you've given up because you have no argument or evidence. You have just spouted your opinion to make a point you erroneously believe to be fact. That's not how debate works, that's howling at the moon.
You are trying to hard. Game is in open beta. Move along.
0
Options
tek83Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Be astounded all you like. Only Cryptic are calling it open beta. None of th industry insider articles classify it as anything other than launched. None of the large mmo and gamer sites are classifying it as anything but launched. The company who owns Cryptic, who own the rights to the game, who have paid for the development of it don't classify it as open beta, they class it as live. They make the distinction on their games page. it distinctly shows live and NOT open beta and given that it's their property that's why it's a valid observation. Cryptic can call it a cabbage for all i care, the people who own the game call it what it is.
I would say that only the DEVELOPERS of a game can say if it's beta or not, not the people who own them. You pretty much said it yourself, Cryptic is calling it open beta, and I'm pretty sure they are the ones working on it, so who can trump that?
I'd like to point out....PWE/Cryptic ....GAVE....HotN packages to the media.
Allow me to introduce a new vocabulary word.
Ethics.
This is exactly why I dont trust reviews from any site that includes advertisements of the very games they're reviewing. Conflict of interest. At my company, we are not allowed to accept anything over 50.00 USD including dinners or anything else.
Why doesnt he review the ame without that package? ....because he knows that he couldnt honestly give a good review if he was playing that way, and even says as much in the article.
But...that being said...
He is completely right about the "open Beta" and the only ones it fools are the fanbois and suckers....the intended audience of F2P games.
He isn't reviewing the game though. He's just talking about the beta/release issue and not even confining it to just NWO but saying how it's common practice now.There review comes out next month.
0
Options
pressexpose1Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
That's why there's a huge graphic saying "Open Beta" one their main home page. Yeah, that makes sense.
That's what Cryptic choose to say it is. I'm done with you. You display no ability to reason and your argument, such as it is, is circular and going nowhere. believe what you wish, but don't attempt to shove your opinion down the throats of educated people who can see different.
0
Options
tek83Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
That's what Cryptic choose to say it is. I'm done with you. You display no ability to reason and your argument, such as it is, is circular and going nowhere. believe what you wish, but don't attempt to shove your opinion down the throats of educated people who can see different.
That's what Cryptic choose to say it is. I'm done with you. You display no ability to reason and your argument, such as it is, is circular and going nowhere. believe what you wish, but don't attempt to shove your opinion down the throats of educated people who can see different.
So why did you bother replying at all, if you knew what I was doing in the first place? I need to shove it down your throats becasue you are too **** stupid to digest it yourselves.
Game has major flaws. Needs work. It's in Beta. The money you gave(or didn't give) was a donation to the devs to help them create a final product. End of story.
You're going to believe 1 tiny little icon, over the fact that OPEN BETA is plastered over everything else, and the fact that there hasn't been an official statement saying the game has been released.
Some of the people today just astound me.
great another one that doesnt believe that the game has actually been released yet :=)
According to some, we are playing a game that has not been realeased. But once they officially release it, all of its problems will go away, and it will be much much better game. And everything else will be totally different.
Why on earth do people keep on saying 'its not released yet', when everyone know basically nothing will change except its prefix and it wont be 'officially' named open beta any longer?
Please, enlighten us. Show us the way, so everyone who is not aware of how awesome those changes will be (once the game goes "live") can eagerly anticipate NW release like you guys do. Please, do it.
Do you even know that there are some f2p mmos that have been in open beta for years? Hell, some even closed while still being in open beta, lol. And why exactly do you support such a shady way of doing business, when we (players) dont really benefit from it, at all?
MMO companies started using open beta tag as a shield, and apparently people are ok with it
I would say that only the DEVELOPERS of a game can say if it's beta or not, not the people who own them. You pretty much said it yourself, Cryptic is calling it open beta, and I'm pretty sure they are the ones working on it, so who can trump that?
