PWE is a billion dollar company, and requires no charity or kickstarter funds.
If this is the case then the server instability should not be occurring, either that or they need to remove the cash shop.
The server is performing worse and worse, and is making it difficult to play. The expected service is no longer being provided.
Kind of an ignorant post. Any MMO has down time. Especially during launch, which is what this is, effectively. I have not had any performance issues at all.
Prices in the cash shop are a different story.
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lollieMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Kind of an ignorant post. Any MMO has down time. Especially during launch, which is what this is, effectively. I have not had any performance issues at all.
Prices in the cash shop are a different story.
Your post is ignorant, not mine: You may not have had any issues, but others certainly have (my whole guild had issues at same time, so (*shock horror* it's them not us). Saying just because you don't have any issues therefore everyone is lying or whatever else you conclude comes from ignorance (as you are excluding data). And prices in cash shop are ridiculous, on this I can agree.
Perfect World makes enough money that they would not need an open cash shop in a game in beta development stage to finance it.
Check their latest financial results and balance sheets.
I don't seem to understand the lack of knowledge regarding bureaucracies in nearly every single post in this thread. Perfect World is required to allocate their funds wisely to make sure that their games are all fully functional and do not become a financial liability. In every business in existence, if there is a branch that is causing a large amount of loss, it is cut loose. Why would any business purposely force themselves to take a loss?
This game is not a free service, it is a branch of a fully functioning business which is given a budget to operate with. With very little research, one will find that the career of a software developer is one of the most complex fields and (possibly) one of the highest paying jobs available right now. Without additional funding from any possible facet, there would be no way to afford the help from people in this field and also keep from acquiring mass amounts of debt. If the suggestions from this forum were actually taken into consideration, this company would be be sold immediately to an investor who would do the exact same thing that this company is doing right now.
The term open beta in this context is obviously used as a disclaimer that the game is not yet fully complete or debugged. It is necessary to have the open public explore this game to assist the developers in improving the game so it can be fully completed and polished before content patches are released.
If anyone in this forum understood the necessary steps and precautions to provide sustainability and prevent this game from going under within two months after open beta has passed, the current business plan used by Perfect World and its subsidiaries would be appreciated.
I suggest not only educating yourselves on how corporations provide a sustainable business, but also get a job. Maybe you'll be able to stop crying about how the company chooses to make their money and also be able to afford to make purchases from the cash shop.
P.s. A balance sheet only shows that assets equate to liabilities plus stockholder's equity. Your last statement was entirely invalid and makes no sense whatsoever.
Your post is ignorant, not mine: You may not have had any issues, but others certainly have (my whole guild had issues at same time, so (*shock horror* it's them not us). And prices in cash shop are ridiculous, on this I can agree.
The portion I was referring to as ignorant was the part where you said they need to remove the cash shop because of "server instability"...which many folks are not experiencing. I followed that by saying any game has server issues and to be honest, this one hasnt had many. Server instability complaints are inexistant on these forums. Class imbalance and the cash shop/AD prices are rampant.
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lollieMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
The term open beta in this context is obviously used as a disclaimer that the game is not yet fully complete or debugged. It is necessary to have the open public explore this game to assist the developers in improving the game so it can be fully completed and polished before content patches are released...
As soon as we are paying, we expect service. Having a cash shop in a beta where they claim it really is only beta (as do you, saying we should be testing game) goes against keeping the money once game is released. If game is in beta, then we are testing. If we are testing then the money we submit to test the cash shop should be returned upon game's release.
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lollieMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Server instability complaints are inexistant on these forums.
The server instability has caused game to go down many times in the one day - at the time of OP the server had crashed multiple times for everyone, keeping server down for upwards of 8 hours in the one day - and this on an event weekend. I am surprised you have no knowledge of this.
As soon as we are paying, we expect service. Having a cash shop in a beta where they claim it really is only beta (as do you, saying we should be testing game) goes against keeping the money once game is released. If game is in beta, then we are testing. If we are testing then the money we submit to test the cash shop should be returned upon game's release.
