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Rogue damage against full defense builds

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  • isleeislee Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    You're one of those losers that ran in 7 infiltrator 1 minstrel stealth zergs in the labyrinth, weren't you? The density it takes to not see how absolutely abusive rogues AND control wizards are in pvp is unfathomable.
  • therouterninjatherouterninja Member Posts: 114 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    selonw wrote: »
    So..nerf shocking execution, but do nothing against ice knife that is equally as powerfull, can be used more often, and doesnt require the enemy to have lower health... seems fair. Make TR have no chance to kill anything that moves, or fights back, make TR a free kill by removing the only skills they can get kills with unless the enemy is an idiot

    But TR gets a free kill by using the daily. Buff their abilities if anything, but no class should get an "I win" button.
    Beholder MOPP4

    60 GF(14.5GS) Cersei
    60 CW(12.4GS) Shadis
    60 TR(12.2GS) Dijkstra
    60 GWF(12.2GS) Winnowill
    45 DC(WIP) Daenerys
  • adfanujnadfanujn Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 33
    edited May 2013
    Shocking Execution should be nerfed, but the problem with that is the lack of anything else for damage but Lashing Blade and At-wills. We only have a few good pvp abilities as is; Smoke Bomb, Impossible to Catch and Deft Strike. We have a couple other abilities that are usable sometimes, Dazing Strike if you're stealthed, Shadow Strike if you're the always stealthed build and Impact Shots if you're trying to make some weird ranged rogue.

    Beyond our few massively terrifying abilities(luckily we do have three ridiculous encounters and a daily) rogues are pretty terribad in pvp.

    I do think that most classes have this problem though a few outlier abilities and the rest are, well, mediocre.
  • aphasiaaphasia Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    adfanujn wrote: »

    Beyond our few massively terrifying abilities(luckily we do have three ridiculous encounters and a daily) rogues are pretty terribad in pvp.

    Lol , how can rogues be terribad if they have a one shot ability and 3 skills that can remove half the hp. Oh well, i guess the game needs a serious retinkering with every class.
  • knoteskadknoteskad Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    selonw wrote: »
    So..nerf shocking execution, but do nothing against ice knife that is equally as powerfull, can be used more often, and doesnt require the enemy to have lower health... seems fair. Make TR have no chance to kill anything that moves, or fights back, make TR a free kill by removing the only skills they can get kills with unless the enemy is an idiot

    Well damage in general needs to be toned down.

    But having a move completely make mitigation useless when it's usefulness is already questionable is terrible. I'm seeing vids of SE being used on full hp people and doing a non-crit for 75% of their HP, that's not right. Although that's also a product of dmg being too high in general.

    TBH the only thing I want to nerf on Rogues is SE ignoring defense completely, if necessary make it do more dmg at lower hp, the bonus dmg of being an execution helps overcome defenses, it shouldn't get both, that's just stupid.
    adfanujn wrote: »
    Shocking Execution should be nerfed, but the problem with that is the lack of anything else for damage but Lashing Blade and At-wills. We only have a few good pvp abilities as is; Smoke Bomb, Impossible to Catch and Deft Strike. We have a couple other abilities that are usable sometimes, Dazing Strike if you're stealthed, Shadow Strike if you're the always stealthed build and Impact Shots if you're trying to make some weird ranged rogue.

    Beyond our few massively terrifying abilities(luckily we do have three ridiculous encounters and a daily) rogues are pretty terribad in pvp.

    I do think that most classes have this problem though a few outlier abilities and the rest are, well, mediocre.


    LOL I'm sorry, but how exactly is that a down side?

    If you can do more than enough dmg to kill anyone with just 1 encounter and at-wills you're golden, and even if SE was made completely useless you still have a broken 60% dmg modifier that also refills stealth.

    Making it so you're not so reliant on multiple encounters for dmg lets you have freedom in your encounter choices and let you slot utility.

    Other classes like GWF don't have that luxury, at wills for them in pvp are HAMSTER, and they have to have 3 specific Encounters to kill anyone.
  • fangbladzfangbladz Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Shocking Execution should just get a nerf where it can only be used when the person is at a specific amount of health, say 30% or 25%, and ignore half the defense of the person. This is coming from a Trickster Rogue.
  • monkjaynmonkjayn Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    heres a interesting thing, NOTHING will change for the sake of pvp in this game, and im glad of it (the devs have stated this, it is a pve game first afterall), and those stating they were 1 shot are talking BS unless they are severely undergeared, shocking execution deals more damage the less hps you have, and if you use it on someone with full hps, its rare theyll die from it, not to menton rogues build AP MUCH slower than any other class, especially in pvp.
    hell, im at 11.6k ish gear score, im at 3k crit, 5k ish power, 2200 armour pen, running either vorpal or greater plaguefire enchants, and i rarely 1 shot people (as in can count it on my hands the number of times ive done it), however, the ammount of times people have claimed ove 1 shot them is probably 75% of the kills i get with shokcing execution, whe in fact, they were often at half health already (as its largely a waste to pop it if they are at full health), not to mention the skills already kind of HAMSTER in pve compared to what lurkers assault can get us.

    laters

    Monk

    ps i find my guardian fighter alt more OP in pvp than my rogue, he doesnt die easily and can mess with everyone else nicely :P
  • tenkurotenkuro Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Nerf Shocking Execution, Go for it.