I'd suggest that the people who own the property and pay the wages can pretty much do as they wish and the minions working for them can say what they want. Everyone in the industry knows this game is launched, that's why many more articles are appearing about it. But if fanboys wish to use open beta as a means to dismiss the things wrong with a game that's their prerogative, it does a disservice to the developers however because discussing and hashing out the problems is exactly what a beta was intended to do.
Dismissing problems by saying 'it's free' and 'it's beta' simply don't offer solutions to either developer or player. THAT'S why the term should not be applied, because too many are using it as an excuse for poor execution.
I don't even think people should argue what stage of development the game is in. It's in open beta if PW says it's in open beta. It's the newest trend to "soft launch" a game and say you are in open beta, while fixing things, adding things, and collecting money to try to get some return on the money you've been spending on development and advertising. It is what it is, really, they could call it open alpha if they wanted to and it wouldn't really change anything.
I say, if you have a problem with this, then address the specific problem instead of trying to get PW to change some label they put on the game's development stage and then argue semantics on the forums. For example, I have a problem with skills and feats being changed around and not offering that class a free respec. The fact that some skills and feats need to be re worked and balanced because it's still in a beta phase, I understand. I don't like having to pay money for something that gets changed. At the end of the day, I'll suck it up and deal with it, but at least that's an argument about a specific way that paying for beta effects my enjoyment of the game.
TLDR: stop arguing semantics and make more accurate points.
I would say that only the DEVELOPERS of a game can say if it's beta or not, not the people who own them. You pretty much said it yourself, Cryptic is calling it open beta, and I'm pretty sure they are the ones working on it, so who can trump that?
Wow that is amazing! So if you make it you get to choose what it is and what everyone should think it is? I didn't know that, thank you. I'll just be right back, have some gold nuggets I need to start making in the toilet.
0
Options
pressexpose1Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
He isn't reviewing the game though. He's just talking about the beta/release issue and not even confining it to just NWO but saying how it's common practice now.There review comes out next month.
Oh, I know. But I also know how game review sites work. ...let's call it insider knowledge and leave it at that.
I just have issues with MMORPG and a few others that are beholden to game publishers and wouldnt think of giving a poor review of a game. Think back to the last time you read a bad review come from a site like MMORPG. There's a reason you cant recall one.
0
Options
tek83Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
great another one that doesnt believe that the game has actually been released yet :=)
According to some, we are playing a game that has not been realeased. But once they officially release it, all of its problems will go away, and it will be much much better game. And everything else will be totally different.
Why on earth do people keep on saying 'its not released yet', when everyone know basically nothing will change except its prefix and it wont be 'officially' named open beta any longer?
Please, enlighten us. Show us the way, so everyone who is not aware of how awesome those changes will be (once the game goes "live") can eagerly anticipate NW release like you guys do. Please, do it.
Do you even know that there are some f2p mmos that have been in open beta for years? Hell, some even closed while still being in open beta, lol. And why exactly do you support such a shady way of doing business, when we (players) dont really benefit from it, at all?
MMO companies started using open beta tag as a shield, and apparently people are ok with it
Not sure if trolling...
I'd explain it, but I really don't think you'd be able to comprehend. Let me dumb it down:
Beta = Expect bugs, follow up with reports, etc.
Release = Minimal bugs, people have every right to be pissed off with issues.
I think its funny that people think that when a MMO is "launched" that it is finished and all is well. Have any of you people that are saying this is Open Beta because of all the issues ever even seen any other MMOs launchs? Not a single MMO in the last 9 years launched flawlessly. Every single one had huge bug and exploit issues WHEN THEY LAUNCHED. Things that were not caught in closed or "open beta". So all of you arguing the fact that its not released because of all the bugs and exploits should sit back down and go research all the MMOs that have ever launched and see the masses of hotfixes and patches that had to be done months after they released.
All the arguments of saying "it's open beta!" and "it's launched!" are ignoring the point, I think.
"Open beta" no longer means what it once did. It's become a marketing term for a lot of companies/games, so that they can "release" the product out, and start making money off of it, while still maintaining that the game is in "beta state" to explain away the rampant bugs and unfinished content.
