Taking Steroids to get shredded like a sic cahnt' - to enter a contest that you would've won if it wasn't for that pesky drug test. you lose your fake wife that only liked you for the fame, your kids that are all little brats, you get put in jail, you become a junky, your ARM EXPLODES AND YOU contract Herpes from the prostitute.
Or Working it for 3 years - you gain respect at the gym, you get a healthy lifestyle, but you come 2nd place in the contest... BUT because you are such a regular good guy (helping others out at the gym) you get a wicked well paid job that makes you meet the dream woman that you marry and have a great house and a great family.
Taking Steroids to get shredded like a sic cahnt' - to enter a contest that you would've won if it wasn't for that pesky drug test. you lose your fake wife that only liked you for the fame, your kids that are all little brats, you get put in jail, you become a junky, your ARM EXPLODES AND YOU contract Herpes from the prostitute.
Or Working it for 3 years - you gain respect at the gym, you get a healthy lifestyle, but you come 2nd place in the contest... BUT because you are such a regular good guy (helping others out at the gym) you get a wicked well paid job that makes you meet the dream woman that you marry and have a great house and a great family.
Or you take steroids like everyone else and have moderate to high success anyways. The analogy falls apart when you actually begin to do research into steroids and how proper cycles are maintained. Afterwards, you look at the competitive circles for body building or weight lifting and realize that even second place is pretty unlikely without some kind of supplementation. Etc. etc.
It really doesn't work that way. You should take steroids and just do it in moderation.
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steppenkatMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Cynicism is what you'll find, if I'm to be completely honest and give you what's my somewhat controversial opinion then.
You've three groups at play,
The first either have deluded themselves that this is perfect and rationalized and justified the paradigms of the monetization of this game in their head to the point they sound like abused partners in toxic and violent relationships.
"He's a good man, he only hit me a couple of times, every other time he's perfect"
Then you have the opposing side, who are trying in vain to attack the monetization practices and falling RIGHT into the clearly designed logic traps. Complain about the time it takes to get ad to convert to ZEN? "you're lucky they let you make ZEN at all"
Complain about the quality of the game and lack of polish "It's a FREE game doood"
Complain about the imbalancing aspect of the buying of items "everyone can buy them though and convert AD to ZEN to do so" or "You shouldn't let it bother you when it's just a game" orrrrrr the latest one "The economy is fine" basically they're up <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> creek without a paddle in terms of arguments and more often than not, just feeding trolls.
"omg, so p2w <insert painful vacuum like emptiness here where actual solid rationalization should be>
And then there's everyone in the middle, that clearly realize that in ALL this time nothing has been said on any of the REAL matters by PWE aside from one or two tiny comments on different aspects. Where's their spokesperson?
"Well, it IS free to play, and it IS a PWE title. Does it surprise you"
Yes, because FtP business model is totally comparable to gender violence...
It's sad how people twist their arguments to turn what's their opinion in what they truly believe to be solid fact. Often putting examples that are a complete display of bad taste and, in my honest opinion, childish behavior.
As a famous meme would say... First world problems.
Characters: - Titania Silverblade, the Iron Rose of Myth Drannor (Lvl 60 GWF, Destroyer) - Gwyneth, the Cowardly Cat Burglar Drowling (Lvl 60 TR, Saboteur) - Lady Rowanne Firehair, Heartwarder of Sune (Lvl 33 DC) - Satella, Sensate (LvL 44 CW, Renegade, Non-Active)
As someone who respects other people, hates exploits with a passion and will never use them, plays mostly solo and solely for fun?
It seems like to get ahead in this game you literally have to be a ******bag and exploit anything that you possibly can. This is not the type of game I want to play. I've been having fun playing it so far, but I don't want that fun to be controlled by exploiters and ninjas.
If you really play mostly solo and mostly for fun, then it does not matter at all if you are ahead or behind. The only potential problem is maybe end game dungeon, but if you like soloing as much as I do, then your end game might be the foundry, not what PW create.