You use the word "we" very loosely. By using this term you're implying that everyone is paying. If this were the case, you'd probably receive better service. However, you would also have to pay the price of a large in-game time sink like timed travel, only being able to complete each instance once per day, and/or slower leveling. These are common things in pay-to-play games with only a 15 dollar per month fee to prevent people from playing the game 24/7, obtaining everything in the game, then getting bored and quitting between content patches.
You also don't seem to understand that the cash shop is optional and honestly plays a very small role in your in-game experience. If you haven't noticed, you can sell most (if not all) of the items on the in-game auction house and others can purchase them with in-game currency. Before the argument of "It takes too long to save up for these items" comes up, I want to address the fact that this company and their employees don't work countless hours to provide you with a product to enjoy for free. They have to have paychecks, too. Nothing is free and nothing will ever be free, the sooner everyone will realize this the sooner they'll be able to stop whining and enjoy this already incredibly made game.
Also, if you're too proud to make purchases from the auction house and have people call you a "PAY TO WIN FGT" because you're riding a mount that isn't a horse, just purchase 15 dollars of zen per month and earn everything else. It would definitely even itself out.
The main thing with a proclaimed beta and cash shop is the following; A game in beta development by definition is still subject to changes, potentially sweeping changes. Without a road-map for these changes a player is unable to assess the extent of them. This means the changes can have unintended consequences for the value of their purchases. Not to mention that the actual pricing strategy is still subject to change too (and for a healthy cash shop, they WILL need to change).
In endgame it currently looks like the cash shop isn't optional (unless you want to spend years on single items(enchants), which dismisses it as viable option). This is plain dangerous combined with the beta development status. I'm pretty sure according to the EU laws (which protect consumers -the weaker party- a lot more than US ones do) you could make a case for 100% on demand refunds as long as the game retains beta status. Because what was once advertised as A could now be of B value and of C value in the future.
The main thing with a proclaimed beta and cash shop is the following; A game in beta development by definition is still subject to changes, potentially sweeping changes. Without a road-map for these changes a player is unable to assess the extent of them. This means the changes can have unintended consequences for the value of their purchases. Not to mention that the actual pricing strategy is still subject to change too (and for a healthy cash shop, they WILL need to change).
In endgame it currently looks like the cash shop isn't optional (unless you want to spend years on single items(enchants), which dismisses it as viable option). This is plain dangerous combined with the beta development status. I'm pretty sure according to the EU laws (which protect consumers -the weaker party- a lot more than US ones do) you could make a case for 100% on demand refunds as long as the game retains beta status. Because what was once advertised as A could now be of B value and of C value in the future.
Refunds could only be demanded if there was a promise made from the seller. Perfect World doesn't promise that your purchases will not become obsolete. Regardless of the time spent to obtain high tiered enchants, the game has no retail price (usually 40-60 US dollars upon release, not including further expansions) and no subscription fee, usually 12-15 US dollars per month. You could spend 184.00 - 240.00 US dollars annually on any other game. If you can't fit the items you want into your budget, I would suggest searching for a game that better accommodates your disposable income.
If the future changes and additions are too much of a risk because you're afraid that your purchase will not be worth the money, then don't spend money on the cash shop. Wait until you're ready to make an investment on something better that will be released later.
If you go to a car dealership and purchase a car for 10,000 dollars in 2012, you (hopefully) would not go back in 2020 to request your money back because it isn't worth nearly as much as it is now. Any person with an IQ above dirt knows that if the risk of an investment is too high for any reason at all, you shouldn't make the purchase.
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lollieMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
You use the word "we" very loosely. By using this term you're implying that everyone is paying.
You misunderstand. When I use the term "we" it's within the context, "as soon as we are paying", which refers to the "we" who are paying. I'm not at all doing what you think I'm doing.
