I've played dozens of MMOs and I can't recall a time where it was necessary for me to re-spec, let alone multiple times - maybe you should think about the class you're playing and what role you want to fill, plan better and then you won't have this problem.
What do you do in game/MMO that doesn't allow for respec at all? Maybe Cryptic intended for player choice during character progression to have impact and decided that in NW a respec is a luxury item. I don't know, but I do know that kicking up such a fuss over having to pay a small amount of money for something in a free game that isn't essential is nonsense.
I would say then you area very good player, honestly.
I mean people with PHD's create simulators to crunch numbers with builds for more than just one game, Go look at NOXXIC.COM, go look at elitist jerks ... these people do this to find out what is actually the best, and it's not always what you think. Sometimes one build comes out better than another if you "stack" certain stats along with the build itself. And then, the game changes in some ways at times and those numbers change, and the best dps build changes.
Saying one does not need to experiment with a new character/game build is absolutely CRAZY.
People who try to trivialize respecs and insist they have a vast MMO experience are absolutely lying, or clueless.
I would say then you area very good player, honestly.
I mean people with PHD's create simulators to crunch numbers with builds for more than just one game, Go look at NOXXIC.COM, go look at elitist jerks ... these people do this to find out what is actually the best, and it's not always what you think. Sometimes one build comes out better than another if you "stack" certain stats along with the build itself. And then, the game changes in some ways at times and those numbers change, and the best dps build changes.
Saying one does not need to experiment with a new character/game build is absolutely CRAZY.
People who try to trivialize respecs and insist they have a vast MMO experience are absolutely lying, or clueless.
So I'm clueless or lying eh? Why you gotta be all like that, lol.
First off it's called having a different opinion, of which there are many in this thread - not about lying or being clueless, there's no need for insults.
Secondly, let me clarify: If they release a patch that causes dramatic changes to class skills, balance, builds etc and/or release new Paragon Paths - stuff like that, I think it would only be fair to also allow players to respec afterwards.
But that's not really what we're talking about, or is it?
In any case, as it stands - having to pay $6 for a respec is reasonable considering they need to generate income somehow and doing so through non-essential items like respecs, appearance change, bag-space etc is not a bad way to go about it.
They already make a lot of money from packs and they scam us i didn't receive any packs its more than 1 month now and no one replay to my email this is suck
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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bzzzdMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I cannot experiment they way i'd like to with a new game/character as I have been able to do so- within a days time or for no money at all in 5 other games, all of which are still alive in some form or another. The fact that people can so blindly banner themselves that "all's well with the respeccing is ludicrous."
see, that's a completely valid reason. OTOH, there are also people that prefer that you have stick to a build and can't change it just willy-nilly (I personally prefer rifts or even TSW's class system, but that's another topic).
another valid reason would be that skills and their usefulness change quite a bit on your character's way to 60, so a respec at 60 would be fair (iirc that's what they did after STO went f2p, in the beginning f2p players had to pay for a respec as well, the they got free ones while leveling - but I might remember it wrong and I'm too lazy to yahoo it atm). but not because some work completely different than their description or don't work at all) - which would also be alleviated with a free respec at 60.
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bzzzdMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
H Either a fanboy or a misinformed/uneducated/inexeprienced player... pick one how can you not see that respeccing in this game will likely be common place?
common place? where? why? because your full tank for dungeon running only works so far when you want to do leet deeps in pvp? well you can't have both. however you get 2 free char slots.
as for "misinformed/uneducated/inexeprienced" - you really want to put an argument like "ppl who can't be bothered to do some reading about their builds need cheaper respecs to follow the latest FOTM" on the table?
So I'm clueless or lying eh? Why you gotta be all like that, lol.
First off it's called having a different opinion, of which there are many in this thread - not about lying or being clueless, there's no need for insults.
Secondly, let me clarify: If they release a patch that causes dramatic changes to class skills, balance, builds etc and/or release new Paragon Paths - stuff like that, I think it would only be fair to also allow players to respec afterwards.
But that's not really what we're talking about, or is it?
In any case, as it stands - having to pay $6 for a respec is reasonable considering they need to generate income somehow and doing so through non-essential items like respecs, appearance change, bag-space etc is not a bad way to go about it.