Right, to get an enlarged heart and other organs. Great idea... please educate yourself before suggesting anymore harmful bs. You gain weight/muscle by dedicating time, sweat, effort and a proper diet. One can get shred within 3 weeks, from fat to muscular. And can gain up to 500 grams of muscle on a weekly basis. Ok it takes a lot of intelligence to pull through this, i guess this is why many steroid users cannot even write their own name properly and are risking their health going the fast lazy way just because they are incompetent to do it correctly.
Learn 2 real life, ty.
Intelligence AND effort. Meanwhile, need to stop being lazy here. :O
Right, to get an enlarged heart and other organs. Great idea... please educate yourself before suggesting anymore harmful bs. You gain weight/muscle by dedicating time, sweat, effort and a proper diet. One can get shred within 3 weeks, from fat to muscular. And can gain up to 500 grams of muscle on a weekly basis. Ok it takes a lot of intelligence to pull through this, i guess this is why many steroid users cannot even write their own name properly and are risking their health going the fast lazy way just because they are incompetent to do it correctly.
Learn 2 real life, ty.
Cite your sources, bro.
There's a reason why I said 'moderate'. But I think what's more important is that you are incapable of reading critically and addressing the argument as such. We're talking about competitive body building and weight lifting since the person before me was talking about winning a contest and placing in second.
You also don't bother to mention who that 'one' is. For example, if we take a gander at television (I know it's a horrible place) and look at the show "The Biggest Losers" you really think you could get those guys to be shredded within 3 weeks? Because I am pretty sure they're trying (some harder than others).
You know what. I am going to Godwin this and say that even Auschwitz couldn't get you shredded in 3 weeks in a lot of cases. I mean they really try hard. I mean ... really hard!
A lot of steroid users work hard and if not harder, that's the whole point of it, and it takes discipline to compete at those levels because everything little detail counts. You really think that Lance Armstrong didn't bust his *** off or Ahhnold for that matter? And yeah 500g of muscle on a weekly basis - how are you measuring it ? Water retention included?
You tell me to learn 2 real life when that's pretty much how it works. People use steroids in moderation to compete at the highest level, some will destroy their bodies and some will be caught but our society demands it because it what entertains us. When it comes to drug use PhD candidates are notorious for it but you know what... they must be lazy too. Musicians who are competing for chairs? They must be lazy too and unintelligent. And yes, I realize I am extending this to a broader spectrum of drug use all of which can be dangerous if not done with moderation (or if you're just plain unlucky though hopefully the person in question does some research).
But you know what, the real question is how to approach this game and it's pretty simple. If you don't want to pay you must exploit others or exploit the system. So, take your steroids do it in moderation and enjoy success that comes with the hard work you put in because it'll pay in higher dividends than just hard work alone.
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steppenkatMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
From what I recall of a friend telling me, competitive body building is practically impossible without some steroid supplements, though which are safer to use and the amount, I do not know.
Characters: - Titania Silverblade, the Iron Rose of Myth Drannor (Lvl 60 GWF, Destroyer) - Gwyneth, the Cowardly Cat Burglar Drowling (Lvl 60 TR, Saboteur) - Lady Rowanne Firehair, Heartwarder of Sune (Lvl 33 DC) - Satella, Sensate (LvL 44 CW, Renegade, Non-Active)
From what I recall of a friend telling me, competitive body building is practically impossible without some steroid supplements, though which are safer to use and the amount, I do not know.
Mein Fuhrerin,
That is why I said the analogy breaks apart. You really can't get second place even in the 'natural circuit' in many competitions. At least not the ones at Venice Beach.
The safe dosage depends on the individual, usually you'll have a doctor monitoring you throughout, and usually you increase dosage gradually so you can see what adverse effects there might be just as with any medication.
I recommend you install a new policy for our soldiers on the front lines especially the Guardian Fighters. They need steroids so they can hold aggression from mobs better. Possibly also the Great Weapon Fighters as they lack the oomph until late game. Though given your tastes... elves on roids is kind of weird mein Fuhrerin. But, substance before style please. I don't want to lose another World War.