    But also nerf ice knife, ray of enfeeblement, astral shield, indomitable strength, crescendo.

    Oh, also, make it so GWF and GF have the same hp and defense as rogue. Also, make it so GWF and GF can't knock down or stun, but instead only silences like the rogue. You can give them stealth too. I have no problems destroying other rogues so if they were like other rogues, I'll destroy them too.

    Rock is crying that paper owns them, but haven't said a thing about them dominating scissors.
  • aphasiaaphasia Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    There's only 1 solution to this, stop PvP altogether. :P
  • tenkurotenkuro Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    aphasia wrote: »
    There's only 1 solution to this, stop PvP altogether. :P

    Won't matter. These people will still cry because they want their class to have it all. They want the most defense, the most hp, and the most damage. Even if they played rogues, they'll cry that rogues doesn't have hard crowd control skills like the other classes. They'll cry that rogues' stealth breaks too fast. They'll cry that rogues' AP generates too slow.
  • darksuportdarksuport Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Plate means little if you have 2000 armour pen + plague fire enchant all in all i have 65% armour penetration .and defence builds means little more then o he has less dps then normal dpsers:D


    1 executioner works on how much hp the target has lost. so if you are on 100% hp it dose no dmg if your on 10% hp it will hit you for 30k .
    if your getting hit hard by a rouge in plate he has armour pen stacked and plague enchant.
    and plate QQ that rouges hit hard wen they can kill a rouge in one stun knock down is funny .

    before all the trolls come ye i play both classes i know what's OP in both of em try 7 ten enchants on your gwf and see rouges melt
  • e11ze11z Member Posts: 144 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    monkjayn wrote: »
    heres a interesting thing, NOTHING will change for the sake of pvp in this game, and im glad of it (the devs have stated this, it is a pve game first afterall), and those stating they were 1 shot are talking BS unless they are severely undergeared, shocking execution deals more damage the less hps you have, and if you use it on someone with full hps, its rare theyll die from it, not to menton rogues build AP MUCH slower than any other class, especially in pvp.
    hell, im at 11.6k ish gear score, im at 3k crit, 5k ish power, 2200 armour pen, running either vorpal or greater plaguefire enchants, and i rarely 1 shot people (as in can count it on my hands the number of times ive done it), however, the ammount of times people have claimed ove 1 shot them is probably 75% of the kills i get with shokcing execution, whe in fact, they were often at half health already (as its largely a waste to pop it if they are at full health), not to mention the skills already kind of HAMSTER in pve compared to what lurkers assault can get us.

    laters

    Monk

    ps i find my guardian fighter alt more OP in pvp than my rogue, he doesnt die easily and can mess with everyone else nicely :P

    11.6k?!??!

    Jesus Christ did a pvp match yesterday and everyone was hitting like Absolute trucks whilst taking 0 damage. And i was just thinking I had gotten rusty from doing no pvp for a while.
    Yeah people don't pay much attention to hp in pvp usually cos the damage is STUPID compared to hp.
    In pve though Shocking execution is complete and utter ****e. I wish they would buff blood bath ._. I miss that skill alot.


    On a general note.
    This is just another game where again, gear becomes such a leading factor in pvp and it ends up ruining the fun people had whilst leveling.
    Not that it matters too much as I had my fun, pre: no-lifers/Paytowinners/60lolwtfgear.

    BG for me now is just a pve daily and anyone at end level thinking that it takes skill is either geared to the teeth or a Rogue/CW.

    GF were my most hated but since I finally caved in to Impossible to catch their cc's, they have got NOTHING ON ME BTCHES YOLO SWAG AND SOJDOSJKWN /o/
    The Best PVP Guild on Dragon/Neverwinter: YoloOldSkoolSwagLoveNeverGingersLuvDupStep even if it's just one of us, you might as well just afk.
  • dargathidargathi Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 12 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Don't ask me what the spells/abilities are but...

