It sucks for PVErs too, though. Why ever roll a GWF when a 6 year old playing a rogue will have twice your damage done at the end of the dungeon, even though every dungeon is jampacked with AoE clearing? This was true for me at level 20, and it's still true at level 50. I guess I'll wait and see if it is true at the level cap, but if it is, then what's the point in playing GWF at all? You can't really tank, you have very limited control that applies to anything important, and your damage is just ok. Rogues outclass GWF's in literally every way.
And let's be honest; "striker" or not, GWF and CW's are DPS classes. They should be at least close to TR's (if still a little below.) Rogue DPS is just stupid and the other DPS classes really have nothing to close the gap with.
It sucks for PVErs too, though. Why ever roll a GWF when a 6 year old playing a rogue will have twice your damage done at the end of the dungeon, even though every dungeon is jampacked with AoE clearing? This was true for me at level 20, and it's still true at level 50. I guess I'll wait and see if it is true at the level cap, but if it is, then what's the point in playing GWF at all? You can't really tank, you have very limited control that applies to anything important, and your damage is just ok. Rogues outclass GWF's in literally every way.
And let's be honest; "striker" or not, GWF and CW's are DPS classes. They should be at least close to TR's (if still a little below.) Rogue DPS is just stupid and the other DPS classes really have nothing to close the gap with.
OK so I haven't done much PvE at level 60 but I find it hard to believe that a rogue will outdps a GWF with all the AoE that GWFs possess. We are a single-target DPS class. GWFs are an AoE DPS/tank hybrid. If they did as much single target DPS as us that would be absurd.
On the topic of DPS I am constantly getting one-shot from 50% of my health by Control Wizards' ice knife... I'm not complaining, I'm just pointing out that CWs do a lot of damage as well. And have you seen a DPS GF lately? They're a nightmare.
I urge everyone who thinks rogues are OP to get some more experience with HIGH LEVEL PvP before commenting. Or better yet, roll a rogue yourself and see how "OP" they really are.
0
ragnarsoulreaperMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 6Arc User
edited May 2013
I bet there's at least one "Nerf X Class" thread around here somewhere. It's all about how skilled that player is with the class and if they built them right with the right enchants, gear, etc. Yes, I have occasionally one shot someone with a lucky crit proc. But I have encountered at least once with every class a turnaround when I attacked them. Perhaps they should implement dueling so you can practice against whatever class you are having issues with.
All classes need balancing especially the gf and gwf it's sad that devs are only talking about foundry and lame **** instead of fixing the classes people are playing at endgame
You have no idea about what you are talking... yes, cause you are level 12, al level 12 it IS ok, at level 60 both fighters are USELESS, even the foundry quests that you do easily in levels until 40 will be a nightmare in level 60 cause the melee classes cant avoid being damaged. And the monster level FAR MORE than both fighters. At PVP on level 60 fighters are just plain bad. i am a GF and everytime i see a GF in the opponent team i fell happy cause it will be an easy game.
learn to block and use fighter's recovery or better yet reroll a nobrainer cleric like everyone else and their dogs .
GF is far from useless , use your brain and adapt you got the tools now use your grey matter instead of spreading HAMSTER on the forums .
The only pure DPS class (or "striker" for D&D afficionados) is the Trickster Rogue. It's only fair that we deal the most damage. We got nothing else.
You know something isnt quite right with rogues when they run epics in no gear at all and out damage other classes. And b4 you go all crazy im talking geared people who play their class. I watch rogues running ahead all the time and engaging mobs b4 anyone else arrrives so when you say all they have is damage that is far from correct.
And no i dont have problems with rogues in PVP although classes other than CW do.
You know something isnt quite right with rogues when they run epics in no gear at all and out damage other classes.
When you switch to the social clothing tab and remove the upper and lower parts, you will appear as naked with just the weapons. All the benefits of the actual gear are still active when you wear social clothing (or none). So this is just a display thing.
Also, GFs certainly have no issues with any class in PvP, and with Astral Shield stackimg neither do clerics if there are two or more.
When you switch to the social clothing tab and remove the upper and lower parts, you will appear as naked with just the weapons. All the benefits of the actual gear are still active when you wear social clothing (or none). So this is just a display thing.
Also, GFs certainly have no issues with any class in PvP, and with Astral Shield stackimg neither do clerics if there are two or more.
what a bunch on cry babies....learn to play your **** class, get the gear, learn the other class skills and then come back and complain...
ah and another thing, if you expect to face-roll every class with the same powerset you're a fool.
funny how all the QQ is about rogues when CW is WAY more OP
I think this is because it takes a lot more skill to do well with a CW than with a Rogue.
