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PVP obervations from a level60
myaki
Member Posts: 38
Hello, I have been PVPing for a while now since dinging level 60(I am a control wizard). There are some problems with PVP that I have so far, and I would like to share them with you, and Cryptic, to see everyone's opinions.
-Dailies do too much damage in PVP, especially rogues and control wizards. Please reduce their damage greatly inside of battlegrounds only or adjust them in some other way. When I pop my daily, I kill someone 100% to 0% in 2-3 seconds while they're CCed the entire duration. The same happens when another class pops their daily on me. I think it would be a more enjoyable experience if players weren't winning fights and killing each other so easily just because their action point bar is filled up.
- Rogues and Control Wizards both do far too much damage. I think overall damage should be reduced somewhere around 50-75% inside of battlegrounds only. I feel that longer prolonged fights and less twitchy combat that ends in 2-3 attacks would be more enjoyable for everyone playing.
- There is too much CC, and no DR's. Please add DR's to CC's when used on other players. Full - > half -> immune for 15 seconds would be a good change. Most people don't like not being able to control their character for extended periods of time, we want to play and kill other players afterall!
- Smoke bomb is too powerful for having an 18 second cooldown. Please increase the cooldown in battlegrounds only, I'm thinking somewhere between 1-2 mins for how powerful the ability is.
- Force chokes cooldown is too low for how strong it is. Please increase it's cooldown inside battlegrounds only. 30-40 second cooldown inside of battlegrounds would probably be a very good change, as well as making it not benefit from arcane mastery stacks but increasing it's base duration in PVP.
- Ability to kick AFKers. This is a no brainer, I'm sure one is already in the works.
- Clerics damage reduction shields and healing is a lot. If damage is reduced(and I strongly think damage needs to be reduced) then clerics heals and damage reduction shields would need to be nerfed in battlegrounds only as well. Maybe a ~50% nerf? I'm not sure, stacking of multiple cleric shields also should probably go away in both PVE and PVP.
- Latency, sometimes I will be ~30 yards away from a GFW and his attacks will still land on me. Very annoying to deal with melee abilities that hit you from very far away.
- Res timers are too short, too easy to "res zerg" take back nodes or defend, or reinforce. I believe a 20-30 sec res timer should be added.
These are my observations so far, and my suggested solutions to things I see making PVP less fun than it could be. This game has really fun classes and combat, and I just want to enjoy some PVP action duking it out against other players in an enjoyable environment. My biggest problem that makes the game less fun for me right now is the CC, dailies damage, and rogue/CW(and overall damage in general really) damage though.
-Dailies do too much damage in PVP, especially rogues and control wizards. Please reduce their damage greatly inside of battlegrounds only or adjust them in some other way. When I pop my daily, I kill someone 100% to 0% in 2-3 seconds while they're CCed the entire duration. The same happens when another class pops their daily on me. I think it would be a more enjoyable experience if players weren't winning fights and killing each other so easily just because their action point bar is filled up.
- Rogues and Control Wizards both do far too much damage. I think overall damage should be reduced somewhere around 50-75% inside of battlegrounds only. I feel that longer prolonged fights and less twitchy combat that ends in 2-3 attacks would be more enjoyable for everyone playing.
- There is too much CC, and no DR's. Please add DR's to CC's when used on other players. Full - > half -> immune for 15 seconds would be a good change. Most people don't like not being able to control their character for extended periods of time, we want to play and kill other players afterall!
- Smoke bomb is too powerful for having an 18 second cooldown. Please increase the cooldown in battlegrounds only, I'm thinking somewhere between 1-2 mins for how powerful the ability is.
- Force chokes cooldown is too low for how strong it is. Please increase it's cooldown inside battlegrounds only. 30-40 second cooldown inside of battlegrounds would probably be a very good change, as well as making it not benefit from arcane mastery stacks but increasing it's base duration in PVP.
- Ability to kick AFKers. This is a no brainer, I'm sure one is already in the works.
- Clerics damage reduction shields and healing is a lot. If damage is reduced(and I strongly think damage needs to be reduced) then clerics heals and damage reduction shields would need to be nerfed in battlegrounds only as well. Maybe a ~50% nerf? I'm not sure, stacking of multiple cleric shields also should probably go away in both PVE and PVP.
- Latency, sometimes I will be ~30 yards away from a GFW and his attacks will still land on me. Very annoying to deal with melee abilities that hit you from very far away.
- Res timers are too short, too easy to "res zerg" take back nodes or defend, or reinforce. I believe a 20-30 sec res timer should be added.
These are my observations so far, and my suggested solutions to things I see making PVP less fun than it could be. This game has really fun classes and combat, and I just want to enjoy some PVP action duking it out against other players in an enjoyable environment. My biggest problem that makes the game less fun for me right now is the CC, dailies damage, and rogue/CW(and overall damage in general really) damage though.
