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Rogue damage against full defense builds

ransham90ransham90 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
edited May 2013 in PvE Discussion
Yes! This is a whining post agains insane rogue criticals!

Let me explain what happened to me, i have a GWF with sentinel feats and full defense stat equip.

I have something like 3k defense, 46% damage reduction and 35% more or less deflection... 30k HP and 9k gear score.

This day started happily, i wanted to test my new defense build on my gwf and see the results... than BOOM.

27k critical on me from nowhere, a sec later i'm dead.

Who is going to pay my psychologist sessions now?! That was traumatic...

I mean... full defense build in 2 hits... mother of god...
Post edited by ransham90 on
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    todesfaelletodesfaelle Member Posts: 1,370 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    That must've been one lucky and well-equipped rogue. It's hard to get a crit on that attack you want unless it's Lashing Blade from Stealth then Shocking Execution.

    But without the crits and the DPS, we rogues are nothing. :\ Please don't take our role away from us. If we can't get high crits and high damage output we'd just be flimsy, stealthy punchbags. If we're caught without stealth by any other DPS class, we're one step nearer to being screwed in PVP from my experience. But I'm just a new level 60 who recently got my first set of tier 1 epic gear, so I can't really say for certain about our veteran rogue players.
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    ransham90ransham90 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    I believe there is something wrong about armor penetration, i mean there is no way somebody could deal that much damage without a huge amount of armor penetration...
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    rashakenrashaken Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 3 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    ransham90 wrote: »
    Yes! This is a whining post agains insane rogue criticals!

    Let me explain what happened to me, i have a GWF with sentinel feats and full defense stat equip.

    I have something like 3k defense, 46% damage reduction and 35% more or less deflection... 30k HP and 9k gear score.

    This day started happily, i wanted to test my new defense build on my gwf and see the results... than BOOM.

    27k critical on me from nowhere, a sec later i'm dead.

    Who is going to pay my psychologist sessions now?! That was traumatic...

    I mean... full defense build in 2 hits... mother of god...

    Rogue daily (cant remember hte name atm) ignores all defence and is incredibly strong, Very easy to get a 27k crit I average around 35-45k with it.
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    aitolosaitolos Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Well i already wrote that somewhere in the forums but its nice to share this also to the fellow gwf here hehe
    I also have gwf with full epic gear the most lol pvp experience for me until now is 1 shot dead by rogue 26.5k dmg and i was on unstoppable (resist incoming dmg 50% to 25%) XD

    edit: i dont blame the rogues i had the same luck of one shot with guardians and wizzard also but never from gwf
    something is wrong with the mechanics i hope they figure it out soon
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    novronnovron Member Posts: 84 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Some build for dex. Dex has a really nice modifier to armor penetration.
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    izidiusizidius Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 40
    edited May 2013
    Shocking Execution daily...hits like a truck.
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    etherealjetherealj Member Posts: 1,091 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    Shocking Execution ignores defenses for absolutely no good reason. It will continue to 1 shot people unless it or hp/level scaling changes pretty much forever.
    Use the <removed exploit lead-in> to interact with the auction vendor.
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    bondbpbbondbpb Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 7 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Now that the rogue uses his daily, and seeing how rogues have slow action point regeneration, the rogue is now vulnerable to being killed by most classes. Also, if lashing blade was used, that's most 20 seconds without that up also, so 2 skills are down. Stealth was used to sneak up to you, so he can't stealth unless he has a class mod that gave him a free stealth bar , but that lasts up to 6 seconds. So get revenge or have your party kill him while he is severely weakened! If your not traveling with your party, then that's your fault for leaving yourself vulnerable to a hit and run class.
    23.jpg
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    majtrollxmajtrollx Member Posts: 76
    edited May 2013
    No one like playing against a class where you have to treat them like a raid boss. It ruins PvP. Better spec for DPS, so instead of guarding all day, you can actually play your class.
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    etherealjetherealj Member Posts: 1,091 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    majtrollx wrote: »
    No one like playing against a class where you have to treat them like a raid boss. It ruins PvP. Better spec for DPS, so instead of guarding all day, you can actually play your class.

    There is no spec or class that can't be ~one shot unless it's standing on an astral shield or two.
    Use the <removed exploit lead-in> to interact with the auction vendor.
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    gruxgrux Member Posts: 26 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    They are probably just going to need a flat 60% damage reduction in PVP or something.
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    etherealjetherealj Member Posts: 1,091 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    grux wrote: »
    They are probably just going to need a flat 60% damage reduction in PVP or something.