So yes, technically it's still in "open beta" because Cryptic says so. However, as the goalposts of what makes a beta a beta have been shuffled around so much in recent years, it's easy to SAY it's still in beta while charging people for the game/items in the game, and moving forward as though it were launched, bug-fixing and adding content as you go.
i can see both arguments pretty clearly here. it does have an 'L' next to it on the pwe page. which clearly stands for LIVE. but it also says "in open-beta" right next to it also. so why are we arguing at all? you're both wrong. and you're both right.
Well im about to leave, but OP did manage to convince me this is actually a beta.
So now i cant wait for this game to go Live, so all my friends can play together with me. Everyone will be able to play it ! Cant wait for NW to go live because there will be no more char wipes ! No rollbacks ! And we will be able to use $ to buy stuff in Zen shop, and exchange it for AD. You know, there will be stuff that betas (especially this one) dont have.
i. cant. wait. for this game to go live. So much will change.
0
Options
tek83Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
The people who say this isn't beta remind me of that psycho chick from the season finale of Kitchen Nightmares.
Seriously, if you haven't watched it, watch it. Then Google "Amy's Baking Company"
The people who say this isn't beta remind me of that psycho chick from the season finale of Kitchen Nightmares.
Seriously, if you haven't watched it, watch it. Then Google "Amy's Baking Company"
what they mean isnt 'the game is live"
What they mean is, this isnt a "beta" in the sense that its a testing phase before the game goes live. Its pushing the game out half-finished, declaring it an Open beta, and using that to excuse the fact the game is half finished and broken.
It has the dual upsides of they can start raking in money now, and have fanboys defend any problem with the game with "omg its open beta ffs"
This is what is termed a "soft launch"
beta used to mean "the game is not released for reals yet, you are only here to test bugs before we code the final release"
Nowadays, beta just means "cheap excuse to get fanboys to forgive us while we start raking in cash"
Oh, I know. But I also know how game review sites work. ...let's call it insider knowledge and leave it at that.
I just have issues with MMORPG and a few others that are beholden to game publishers and wouldnt think of giving a poor review of a game. Think back to the last time you read a bad review come from a site like MMORPG. There's a reason you cant recall one.
I see your point and fully understand it. I mainly read stuff on sites like that just for release date info. Once it's playable as either released or open beta I don't bother with the reviews because I can play it myself. Prelaunch reviews I'll read in pcgamer, when they have them, as they will usually be more honest but they even sugar coat some negatives on big games because they want the ad $$ too.
The people who say this isn't beta remind me of that psycho chick from the season finale of Kitchen Nightmares.
Seriously, if you haven't watched it, watch it. Then Google "Amy's Baking Company"
It is a beta. Imaginary beta though. Its no more beta than SWTOR release was. They just named it differently. Heck, Allods was in open beta for almost 2 years, its just a trend that more and more mmo companies are using, to hide behind it.
And people like you are ok with it. Cryptic might have named it Alpha NW and we would still have people defending cryptic/pwe. That wont change. And you also remind me of someone.
It is a beta. Imaginary beta though. Its no more beta than SWTOR release was. They just named it differently. Heck, Allods was in open beta for almost 2 years, its just a trend that more and more mmo companies are using, to hide behind it.
And people like you are ok with it. Cryptic might have named it Alpha NW and we would still have people defending cryptic/pwe. That wont change. And you also remind me of someone.
This.
hell, the most telling sign that this "beta" is them just wanting to start make money before they term the game "live" is that open BETA had a HEAD START. something thats absolutely poinbtless if this was a real beta with character wipes at the end. Not to mention how founder packs are still for sale, weeks after said head start access reward is utterly pointless and despite threir insistence "oh,. theyre soon to be gone!"
hell, the most telling sign that this "beta" is them just wanting to start make money before they term the game "live" is that open BETA had a HEAD START. something thats absolutely poinbtless if this was a real beta with character wipes at the end. Not to mention how founder packs are still for sale, weeks after said head start access reward is utterly pointless and despite threir insistence "oh,. theyre soon to be gone!"
