Doesn't really seem worth it.
As for the bonus damage from strength, I am pretty sure it is 1% for every point over 10. Does not affect your calculations though. Either way 20 STR is 10% bonus
You were correct. I have edited the original post with an example for someone with 25 STR. Either way, the additional damage seems a little lackluster.
thank you for posting this kind sir! ive been follow your guide. Sir would you mind posting the screen shot of your Power and Feat build? would help a ton, Thank you very much!
any chance that you will post your item build aswell? - cause im out of ideas what to upgrade
thanks in advance!
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cichardMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
So i am using a version of this and really enjoy it teh basics are there i only use lashing instead of smoke bomb on boss fights. I go in to combat start hitting the boss with the first 2 swings of DF then go stealth right before stealth runs out use Bait and switch right before stealth runs out i use lashing blade for 100% crit chance then use shadow strike to go back in to stealth. then once my daily is up i keep this rotation going untill i get to lashing i save shadow strike and use Lurkers go back stealth and use lashing for huge crit and keep using DF if i have to stick and move alot ill use Sly but any chance i get to stand still i use DF.
Executioner
5/5 Dazzaling Blaze
5/5 Devestating Shourd(for when i pvp)
5/5 Brutal backstab
5/5 Deadly momentum
1/1 overrun critical
Scoundrel
5/5 underhand tactics
Saboteur
5/5 cunning stalker
With this i get to use dailies very fast and quite often during a boss fight. Im constantly top damage and just generally love the feel of this build, It feels very rogue like.
On trash i use blades and blitz and lashing.
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dohxboyMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 17Arc User
You were correct. I have edited the original post with an example for someone with 25 STR. Either way, the additional damage seems a little lackluster.
Someone tested it, point per point, and came up with a rough increase of ~2%. The numbers are very worth while and a lot more than the math previously mentioned.
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aishiraMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
Here is a little example for deft strike / Impossible to catch on a T2 Boss http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=aFJugGTtXOI
Didn't time everything perfectly and did some mistakes (luckily I have enough HP to survive a hit) but overall clean fight.
So i am using a version of this and really enjoy it teh basics are there i only use lashing instead of smoke bomb on boss fights. I go in to combat start hitting the boss with the first 2 swings of DF then go stealth right before stealth runs out use Bait and switch right before stealth runs out i use lashing blade for 100% crit chance then use shadow strike to go back in to stealth. then once my daily is up i keep this rotation going untill i get to lashing i save shadow strike and use Lurkers go back stealth and use lashing for huge crit and keep using DF if i have to stick and move alot ill use Sly but any chance i get to stand still i use DF.
Executioner
5/5 Dazzaling Blaze
5/5 Devestating Shourd(for when i pvp)
5/5 Brutal backstab
5/5 Deadly momentum
1/1 overrun critical
Scoundrel
5/5 underhand tactics
Saboteur
5/5 cunning stalker
With this i get to use dailies very fast and quite often during a boss fight. Im constantly top damage and just generally love the feel of this build, It feels very rogue like.
On trash i use blades and blitz and lashing.
I have the exact same feats, what yellow skill/passive skill do you use for pve and pvp?
Each point of Charisma = 1% combat advantage damage, each point of strength = 1% damage.
We also know that combat advantage does not get even close to 100% of our damage (i think its ~20-25% at most).
So adding 1 point of strength gives a strait 1% damage while 1 charisma gives around 0.25% (you do get more benefits from cha than strait up damage though).
As for disciple of STR i am still testing it out, before today's patch it added exactly 6% more damage but i will have to run the numbers again today.
I think that most of us will agree that damage from combat advantage is greater than damage dealt when not. Correct me if I am wrong, but when in stealth we do combat advantage damage 100% of the time. Assuming that this build does indeed provide stealth 90% of the time ("This is what i use to basically stick to stealth 90% of the time.") then you have combat advantage about 90% of the time.
When you said damage from combat advantage is only ~20-25% of the damage, it got me thinking. Lets say you deal normal damage of 100, and 150 when having combat advantage. I always thought that combat advantage damage would be 150 flat, but it seems that you think that only the 50 damage that is added on to the normal damage is counted as combat advantage damage (which may be very possible). IF the latter is the case then Str would be a better choice, otherwise Cha will yield more damage simply because 1% of damage from combat advantage is greater than 1% normal damage (1% of 150 >> 1% of 100).