    Some classes could just use a flat 60% increase in hp.
    Use the <removed exploit lead-in> to interact with the auction vendor.
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    kynttilakynttila Member Posts: 109 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    so... nerf shocking execution ? I'm a TR and i hate it, just because every single rogue uses it on 1v1 and takes all the skill away. Not like it affects that much the match but it is overall the lamest & lowest ability to use out there.
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    gomok72gomok72 Member Posts: 616 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    In this game, I have had a full 10k defense stacked Cleric and Guardian and I can tell you, speccing for damage in PvP for this game is the way to go. Defense don't mean jack **** in PvP because you have so many classes that can drop your defenses and armor by % instead of points or ignore it totally.

    I was against the resilence type stuff for this game but after leveling up a number of classes and having the same exact thing happen no matter how I specc them, "and I know I'm eating my words" they need to put some type of damage reduction buff on entering PvP areas or some type of % reduction stat on PvP gear.

    The best thing to do man and this is from playing both tank classes to 60 doing nothing but PvP, go full damage and focus on hit points. Power>crit> armor pen>defense in my opinion.
    I may not be considered by most the BEST PVP Warlock on the server but, I am the most HATED amongst them.

    -Kymos
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    rhoidrhoid Member Posts: 9 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Was accused of exploiting by "stacking buffs" last night because I hit someone for a lot.. no Idea what that was about but people need to stop crying.sheesh
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    saythinsaythin Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 130 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    I play a rogue very well in pvp! And I will give my honest thoughts on the balance of them.

    1. Their damage is easily avoidable, we are squishy and we can be controlled easily. IoC doesnt last long enough to make it any good.

    2. I will be one of the only rogues to say this. SHocking execution IS broken. Ignores ALL armor. I think they should tone down the armor pen and make it like 30% ignore or even 50% Or no armor pen at all would be fine. But I hope they keep it as an "Execute" and not dodgable D:

    Rogues are fine except for the daily, they do what their role calls for and if played well they do more!

    PvP Montage.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTuOxmxG_gA

    Pretty sure I got some 30k+ crits on here
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    etherealjetherealj Member Posts: 1,091 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    saythin wrote: »
    I play a rogue very well in pvp! And I will give my honest thoughts on the balance of them.

    1. Their damage is easily avoidable, we are squishy and we can be controlled easily. IoC doesnt last long enough to make it any good.

    2. I will be one of the only rogues to say this. SHocking execution IS broken. Ignores ALL armor. I think they should tone down the armor pen and make it like 30% ignore or even 50% Or no armor pen at all would be fine. But I hope they keep it as an "Execute" and not dodgable D:

    Rogues are fine except for the daily, they do what their role calls for and if played well they do more!

    PvP Montage.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTuOxmxG_gA

    Pretty sure I got some 30k+ crits on here

    Thrown dagger damage is a little high but basically I agree with you. Shocking Execution needs to be affected by defenses. Rogues are generally ok.
    Use the <removed exploit lead-in> to interact with the auction vendor.
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    wartimeraiderwartimeraider Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 132 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    The rogue dially spell actually even goes fully through CWs shield spell at me sometimes... Have to say thats kinda... Weird..
    timeraiderlogo2smaller.gif

    Elf Control Wizard - Dragon
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    dezerussdezeruss Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    wartimeraider wrote: »
    The rogue dially spell actually even goes fully through CWs shield spell at me sometimes... Have to say thats kinda... Weird..

    So, which part of "ignores all defenses" you don't understand?

    Honestly, CW is the most broken class in PvP. Once people realize that all rogues have is their daily and other than that they're punching bags CWs will get all the qq they should. Everyone cries about shocking execution critting for 20k when they're 15% hp and are oblivious to the fact ice knife can one shot you from full hp, CWs regenerate AP faster and it also stuns.

    BUT MOMMY THAT ROGUE KILLED ME FROM STEALTH WHEN I WAS LOW HP QQ
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    nvmbanelingsnvmbanelings Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    grux wrote: »
    They are probably just going to need a flat 60% damage reduction in PVP or something.

    prob the best choice, honestly. don't add a PVP-specific stat, just, put a flat damage reduction on anyone in PVP.

    maybe not that high, but, there needs to be SOME damage reduction in PvP; our stats are made for fighting people with hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of health, not a 20-30k health player.

    also: DR on SAME type CC, i.e. stun reduces stun, but stun doesn't reduce daze, etc.

    (p.s. remove righteousness)
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    lerdocixlerdocix Member Posts: 897 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    majtrollx wrote: »
    No one like playing against a class where you have to treat them like a raid boss. It ruins PvP. Better spec for DPS, so instead of guarding all day, you can actually play your class.