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steppenkatMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
Haha. I would make a very lousy dictator, though. I may look mean in the forums, but ingame and IRL I'm a lot more soft. :P
About GWF... I'm starting to think that the only twink the class needs is to have Punishing Charge available at earlier levels. It's a complete before-and-after change that gives them tons of mobility (actual mitigation).
Characters: - Titania Silverblade, the Iron Rose of Myth Drannor (Lvl 60 GWF, Destroyer) - Gwyneth, the Cowardly Cat Burglar Drowling (Lvl 60 TR, Saboteur) - Lady Rowanne Firehair, Heartwarder of Sune (Lvl 33 DC) - Satella, Sensate (LvL 44 CW, Renegade, Non-Active)
Yes, because FtP business model is totally comparable to gender violence...
It's sad how people twist their arguments to turn what's their opinion in what they truly believe to be solid fact. Often putting examples that are a complete display of bad taste and, in my honest opinion, childish behavior.
As a famous meme would say... First world problems.
I did state it was an opinion, and for the most part and only excluding a few posters, a lot of the time the vapid responses that defend this game are again, in my opinion. Very similar to someone who's got stockholm syndrome... and have identified with their tormentors and are defending them.
I can agree to disagree, but if you dislike my analogy. Well... tough.. I never said you were of the offending group though.
My only fault I've seen of your logic has been to incorporate your own personal interest in roleplaying and having a character fit into some set of rules due to that. To paraphrase
"My character wouldn't forget she was a <insert playstyle here> and suddenly become a <insert alternate playstyle here> unless I found <insert upcoming paragon tree here> suited that chosen role better"
This of course, with all due respect, is just limitations you've chosen to set on yourself, and can't really be used as an argument about respec's because it isn't a mandatory limitation for all. Then again, I could have misread what you said. So to repeat a phrase that this forum instills in me with it's INCESSSANT F*****G BICKERING!
"meh"
By all means, make compelling arguments or continue to do so I welcome them wholeheartedly. But It's going to take a lot to make the usual offenders suddenly start making sense, you know the cop out's that I'm referring to, the go-to answers that resolve nothing and the badly worded ad hominem garbage. It's those that I was referring to.
Haha. I would make a very lousy dictator, though. I may look mean in the forums, but ingame and IRL I'm a lot more soft. :P
About GWF... I'm starting to think that the only twink the class needs is to have Punishing Charge available at earlier levels. It's a complete before-and-after change that gives them tons of mobility (actual mitigation).
Mein Fuhrerin,
Your signatures make me doubt that, I think you already have your police state (at least it doesn't involve Drizzt - Drow scum). But that aside, your generosity and kindness when it matters is a sign of your sagacity and magnanimity. Do not doubt yourself!
I really think that GWF need to be able to use Determination in reaction to CCs.
This is the reason, why many other mmo-hosting companies bann IP addresses of certain geographical regions, such as russia, china etc. for obvious reasons. The same should be done here, too to prevent this from happening again. Many countries do not have laws against internet crime, then the kiddies go all crazy. I personally think an IQ test at the login screen would solve the majority of all problems this game has at this point.
You do know that PWE already blocks these areas right? The only people from these areas who can login are those who had a Cryptic account before PWE brought Cryptic.
This is the reason, why many other mmo-hosting companies bann IP addresses of certain geographical regions, such as russia, china etc. for obvious reasons. The same should be done here, too to prevent this from happening again. Many countries do not have laws against internet crime, then the kiddies go all crazy. I personally think an IQ test at the login screen would solve the majority of all problems this game has at this point.
Like kiddies in any other part of the world are any differrent. And something prevents those kiddies from using hacks and exploits in the games that utilize region blocks. Get off your high horse.
With the news about Rift going free to play and watching their video about it, it's clear just how bad Neverwinter's free to play model is.
Neverwinter wreaks of moneygrubbing. It's obvious that some people are willing to tolerate it, some paying upward of $200.00 before release, insane imo, but nonetheless a fact. Most people however, will not tolerate it for long, the model is just too intrusive to the gameplay. I've said it before and I'll say it again, F2P should not restrict 'functional features' or access to content. Microtransactions should be entirely for quality of life items, appearance, mounts, etc.