For Disciple of Strength at 3/3 I think that it is 6% damage increase OF the bonus damage from strength. 25 Str will yield a 15% bonus damage and 6% increase of that will only total 15.9% (not even 1 Str worth greater). In this case it is probably not worth investing in it unless you want to push for every bit of damage.
In the second scenario, it is 6% added to the 15% bonus totaling 21%. However! in this case it matters NOT how much strength you have. Lets say you focused on Cha as secondary ability score and have 25 Cha but only 15 Str. 15 Str or 25 Str makes no difference in that it will still add 6% on to it technically making your damage output 6% greater in either case (if this does not make sense I do not know how else to explain it).
Using what I said above, I want to choose Cha if the whole 150 damage is from combat advantage (assuming I make good use of stealth so that I have combat advantage most of the time) otherwise Str would be much better. And I would only upgrade disciple of strength IF the 6% damage is additive, no matter if I chose the Str or Cha route it would yield the same result; 6% bonus damage.
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dohxboyMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 17Arc User
For Disciple of Strength at 3/3 I think that it is 6% damage increase OF the bonus damage from strength. 25 Str will yield a 15% bonus damage and 6% increase of that will only total 15.9% (not even 1 Str worth greater). In this case it is probably not worth investing in it unless you want to push for every bit of damage.
In the second scenario, it is 6% added to the 15% bonus totaling 21%. However! in this case it matters NOT how much strength you have. Lets say you focused on Cha as secondary ability score and have 25 Cha but only 15 Str. 15 Str or 25 Str makes no difference in that it will still add 6% on to it technically making your damage output 6% greater in either case (if this does not make sense I do not know how else to explain it).
First off, see my quote below for a link to some solid testing in regards to the effects of DoS. It seems to be the second case indefinitely. Now, if it's intended to be a solid +6%, who knows, but that's how it is calculating.
Someone tested it, point per point, and came up with a rough increase of ~2%. The numbers are very worth while and a lot more than the math previously mentioned.
Second, no offense meant to you, but too many people are throwing out numbers based on what they interpret things to mean when they have not done any legitimate testing. It's frustrating when the tooltips are all screwed up and completely misrepresent or don't explain what the actually increases do. There is also no transparency when it comes to what things such as Combat Advantage actually do. Sure, we know that it increases the damage we do when we are flanking or otherwise not the focus of the target. But, we have no idea what the actually calculations are or where they come into play.
Combat advantage isn't too terribly hard to test and I plan on testing it when the servers come back up. I will roll a human with equal str/cha, get the starting weapon, and slap a couple mobs to get enough of a testing pool to come up with an average hit damage and average CA damage. Then I will reroll that human character and put the +2 bonus into CHA. Get the same number of tests, and see how the average changed. Finally, for arguments sake, I will reroll the human again and put the +2 into str, gather the same numbers, and see what we come out with. Once I have done this, I will gladly come back to these forums and post my findings. Although this will not be a level 60 test, and the numbers and gains may be very small, it will be a legitimate test with less variables as each character will have the same exact armor/weapons and will be attacking the same exact monsters. Even if the difference with an additional 2 points in either stat is too small to tell, it may at least give me an idea of what the base increase to damage CA provides.
I wish this could be done with larger numbers but, unfortunately, I don't think it's even possible to test this at level 60 since you can't freely respend your stat points. But I may be wrong as I do not know all of the respec options just yet.
I noted you prioritize disciple of strength and the at-will feat over Improved Cunning Sneak.
I have not played to high level yet. I am currently 33. Are abilities later on sufficient for you to maintain stealth uptime without coming in late on a refresh. I currently feel like my stealth time is *barely* enough to get off Bait & Switch after a Duelist volley. With Improved Cunning Sneak, I have ample time. I can only imagine this helps abilities like Bait and Shadow strike come off cooldown in time even easier.
It depends on when you activate stealth, with a full bar i have around 1 sec of free time after a Duelist's Flurry if i activate right when i start, if i activate Stealth before i run in then i will be short.
The reason i down ranked Cunning sneak is i think that 5 points is too steep for 1 sec of stealth vs 9% at will damage or 6% more damage overall.
Will they balance rogue paragon trees? or 1 tree will still be op than the 2 others?
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senseijohnMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 90
edited May 2013
So, are we saying now that STR > CHA?
