Is this game even worth continuing to play?

nicknameschmickname · May 2013

As someone who respects other people, hates exploits with a passion and will never use them, plays mostly solo and solely for fun?

It seems like to get ahead in this game you literally have to be a ******bag and exploit anything that you possibly can. This is not the type of game I want to play. I've been having fun playing it so far, but I don't want that fun to be controlled by exploiters and ninjas.

lordtureilim · May 2013

Eh. I do just fine and I'm usually the same as you. Just develop that thick skin, my boy.

drpallisade · May 2013

This forum is full of threads which you can make your "own" decision on playing the game.

If you mostly play solo then go do so or find a guild that suits you and you may have more fun.

magdev0 · May 2013

Basically, just deal w/it. Exploiters will probably get banned or something, I dunno. If you play solo, then you shouldn't have to deal with people exploiting very much. Just have fun.

bluereverend · May 2013

What is it that's being denied to you by not using the exploits? or by others using them? I'm not saying its okay for them to do that, but how is that affecting your solo play?

tbldrparanoid · May 2013

These "exploits" are bugs that need to be evened out - and guess what, that's what a beta is for! Just play, report bugs, and it will be mostly fine and dandy on release.

vaeledrin · May 2013

nicknameschmickname wrote: »

As someone who respects other people, hates exploits with a passion and will never use them, plays mostly solo and solely for fun?

It seems like to get ahead in this game you literally have to be a ******bag and exploit anything that you possibly can. This is not the type of game I want to play. I've been having fun playing it so far, but I don't want that fun to be controlled by exploiters and ninjas.

Don't PvP. Play with a small group of friends or find a guild with like minded people. Enjoy the dungeons by buying the cheap epics so you don't have to grind and take your time to explore them.

But wait... solo? With the queue system being as it is and the current atmosphere, you're probably just better off waiting for a month before playing again.

If you do PvP then you better start playing the AH, being a ******bag, and possibly exploit in order to catch up or you can just pay money or be a detriment to your team if the enemy happens to be stacked - very small possibility but still there.

gigplay · May 2013

If what you mean by "get ahead" is getting good t2 sets and the so-called "ownage" pvp gear then you're (as well as the rest of us who play honestly) already way way behind and will probably not catch up since there's always gonna be new "ownage" shi-t coming out.

nicknameschmickname · May 2013

bluereverend wrote: »

What is it that's being denied to you by not using the exploits? or by others using them? I'm not saying its okay for them to do that, but how is that affecting your solo play?

Well, my thinking being was that I will not be solo at 60 and will usually have to rely on the random queues and auction house, both of which are being heavily affected by exploiters and jerks currently.

I'm used to dealing with jerks in MMOs, but not with this level of indifference they receive from the company making it.

highropes · May 2013

If you have been having fun playing this game, there is no reason for you to just stop. Unless you want to get disgusted, then you should read all these forum threads here and you might actually want to quit after that.

If you ask me, the devs are doing awesome job quickly patching everything and the game itself is very entertaining to play. I don't feel I have to exploit single bug to achieve anything.

vaeledrin · May 2013

bluereverend wrote: »

What is it that's being denied to you by not using the exploits? or by others using them? I'm not saying its okay for them to do that, but how is that affecting your solo play?

Groups will eventually screw him over by need rolling everything when it comes to dungeons, that or blitzing through things. As a 'solo' player, I doubt he's going to find a guild as that would mean affiliation with one organization or another. Skirmish chests will be denied to him since others will rush first to it 'exploiting' the fact that only one person can get it. He may be booted from groups right before the loot rolls go out etc.

He can't PvP either because of the resource differences and expect consistent results. It is where that whole pay2win thing comes in. Since the markets have crashed it'll be even harder to earn AD so by a year or so without 'exploiting' or manipulating the AH he'll be on par. So, fair play is denied to him because he refuses to 'exploit' or be a '******bag' . And, even though they said they would fix it, I think people will still find a way to AFK in PvP and he will suffer uneven teams more often than not leading to a less enjoyable experience.

He's also denied using the market because it's filled with gear that has been exploited. I am guessing that's off limits too. So, basically, the chances of him having a bad experience increases the second he hits 60 or whenever he goes into a group. He's solely confined to Foundry experiences some of which may require gear which means he has to go into the wider public... which is full of ******bags.