    I don't enjoy PVP games where I'm stunned/dazed/killed every time I re-spawn - should I ask for every stun to be removed?

    edit: I mean chain stunned/dazed etc - so it's spawn, run somewhere, die, spawn, run somewhere, die...
  • budrik1budrik1 Member Posts: 57 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    "Oh, yea we could have figured out how to make rogues balanced out through well timed CCes and debuffs that benefit both them and their companions, but we gave them oneshot nukes too. Because strategy is for wusses."

    I'm gonna add this to my sig.
    Fake quotes, f**k yea.
    "Pugs are like Saturday Night Live Sketches.
    Most of em' are awful, some of em are decent, and a few are pretty good."
  • wolfheartazwolfheartaz Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    darksuport wrote: »
    Plate means little if you have 2000 armour pen + plague fire enchant all in all i have 65% armour penetration .and defence builds means little more then o he has less dps then normal dpsers:D


    1 executioner works on how much hp the target has lost. so if you are on 100% hp it dose no dmg if your on 10% hp it will hit you for 30k .
    if your getting hit hard by a rouge in plate he has armour pen stacked and plague enchant.
    and plate QQ that rouges hit hard wen they can kill a rouge in one stun knock down is funny .

    before all the trolls come ye i play both classes i know what's OP in both of em try 7 ten enchants on your gwf and see rouges melt

    This.

    Learn how the skill works before you cry about it.

    You can not be one shot killed by shocking execution if you have full HP..

    Ice Knife on the other hand...lol
  • pinkfontpinkfont Member Posts: 563 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    ransham90 wrote: »
    Yes! This is a whining post agains insane rogue criticals!

    Let me explain what happened to me, i have a GWF with sentinel feats and full defense stat equip.

    I have something like 3k defense, 46% damage reduction and 35% more or less deflection... 30k HP and 9k gear score.

    This day started happily, i wanted to test my new defense build on my gwf and see the results... than BOOM.

    27k critical on me from nowhere, a sec later i'm dead.

    Who is going to pay my psychologist sessions now?! That was traumatic...

    I mean... full defense build in 2 hits... mother of god...

    What the first person said is right. That rogue could have easily had his daily filled up before the match even started (make sure you hit those dummies, fellas), and popped it right after a guaranteed crit from lashing blade. He would have then been pretty defenseless, but you were already dead so I guess that doesn't matter for you. It should be noted that if you use shocking execution on an enemy with a decent amount of health, you're going to get face-rolled.
    A rich rogue nowadays is fit company for any gentleman; and the world, my dear, hath not such a contempt for roguery as you imagine. - John HAMSTER
  • e11ze11z Member Posts: 144 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    budrik1 wrote: »
    "Oh, yea we could have figured out how to make rogues balanced out through well timed CCes and debuffs that benefit both them and their companions, but we gave them oneshot nukes too. Because strategy is for wusses."

    I'm gonna add this to my sig.
    Fake quotes, f**k yea.

    Here's a better one

    DC - "Hey." *urr hi?* "Oh yeah look at the ground" *ah im not falling for tha-uhh-ah-UHH OH NO!?!* "yeah thats right I just turned your Sword into a floppy paper HAMSTER" *I WON'T GIVE UP! Taaaaakke THIS - hgnnnmmmnerrggjhghgUFFhgnghUFFARghUfff* "oh btw meet my other friend. He's also a cleric." *.........godfrIGGINDAAMI-"

    CW- *sir the Riots getting out of control... shall we send in the Water cannons? - That won't be needed private. We have the control wizard. - Oh not that weird S&M fa-* "MUWAHAHAHAHA fear me mortals! I am the master of CONTROL!...FEEL MY Magically hands gripping your buttocks AND WATCH All dem Beetchs craw As i make them wet from me shooting a constant flow of "ice"(****) - Actually I know we said control but I actually meant 15-20k crits with a daily that charges faster then the cash shop. And It's made of ice so if you don't die from the initial impact of a 500kg+ block of ice you'll probably die from the hypothermia.......anyways #AVADACABRARFRFEERREEZARSPLATSPLATSPLATSPLAT#"

    GF - "hu-harr I am the righteous and most noble of noblest Feel the courage of my sword! #poke#"*you instantly reach speeds of mach 10* "Be Smited thou most unholyiest of Fah-urrr i mean Pheasants!!.Oh you are back? Get back down" *smash 10k* "oh and dont try to run..i'll catch you."*HOW CAN I RUN IM ON THE EFFING FLOOR* "PIPE down you lowly maggot! HuH-HAR Imsonoble "

    GWF- "#grunt pant hurgg rgugghh grhhh rughh ugghh RGGGHH AARRAHAWOWAHAHRRERGHGH# *oh shi- we startled the gwf* WHHHHHHERE'S MY WIFEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE *OH GOD RUN* #SMASH# *EEEKKARGHH* "