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senseijohnMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 90
edited May 2013
Can anyone get their STR above an 18 on a half-orc? The max I can get is 18DEX/18STR with the bonus. I've re-rolled dozens of times and never does STR go above 18.
I don't feel like your descriptive scenario of Shadow Adept illustrates how to best incorporate the feat into an effective playstyle. You woulnd't use it to dodge out of combat so that you can regain stealth; you'd use it so that when you NEED to dodge out of combat you regain stealth. Since dodging is necessary, especially when you are out of stealth, it's nice to have shift get you back into stealth faster.
Dodging out of an AOE, and then dodging back into combat will refill 20% of your stealth bar, and usually allows me to go back into stealth right then.
Not that it's absolutely a must-have or anything, especially when you consider skills like Shadow Strike or Bait and Switch. I just think Shadow Adept is more useful than you are depicting.
STR > for PvP as its 1% damage per point above 10
CHA > for PvE was its 10% + 1% per point above 10 while in combat advantage (plus the companion stat bonus can be nice when its ~15% more).
IMHO - Human / Half-Orc should go STR and Drow / Halfling should go for CHA.
I don't feel like your descriptive scenario of Shadow Adept illustrates how to best incorporate the feat into an effective playstyle. You woulnd't use it to dodge out of combat so that you can regain stealth; you'd use it so that when you NEED to dodge out of combat you regain stealth. Since dodging is necessary, especially when you are out of stealth, it's nice to have shift get you back into stealth faster.
Dodging out of an AOE, and then dodging back into combat will refill 20% of your stealth bar, and usually allows me to go back into stealth right then.
Not that it's absolutely a must-have or anything, especially when you consider skills like Shadow Strike or Bait and Switch. I just think Shadow Adept is more useful than you are depicting.
Using a 2nd dodge to get back into range sounds like a stupid idea and will more than likely get you killed at some point because you wont have the stamina to dodge when needed. If you want to get back into range instantly use Deft Strike.
The feat provides 0.1 sec of stealth time recovery per point when you dodge (0.6 if you went for the +1 sec stealth feat). If you feel like it compliments your play style then by all means go for it. I posted this as a general guide and i tried to be as vague as possible on what i use because it something works for you then who am i to tall you not to use it.
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cichardMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Half Orc: For the STR rogue, max STR and get good dex no other race provides as much. With crit severity and the possibility for a max of 27 STR and 25 dex this is the best race for stats.
The roll you describe doesn't exist. It's actually impossible to roll a secondary stat higher than 16 (http://neverwinter.gamepedia.com/Ability_Score_Rolling), so the 16 DEX 16 STR roll is the highest you can roll STR on a Half Orc rogue, which of course works out to 18 DEX 18 STR because of the racial bonuses. So the highest you'll get after putting in the +6 from leveling and +1 from the campfire buff would be 25 STR 25 DEX.
Sly Flourish - PvE 3 PvP 3
Your bread and butter attack, you will use this skill more than anything else.
Good - You start with it and throughout the game this will remain on your bar at all times.
Bad - Nothing really, damage is average but its an at will with 0 drawback.
Cloud of Steel - PvE 1 PvP 3
This will probably be everyone's secondary at will at least until duelist flurry and even then it is sometimes better when you need some range.
Good - Ranged attack with a quick execution, can be used without breaking stealth.
Bad - Limited charges (12), adding points does not increase charges only a bit of damage.
Duelist's Flurry - PvE 3, PvP 0
This skill cannot work as your main At Will due to the long animation but it makes good for secondary skill especially vs high HP targets.
Good - Highest DPS ability we have; amazing damage when the bleed is at 10/10 stacks.
Bad - Takes 2 sec to wind up and another 2 to execute, so you need a stationary target and usually a distraction like a tank etc.
Gloaming Cut - PvE 0, PvP 0
Slow attack with a little bit of forward momentum that deals average damage and gives a little stealth IF you get the killing blow with it.
Good - I can't say anything good about this skill, it fails to work in every possible way.
Bad - Long windup, bad damage, low stealth bar refill on killing blow makes this a pass for anyone.
I'm only level 40 currently, and mainly have done PvE....I've done some PvP. However, I think you've under rated Duelist's Flurry.