The game feels like a time share seminar, sure you're getting something for free, but you have to put up with shady sales gimmicks every step of the way.
Anyway... heated topic, this is just my opinion /shrug
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archanjo17041985Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
Nop.
/10char
i7 3770k @ 4.0//HD 7950 WF3//16 GB ram Corsair @ 1600//Corsair 120 GB SSD x 2//Hyper Evo 212
With the news about Rift going free to play and watching their video about it, it's clear just how bad Neverwinter's free to play model is.
Neverwinter wreaks of moneygrubbing. It's obvious that some people are willing to tolerate it, some paying upward of $200.00 before release, insane imo, but nonetheless a fact. Most people however, will not tolerate it for long, the model is just too intrusive to the gameplay. I've said it before and I'll say it again, F2P should not restrict 'functional features' or access to content. Microtransactions should be entirely for quality of life items, appearance, mounts, etc.
The game feels like a time share seminar, sure you're getting something for free, but you have to put up with shady sales gimmicks every step of the way.
Anyway... heated topic, this is just my opinion /shrug
The thing is RIFT isn't going to hurt Neverwinters bottom line, for those who think RIFT sucks (which is a considerable number) all the F2P in the world won't make it suck any less. Despite a few forums misgivings PWE cash shop models are very sucsessful, hordes of people are still spending money hands over fist in STO, heck despite it basically being put on maintenance mode CO is still packed and nearly everyone in that game is wearing something from the cash shop.
Neverwinter isn't going to be different, we see all the time on twitter how the devs are blown away about the sheer number of people playing, they had to take the Nightmare lockbox offline a couple days back because the system couldn't handle the rate at which they were being bought.
No Neverwinter isn't everyone's cup of tea but anyone who thinks that the sales and popularity is going to go away when RIFT goes F2P, or Wildstar/TESO is released is really deluding themselves. F2P MMO's for the most part are really profitable, the days of their can be only one are pretty much gone.
joining pvp to get kicked by group leader because he was told to get out of spawn and help.. in turn getting bugged for a while... ya thats fun... delving into a dungeon only to have a couple people gone and not being able to replace / fill the slots... thats fun.... wasting 35$ for a companion and not being able to unbind him to move him to and alt due to buying a new one for your lvl 60.. ya thats fun...having a group of 4 join dungeon queue only to have lead strippeed and given to the 1 outsider from matchmaker, and he turns around and starts booting your tank because he deems him unworthy... ya thats fun...
i can go on, bottom line is.. the game is seriouslly broken and i see no real progress by the dev getting things together. and before some of you kids start crying "its beta" .. ill leave this link here... http://www.perfectworld.com/
That being said, it's a MMO. A F2PMMO at that. There will be ninja's. And jerks. And trolls. And kids doing instances with characters they don't know how to play. And gold farmers. And people that don't speak your native language. And entitled know-it-all's that insist you're doing it wrong no matter what it is you're doing.
If the community bothers you, ignore it. Join a guild, or make a guild, and play with people who think and play like you do. Disable zone chat. There is nothing there you will ever need, unless you're trying to do a dungeon outside the queue.
MoF/Thaum CWSS/Thaum CWIV/Protector GFSW/Combat HRSM/Destroyer GWFWK/Executioner TRDO/Faithful DC
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lollieMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Comments
What is this...I don't even...
an analogy, they seem to be everywhere
in seriousness though he was analogizing exploiting to more legitimate play
Or you take steroids like everyone else and have moderate to high success anyways. The analogy falls apart when you actually begin to do research into steroids and how proper cycles are maintained. Afterwards, you look at the competitive circles for body building or weight lifting and realize that even second place is pretty unlikely without some kind of supplementation. Etc. etc.
It really doesn't work that way. You should take steroids and just do it in moderation.
Yes, because FtP business model is totally comparable to gender violence...
It's sad how people twist their arguments to turn what's their opinion in what they truly believe to be solid fact. Often putting examples that are a complete display of bad taste and, in my honest opinion, childish behavior.
As a famous meme would say... First world problems.