In the grim dark future of Neverwinter there are only exploits.

lordtureilim · May 2013

On the other hand he can come across the genuinely good players that are still here as well...I did a party today for a dungeon.. No one ninja'd. When they Needed, it was for their own class, or they asked if they could Need before hand. This was not a pre-arranged group. It was me, one friend, and 3 utter strangers.

Yes, there are exploiters.

Yes. There are pricks. But yes...There are good folk here to have fun with. Develop that thick skin.

gigplay · May 2013

vaeledrin wrote: »

Groups will eventually screw him over by need rolling everything when it comes to dungeons, that or blitzing through things. As a 'solo' player, I doubt he's going to find a guild as that would mean affiliation with one organization or another. Skirmish chests will be denied to him since others will rush first to it 'exploiting' the fact that only one person can get it. He may be booted from groups right before the loot rolls go out etc.

He can't PvP either because of the resource differences and expect consistent results. It is where that whole pay2win thing comes in. Since the markets have crashed it'll be even harder to earn AD so by a year or so without 'exploiting' or manipulating the AH he'll be on par. So, fair play is denied to him because he refuses to 'exploit' or be a '******bag' . And, even though they said they would fix it, I think people will still find a way to AFK in PvP and he will suffer uneven teams more often than not leading to a less enjoyable experience.

He's also denied using the market because it's filled with gear that has been exploited. I am guessing that's off limits too. So, basically, the chances of him having a bad experience increases the second he hits 60 or whenever he goes into a group. He's solely confined to Foundry experiences some of which may require gear which means he has to go into the wider public... which is full of ******bags.

In the grim dark future of Neverwinter there are only exploits.

True that, and I feel like more and more people are just gonna cave in and become a "******bag" as well, because if you can't beat 'em, mind as well join 'em... or maybe I'm just being cynical.

nicknameschmickname · May 2013

lordtureilim wrote: »

On the other hand he can come across the genuinely good players that are still here as well...I did a party today for a dungeon.. No one ninja'd. When they Needed, it was for their own class, or they asked if they could Need before hand. This was not a pre-arranged group. It was me, one friend, and 3 utter strangers.

Yes, there are exploiters.

Yes. There are pricks. But yes...There are good folk here to have fun with. Develop that thick skin.

See, I have found a few people like that, but I just genuinely hate the feeling that those types of people are in the minority.

steppenkat · May 2013

Doom, doom, doom!

Sorry, jusk kidding. The game is worth playing if you don't value the objectives exploiters have (ego-stroking and PvP facerolling, basically).

Just find a guild and have fun.

lordtureilim · May 2013

nicknameschmickname wrote: »

See, I have found a few people like that, but I just genuinely hate the feeling that those types of people are in the minority.

Just try and remember the nice ones are usually the quiet ones. The undesirables are the ones clogging up the chat channels. Just takes more effort to see the gems.

pressexpose1 · May 2013

only you can answer that. I really dislike a lot of what's going on in game. Most but not all, are related to the developers not the players. But i'm still playing it now. Will i be next week? Doubtful. But it's new so we take a look right? I certainly won't be investing the same time or money that I did in Star Trek Online that's for sure. That game is little better than the day it launched ( also in beta ) which tells me the direction this game will also go.

vaeledrin · May 2013

lordtureilim wrote: »

Just try and remember the nice ones are usually the quiet ones. The undesirables are the ones clogging up the chat channels. Just takes more effort to see the gems.

When I am being a ******bag who intends to do damage I am very quiet.

For example, there was this one wizard in my group who kept using ice storm and made zero efforts to actually kill the adds - I had to intervene and do almost all the add killing - and he had the gall to tell me not to use shard of the endless avalanche ( a perfectly legitimate spell that barely moves mobs around) . So, I essentially just need rolled against him on every single item and succeeded in depriving him of loot.

I didn't say a **** thing throughout that entire run except "

" when I took loot that I obviously did not need.

spyke2009 · May 2013

you're asking subjective opinion from strangers. Which more often than not leads to fallacies disguised as facts.

For example, given you hate the "need on everything and exploit like hell" approach, then given those elements, the game is not worth "taking seriously" not that you SHOULD take a game seriously like that really, but hopefully you understand what I mean by that.

Then again, like everything. That's my subjective opinion, and you can reject it all you like.

When I am being a ******bag who intends to do damage I am very quiet.