I do use Duelist's Flurry (DF) for my main attack and find it's actually superior to Sly Flourish (SF). DF does have a long animation before the flurry animation....however during that flurry animation you're actually immune. If timed right, you can actually avoid the red floor glowing attacks of the big monsters & regular attacks while you're attacking them. Of course it's hard to time, but even when not trying to time it and just constantly attacking you'll avoid some of the attacks; thereby you take less damage. Additionally, DF does more damage than SF due to the bleeding being stacked on; even more with the Deadly Momentum Feat that gives you extra crits for the stack (haven't gotten this yet, but I'm sure it works as good as advertised).
As for PvP, I find it sometimes works if people don't run all over the place. Some people just stand around, especially the tanks, clerics, and wizard. Other times they run all over the place and DF doesn't work very well and SF works better. Although all this might be just dependent on the PUG groups I play with and perhaps at level 60 PvP it'll be impossible to DF anybody. The extra damage and bleed effect is great as sometimes while they run away from you they'll die from the bleeding. The flurry damage avoidance may be helpful, but probably will be too hard to time.
I think it should be:
- Sly Flourish - PvE 2 PvP 3
- Duelist's Flurry - PvE 3, PvP 2
Cloud of Steel is useful in PvE, you could take down the ranged monsters with it pretty easily. Also when big monsters use their area attacks around themselves and you have to dodge away and wait....you can pelt them with Cloud of Steal in the meanwhile and then go back in when it's clear and let it recharge. I don't think there's really much else you can do when you have to wait for the area attack to go away.
Also you get two at-will attacks, there doesn't seem to be a reason to have anything else but Cloud of Steel. If you're using Sly Flourish as your primary, why really have Duelist Flurry or Gloaming Cut? You can only use them at the same time you're using Sly Flourish and can't use them when you can't use Sly Flourish. The only thing I can think of is using Gloaming Cut for the killing blow to get a partial stealth recharge, but it doesn't seem worth using Gloaming Cut at all.
I think it should be:
- Cloud of Steel - PvE 3 PvP 3
As for the Gear Properties, I find Regeneration useful. It seems to get you the same amount of HP as Life Steal, but it's constantly healing you rather than only when you're hitting something. I thought maybe I might do so much damage that I'd get more with Life Steal, but when I tested it I couldn't (around level 20 something at the time)....and I do do quite a bit of damage as I'm usually the top damager in Skirmishes and Dungeon Delves, even over other rogues.
Regeneration compliments healing potions and the Cleric Companion. Of course regeneration does less, but it adds up over time. In PvP, you're not allowed to use healing potions or companions. I think you can buy PvP healing potions, but why bother. So in PvP the only other ways to heal are to run over some respawning heal pickups or hope you have a cleric on the team and that they'll heal you. I've seen enemies get their HP dropped low, and all I have to do is leisurely keep hurting them....they ain't healing any time soon. With regeneration, I'm always healing and if I'm really hurt I can just avoid fighting for awhile. I can run to and capture domination spots in the meanwhile. Also when there's no enemies around because we've killed them or they ran away, I'm healing inbetween the battles.
Perhaps in higher levels it might not be as effective as people do more damage, but you should be getting more HP regenerated at higher levels as it's a percentage of your HP. Seems to work for me so far anyways.
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cichardMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
um he says pve 3 on DF which it is the best for pve but pvp 0 which is correct you "Rarely" will ever land a DF on someone in pvp unless you are with a CW that Freezes the target. In a premade 5man PVP i would use DF over Sly but not in a pug.
also thats what impossible to catch is for go stealth use impossible stay on target with DF...
so whats the best roll for a half orc TR? for humans and orcs you say getting more STr than DEX, but for other races you even prefer charisma over strength?
also, what are the other opinions regarding the roll? i guess 16/16 for dex and str sounds good with the +2 bonus in each!
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lepapaMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
DF makes you immune? Haaaah. No. You take full damage but you will not be interrupted.
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cichardMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
um he says pve 3 on DF which it is the best for pve but pvp 0 which is correct you "Rarely" will ever land a DF on someone in pvp unless you are with a CW that Freezes the target. In a premade 5man PVP i would use DF over Sly but not in a pug.
also thats what impossible to catch is for go stealth use impossible stay on target with DF...
I was suggesting to downgrade SF to 2 in PvE because DF is better.
DF makes you immune? Haaaah. No. You take full damage but you will not be interrupted.