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rdykattenMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 7Arc User
While for some arguments I will admit that, yes, the definition of an "open beta" is being smudged to be a marketing ploy, this is simply silly. We ain't testing ****. We are not QA Analysts. We can parade around and poke at the game and try and make it break for the benefit of the company, but that's not us doing anything productive. The open beta is them releasing their game in its current state to an open market of third-party consumers. Straight off of Wikipedia:
Open betas serve the dual purpose of demonstrating a product to potential consumers, and testing among an extremely wide user base likely to bring to light obscure errors that a much smaller testing team might not find.
This is not us doing a service for them. This is them showcasing their product and preparing to enter the final steps of of the software release life cycle. Beta is not necessarily equal to demo.
The game is a completely playable state, and they are actively improving upon the game. From the time of the Heroes of the North entered the game and now, the networking behind the game has improved drastically enough that I personally have gone from being unable to truly enjoy the combat to very rarely having any sort of rubberbanding issues. What started with lag, and large queues, eventually came to instant log-ins and rare desync. They are actively improving upon the game.
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lollieMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
This is not us doing a service for them. This is them showcasing their product and preparing to enter the final steps of of the software release life cycle..
This is my point - apologists keep saying the game is in beta so anything bad happening is acceptable, yet it clearly is not in beta as the cash shop is operative.
Either it is in beta (in which case there should be no cash shop), or it is not in beta (in which case you can't make excuses when service is poor).
Neverwinter is currently in Open Beta. During Open Beta you have the opportunity to pick up items from the cash shop that will persist through Open Beta and Launch. These are permanent purchases that you get to keep (aside from items that are consumed through use, of course). They are not removed from your account, nor are the purchases refunded.
We always welcome feedback regarding how the game should function during Alpha/Closed Beta/Open Beta/Launch, so please continue to share your feedback! However, please make sure this feedback is clearly posted as feedback, to ensure that other users who read your comments are given accurate information regarding the current functionality. Thank you!
Beta is a CODE STATE. Not a Fiscal State. Beta has nothing to do with whether a person pays a penny for the game. In the Beta Code State most of the major functions of the Software have been implemented. Future detailing, bug fixes, and additional functionality may still be added or altered for full functionality.
Conventionally, no end users put money down before the game exits the beta state. Because at that point it's a paid service or product. And allowing people to pay for a beta-state usually results in ill-will, as you can see all through this thread and all the other threads. The only money that goes into the company's pockets is from investors.
In this instance we're seeing a game in the Beta State accepting currency in exchange for services. This does not change the fact that the game is in Beta State. It does, however, result in the company being made responsible to ensure end users have access to the software and the services they are paying for.
To that end, Cryptic has done it's best to keep the servers up and running, have made good faith gestures in the form of quickly patching issues, and are working on getting server stability to maximum expected performance.
It remains a Beta. It could be argued that this Beta State is actually late Alpha, based on the missing functionalities that haven't been fully implemented, yet. It is not Launched. It is not Soft-Launched. It remains in a Beta state.
-Rachel-
Great Weapon Fighter tanks? Who are you kidding? Cleric tanks. They draw -all- the aggro.
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lollieMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Beta is a CODE STATE. Not a Fiscal State. Beta has nothing to do with whether a person pays a penny for the game. In the Beta Code State most of the major functions of the Software have been implemented. Future detailing, bug fixes, and additional functionality may still be added or altered for full functionality.
Conventionally, no end users put money down before the game exits the beta state. Because at that point it's a paid service or product. And allowing people to pay for a beta-state usually results in ill-will, as you can see all through this thread and all the other threads. The only money that goes into the company's pockets is from investors.
In this instance we're seeing a game in the Beta State accepting currency in exchange for services. This does not change the fact that the game is in Beta State. It does, however, result in the company being made responsible to ensure end users have access to the software and the services they are paying for.
To that end, Cryptic has done it's best to keep the servers up and running, have made good faith gestures in the form of quickly patching issues, and are working on getting server stability to maximum expected performance.