For example, there was this one wizard in my group who kept using ice storm and made zero efforts to actually kill the adds - I had to intervene and do almost all the add killing - and he had the gall to tell me not to use shard of the endless avalanche ( a perfectly legitimate spell that barely moves mobs around) . So, I essentially just need rolled against him on every single item and succeeded in depriving him of loot.

I didn't say a **** thing throughout that entire run except " " when I took loot that I obviously did not need.

this is my kinda player. And how you combat stupidity and bad play.

lordtureilim · May 2013

vaeledrin wrote: »

When I am being a ******bag who intends to do damage I am very quiet.

For example, there was this one wizard in my group who kept using ice storm and made zero efforts to actually kill the adds - I had to intervene and do almost all the add killing - and he had the gall to tell me not to use shard of the endless avalanche ( a perfectly legitimate spell that barely moves mobs around) . So, I essentially just need rolled against him on every single item and succeeded in depriving him of loot.

I didn't say a **** thing throughout that entire run except " " when I took loot that I obviously did not need.

That's karmic justice. Not ******baggery. YOU FIGHT FOR THE SIDE OF VALOR.

pressexpose1 · May 2013

vaeledrin wrote: »

When I am being a ******bag who intends to do damage I am very quiet.

For example, there was this one wizard in my group who kept using ice storm and made zero efforts to actually kill the adds - I had to intervene and do almost all the add killing - and he had the gall to tell me not to use shard of the endless avalanche ( a perfectly legitimate spell that barely moves mobs around) . So, I essentially just need rolled against him on every single item and succeeded in depriving him of loot.

I didn't say a **** thing throughout that entire run except " " when I took loot that I obviously did not need.

so you acted selfishly rather than try and educate him? That's why pugs fail. Not fail as in not reach their goals, but fail as an experience. Complaining about the inability of others whilst demonstrating no effort to be helpful and teach them is the biggest failure of all for an MMO.

vaeledrin · May 2013

lordtureilim wrote: »

That's karmic justice. Not ******baggery. YOU FIGHT FOR THE SIDE OF VALOR.

I don't really trust any definition of 'justice' from an Angry Marine to be honest.

I didn't need that loot and two wrongs do not make a right. =(

But you have to admit, even though this is out of scope of the discussion, that a game should not require its participants to develop thick skin to enjoy all aspects of it. We come here to play for enjoyment not for emotional scarring. It kind of sucks that we have to advise each other to develop thick skin in order to enjoy other aspects and possibly critical aspects of the game.

nicknameschmickname · May 2013

spyke2009 wrote: »

you're asking subjective opinion from strangers. Which more often than not leads to fallacies disguised as facts.

For example, given you hate the "need on everything and exploit like hell" approach, then given those elements, the game is not worth "taking seriously" not that you SHOULD take a game seriously like that really, but hopefully you understand what I mean by that.

Then again, like everything. That's my subjective opinion, and you can reject it all you like.

this is my kinda player. And how you combat stupidity and bad play.

Oh, I've been on the internet for quite awhile, I have quite a good ability to separate opinions and leaps in logic from hard facts. But this thread was about getting opinions, mainly to see if I was misguided in feeling this way or if it was the general feeling of a lot of the community, just a disheartened sense of cynicism.

vaeledrin · May 2013

pressexpose1 wrote: »

so you acted selfishly rather than try and educate him? That's why pugs fail. Not fail as in not reach their goals, but fail as an experience. Complaining about the inability of others whilst demonstrating no effort to be helpful and teach them is the biggest failure of all for an MMO.

Toxicity begets toxicity.

While yes, I could have easily taken the moral high ground but it was far too amusing watching my fellow CW DPS race (against the rogues) throwing out as many dailies as he could without any regards to the situation around him. Boss near 75% health? No problem, I'll ice knife so I don't have any dailies to deal with the adds. But you know what, I know my own capabilities and can carry the other CW (he's doing decent single target at least...) when it really matters - the last boss fight. So, for the most part I would say that the experience didn't fail at all ... everyone got to the end and got something out of it as it was Dungeon Delve time.

Everyone had a 'good time' except the one CW who I selected against and I am sure he had , on average, a decent experience even if he was 'cheated' from loot. He could brag how he 'beat' the other CW in the damage meter by two million! I pretty much went AFK on almost all the trash and most of the minor bosses up until the end. I mean, really, it was Cragmire Crypt and the only chance of wiping was at the pirate (which we nearly did because the other CW did nothing to 'control' - DPS or otherwise the adds).