Non-essential? Then what is the point of having any talents or specs in the first place? I switch specs for pvp and pve in WoW all the time.
It is essential. That's the whole point of discussion and why some people take issue with monetizing respecs. Not that they need income in general. Do it with something else.
In any case, as it stands - having to pay $6 for a respec is reasonable considering they need to generate income somehow and doing so through non-essential items like respecs, appearance change, bag-space etc is not a bad way to go about it.
Feats can be respec'd using just Astral Diamonds, so I'm not concerned about them.
I couldn't care less about respeccing stats.
It's the powers I'm concerned about, & I don't think we're just talking about whether or not PWE ever changes them. Even after reading the TR forum, I made some mistakes on my build that I'd like to remedy. Charging me $6 when all I want to do is respec my powers seems a bit out-of-line, especially when I've never seen any other MMO that did anything like that.
I think this is especially true when they're charging $40 for purple mounts & $10 for bags, so I don't really think the "they have to make money somehow" argument is really worth making.
Fare you well
Let your life proceed by its own designs
Nothing to tell
Let the words be yours, I'm done with mine ...
Respecs are far, far too expensive. Many mmo players respec numerous times for various reasons. If you are one of the people that never respecs, or respecs only once or twice, you should not even post on such threads because you do not understand why people are constantly asking for cheaper respecs.
If I was to respec in this game as much as I have done in GW2 I would have to pay over $1,000. That is an insane amount of money for a basic in game function. Some people say "but its just the price of 1 epic drop". Well, 1) epics don't fall off trees (obviously) and 2) I would rather spend that money on some nice cosmetic items for my toon!
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bzzzdMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
It's the powers I'm concerned about, & I don't think we're just talking about whether or not PWE ever changes them. Even after reading the TR forum, I made some mistakes on my build that I'd like to remedy. Charging me $6 when all I want to do is respec my powers seems a bit out-of-line, especially when I've never seen any other MMO that did anything like that.
I think this is especially true when they're charging $40 for purple mounts & $10 for bags, so I don't really think the "they have to make money somehow" argument is really worth making.
one of the problems with the whole "OMG RESPECS 6 BUX" is these are actually two separate issues.
how many people have a problem with the price, and how many have a problem with respecs being a cash-shop item (not really, but it's perceived as one)?
what if a respecs would cost 100g at 60? or fixed 300k AD (the maximum price it can ever cost when 1 zen is 500 AD)?
is the price intended design so people don't respec often or just a pressure point to goat people to buy zen?
ehrm, if "something" is not working, where are you forced to pay for it? we're talking about the respecs here. "duh". nice generalization tho.
so either suck it up and wait till the MINOR issue is fixed, use a workaround or farm/pay for a respec if you can't endure to play your completely broken character (because it must be broken, right? since it's so BAD you can't play anymore and HAVE to respec). everything else is up to the person who decided which point goes where.
cryptic has reworked whole systems in the past and gave out quite a few respecs along with it. pw might be greedy and cryptic a bit stupid considering what goes live, but they're not THAT stupid.
and before you call me a fanboy, there is plenty that pisses me off in the game, to a level I'd punch the person responsible in the d1ck - the respecs are minor in comparison.
I honestly don't think $6 is enough of a disincentive for respeccing, so I'm suspicious it's more the "goad people to buy zen" thing.
Personally, I really dislike the entire Astral Diamonds concept. I think this game has too many currencies.
would it make a difference if a full respec always costs 300k AD? that's the most expensive it can get.
problem with most f2p games is you never now where the design ends and the pay4convenience thumbscrew starts, and on the other end you have a wide range of opinions what amount of money/time is acceptable since everyone values money/time differently.
lets say you have an item that requires 10 hours played. now a company offers a shortcut, you can "buy" hours to save time if you want it faster or just don't like to gain it by playing - how much should these hours cost?
that's quite a difference to the sub-mmos where everyone has the illusion he's equal (everyone pays the same, so everyone should be allowed access to the same - too bad some things require more time than others, not everyone has the same amount of time. and skill is a completely different topic).
still doesn't change the fact that your "WE PAY FOR THEIR MISTAKES" argument is complete bull****. since you obviously can't or don't want to add anything meaningful to this discussion, why don't you just keep reading from now on before you look even more like a fool?