- Titania Silverblade, the Iron Rose of Myth Drannor (Lvl 60 GWF, Destroyer)
- Gwyneth, the Cowardly Cat Burglar Drowling (Lvl 60 TR, Saboteur)
- Lady Rowanne Firehair, Heartwarder of Sune (Lvl 33 DC)
- Satella, Sensate (LvL 44 CW, Renegade, Non-Active)
Check Steppenkat's Foundry Quest Reviews!
If you really play mostly solo and mostly for fun, then it does not matter at all if you are ahead or behind. The only potential problem is maybe end game dungeon, but if you like soloing as much as I do, then your end game might be the foundry, not what PW create.
This is an open beta. Start treating it like one.
Cite your sources, bro.
There's a reason why I said 'moderate'. But I think what's more important is that you are incapable of reading critically and addressing the argument as such. We're talking about competitive body building and weight lifting since the person before me was talking about winning a contest and placing in second.
You also don't bother to mention who that 'one' is. For example, if we take a gander at television (I know it's a horrible place) and look at the show "The Biggest Losers" you really think you could get those guys to be shredded within 3 weeks? Because I am pretty sure they're trying (some harder than others).
You know what. I am going to Godwin this and say that even Auschwitz couldn't get you shredded in 3 weeks in a lot of cases. I mean they really try hard. I mean ... really hard!
A lot of steroid users work hard and if not harder, that's the whole point of it, and it takes discipline to compete at those levels because everything little detail counts. You really think that Lance Armstrong didn't bust his *** off or Ahhnold for that matter? And yeah 500g of muscle on a weekly basis - how are you measuring it ? Water retention included?
You tell me to learn 2 real life when that's pretty much how it works. People use steroids in moderation to compete at the highest level, some will destroy their bodies and some will be caught but our society demands it because it what entertains us. When it comes to drug use PhD candidates are notorious for it but you know what... they must be lazy too. Musicians who are competing for chairs? They must be lazy too and unintelligent. And yes, I realize I am extending this to a broader spectrum of drug use all of which can be dangerous if not done with moderation (or if you're just plain unlucky though hopefully the person in question does some research).
But you know what, the real question is how to approach this game and it's pretty simple. If you don't want to pay you must exploit others or exploit the system. So, take your steroids do it in moderation and enjoy success that comes with the hard work you put in because it'll pay in higher dividends than just hard work alone.
- Titania Silverblade, the Iron Rose of Myth Drannor (Lvl 60 GWF, Destroyer)
- Gwyneth, the Cowardly Cat Burglar Drowling (Lvl 60 TR, Saboteur)
- Lady Rowanne Firehair, Heartwarder of Sune (Lvl 33 DC)
- Satella, Sensate (LvL 44 CW, Renegade, Non-Active)
Check Steppenkat's Foundry Quest Reviews!
Mein Fuhrerin,
That is why I said the analogy breaks apart. You really can't get second place even in the 'natural circuit' in many competitions. At least not the ones at Venice Beach.
The safe dosage depends on the individual, usually you'll have a doctor monitoring you throughout, and usually you increase dosage gradually so you can see what adverse effects there might be just as with any medication.
I recommend you install a new policy for our soldiers on the front lines especially the Guardian Fighters. They need steroids so they can hold aggression from mobs better. Possibly also the Great Weapon Fighters as they lack the oomph until late game. Though given your tastes... elves on roids is kind of weird mein Fuhrerin. But, substance before style please. I don't want to lose another World War.
About GWF... I'm starting to think that the only twink the class needs is to have Punishing Charge available at earlier levels. It's a complete before-and-after change that gives them tons of mobility (actual mitigation).
- Titania Silverblade, the Iron Rose of Myth Drannor (Lvl 60 GWF, Destroyer)
- Gwyneth, the Cowardly Cat Burglar Drowling (Lvl 60 TR, Saboteur)
- Lady Rowanne Firehair, Heartwarder of Sune (Lvl 33 DC)
- Satella, Sensate (LvL 44 CW, Renegade, Non-Active)
Check Steppenkat's Foundry Quest Reviews!