Post edited by myaki on
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Comments
This is not helpful, please keep the thread full of constructive criticism and feedback regarding PVP at level60.
Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh... I think I see your problem. I also can't get behind DR on cc in pvp. Why? I've played another cryptic title that went that route. Champions Online. Now, the only controls we see are knocks, because everything else has been nerfed into the ground. When you say cc, do you mean slow, from frost stacks? full freeze? force choke? What if a wizard has (like many of us do) exclusively cc applying powers? popping 2 encounters would nerf anything else we do on that person entirely. Think people are crying "rogue is op!" now? Take away a CW's ability to lock em down. You're a CW, you know what I'm talking about.
What all this would really do, imo, is remove the tactics of pvp. A game with this specific class spread should never have an equal playing field. What I'd like to see, instead, is the GF and GWF (less on the second one) get a bit more resistance to big damage spikes, so they can fill their role in pvp a little easier. Nuking down a GF *should* be a pain in the butt. It's not, right now. I feel like that simple of a buff might equalize the lockdowns of a CW or the battlefield control a rogue seems to enjoy too much of at the moment. The rock to rogue's scissors, as it were.
I'm with you on the afk kick (as long as the party gets a new add from the queue), and cooldown on rez, tho. That would add depth.
RIP Caine
No CW/TR has ever killed me in 2-3 shots but I have killed them in 2 and I'm a GF playing from Australia with constant 300ms. You are dying in 2 shots because you spec all power and want to do so to the other people too. There are DR specs on a CW and TR which avoids and reduces damage. If you're not using them when they're provided, don't ***** about it. Other than afkers I don't see a problem in pvp. Baddies are just bad.
You are a tank with block, and this attitude is not very healthy for discussion. A CW has no tanking traits or abilities, I have a shield that barely helps and that's it, and I'm wearing full PVP gear. My class does not have a single feat or paragon that reduces damage I take - and I picked up the +9% stam in feats. The only thing I have is +move speed after blink and restoring 10% stam when I get hit + repeling 5 yards. These do not reduce damage I take, especially from ranged or attacks.
I most agree with the part about there being too much CC. This is a big reason why I wont be playing anymore. I could list all the other reasons, a lot of which the OP has mentioned, but there is so much wrong with this game so it would be kind of pointless. There is more wrong with the PvP balance in this game than I have ever seen in any MMO. Most of the complaints on the forums that get shut down are valid complaints. They aren't being listened to, and the voice of the fan boys is too loud as usual.. I wonder sometimes do fan boys know how destructive their "positive attitudes" are on the development of the game? Claiming that things are working when they are clearly not working has never helped any MMO succeed. I really wanted to like this game, but after playing PvP this weekend I wont be coming back. Spare the typical 'dont let the door hit you on the way out' its still beta comments. This game is a lot worse off than a lot of other MMOs Ive seen since EQ and worst of all Cryptic/PWE is about getting your money. I wont even be coming back to the thread. Just log back in and enjoy the game while its still alive. Hopefully the devs will listen to posters like the OP and not the fan boys who claim the game design works.
all you're complaining about is the shield stacking damage reduction. i can almost guarantee that it'll be nerfed in both PVE/PVP. but, are you talking about the shield being ridiculous on the cleric themselves or on allies? if its on the cleric, they have a 40% reduction to self-heals. plus, ALL a cleric has (if specced defensively) is healing. the nerf you suggested would absolutely destroy clerics. AS is their bread and butter. all they need to do is get rid of the damage reduction on the shield stacking.
and ofc, everyone wants to be able to kick afkers.
I have also made a thread talking about level scaling not working at all in PVP, and actually making you weaker by scaling you up, and it got pretty much ignored. That is a major game-breaking concern, I would think the devs would really want to know about it. ; ;
I just think the shields damage reduction shouldn't stack in PVP or PVE and clerics healing needs toned down on other players by ~50% if damage is going to be nerfed. The difference between playing with, and against a cleric is like night and day. I can stand in their shield AOE and pretty much tank 1 class, and unless it's 2 classes doing huge burst to me, I can tank them too for a long time. The healing and damage reduction provided by a cleric is very strong and increases your survivability ten fold. I would like clerics to be weaker to make the overall game flow more balanced, and not "who has the most clerics" being such a big deciding factor in PVP.
Not that I think that having multiple clerics is an automatic win in PVP, I just think that it gives you a very big advantage over an enemy team without a single cleric. That and nerfing damage would make clerics even stronger, so if damage goes down, cleric healing needs to as well.
Dailies can almost one shot people.
But I can also just Ray of Enfeeble someone and then just spam magic missiles and drop someone from 100-50 in 2 seconds lol, and I'm not even in the best gear.