It remains a Beta. It could be argued that this Beta State is actually late Alpha, based on the missing functionalities that haven't been fully implemented, yet. It is not Launched. It is not Soft-Launched. It remains in a Beta state.
-Rachel-
This just makes the company cheap/disreputable and the users idiots.
You could even make a convincing argument that it's unethical to sell game services before launching the product. Feel free.
Just don't call it launched. That's the only part I get frustrated with. And it's a constant misconception that people trot out to express their frustration.
-Rachel-
Great Weapon Fighter tanks? Who are you kidding? Cleric tanks. They draw -all- the aggro.
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lollieMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
You could even make a convincing argument that it's unethical to sell game services before launching the product. Feel free.
Just don't call it launched. That's the only part I get frustrated with. And it's a constant misconception that people trot out to express their frustration.
-Rachel-
It's unethical. That is probably the best way to describe it.
I don't seem to understand the lack of knowledge regarding bureaucracies in nearly every single post in this thread. Perfect World is required to allocate their funds wisely to make sure that their games are all fully functional and do not become a financial liability. In every business in existence, if there is a branch that is causing a large amount of loss, it is cut loose. Why would any business purposely force themselves to take a loss?
This game is not a free service, it is a branch of a fully functioning business which is given a budget to operate with. With very little research, one will find that the career of a software developer is one of the most complex fields and (possibly) one of the highest paying jobs available right now. Without additional funding from any possible facet, there would be no way to afford the help from people in this field and also keep from acquiring mass amounts of debt. If the suggestions from this forum were actually taken into consideration, this company would be be sold immediately to an investor who would do the exact same thing that this company is doing right now.
The term open beta in this context is obviously used as a disclaimer that the game is not yet fully complete or debugged. It is necessary to have the open public explore this game to assist the developers in improving the game so it can be fully completed and polished before content patches are released.
If anyone in this forum understood the necessary steps and precautions to provide sustainability and prevent this game from going under within two months after open beta has passed, the current business plan used by Perfect World and its subsidiaries would be appreciated.
I suggest not only educating yourselves on how corporations provide a sustainable business, but also get a job. Maybe you'll be able to stop crying about how the company chooses to make their money and also be able to afford to make purchases from the cash shop.
P.s. A balance sheet only shows that assets equate to liabilities plus stockholder's equity. Your last statement was entirely invalid and makes no sense whatsoever.
Okay. The state of the game at this time is akin to this example:
Customer goes to the car lot to buy car. Finds one he/she likes and purchases it.
Customer gets keys, goes to car, gets in and goes to start it. Won't start. Everything else works, radio, windows, etc. But it just won't start.
Customer finds sales rep, and asks, "Hey, what's up? Car won't start!! You sold me junk!"
Sales rep replies, "No, the engine is in beta testing."
Customer frowns, thinking, then "Oh. Okay then. I'll just tow my car home and sit in it and listen to the radio every now and again until the engine gets out of beta."
The game is in an UNFINISHED STATE. Much like the car. Except all the people supporting the game are basically saying it's okay to spend money on the car(game) while it is incomplete.
Would you buy that car? Why not? Then ask yourself....why did/should I spend money on ANY unfinished product, including this game?
"Why, we want to show our support." Ppffaugh. Tripe excuse. Because so very few players now are actually testing this product. 99.9999% of us are PLAYING. And Cryptic is laughing all the way to the bank, bet your bottom dollar.
It's your money, however. And as someone in a previous post pointed out....sweeping changes can come through at any time, totally invalidating your purchase. Or even devaluing it. Do you really think Cryptic will refund your money in such a case?
Let's say they decide to nerf mount speed. Or better yet, lower the cost of them. Those of you that have actually paid for mounts are going to be livid. Guaranteed. And also guaranteed, Cryptic will not refund your purchases in any way. Why? The game is in BETA(Even though it's not, really.). Having that label attached means they can pretty much get away with almost anything. And, being a corporation based upon profits, they will, if it means more profits.