Just because you CAN buy a respec for $10 doesn't mean you HAVE too. You can grind up the AD and get a the respec as well.
Just because you CAN get ZEN with cash and AD with ZEN does NOT mean that AD = Cash. You need to stop thinking that they are taking your cash out of your wallet because they are letting you buy things with AD.
You can EITHER buy respecs with the zen you get from cash OR you can buy it with the ZEN you get from exchanging AD.
AD!=Cash so stop pretending that the AD you earn in game is irrelevant or automatically treated as cash. NO ONE can pull money from your wallet unless YOU want to spend it.
I think that there's a lot of flawed or circumstantial solutions being thrown about on these issues.
On one hand if you rushed to 60 and had a nice headstart, then naturally those BOE epic items will sell for a nice tidy sum, that is IF you're the kind with the time to farm them and play the auction house, but those reward to time ratio's are going to change a lot in no time, and AD is going to become more and more abundant and less and less desired, and I can't see it being incredibly high in value for long.
This means right now, the issue is that you can either keep trying to earn as much ad from other players as possible at a constantly diminishing rate to bypass some of the cash shop stuff (Respecs, Wards) and it's entirely possible on some level if you're getting in very early, but at the same time due to the costs of these things, you'll be sacrificing one aspect of your progression, for another.
Of course in the end, no one is holding a gun to your head and making you respec, or whatnot. but then again, that entire argument is asinine and irrelevant anyways.
Yes $6 might seem expensive for a respec, but I prefer to see it as part of the big picture.
Overall, with monthly or even fortnightly respecs, I'm still spending LESS cash than what I would otherwise spend with a traditional $15 sub MMO.
Unless you're expecting to play for virtually no cost, the best thing is that there's always CHOICE. You can always choose not to spend anything.
Perhaps you need to extend the scope of your "big picture"? I can play an amazing mmo for $60 and everything-including respecs is included. Wow/ other such sub-mmos are overpriced and so I don't play them anymore.
I am not expecting to play for "virtually no cost". I have already put the same amount of money into this game as I have into GW2. All those mounts and cosmetic items in the cash shop are fine imo. The respecs are just astronomically overpriced and I would appreciate if the firm looked into lowering the price of respecs significantly. I am quite happy spending my money on cosmetics, mounts, xp boosters and such, but charging so much for respecs is crazy (imo).
My personal feedback is that the current system that is used for respecing is one of the main reasons I was turned off by the game. At this time and age it is absolutely pathetic as a business practise, but since they can find people to support them then nobody can really blame them.
I mean this game is officially in Beta so people are supposed to try things out and the devs are expected that they will be changing things a lot, plus there will be bugs that won't be fixed until their number comes of the devs schedule. Even past the Beat stage, as a game that is both an MMO and an RPG, people will be trying different things out and the devs will be changing things a lot. Furthermore, no one spec can be good enough for PvE (solo and group) and PvP (solo and group) at the same time, in fact builds that can be amazing for one are terrible for the other and vice versa. So limiting this major aspect of gameplay with such a ridiculous system is unacceptable imo.
common place? where? why? because your full tank for dungeon running only works so far when you want to do leet deeps in pvp? well you can't have both. however you get 2 free char slots.
as for "misinformed/uneducated/inexeprienced" - you really want to put an argument like "ppl who can't be bothered to do some reading about their builds need cheaper respecs to follow the latest FOTM" on the table?
Pre planning a level 60 build during questing is ... I suppose possibly for this game only normal, take a variety of other MMO games
I will use WoW for example and a simple class choice as an example, while leveling a Death Knight, playing "Blood" spec, atleast a hybrid of that spec makes survival considerably better, at the end level the first thing I would want to do is tweak my spec to drop the survival pieces for maxxing out DPS, sure in this game you can gain a companion but not from the very start. Suggesting that you plan for your ideal level 60 build and that you have TWO character slots from get go as to being "ideal" is far from accurate. I am not personally a WoW fanboy, the game has become a little stale and has long been making content to appease the masses (more or less).
I realize the idea of F2P is based on microcharges but to nail players on a spec change is a poor place to target, that is telling it's client base: Hey you want to do a common task we are going to bleed ya!
A lot of good F2P models never even "need" to put a charge in a common use area instead they make a really awesome looking armor set, a really cool mount or some item that players just really WANT!!
