1. Between my healing, my extreme constant movement and my backpeddling to team-mates the only class that gives me huge problems is the wizard, but that is a totally different conversation.
My only point is that Rogues do not need ranged attacks. I dont care if they do 1 point of dmg each or 1000. Point I am making is they do not need it. I know nobody likes to get hit with the nerf stick and nobody enjoys losing anything but face it, ranged attacks on a sneaky burst melee class doesnt fit.
Whenever I play my DC in a group, pvp or pve, I always load up my healing skills/abilities. Always. DC isn't the traditional MMORPG healer but its not bad in that role. If you're not going to heal on your DC, then who is?
This is an MMO first, a "DnD" game second. In fact, it's only tangentially a DnD game.
Ok, I posted it in my previous post I will say it again. Nobody said that NWO rogues are sneaky burst melee class, nobody but you. Devs didn't say that, otherwise they would not add ranged abilities to it, that's pretty obvious, isn't it?
I don't know where did you take an idea that rogue is strictly melee, I even checked wiki before and as I mentioned, any article talking rogue/assassin weaponary mentions ranged weapons.
So, here's devs who obviously don't mean rogue to be strictly melee, than there's historical content saying it's not.
It's pretty much only you still saying it, no matter devs, history or whatever. So now you act like a child who wants his cookie but doesn't get it. You tunnel vision to "ONLY MELEE BLABLA" listening to nothing that has been said in this discussion. You just talk same things over and over, you dont even discuss, just blindly pushing your opinion(wrong opinion) in front of you like a shield, blocking anything ppl saying in here with it. So, why do you make a thread which is meant to discuss thing, while you can't discuss it?
It is nothing more than your opinion. If you have nothing else to say, stop repeating it and just quit.
Another thing. You are saying rogue can't beat you 1v1 thanks to ... backpedal.
If I didn't judge you as an amateur for your ideas before, I definitely do for backpedaling now.
I'm happy your lowbie experience proves its okay. At 60, on my gwf i've been crit with ranged daggers for over 5k crit. So 5 ranged daggers that crit would do 25k damage, which would kill most people. Hmm 5 ranged attacks on a melee dominate class killing someone, that's balance? Maybe i'm the only person that goes up against geared players.
PvP wise they need to fix:
AFK Maggots
Make the system replace players when they are kicked
Remove Righteouness - (Let us all at least start on even footing)
People knee-jerk nerf when they loose, which snowballz into other problems.
Rogues cant take damage so they need that ranged attack. But I know what you are saying. "Well put more Defense and Hit Points on your Rogue!" This would solve the problem, but thats not playing to the Rogues advantage points. Rogues need to get into the battle, do a massive hit, and get out. So, they need that ranged attack for when they need to have some distance from someone.
"But the rogue is an assassin type class. They don't need range!" Well, not all assassins just use melee. A ninja is a type of assassin, and they have many ranged attacks.
So, look at it from that perspective. The rogue needs the ranged attack because of their squishy nature. If you have a problem with that, you can suck this rogue's big left toe, because you are SOL.