It's more like having a car, for free, that has severe engine trouble... And buying an expensive sound system and fuzzy dice for it.
You're not buying the car, nor paying for the repairs that it's undergoing. But you can't access your stereo system or fuzzy dice until it is out of the shop.
Also: BETA IS A CODE STATE. NOT A FISCAL STATE. STOP SAYING IT ISN'T IN BETA WHEN IT CLEARLY IS.
-Rachel-
Great Weapon Fighter tanks? Who are you kidding? Cleric tanks. They draw -all- the aggro.
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ozhMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 14Arc User
Reguardless of what Cryptic or the Devs or anyone associated with the company wants to spin this as. If you asked the general gaming populace those of us that have been around basicly since Mmo's started. The majority will tell you 9 out of 10 times that this is what every other gaming company calls release. In the passed 15 years I've only once paid anything to any company during a propsed actual beta and that was SWG to recieve the install disk. Every other beta I have ever been in including current games in open beta have never called there games a open beta yet charged or gone to any F2P model. If thats how Cryptic/PWE want to try and redifine the term thats fine, though they will be the extreme outlier in this circumstance as the term has a diffrent well defined meaning.
It is more about the experience itself rather than whether you call it "open beta", "testing 1-2-3", "confused players" or "fairy tales".
In my experience D3 is in open-beta still!!!!! But the publisher Blizz calls it a complete game. So here you go with a counter example.
I hope you do not confuse a heated argument with war. To remind you wars, kill people while arguments, get facts sorted out in an orderly manner. My point was, to remain civil, that cash ruins any game. I was more or less arguing in favor of a flat transaction model. Because if the devs really spent the last year or so implementing monetization models, they wasted my time. Raising satisfaction curves should be entirely based on exciting excursions, delves, crawls, skirmishes and suchlike. Not on the balance of your purse.
<ok sorry wrong thread. someone hyper-bypassed me from someone's thread about beta and refunds on cash payments>
Which explains why the game is F2P. When you pay for something in the cash shop, you are doing just that, paying for the item, not the service. If the item is any less than advertised, then you have a reason to complain about it.
except you cant complain
the goods are 'virtual', are spawned in a virtual world, and technically still their property
f2p is a scam
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forsakenlich1Banned Users, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Neverwinter is currently in Open Beta. During Open Beta you have the opportunity to pick up items from the cash shop that will persist through Open Beta and Launch. These are permanent purchases that you get to keep (aside from items that are consumed, of course)! They are not removed from your account, nor are the purchases refunded.
We always welcome feedback regarding how the game should function during Alpha/Closed Beta/Open Beta/Launch, so please continue to share your feedback! However, please make sure this feedback is clearly posted as feedback, to ensure that other users who read your comments are given accurate information regarding the current functionality.
(editing thread title slightly to reduce potential confusion - thanks in advance for understanding!)
Thank you!
read: we can name anything anything we want. define it the way we want and your going to like it because the community is dumb and we feed off fools who rush to anything that has the word 'free' attached to it
Game is not in beta, no matter what any moderator says. It is a soft launch, and the word beta is used so that bugs and ****-ups are viewed less unfavourably. NWO is no more in beta than any other launched MMO.
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forsakenlich1Banned Users, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
There are still a lot of known problems with the game, which they are actively working to fix, but most of the initial content is already finished. Sounds like a beta to me.
Also, one of the things that they may still be testing is the overall balance of the game, with the shop included in that balance. If they gave people free zen to test with, it would completely invalidate any observations, as would refunding purchases later (since people would feel more free to make those purchases in some situations, or avoid purchases of other things. If you knew all of your spent zen would be refunded in a week, you might respec more, and get temporary things, since long-term purchases won't matter after the refund, anyway).
For any discerning customer, they see what state this game is in.
Whether some shill paid for by the company to say whatever they deem to be necessary to convince people to spend more money not withstanding.