What if I want to swap between tanking and dpsing on 1 character and have a healer as another, or a ranged dps?
No, my past time is playing games and I don't mind paying for them. Also I have a strong antipathy vs trolls and idiots.
Sorry but you should keep your antipathy for yourself. Otherwise I'll assume that your parents didn't give you a proper manners education while a child.
I'm really tired about people calling each other trolls and being rude just because someone else have a different opinion.
Comments
I mean people with PHD's create simulators to crunch numbers with builds for more than just one game, Go look at NOXXIC.COM, go look at elitist jerks ... these people do this to find out what is actually the best, and it's not always what you think. Sometimes one build comes out better than another if you "stack" certain stats along with the build itself. And then, the game changes in some ways at times and those numbers change, and the best dps build changes.
Saying one does not need to experiment with a new character/game build is absolutely CRAZY.
People who try to trivialize respecs and insist they have a vast MMO experience are absolutely lying, or clueless.
So I'm clueless or lying eh? Why you gotta be all like that, lol.
First off it's called having a different opinion, of which there are many in this thread - not about lying or being clueless, there's no need for insults.
Secondly, let me clarify: If they release a patch that causes dramatic changes to class skills, balance, builds etc and/or release new Paragon Paths - stuff like that, I think it would only be fair to also allow players to respec afterwards.
But that's not really what we're talking about, or is it?
In any case, as it stands - having to pay $6 for a respec is reasonable considering they need to generate income somehow and doing so through non-essential items like respecs, appearance change, bag-space etc is not a bad way to go about it.
see, that's a completely valid reason. OTOH, there are also people that prefer that you have stick to a build and can't change it just willy-nilly (I personally prefer rifts or even TSW's class system, but that's another topic).
another valid reason would be that skills and their usefulness change quite a bit on your character's way to 60, so a respec at 60 would be fair (iirc that's what they did after STO went f2p, in the beginning f2p players had to pay for a respec as well, the they got free ones while leveling - but I might remember it wrong and I'm too lazy to yahoo it atm). but not because some work completely different than their description or don't work at all) - which would also be alleviated with a free respec at 60.
common place? where? why? because your full tank for dungeon running only works so far when you want to do leet deeps in pvp? well you can't have both. however you get 2 free char slots.
as for "misinformed/uneducated/inexeprienced" - you really want to put an argument like "ppl who can't be bothered to do some reading about their builds need cheaper respecs to follow the latest FOTM" on the table?
Non-essential? Then what is the point of having any talents or specs in the first place? I switch specs for pvp and pve in WoW all the time.
It is essential. That's the whole point of discussion and why some people take issue with monetizing respecs. Not that they need income in general. Do it with something else.
Feats can be respec'd using just Astral Diamonds, so I'm not concerned about them.
I couldn't care less about respeccing stats.
It's the powers I'm concerned about, & I don't think we're just talking about whether or not PWE ever changes them. Even after reading the TR forum, I made some mistakes on my build that I'd like to remedy. Charging me $6 when all I want to do is respec my powers seems a bit out-of-line, especially when I've never seen any other MMO that did anything like that.
I think this is especially true when they're charging $40 for purple mounts & $10 for bags, so I don't really think the "they have to make money somehow" argument is really worth making.
Let your life proceed by its own designs
Nothing to tell
Let the words be yours, I'm done with mine ...
If I was to respec in this game as much as I have done in GW2 I would have to pay over $1,000. That is an insane amount of money for a basic in game function. Some people say "but its just the price of 1 epic drop". Well, 1) epics don't fall off trees (obviously) and 2) I would rather spend that money on some nice cosmetic items for my toon!
one of the problems with the whole "OMG RESPECS 6 BUX" is these are actually two separate issues.
how many people have a problem with the price, and how many have a problem with respecs being a cash-shop item (not really, but it's perceived as one)?
what if a respecs would cost 100g at 60? or fixed 300k AD (the maximum price it can ever cost when 1 zen is 500 AD)?
is the price intended design so people don't respec often or just a pressure point to goat people to buy zen?
I stand corrected.
You're THAT dense.
That's my issue.
I honestly don't think $6 is enough of a disincentive for respeccing, so I'm suspicious it's more the "goad people to buy zen" thing.