    Rogue -#swooish# #deep heavy breathing heard close to you# ...*what is that noise O.o..hey guys did you hear tha-*#zmmmwaahhSWISHSHLUCKDDBTHUD-WAPEESSSSHHSPRUKAH!# - *silence as head slowly slides off body whilst everything fades* #whispery close-to-your-ear-voice# "shhhhh....its ok...you put up a good fight..."
    The Best PVP Guild on Dragon/Neverwinter: YoloOldSkoolSwagLoveNeverGingersLuvDupStep even if it's just one of us, you might as well just afk.
  • knoteskadknoteskad Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    darksuport wrote: »
    Plate means little if you have 2000 armour pen + plague fire enchant all in all i have 65% armour penetration .and defence builds means little more then o he has less dps then normal dpsers:D


    1 executioner works on how much hp the target has lost. so if you are on 100% hp it dose no dmg if your on 10% hp it will hit you for 30k .
    if your getting hit hard by a rouge in plate he has armour pen stacked and plague enchant.
    and plate QQ that rouges hit hard wen they can kill a rouge in one stun knock down is funny .

    before all the trolls come ye i play both classes i know what's OP in both of em try 7 ten enchants on your gwf and see rouges melt

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3HUih8bnGo&t=1m25s

    15k NON-crit SE at full health, drops him by 75%.

    You were saying?
  • itdude123itdude123 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Heck my TR got 2 shotted by a GWF who looked to have no armor on. First hit was a charge of some kind from a good ways off, dropped me to about 40%, then next hit finished me off.
  • senseijohnsenseijohn Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 90
    edited May 2013
    I agree! You should be nerfed! Rogues can't get their defense that high... so you are OP! NERF!

    Seriously... people need to get a grip and realize... the classes are balanced... but not equal.

    Rogue - master at one on one attacks from stealth - no stealth = dead, no daily up = dead, multiple opponents = dead

    Fighter - masters at defense and soaking up damage

    Mages - masters of long range and AoE damage

    Clerics - masters at healing

    Mages can't heal... does that mean clerics are OP? Fighters can't cast spells and massive AoE's... does that mean mages are OP? Rogues can't wear plate armor and don't have tons of hit points... so are Fighter's OP?

    The fact is... the classes all fit neatly into cookie cutter roles. If you're going to go one on one with a rogue and wonder why you lost... then you're dumb. If a rogue heads towards a mage with no stealth and then gets choked, frozen stunned and dead and wonder why he lost... then he's dumb.

    Know you're abilities and maximize them.... know your opponent's weaknesses and exploit them.
  • yeruneyerune Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    knoteskad wrote: »
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3HUih8bnGo&t=1m25s

    15k NON-crit SE at full health, drops him by 75%.

    You were saying?

    3m.21s

    same movie, same power, the only thing different is the other character and what (s)he's wearing, and that tends to make a big difference.
  • imobiusimobius Member Posts: 111 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    senseijohn wrote: »
    I agree! You should be nerfed! Rogues can't get their defense that high... so you are OP! NERF!

    Seriously... people need to get a grip and realize... the classes are balanced... but not equal.

    Rogue - master at one on one attacks from stealth - no stealth = dead, no daily up = dead, multiple opponents = dead

    Fighter - masters at defense and soaking up damage

    Mages - masters of long range and AoE damage

    Clerics - masters at healing

    Mages can't heal... does that mean clerics are OP? Fighters can't cast spells and massive AoE's... does that mean mages are OP? Rogues can't wear plate armor and don't have tons of hit points... so are Fighter's OP?

    The fact is... the classes all fit neatly into cookie cutter roles. If you're going to go one on one with a rogue and wonder why you lost... then you're dumb. If a rogue heads towards a mage with no stealth and then gets choked, frozen stunned and dead and wonder why he lost... then he's dumb.

    Know you're abilities and maximize them.... know your opponent's weaknesses and exploit them.

    If you're trying to be smart, you're failing.
    You've pretty much just proven your ignorance and/or how na
  • budrik1budrik1 Member Posts: 57 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    senseijohn wrote: »
    Rogue - master at one on one attacks from stealth - no stealth = dead, no daily up = dead, multiple opponents = dead

    FYI Pretty much any class in this game relies heavily on its dailies.
    Its just Rogue Dailies (or that Shocking ****) that are ridiculously overpowered.
    Do I even need to prove it? Have you not seen the amount of TRs lately?
    "Pugs are like Saturday Night Live Sketches.
    Most of em' are awful, some of em are decent, and a few are pretty good."
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