A good CW is almost unkillable, a bad CW is a free kill. By contrast, even an awful Rogue can just press all the buttons randomly and still usually win in PvP. Losing to a skilled player is part of the game, losing to someone just because their class can currently win by just randomly mashing their keyboard is pretty annoying.
I think this is because it takes a lot more skill to do well with a CW than with a Rogue.
A good CW is almost unkillable, a bad CW is a free kill. By contrast, even an awful Rogue can just press all the buttons randomly and still usually win in PvP. Losing to a skilled player is part of the game, losing to someone just because their class can currently win by just randomly mashing their keyboard is pretty annoying.
the skill cap between CW and TR isnt that big. TR has to anticipate where any moving target will be before doing an encounter, otherwise its wasted (tends to be hard with CW's +3 blinks). CW has a ****load of mobility, CC and burst - if you see a TR going stealth and then not be aware of it, it's your fault.
The game isn't about 1vs1. A CW almost never has all three blinks available, and sustained/burst damage outside of the daily is below that of some other classes.
I'm doing less PvP than I would like to because of the 200ms that we get from Europe and with the TTK being so extremely low in PvP at 60 (it's much better before), that doesn't really cut it against someone who doesn't keyboard turn (no one does here, but you know what I mean ).
I think perhaps damage should be halved in PvP. This would make more for tactical matches.
But many PvP players have a very low skill cap too, especially those playing FOTM classes.
If you are up against a CW, and he's bad you can frequently tell almost straight away and know you have a very good chance of beating him. Against a TR it seems their skill level doesn't make that much of a difference, as they seem to have a large enough burst/DPS advantage to frequently win anyway. Not saying that a great TR player won't do much better than a crappy TR player, just that even the worst TR players so long as they can manage to randomly hit their abilities will do pretty well.
Having tried all the classes apart from GF, I have to say that although at the highest skill levels a great CW player is probably the most scary opponent, it is by far easier to to win with little effort/skill on a TR than any other class. Hence their popularity in PvP.
oh wow they lose 1 player due to the DMG class doing what its supposed to.... DMG
You know what will happen if they nerf the class to nothing ? They will lose 30% of there player base at the very least considering the amount of people playing TR.
So go ahead quit you bad loser, thats all any of these people are who cry about TR bad losers nothing more.
Stop these posts about TR its beyond a joke, ive never seen so many people whine about a class as much as this.
The DMG class actually does DMG..... OMG NOOO WHAT EVER WILL WE DO.
I WANT
I WANT
I WANT
I WANT
Bunch of spoiled WoW brats, if you cant handle a TR then learn to play or buy some skill.
I honestly do not understand the QQ about rogues, they are the only striker class in this game
and they are meant to do damage.The class has a lot of flaws and mechanics that can easily
be avoided just by walking around, let alone dodging.
Most rogue skills are single target, static animations that immobilizes them while they cast.
This is true for all classes, but ranged classes have an easier time dealing damage,
since once you cast a skill it will hit unless your opponent dodges.
Rogues barely out DPS control wizards end game, and I've even seen many clerics deal some
decent damage. For a striker/DPS class to be on par with a cleric is hilarious, and I find it
odd that people always call nerf on everything they do not like. As soon as they lose
they complain, it's become a trend in every MMO to complain about rogues/thieves.
Control Wizards are by far the most easiest class to play imo, they can kite so easily
and still do massive DPS.
Triple Blink FTW.
I feel like GWF could use something of a buff so that we aren't essentially useless when Unstoppable is on CD, and only mildly useful when it is running. It'd also be nice to, while not breaking even, keep pace with rogue PvE damage. That single target dps should not outstrip GWF full on 3+ target clear damage.
TL;DR I don't care if Rogues get nerfed or not. Buff GWF so we don't feel useless while Unstoppable is down.
I'm really getting tired of seeing these threads every single day...
Not once do these scrubs think to improve their skill and learn their class. They don't even come up with CONSTRUCTIVE criticism it's always just "waaaaahh a rogue killed me nerf plox ;__;"
The worst part of it is that they comment on skill when they either
a) don't play a rogue
or
b) aren't even level 60
Let me spell it out for you HAMSTER: rogues are not OP. Control Wizards destroy us this is not debatable. Clerics and GFs have a good chance of beating us. The only class that we can reliably kill are GWFs.
I'll say it again: get to level 60, gear up your character, and then come back with CONSTRUCTIVE feedback about PvP and we might listen. Until then I'm going to leave you with the proverbial "learn to ****ing play"!
Over the top abusive but totally true. Would have been better had you not resorted to leeting it up
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
0
papi032Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I honestly do not understand the QQ about rogues, they are the only striker class in this game
and they are meant to do damage.The class has a lot of flaws and mechanics that can easily
be avoided just by walking around, let alone dodging.
Most rogue skills are single target, static animations that immobilizes them while they cast.