You can only teach those who are willing to be taught. The middle of a dungeon run is not the time and place to teach when other members of the group is racing towards the finish. You can say I was complaining about the inability of my peer whilst demonstrating no effort to be helpful but I could NOT be helpful under those circumstances either.

It's funny how you place the blame on me, and I do accept all of it, but you should be keenly aware that the bigger issue is that Cryptic does not understand how to educate its player base. It does not understand nor have the resources to deal with player toxicity. If you do not make the environment conducive to learning, if you do not give players concrete ways to show other players what is right and what is wrong then our game has turned into a round of the prisoner's dilemma.

So really why would you first blame the player rather than the system? Why should the players shoulder the burden that the system doesn't even bother to address or mitigate? Why should we be responsible when the designers do not and will not care? Why should I fight alone and ruin my own experience?

spyke2009 · May 2013

nicknameschmickname wrote: »

Oh, I've been on the internet for quite awhile, I have quite a good ability to separate opinions and leaps in logic from hard facts. But this thread was about getting opinions, mainly to see if I was misguided in feeling this way or if it was the general feeling of a lot of the community, just a disheartened sense of cynicism.

Cynicism is what you'll find, if I'm to be completely honest and give you what's my somewhat controversial opinion then.

You've three groups at play,

The first either have deluded themselves that this is perfect and rationalized and justified the paradigms of the monetization of this game in their head to the point they sound like abused partners in toxic and violent relationships.

"He's a good man, he only hit me a couple of times, every other time he's perfect"

Then you have the opposing side, who are trying in vain to attack the monetization practices and falling RIGHT into the clearly designed logic traps. Complain about the time it takes to get ad to convert to ZEN? "you're lucky they let you make ZEN at all"
Complain about the quality of the game and lack of polish "It's a FREE game doood"
Complain about the imbalancing aspect of the buying of items "everyone can buy them though and convert AD to ZEN to do so" or "You shouldn't let it bother you when it's just a game" orrrrrr the latest one "The economy is fine" basically they're up <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> creek without a paddle in terms of arguments and more often than not, just feeding trolls.

"omg, so p2w <insert painful vacuum like emptiness here where actual solid rationalization should be>

And then there's everyone in the middle, that clearly realize that in ALL this time nothing has been said on any of the REAL matters by PWE aside from one or two tiny comments on different aspects. Where's their spokesperson?

"Well, it IS free to play, and it IS a PWE title. Does it surprise you"

nawdle · May 2013

Don't listen to the forums- everyone comes here to complain, nobody ever comes here to say what a great time they're having- they're too busy having a great time.

spyke2009 · May 2013

nawdle wrote: »

Don't listen to the forums- everyone comes here to complain, nobody ever comes here to say what a great time they're having- they're too busy having a great time.

You're indirectly right about folks not coming to the forum, but the door swings both ways, and many just leave without giving feedback on the forum, where are these in your all seeing claim?

Your post is based on fallacy.

pelarius2046 · May 2013

Who cares what other people, does it REALLY affect you? Just play the game while you enjoy it.

drpallisade · May 2013

You cant give feedback on this forum or you get the high and mighty which nothing else to do but complain and bully other users, no sorry I couldn't be bothered with any more of it.

e11z · May 2013

Here's some food for thought OP.

What is better.

Taking Steroids to get shredded like a sic cahnt' - to enter a contest that you would've won if it wasn't for that pesky drug test. you lose your fake wife that only liked you for the fame, your kids that are all little brats, you get put in jail, you become a junky, your ARM EXPLODES AND YOU contract Herpes from the prostitute.

Or Working it for 3 years - you gain respect at the gym, you get a healthy lifestyle, but you come 2nd place in the contest... BUT because you are such a regular good guy (helping others out at the gym) you get a wicked well paid job that makes you meet the dream woman that you marry and have a great house and a great family.

I know which i would want @OP.

calamintha · May 2013

lordtureilim wrote: »

On the other hand he can come across the genuinely good players that are still here as well...I did a party today for a dungeon.. No one ninja'd. When they Needed, it was for their own class, or they asked if they could Need before hand. This was not a pre-arranged group. It was me, one friend, and 3 utter strangers.

Last night I lost a GF sword from the last boss to a cleric. We were the only 2 needing and it would've been a big upgrade to me.

Oh well.

Is this game even worth continuing to play?

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