CC DR's aren't necessary, especially if there is supposed to be a controller type class (CW) that would just make that style of play completely useless.
If the TTK wasn't so ridiculously low, CC wouldn't be a problem.
maxing action points is the way to take down people, and its very important. CC's also very important in pvp dont nerf them or game will be broken. dont do anything game is fine.
I understand this is first and foremost a PvE game but given you intend to expand on PvP in the future you really need to make it more enjoyable to play. Literally everyone I know simply grabs the free gear from glory at 60 then never goes back, right now it's a mess.
Everyone dying within two hits isn't actually true even when you include the dailies mainly because of how the cleric functions.
PvP against even teams has a premium on positional play which is, while somewhat strange, is fine and while some things need tuning I would not say it is horribly out of balance.
Is it fun for organized teams? Probably. Is it fun for pugs? Probably not since it tends to land slide.
Keep in mind when you're talking about PvP you're actually talking about Domination... not an actual arena.
Can you provide at least one example of your claim?
People that post threads like this have no concept of balance. They just swing things wildly and end up with the same problems with different classes.
Finally, I prefer fast pace dodge or die type of fights. It's just make much more sense to me then 2 ppl pew-pew for 2 mins to bring one of them down.
This is the most <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> paragraph i have ever read on this game. No class is op right now yes rogues do high damage so do control wizards yet when you touch them they die learn to play your freaking classes people
Not once, in any of the nerf-threads here, have I read how YOUR TEAM lost.
You have 4 other people around you for support, there are 4 other people that rely on you for support, but all you seem to whine about is how YOU lose to class X, so nerf X.
People keep bringing up "organized teams" - I don't think anyone will care enough about PVP in this game to run "organized groups", especially when you gain almost as much glory from losing as winning, and the grind days less than 5 days max of casually playing.
The game shouldn't ONLY be balanced for "organized teams", there isn't even a ladder, a organized team format, or any competitive aspects at all in this games PVP. It is purely a random 5vs5 skirmish fight that you CAN queue with others, but nothing encourages you to make your team and climb a ladder or get a high rank, or anything. I haven't met a single organized team in my entire time PVPing at level60, so they are very rare.
PVP, especially when you can join as solo, duo, or a full team, should be fun for all types. Not just fun for organized teams only, if it's only intended for organized teams, you should not be able to queue without 4 others, and there should be ladders, rankings, and other cool stuff that show it's a competitive team based game(like DOTA2/LOL/ETC). Is the game fun if you run 5vs5 comps? Maybe, cool if it is, but since 99.99% of people will be running solo or duo with a buddy, that game type should be fun too.
He was saying that because none of your points sound good at all
I'm not gonna bash you or nothing, but my rogue is decked out in FULL T2 gear. A Weapons fighter in T1 gear can destroy a Rogue, that's no lie either. It's happened many times to me actually. As for the Rogue doing incredible amounts of damage... Well... What did you think a rogue is supposed to do? They're the main DPS class, no other class should actually exceed the amount of damage they dish out. Most of the rogue's damage is "Single-Target" only, we can't do massive AoE damage like a Weapon's Fighter can, this is why the damage should be incredibly high for a rogue, because it makes sense for a single target DPS class to actually do DPS.
I don't use the smoke bomb much in PvP, mainly due to the smoke bomb is definitely not as OP as you claim it to be. The smoke bomb's Cooldown in some instances is actually far too long. It lasts what? 5 seconds, and it ONLY works as long as you're in the smoke period. If you're out of the smoke, you're out of the daze effect, and go back to owning the rogue. It's only if you stay in the smoke like a dummy (and no I'm not targeting you personally, but everyone who does this in general), that the smoke bomb is actually deadly. Honestly, if you're a Control Wizard, or any other ranged class, you just stay clear of this, and a Rogue is your easy kill.
Somethings could be changed in PvP but my opinions would definitely be different from yours.
As of now, the Control Wizard seems to be the strongest in PvP, or I would say. However, I went on, and on about this class, but, when it came down to it... When I actually got my friend (my Team) together, No matter what the enemy team had, we forced em to submit and AFK in almost 5 mins every match.
As much as I'd like to B_tch about PvP, and the classes.... I think it pretty much all comes down to how well your team coordinates with one another. My team consisted of a Rogue, Cleric, Control Wizard, and Weapon Fighter. That's right, we only have 4 people... The fifth one didn't matter really, because we all used vent (my server), and targeted the problems themselves in PvP. Once they've been dealt with, the other team just fell apart.
In short... I think it all comes down to coordination. No matter how much someone B-tches, It's just that... This is why this game has Voice-chat as well, to coordinate with your team. However... Not a lotta people have used this. But whatever, this is simply my opinion of PvP. Everyone has their own ideas at the end of the day.
(EDIT: And yes, We're all lvl 60)