Call it open beta...call it launch. Call it alpha. Fact is.....there will be no more wipes and Cryptic will gladly take your money. That is a live product. But please Cryptic, keep defending it, cause the more you do, the worse you look and the better I feel about seeing an underhanded company brought to light.
Comments
Wow, mind = blown.
Do you honestly think that Riot invented the name/word 'riven'? Are you really that dumb?
Edit: just noticed, 'samuraikings'. Nothing further to add.
Kind of an ignorant post. Any MMO has down time. Especially during launch, which is what this is, effectively. I have not had any performance issues at all.
Prices in the cash shop are a different story.
Your post is ignorant, not mine: You may not have had any issues, but others certainly have (my whole guild had issues at same time, so (*shock horror* it's them not us). Saying just because you don't have any issues therefore everyone is lying or whatever else you conclude comes from ignorance (as you are excluding data). And prices in cash shop are ridiculous, on this I can agree.
I don't seem to understand the lack of knowledge regarding bureaucracies in nearly every single post in this thread. Perfect World is required to allocate their funds wisely to make sure that their games are all fully functional and do not become a financial liability. In every business in existence, if there is a branch that is causing a large amount of loss, it is cut loose. Why would any business purposely force themselves to take a loss?
This game is not a free service, it is a branch of a fully functioning business which is given a budget to operate with. With very little research, one will find that the career of a software developer is one of the most complex fields and (possibly) one of the highest paying jobs available right now. Without additional funding from any possible facet, there would be no way to afford the help from people in this field and also keep from acquiring mass amounts of debt. If the suggestions from this forum were actually taken into consideration, this company would be be sold immediately to an investor who would do the exact same thing that this company is doing right now.
The term open beta in this context is obviously used as a disclaimer that the game is not yet fully complete or debugged. It is necessary to have the open public explore this game to assist the developers in improving the game so it can be fully completed and polished before content patches are released.
If anyone in this forum understood the necessary steps and precautions to provide sustainability and prevent this game from going under within two months after open beta has passed, the current business plan used by Perfect World and its subsidiaries would be appreciated.
I suggest not only educating yourselves on how corporations provide a sustainable business, but also get a job. Maybe you'll be able to stop crying about how the company chooses to make their money and also be able to afford to make purchases from the cash shop.
P.s. A balance sheet only shows that assets equate to liabilities plus stockholder's equity. Your last statement was entirely invalid and makes no sense whatsoever.
The portion I was referring to as ignorant was the part where you said they need to remove the cash shop because of "server instability"...which many folks are not experiencing. I followed that by saying any game has server issues and to be honest, this one hasnt had many. Server instability complaints are inexistant on these forums. Class imbalance and the cash shop/AD prices are rampant.
As soon as we are paying, we expect service. Having a cash shop in a beta where they claim it really is only beta (as do you, saying we should be testing game) goes against keeping the money once game is released. If game is in beta, then we are testing. If we are testing then the money we submit to test the cash shop should be returned upon game's release.
The server instability has caused game to go down many times in the one day - at the time of OP the server had crashed multiple times for everyone, keeping server down for upwards of 8 hours in the one day - and this on an event weekend. I am surprised you have no knowledge of this.
You use the word "we" very loosely. By using this term you're implying that everyone is paying. If this were the case, you'd probably receive better service. However, you would also have to pay the price of a large in-game time sink like timed travel, only being able to complete each instance once per day, and/or slower leveling. These are common things in pay-to-play games with only a 15 dollar per month fee to prevent people from playing the game 24/7, obtaining everything in the game, then getting bored and quitting between content patches.
You also don't seem to understand that the cash shop is optional and honestly plays a very small role in your in-game experience. If you haven't noticed, you can sell most (if not all) of the items on the in-game auction house and others can purchase them with in-game currency. Before the argument of "It takes too long to save up for these items" comes up, I want to address the fact that this company and their employees don't work countless hours to provide you with a product to enjoy for free. They have to have paychecks, too. Nothing is free and nothing will ever be free, the sooner everyone will realize this the sooner they'll be able to stop whining and enjoy this already incredibly made game.