I don't know, I was testing SF and DF the other day on those big demons on Helms Hold. I would run up to them and just attack them only with SF or DF. I only did it once with each and tried to take out the imps with him the same, I found I took less damage with DF and was about 20 seconds faster (probably because I wasn't getting knocked down as much and doing more damage). I suppose I could have taken less because I killed it faster, but I think it was a disproportional amount of damage for 20 seconds. I might have to test this again, but if you're not immune using DF then at least you're going to take less damage if you kill it faster then.
Edit: Yeah ok, I was watching my health as I was flurrying and getting hit just now. I still take the damage. But DF should kill the thing faster meaning I'll take less because it was dead faster.
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spc4343Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 3Arc User
edited May 2013
I am only level 47 but I am curious about how you get such high uptime with stealth. Is it because my damage is not yet that high that I am not seeing the returns in lowering the cooldown of my stealth? My typical perfect scenario goes as follows:
Total Stealth uptime (10 seconds out of 20 seconds)
At this point shadow strike is up and the cycle repeats. I know eventually I will get another free stealth due to using dailies but at this point I have no idea how you get that kind of upkeep. Please let me know so that I know what to expect at higher levels, thanks!
Comments
You were correct. I have edited the original post with an example for someone with 25 STR. Either way, the additional damage seems a little lackluster.
thanks in advance!
Feats:
5/5 action advantage
3/3 weapon mastery
1/3 toughness
3/3 cunning ambusher
3/3 endless assault
3/3 scoundrel Training
2/3 disciple of strength
Executioner
5/5 Dazzaling Blaze
5/5 Devestating Shourd(for when i pvp)
5/5 Brutal backstab
5/5 Deadly momentum
1/1 overrun critical
Scoundrel
5/5 underhand tactics
Saboteur
5/5 cunning stalker
With this i get to use dailies very fast and quite often during a boss fight. Im constantly top damage and just generally love the feel of this build, It feels very rogue like.
On trash i use blades and blitz and lashing.
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?225051-Settling-the-dispute-Disciple-of-Strength
Someone tested it, point per point, and came up with a rough increase of ~2%. The numbers are very worth while and a lot more than the math previously mentioned.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=aFJugGTtXOI
Didn't time everything perfectly and did some mistakes (luckily I have enough HP to survive a hit) but overall clean fight.
I have the exact same feats, what yellow skill/passive skill do you use for pve and pvp?
I think that most of us will agree that damage from combat advantage is greater than damage dealt when not. Correct me if I am wrong, but when in stealth we do combat advantage damage 100% of the time. Assuming that this build does indeed provide stealth 90% of the time ("This is what i use to basically stick to stealth 90% of the time.") then you have combat advantage about 90% of the time.
When you said damage from combat advantage is only ~20-25% of the damage, it got me thinking. Lets say you deal normal damage of 100, and 150 when having combat advantage. I always thought that combat advantage damage would be 150 flat, but it seems that you think that only the 50 damage that is added on to the normal damage is counted as combat advantage damage (which may be very possible). IF the latter is the case then Str would be a better choice, otherwise Cha will yield more damage simply because 1% of damage from combat advantage is greater than 1% normal damage (1% of 150 >> 1% of 100).
For Disciple of Strength at 3/3 I think that it is 6% damage increase OF the bonus damage from strength. 25 Str will yield a 15% bonus damage and 6% increase of that will only total 15.9% (not even 1 Str worth greater). In this case it is probably not worth investing in it unless you want to push for every bit of damage.
In the second scenario, it is 6% added to the 15% bonus totaling 21%. However! in this case it matters NOT how much strength you have. Lets say you focused on Cha as secondary ability score and have 25 Cha but only 15 Str. 15 Str or 25 Str makes no difference in that it will still add 6% on to it technically making your damage output 6% greater in either case (if this does not make sense I do not know how else to explain it).
Using what I said above, I want to choose Cha if the whole 150 damage is from combat advantage (assuming I make good use of stealth so that I have combat advantage most of the time) otherwise Str would be much better. And I would only upgrade disciple of strength IF the 6% damage is additive, no matter if I chose the Str or Cha route it would yield the same result; 6% bonus damage.
First off, see my quote below for a link to some solid testing in regards to the effects of DoS. It seems to be the second case indefinitely. Now, if it's intended to be a solid +6%, who knows, but that's how it is calculating.