They're being removed on 5/30, Cryptic has been quite transparent on this, as well as everything else.
b. as explained earlier, go say that in PoE or Dota forums.
a) How is your job better than mine when I make exponentially more than you do at McDonalds?
b) When they accept RMT we're not in beta anymore Toto, regardless of the cute graphics the marketing department has added to their website to perpetuate the lie that soft launches are nothing more than gigantic CYA exercises to dupe the ignorant, unsuspecting public.
I note that the moderators have said or implied that claiming this game ISN'T in "open beta" is a violation of the ROC.
Make of that what you will.
www.perfectworld.com says it's live. The mods would look pretty silly trying to enforce that.
"Participation in PVP-related activities is so low on an hourly, daily, weekly, and monthly basis that we could in fact just completely take it out of STO and it would not impact the overall number of people [who] log in to the game and play in any significant way." -Gozer, Cryptic PvP Dev
Comments
You are trying to hard. Game is in open beta. Move along.
I would say that only the DEVELOPERS of a game can say if it's beta or not, not the people who own them. You pretty much said it yourself, Cryptic is calling it open beta, and I'm pretty sure they are the ones working on it, so who can trump that?
He isn't reviewing the game though. He's just talking about the beta/release issue and not even confining it to just NWO but saying how it's common practice now.There review comes out next month.
That's what Cryptic choose to say it is. I'm done with you. You display no ability to reason and your argument, such as it is, is circular and going nowhere. believe what you wish, but don't attempt to shove your opinion down the throats of educated people who can see different.
So why did you bother replying at all, if you knew what I was doing in the first place? I need to shove it down your throats becasue you are too **** stupid to digest it yourselves.
Game has major flaws. Needs work. It's in Beta. The money you gave(or didn't give) was a donation to the devs to help them create a final product. End of story.
great another one that doesnt believe that the game has actually been released yet :=)
According to some, we are playing a game that has not been realeased. But once they officially release it, all of its problems will go away, and it will be much much better game. And everything else will be totally different.
Why on earth do people keep on saying 'its not released yet', when everyone know basically nothing will change except its prefix and it wont be 'officially' named open beta any longer?
Please, enlighten us. Show us the way, so everyone who is not aware of how awesome those changes will be (once the game goes "live") can eagerly anticipate NW release like you guys do. Please, do it.
Do you even know that there are some f2p mmos that have been in open beta for years? Hell, some even closed while still being in open beta, lol. And why exactly do you support such a shady way of doing business, when we (players) dont really benefit from it, at all?
MMO companies started using open beta tag as a shield, and apparently people are ok with it
now you are just trolling, lol.
I'd suggest that the people who own the property and pay the wages can pretty much do as they wish and the minions working for them can say what they want. Everyone in the industry knows this game is launched, that's why many more articles are appearing about it. But if fanboys wish to use open beta as a means to dismiss the things wrong with a game that's their prerogative, it does a disservice to the developers however because discussing and hashing out the problems is exactly what a beta was intended to do.
Dismissing problems by saying 'it's free' and 'it's beta' simply don't offer solutions to either developer or player. THAT'S why the term should not be applied, because too many are using it as an excuse for poor execution.
I highly recommend that you make this your avatar....trust me....it suits you to a perfect T.
I say, if you have a problem with this, then address the specific problem instead of trying to get PW to change some label they put on the game's development stage and then argue semantics on the forums. For example, I have a problem with skills and feats being changed around and not offering that class a free respec. The fact that some skills and feats need to be re worked and balanced because it's still in a beta phase, I understand. I don't like having to pay money for something that gets changed. At the end of the day, I'll suck it up and deal with it, but at least that's an argument about a specific way that paying for beta effects my enjoyment of the game.
TLDR: stop arguing semantics and make more accurate points.
Wow that is amazing! So if you make it you get to choose what it is and what everyone should think it is? I didn't know that, thank you. I'll just be right back, have some gold nuggets I need to start making in the toilet.
this might help some of you. I doubt it for a few though. (no cartoons to tempt the pure of heart )
Oh, I know. But I also know how game review sites work. ...let's call it insider knowledge and leave it at that.