Also, if you're too proud to make purchases from the auction house and have people call you a "PAY TO WIN FGT" because you're riding a mount that isn't a horse, just purchase 15 dollars of zen per month and earn everything else. It would definitely even itself out.
In endgame it currently looks like the cash shop isn't optional (unless you want to spend years on single items(enchants), which dismisses it as viable option). This is plain dangerous combined with the beta development status. I'm pretty sure according to the EU laws (which protect consumers -the weaker party- a lot more than US ones do) you could make a case for 100% on demand refunds as long as the game retains beta status. Because what was once advertised as A could now be of B value and of C value in the future.
Refunds could only be demanded if there was a promise made from the seller. Perfect World doesn't promise that your purchases will not become obsolete. Regardless of the time spent to obtain high tiered enchants, the game has no retail price (usually 40-60 US dollars upon release, not including further expansions) and no subscription fee, usually 12-15 US dollars per month. You could spend 184.00 - 240.00 US dollars annually on any other game. If you can't fit the items you want into your budget, I would suggest searching for a game that better accommodates your disposable income.
If the future changes and additions are too much of a risk because you're afraid that your purchase will not be worth the money, then don't spend money on the cash shop. Wait until you're ready to make an investment on something better that will be released later.
If you go to a car dealership and purchase a car for 10,000 dollars in 2012, you (hopefully) would not go back in 2020 to request your money back because it isn't worth nearly as much as it is now. Any person with an IQ above dirt knows that if the risk of an investment is too high for any reason at all, you shouldn't make the purchase.
You misunderstand. When I use the term "we" it's within the context, "as soon as we are paying", which refers to the "we" who are paying. I'm not at all doing what you think I'm doing.
But you are receiving service.
While for some arguments I will admit that, yes, the definition of an "open beta" is being smudged to be a marketing ploy, this is simply silly. We ain't testing ****. We are not QA Analysts. We can parade around and poke at the game and try and make it break for the benefit of the company, but that's not us doing anything productive. The open beta is them releasing their game in its current state to an open market of third-party consumers. Straight off of Wikipedia:
This is not us doing a service for them. This is them showcasing their product and preparing to enter the final steps of of the software release life cycle. Beta is not necessarily equal to demo.
The game is a completely playable state, and they are actively improving upon the game. From the time of the Heroes of the North entered the game and now, the networking behind the game has improved drastically enough that I personally have gone from being unable to truly enjoy the combat to very rarely having any sort of rubberbanding issues. What started with lag, and large queues, eventually came to instant log-ins and rare desync. They are actively improving upon the game.
This is my point - apologists keep saying the game is in beta so anything bad happening is acceptable, yet it clearly is not in beta as the cash shop is operative.
Either it is in beta (in which case there should be no cash shop), or it is not in beta (in which case you can't make excuses when service is poor).
Beta is a CODE STATE. Not a Fiscal State. Beta has nothing to do with whether a person pays a penny for the game. In the Beta Code State most of the major functions of the Software have been implemented. Future detailing, bug fixes, and additional functionality may still be added or altered for full functionality.
Conventionally, no end users put money down before the game exits the beta state. Because at that point it's a paid service or product. And allowing people to pay for a beta-state usually results in ill-will, as you can see all through this thread and all the other threads. The only money that goes into the company's pockets is from investors.
In this instance we're seeing a game in the Beta State accepting currency in exchange for services. This does not change the fact that the game is in Beta State. It does, however, result in the company being made responsible to ensure end users have access to the software and the services they are paying for.
To that end, Cryptic has done it's best to keep the servers up and running, have made good faith gestures in the form of quickly patching issues, and are working on getting server stability to maximum expected performance.
It remains a Beta. It could be argued that this Beta State is actually late Alpha, based on the missing functionalities that haven't been fully implemented, yet. It is not Launched. It is not Soft-Launched. It remains in a Beta state.