I did state it was an opinion, and for the most part and only excluding a few posters, a lot of the time the vapid responses that defend this game are again, in my opinion. Very similar to someone who's got stockholm syndrome... and have identified with their tormentors and are defending them.
I can agree to disagree, but if you dislike my analogy. Well... tough.. I never said you were of the offending group though.
My only fault I've seen of your logic has been to incorporate your own personal interest in roleplaying and having a character fit into some set of rules due to that. To paraphrase
"My character wouldn't forget she was a <insert playstyle here> and suddenly become a <insert alternate playstyle here> unless I found <insert upcoming paragon tree here> suited that chosen role better"
This of course, with all due respect, is just limitations you've chosen to set on yourself, and can't really be used as an argument about respec's because it isn't a mandatory limitation for all. Then again, I could have misread what you said. So to repeat a phrase that this forum instills in me with it's INCESSSANT F*****G BICKERING!
"meh"
By all means, make compelling arguments or continue to do so I welcome them wholeheartedly. But It's going to take a lot to make the usual offenders suddenly start making sense, you know the cop out's that I'm referring to, the go-to answers that resolve nothing and the badly worded ad hominem garbage. It's those that I was referring to.
Mein Fuhrerin,
Your signatures make me doubt that, I think you already have your police state (at least it doesn't involve Drizzt - Drow scum). But that aside, your generosity and kindness when it matters is a sign of your sagacity and magnanimity. Do not doubt yourself!
I really think that GWF need to be able to use Determination in reaction to CCs.
You do know that PWE already blocks these areas right? The only people from these areas who can login are those who had a Cryptic account before PWE brought Cryptic.
Like kiddies in any other part of the world are any differrent. And something prevents those kiddies from using hacks and exploits in the games that utilize region blocks. Get off your high horse.
With the news about Rift going free to play and watching their video about it, it's clear just how bad Neverwinter's free to play model is.
Neverwinter wreaks of moneygrubbing. It's obvious that some people are willing to tolerate it, some paying upward of $200.00 before release, insane imo, but nonetheless a fact. Most people however, will not tolerate it for long, the model is just too intrusive to the gameplay. I've said it before and I'll say it again, F2P should not restrict 'functional features' or access to content. Microtransactions should be entirely for quality of life items, appearance, mounts, etc.
The game feels like a time share seminar, sure you're getting something for free, but you have to put up with shady sales gimmicks every step of the way.
Anyway... heated topic, this is just my opinion /shrug
/10char
The thing is RIFT isn't going to hurt Neverwinters bottom line, for those who think RIFT sucks (which is a considerable number) all the F2P in the world won't make it suck any less. Despite a few forums misgivings PWE cash shop models are very sucsessful, hordes of people are still spending money hands over fist in STO, heck despite it basically being put on maintenance mode CO is still packed and nearly everyone in that game is wearing something from the cash shop.
Neverwinter isn't going to be different, we see all the time on twitter how the devs are blown away about the sheer number of people playing, they had to take the Nightmare lockbox offline a couple days back because the system couldn't handle the rate at which they were being bought.
No Neverwinter isn't everyone's cup of tea but anyone who thinks that the sales and popularity is going to go away when RIFT goes F2P, or Wildstar/TESO is released is really deluding themselves. F2P MMO's for the most part are really profitable, the days of their can be only one are pretty much gone.
i can go on, bottom line is.. the game is seriouslly broken and i see no real progress by the dev getting things together. and before some of you kids start crying "its beta" .. ill leave this link here... http://www.perfectworld.com/
QED.
That being said, it's a MMO. A F2PMMO at that. There will be ninja's. And jerks. And trolls. And kids doing instances with characters they don't know how to play. And gold farmers. And people that don't speak your native language. And entitled know-it-all's that insist you're doing it wrong no matter what it is you're doing.
If the community bothers you, ignore it. Join a guild, or make a guild, and play with people who think and play like you do. Disable zone chat. There is nothing there you will ever need, unless you're trying to do a dungeon outside the queue.
Because sooner or later all content will be balanced to the level of gear the exploiters have, if all that are left playing are the exploiters.
The prices will be too high for the normal players.