    You are SO far away from the point of the thread I'm wondering if you already left solar system.
    READ BEFORE POSTING.
    Its about 1-2 shotting people by rogues, regardless of class or spec of target.
    Moreover why would he spec for DPS if he wants to tank? Guarding points until help arrives is kind of helpful in DOMINATION pvp.
    I bet you're a rogue as well.
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    showatt0016showatt0016 Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    etherealj wrote: »
    Shocking Execution ignores defenses for absolutely no good reason. It will continue to 1 shot people unless it or hp/level scaling changes pretty much forever.

    Trust me, I used to think shocking exe is broken as hell, but after witnessing the powah of Double Stack Astral shield i now say it's working as intended.
    lerdocix wrote: »
    You are SO far away from the point of the thread I'm wondering if you already left solar system.
    READ BEFORE POSTING.
    Its about 1-2 shotting people by rogues, regardless of class or spec of target.
    Moreover why would he spec for DPS if he wants to tank? Guarding points until help arrives is kind of helpful in DOMINATION pvp.
    I bet you're a rogue as well.

    You DO realize shocking exe is only good when you have like 30% hp left right? You do realize the damge is scaled with the amount of hp, it's a daily which takes some times to charge and it doesn't guarantee a crit and can be blocked right?
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    rayuki666rayuki666 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 35
    edited May 2013
    ransham90 wrote: »
    I believe there is something wrong about armor penetration, i mean there is no way somebody could deal that much damage without a huge amount of armor penetration...

    it is pretty much armor pen. its a severly underrated stat right now, and the rogues that are stacking it are getting good advantage in pvp.

    dont worry, i crit a GWF for 38k today :)
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    joshuadaynejoshuadayne Member Posts: 16
    edited May 2013
    Armor Pen stack + plague fire procs + Stealth +15% damage + Shocking Execution (daily) + exec glass cannon build and you just said that you have 30k hp apparently our shocking execution deals more damage the more hp you have lost if all those are connected you deserve to die so stop whining.
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    esmad3esmad3 Member Posts: 6 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    dezeruss wrote: »
    So, which part of "ignores all defenses" you don't understand?

    Honestly, CW is the most broken class in PvP. Once people realize that all rogues have is their daily and other than that they're punching bags CWs will get all the qq they should. Everyone cries about shocking execution critting for 20k when they're 15% hp and are oblivious to the fact ice knife can one shot you from full hp, CWs regenerate AP faster and it also stuns.

    BUT MOMMY THAT ROGUE KILLED ME FROM STEALTH WHEN I WAS LOW HP QQ

    No, it can kill any class with any build and any gear from full hp. It's just stupid and requires no skill. Ice knife can be dodged and has a chance to do no dmg at all, it requires some form of disabling effect to work optimally.
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    jrelthewise2jrelthewise2 Member Posts: 25 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    esmad3 wrote: »
    it requires some form of disabling effect to work optimally.

    Hmm, requires a control spell to work optimally....
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    knoteskadknoteskad Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    nvmbanelings wrote: »
    prob the best choice, honestly. don't add a PVP-specific stat, just, put a flat damage reduction on anyone in PVP.

    maybe not that high, but, there needs to be SOME damage reduction in PvP; our stats are made for fighting people with hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of health, not a 20-30k health player.

    also: DR on SAME type CC, i.e. stun reduces stun, but stun doesn't reduce daze, etc.

    (p.s. remove righteousness)

    Lol watch them do that and still have SE ignore it.
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    aphasiaaphasia Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Hehe, how can someone who uses tiny daggers to fight ignore defense of chainmail, plate armor.
    Obviously one shotting or two shotting any class in pvp is nonsense. Should not happen at all.
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    therouterninjatherouterninja Member Posts: 114 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    30K hp GF here. I got hit for 45k the other day out of stealth. Ice knife can hit me for 25k easily, and CW can easily kite away. If they fix my block, i'm fine... but as it is, sometimes I just die from one hit. Most TR's i've spoken to that are worth half a **** in PVP agree it's broken, along with Ice knife. No skilled pvp'er wants to rely on one shot kills.
    Beholder MOPP4

    60 GF(14.5GS) Cersei
    60 CW(12.4GS) Shadis
    60 TR(12.2GS) Dijkstra
    60 GWF(12.2GS) Winnowill
    45 DC(WIP) Daenerys
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    selonwselonw Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 258
    edited May 2013
    So..nerf shocking execution, but do nothing against ice knife that is equally as powerfull, can be used more often, and doesnt require the enemy to have lower health... seems fair. Make TR have no chance to kill anything that moves, or fights back, make TR a free kill by removing the only skills they can get kills with unless the enemy is an idiot
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