-Rachel-
This just makes the company cheap/disreputable and the users idiots.
You could even make a convincing argument that it's unethical to sell game services before launching the product. Feel free.
Just don't call it launched. That's the only part I get frustrated with. And it's a constant misconception that people trot out to express their frustration.
-Rachel-
It's unethical. That is probably the best way to describe it.
http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/154/912/berneydidnotread.gif
Customer goes to the car lot to buy car. Finds one he/she likes and purchases it.
Customer gets keys, goes to car, gets in and goes to start it. Won't start. Everything else works, radio, windows, etc. But it just won't start.
Customer finds sales rep, and asks, "Hey, what's up? Car won't start!! You sold me junk!"
Sales rep replies, "No, the engine is in beta testing."
Customer frowns, thinking, then "Oh. Okay then. I'll just tow my car home and sit in it and listen to the radio every now and again until the engine gets out of beta."
The game is in an UNFINISHED STATE. Much like the car. Except all the people supporting the game are basically saying it's okay to spend money on the car(game) while it is incomplete.
Would you buy that car? Why not? Then ask yourself....why did/should I spend money on ANY unfinished product, including this game?
"Why, we want to show our support." Ppffaugh. Tripe excuse. Because so very few players now are actually testing this product. 99.9999% of us are PLAYING. And Cryptic is laughing all the way to the bank, bet your bottom dollar.
It's your money, however. And as someone in a previous post pointed out....sweeping changes can come through at any time, totally invalidating your purchase. Or even devaluing it. Do you really think Cryptic will refund your money in such a case?
Let's say they decide to nerf mount speed. Or better yet, lower the cost of them. Those of you that have actually paid for mounts are going to be livid. Guaranteed. And also guaranteed, Cryptic will not refund your purchases in any way. Why? The game is in BETA(Even though it's not, really.). Having that label attached means they can pretty much get away with almost anything. And, being a corporation based upon profits, they will, if it means more profits.
Occam's Razor makes the cutting clean.
You're not buying the car, nor paying for the repairs that it's undergoing. But you can't access your stereo system or fuzzy dice until it is out of the shop.
Also: BETA IS A CODE STATE. NOT A FISCAL STATE. STOP SAYING IT ISN'T IN BETA WHEN IT CLEARLY IS.
-Rachel-
It is more about the experience itself rather than whether you call it "open beta", "testing 1-2-3", "confused players" or "fairy tales".
In my experience D3 is in open-beta still!!!!! But the publisher Blizz calls it a complete game. So here you go with a counter example.
<ok sorry wrong thread. someone hyper-bypassed me from someone's thread about beta and refunds on cash payments>
You say beta, I say soft launch/release/money grab. I agree to disagree. Do you?
Occam's Razor makes the cutting clean.
except you cant complain
the goods are 'virtual', are spawned in a virtual world, and technically still their property
f2p is a scam
read: we can name anything anything we want. define it the way we want and your going to like it because the community is dumb and we feed off fools who rush to anything that has the word 'free' attached to it
Game is not in beta, no matter what any moderator says. It is a soft launch, and the word beta is used so that bugs and ****-ups are viewed less unfavourably. NWO is no more in beta than any other launched MMO.
Also, one of the things that they may still be testing is the overall balance of the game, with the shop included in that balance. If they gave people free zen to test with, it would completely invalidate any observations, as would refunding purchases later (since people would feel more free to make those purchases in some situations, or avoid purchases of other things. If you knew all of your spent zen would be refunded in a week, you might respec more, and get temporary things, since long-term purchases won't matter after the refund, anyway).
Whether some shill paid for by the company to say whatever they deem to be necessary to convince people to spend more money not withstanding.
Call it open beta...call it launch. Call it alpha. Fact is.....there will be no more wipes and Cryptic will gladly take your money. That is a live product. But please Cryptic, keep defending it, cause the more you do, the worse you look and the better I feel about seeing an underhanded company brought to light.