I just have issues with MMORPG and a few others that are beholden to game publishers and wouldnt think of giving a poor review of a game. Think back to the last time you read a bad review come from a site like MMORPG. There's a reason you cant recall one.
Not sure if trolling...
I'd explain it, but I really don't think you'd be able to comprehend. Let me dumb it down:
Beta = Expect bugs, follow up with reports, etc.
Release = Minimal bugs, people have every right to be pissed off with issues.
There's no "magic patch"
It enter release when the game is stable enough.
"Open beta" no longer means what it once did. It's become a marketing term for a lot of companies/games, so that they can "release" the product out, and start making money off of it, while still maintaining that the game is in "beta state" to explain away the rampant bugs and unfinished content.
So yes, technically it's still in "open beta" because Cryptic says so. However, as the goalposts of what makes a beta a beta have been shuffled around so much in recent years, it's easy to SAY it's still in beta while charging people for the game/items in the game, and moving forward as though it were launched, bug-fixing and adding content as you go.
So now i cant wait for this game to go Live, so all my friends can play together with me. Everyone will be able to play it ! Cant wait for NW to go live because there will be no more char wipes ! No rollbacks ! And we will be able to use $ to buy stuff in Zen shop, and exchange it for AD. You know, there will be stuff that betas (especially this one) dont have.
i. cant. wait. for this game to go live. So much will change.
Seriously, if you haven't watched it, watch it. Then Google "Amy's Baking Company"
what they mean isnt 'the game is live"
What they mean is, this isnt a "beta" in the sense that its a testing phase before the game goes live. Its pushing the game out half-finished, declaring it an Open beta, and using that to excuse the fact the game is half finished and broken.
It has the dual upsides of they can start raking in money now, and have fanboys defend any problem with the game with "omg its open beta ffs"
This is what is termed a "soft launch"
beta used to mean "the game is not released for reals yet, you are only here to test bugs before we code the final release"
Nowadays, beta just means "cheap excuse to get fanboys to forgive us while we start raking in cash"
I see your point and fully understand it. I mainly read stuff on sites like that just for release date info. Once it's playable as either released or open beta I don't bother with the reviews because I can play it myself. Prelaunch reviews I'll read in pcgamer, when they have them, as they will usually be more honest but they even sugar coat some negatives on big games because they want the ad $$ too.
It is a beta. Imaginary beta though. Its no more beta than SWTOR release was. They just named it differently. Heck, Allods was in open beta for almost 2 years, its just a trend that more and more mmo companies are using, to hide behind it.
And people like you are ok with it. Cryptic might have named it Alpha NW and we would still have people defending cryptic/pwe. That wont change. And you also remind me of someone.
This.
hell, the most telling sign that this "beta" is them just wanting to start make money before they term the game "live" is that open BETA had a HEAD START. something thats absolutely poinbtless if this was a real beta with character wipes at the end. Not to mention how founder packs are still for sale, weeks after said head start access reward is utterly pointless and despite threir insistence "oh,. theyre soon to be gone!"
Nope. Limited Release.
Nope. Limited Release.
Yup. Thats why I don't consider them Beta.
Ok.
They're being removed on 5/30, Cryptic has been quite transparent on this, as well as everything else.
O-line for the Jets? I"m drawing a blank, lol.... If so, wtf does he have to do with NWO? Is this another one of those 'memes' ?
edit: who is zack ryder?
I note that the moderators have said or implied that claiming this game ISN'T in "open beta" is a violation of the ROC.
Make of that what you will.
Let your life proceed by its own designs
Nothing to tell
Let the words be yours, I'm done with mine ...
a) How is your job better than mine when I make exponentially more than you do at McDonalds?
b) When they accept RMT we're not in beta anymore Toto, regardless of the cute graphics the marketing department has added to their website to perpetuate the lie that soft launches are nothing more than gigantic CYA exercises to dupe the ignorant, unsuspecting public.
www.perfectworld.com says it's live. The mods would look pretty silly trying to enforce that.