Personally, I really dislike the entire Astral Diamonds concept. I think this game has too many currencies.
Let your life proceed by its own designs
Nothing to tell
Let the words be yours, I'm done with mine ...
wait what?! O_o
on another note, for those not sure what to expect from NWO and it's cashgrab read this: http://www.reddit.com/r/Neverwinter/comments/1dry0g/neverwinters_f2p_model_what_you_need_to_know/
would it make a difference if a full respec always costs 300k AD? that's the most expensive it can get.
problem with most f2p games is you never now where the design ends and the pay4convenience thumbscrew starts, and on the other end you have a wide range of opinions what amount of money/time is acceptable since everyone values money/time differently.
lets say you have an item that requires 10 hours played. now a company offers a shortcut, you can "buy" hours to save time if you want it faster or just don't like to gain it by playing - how much should these hours cost?
that's quite a difference to the sub-mmos where everyone has the illusion he's equal (everyone pays the same, so everyone should be allowed access to the same - too bad some things require more time than others, not everyone has the same amount of time. and skill is a completely different topic).
still doesn't change the fact that your "WE PAY FOR THEIR MISTAKES" argument is complete bull****. since you obviously can't or don't want to add anything meaningful to this discussion, why don't you just keep reading from now on before you look even more like a fool?
Go look in the CW forums. Almost half of their abilities or feats don't work the way they should.
said the guy who bought the $200 founders pack
On one hand if you rushed to 60 and had a nice headstart, then naturally those BOE epic items will sell for a nice tidy sum, that is IF you're the kind with the time to farm them and play the auction house, but those reward to time ratio's are going to change a lot in no time, and AD is going to become more and more abundant and less and less desired, and I can't see it being incredibly high in value for long.
This means right now, the issue is that you can either keep trying to earn as much ad from other players as possible at a constantly diminishing rate to bypass some of the cash shop stuff (Respecs, Wards) and it's entirely possible on some level if you're getting in very early, but at the same time due to the costs of these things, you'll be sacrificing one aspect of your progression, for another.
Of course in the end, no one is holding a gun to your head and making you respec, or whatnot. but then again, that entire argument is asinine and irrelevant anyways.
Overall, with monthly or even fortnightly respecs, I'm still spending LESS cash than what I would otherwise spend with a traditional $15 sub MMO.
Unless you're expecting to play for virtually no cost, the best thing is that there's always CHOICE. You can always choose not to spend anything.
Perhaps you need to extend the scope of your "big picture"? I can play an amazing mmo for $60 and everything-including respecs is included. Wow/ other such sub-mmos are overpriced and so I don't play them anymore.
I am not expecting to play for "virtually no cost". I have already put the same amount of money into this game as I have into GW2. All those mounts and cosmetic items in the cash shop are fine imo. The respecs are just astronomically overpriced and I would appreciate if the firm looked into lowering the price of respecs significantly. I am quite happy spending my money on cosmetics, mounts, xp boosters and such, but charging so much for respecs is crazy (imo).
Pre planning a level 60 build during questing is ... I suppose possibly for this game only normal, take a variety of other MMO games
I will use WoW for example and a simple class choice as an example, while leveling a Death Knight, playing "Blood" spec, atleast a hybrid of that spec makes survival considerably better, at the end level the first thing I would want to do is tweak my spec to drop the survival pieces for maxxing out DPS, sure in this game you can gain a companion but not from the very start. Suggesting that you plan for your ideal level 60 build and that you have TWO character slots from get go as to being "ideal" is far from accurate. I am not personally a WoW fanboy, the game has become a little stale and has long been making content to appease the masses (more or less).
I realize the idea of F2P is based on microcharges but to nail players on a spec change is a poor place to target, that is telling it's client base: Hey you want to do a common task we are going to bleed ya!
A lot of good F2P models never even "need" to put a charge in a common use area instead they make a really awesome looking armor set, a really cool mount or some item that players just really WANT!!
What if I want to swap between tanking and dpsing on 1 character and have a healer as another, or a ranged dps?
Curious if you have looked at other MMO's?
Take a look at WoW...Everquest, GW2 even
Sorry but you should keep your antipathy for yourself. Otherwise I'll assume that your parents didn't give you a proper manners education while a child.
I'm really tired about people calling each other trolls and being rude just because someone else have a different opinion.