Second, no offense meant to you, but too many people are throwing out numbers based on what they interpret things to mean when they have not done any legitimate testing. It's frustrating when the tooltips are all screwed up and completely misrepresent or don't explain what the actually increases do. There is also no transparency when it comes to what things such as Combat Advantage actually do. Sure, we know that it increases the damage we do when we are flanking or otherwise not the focus of the target. But, we have no idea what the actually calculations are or where they come into play.
Combat advantage isn't too terribly hard to test and I plan on testing it when the servers come back up. I will roll a human with equal str/cha, get the starting weapon, and slap a couple mobs to get enough of a testing pool to come up with an average hit damage and average CA damage. Then I will reroll that human character and put the +2 bonus into CHA. Get the same number of tests, and see how the average changed. Finally, for arguments sake, I will reroll the human again and put the +2 into str, gather the same numbers, and see what we come out with. Once I have done this, I will gladly come back to these forums and post my findings. Although this will not be a level 60 test, and the numbers and gains may be very small, it will be a legitimate test with less variables as each character will have the same exact armor/weapons and will be attacking the same exact monsters. Even if the difference with an additional 2 points in either stat is too small to tell, it may at least give me an idea of what the base increase to damage CA provides.
I wish this could be done with larger numbers but, unfortunately, I don't think it's even possible to test this at level 60 since you can't freely respend your stat points. But I may be wrong as I do not know all of the respec options just yet.
I noted you prioritize disciple of strength and the at-will feat over Improved Cunning Sneak.
I have not played to high level yet. I am currently 33. Are abilities later on sufficient for you to maintain stealth uptime without coming in late on a refresh. I currently feel like my stealth time is *barely* enough to get off Bait & Switch after a Duelist volley. With Improved Cunning Sneak, I have ample time. I can only imagine this helps abilities like Bait and Shadow strike come off cooldown in time even easier.
Thoughts?
The reason i down ranked Cunning sneak is i think that 5 points is too steep for 1 sec of stealth vs 9% at will damage or 6% more damage overall.
Shard: Mindflayer
Characters: Grim, Rune, Holy, Ruin - If the name isn't the @FearGXxD handle, it's not me!
Dodging out of an AOE, and then dodging back into combat will refill 20% of your stealth bar, and usually allows me to go back into stealth right then.
Not that it's absolutely a must-have or anything, especially when you consider skills like Shadow Strike or Bait and Switch. I just think Shadow Adept is more useful than you are depicting.
Basic Signature until I finish my work on my fully made signature.
Does anyone know the answer to this? If you are solo, and you are stealthed, are mobs counted as not targeting you?
It works, also if you are solo and your decoy , or pet/companion is getting hit, it will work.
STR > for PvP as its 1% damage per point above 10
CHA > for PvE was its 10% + 1% per point above 10 while in combat advantage (plus the companion stat bonus can be nice when its ~15% more).
IMHO - Human / Half-Orc should go STR and Drow / Halfling should go for CHA.
Using a 2nd dodge to get back into range sounds like a stupid idea and will more than likely get you killed at some point because you wont have the stamina to dodge when needed. If you want to get back into range instantly use Deft Strike.
The feat provides 0.1 sec of stealth time recovery per point when you dodge (0.6 if you went for the +1 sec stealth feat). If you feel like it compliments your play style then by all means go for it. I posted this as a general guide and i tried to be as vague as possible on what i use because it something works for you then who am i to tall you not to use it.
Tenac concelment and Invis infil
The roll you describe doesn't exist. It's actually impossible to roll a secondary stat higher than 16 (http://neverwinter.gamepedia.com/Ability_Score_Rolling), so the 16 DEX 16 STR roll is the highest you can roll STR on a Half Orc rogue, which of course works out to 18 DEX 18 STR because of the racial bonuses. So the highest you'll get after putting in the +6 from leveling and +1 from the campfire buff would be 25 STR 25 DEX.
I'm only level 40 currently, and mainly have done PvE....I've done some PvP. However, I think you've under rated Duelist's Flurry.
I do use Duelist's Flurry (DF) for my main attack and find it's actually superior to Sly Flourish (SF). DF does have a long animation before the flurry animation....however during that flurry animation you're actually immune. If timed right, you can actually avoid the red floor glowing attacks of the big monsters & regular attacks while you're attacking them. Of course it's hard to time, but even when not trying to time it and just constantly attacking you'll avoid some of the attacks; thereby you take less damage. Additionally, DF does more damage than SF due to the bleeding being stacked on; even more with the Deadly Momentum Feat that gives you extra crits for the stack (haven't gotten this yet, but I'm sure it works as good as advertised).
As for PvP, I find it sometimes works if people don't run all over the place. Some people just stand around, especially the tanks, clerics, and wizard. Other times they run all over the place and DF doesn't work very well and SF works better. Although all this might be just dependent on the PUG groups I play with and perhaps at level 60 PvP it'll be impossible to DF anybody. The extra damage and bleed effect is great as sometimes while they run away from you they'll die from the bleeding. The flurry damage avoidance may be helpful, but probably will be too hard to time.
I think it should be:
- Sly Flourish - PvE 2 PvP 3
- Duelist's Flurry - PvE 3, PvP 2
Cloud of Steel is useful in PvE, you could take down the ranged monsters with it pretty easily. Also when big monsters use their area attacks around themselves and you have to dodge away and wait....you can pelt them with Cloud of Steal in the meanwhile and then go back in when it's clear and let it recharge. I don't think there's really much else you can do when you have to wait for the area attack to go away.
Also you get two at-will attacks, there doesn't seem to be a reason to have anything else but Cloud of Steel. If you're using Sly Flourish as your primary, why really have Duelist Flurry or Gloaming Cut? You can only use them at the same time you're using Sly Flourish and can't use them when you can't use Sly Flourish. The only thing I can think of is using Gloaming Cut for the killing blow to get a partial stealth recharge, but it doesn't seem worth using Gloaming Cut at all.
I think it should be:
- Cloud of Steel - PvE 3 PvP 3
As for the Gear Properties, I find Regeneration useful. It seems to get you the same amount of HP as Life Steal, but it's constantly healing you rather than only when you're hitting something. I thought maybe I might do so much damage that I'd get more with Life Steal, but when I tested it I couldn't (around level 20 something at the time)....and I do do quite a bit of damage as I'm usually the top damager in Skirmishes and Dungeon Delves, even over other rogues.
Regeneration compliments healing potions and the Cleric Companion. Of course regeneration does less, but it adds up over time. In PvP, you're not allowed to use healing potions or companions. I think you can buy PvP healing potions, but why bother. So in PvP the only other ways to heal are to run over some respawning heal pickups or hope you have a cleric on the team and that they'll heal you. I've seen enemies get their HP dropped low, and all I have to do is leisurely keep hurting them....they ain't healing any time soon. With regeneration, I'm always healing and if I'm really hurt I can just avoid fighting for awhile. I can run to and capture domination spots in the meanwhile. Also when there's no enemies around because we've killed them or they ran away, I'm healing inbetween the battles.
Perhaps in higher levels it might not be as effective as people do more damage, but you should be getting more HP regenerated at higher levels as it's a percentage of your HP. Seems to work for me so far anyways.
also thats what impossible to catch is for go stealth use impossible stay on target with DF...
also, what are the other opinions regarding the roll? i guess 16/16 for dex and str sounds good with the +2 bonus in each!
I was suggesting to downgrade SF to 2 in PvE because DF is better.
I don't know, I was testing SF and DF the other day on those big demons on Helms Hold. I would run up to them and just attack them only with SF or DF. I only did it once with each and tried to take out the imps with him the same, I found I took less damage with DF and was about 20 seconds faster (probably because I wasn't getting knocked down as much and doing more damage). I suppose I could have taken less because I killed it faster, but I think it was a disproportional amount of damage for 20 seconds. I might have to test this again, but if you're not immune using DF then at least you're going to take less damage if you kill it faster then.
Edit: Yeah ok, I was watching my health as I was flurrying and getting hit just now. I still take the damage. But DF should kill the thing faster meaning I'll take less because it was dead faster.
Stealth (5 Seconds)
Shadow Strike
Stealth (5 Seconds)
Stealth cooldown (~10 seconds)
Total Stealth uptime (10 seconds out of 20 seconds)
At this point shadow strike is up and the cycle repeats. I know eventually I will get another free stealth due to using dailies but at this point I have no idea how you get that kind of upkeep. Please let me know so that I know what to expect at higher levels, thanks!