This is true for all classes, but ranged classes have an easier time dealing damage,
since once you cast a skill it will hit unless your opponent dodges.
Rogues barely out DPS control wizards end game, and I've even seen many clerics deal some
decent damage. For a striker/DPS class to be on par with a cleric is hilarious, and I find it
odd that people always call nerf on everything they do not like. As soon as they lose
they complain, it's become a trend in every MMO to complain about rogues/thieves.
Control Wizards are by far the most easiest class to play imo, they can kite so easily
and still do massive DPS.
Triple Blink FTW.
On top of that, rogues were nerfed alrdy in multiple passives and abilities, people just don't see that it happened
The only pure DPS class (or "striker" for D&D afficionados) is the Trickster Rogue. It's only fair that we deal the most damage. We got nothing else.
OK, i agree they should prolly do the most DPS. But wheres the trade off? I , as a cleric, have good survivability, but do HAMSTER for damage, thats the trade off for me. CW's are fairly squishy, Tanks are, well, tanks. GWF just suck in general, they really do need some love. TR's _ great dps, great survivability, easy to play, little to no learning curve.
Every game has at least one of these classes for the un-skilled masses to play, enjoy and generally get hooked on.
I understand it, just wish it wasn't so obvious this time. Seriously, I don't pvp so i won't speak to that. But in end game pve dungeons TR's just destroy stuff, they run ahead and don't even wait for healers, tanks, anyone. They kill so fast i basicaly just rum around picking stuff up until we get to a boss. Yes i have seen rogues tank T1 and T2 bosses, this really can't be working as intended.
How can this be fun? there literaly is no content in game that is chalenging to TR's. I would think that pretty quickly all these FOTM TR's are just gunna quite until the next FOTM comes out.
I'm sure this changes beyond level 20 - I'm a new player who just recently hit 20 - but this is not strictly true. If you stack your targets such that they're bunched up, you can hit them all with your skills. It is the reason I was able to solo CT at 18 without doing anything special. Get them running at you, stealth, move around a bit, they'll bunch up. Clobber them all with your stun, and mulch them. So far, my experience with the game as a TR mainly consists of running with my GWF buddy. I've told him to just reroll a TR so we can really clobber stuff. (To his credit, he's gonna stick it out in the hope that his class gets some TLC.)
i'm a rogue and mostly under the first 3 on the table but still get beatn the HAMSTER out by CW, GF and GWF, if they know how to play (most of them don't). cleric is also heavy going from time to time, if a cleric gets support from another cleric and they have the same proper skill tree it's even for two rogues quiet a hassle to make any impact on them. i think the group constellation is crucial to the win and loss of a battle and the daily's are crucial in a 1on1 of course.. it's hard to avoid them as an opponent, but i think it's possible... my oneshot daily get's to 30% interrupted if opponent times his movement and cc.
In this thread: Clueless TR players who think it's an L2P issue.
Remmeber Mark T.
"Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience."
1.They will just add a Anti-Rogue Item to Zen Shop.Buy it for $LEG and $KIDNEY and problem solved.
2.If you already spent ur leg and kidney or don't have one, roll Rogue.
3.Don't wanna roll rogue whine.moar whining.
4.Tired.Roll Rogue now.
5.Congrats.Quit this game until cryptic realizes and fixes these issues.
6.Go back to step 1.
"Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience."
1.They will just add a Anti-Rogue Item to Zen Shop.Buy it for $LEG and $KIDNEY and problem solved.
2.If you already spent ur leg and kidney or don't have one, roll Rogue.
3.Don't wanna roll rogue whine.moar whining.
4.Tired.Roll Rogue now.
5.If you have come this far that means you are not yolo swaggins.Congrats.Quit this game until cryptic realizes and fixes these issues.
6.Go back to step 1.
Regards.
the term "yolo swaggings" invalidates your 6 step plan. . .
Comments
And let's be honest; "striker" or not, GWF and CW's are DPS classes. They should be at least close to TR's (if still a little below.) Rogue DPS is just stupid and the other DPS classes really have nothing to close the gap with.
OK so I haven't done much PvE at level 60 but I find it hard to believe that a rogue will outdps a GWF with all the AoE that GWFs possess. We are a single-target DPS class. GWFs are an AoE DPS/tank hybrid. If they did as much single target DPS as us that would be absurd.
On the topic of DPS I am constantly getting one-shot from 50% of my health by Control Wizards' ice knife... I'm not complaining, I'm just pointing out that CWs do a lot of damage as well. And have you seen a DPS GF lately? They're a nightmare.
I urge everyone who thinks rogues are OP to get some more experience with HIGH LEVEL PvP before commenting. Or better yet, roll a rogue yourself and see how "OP" they really are.
learn to block and use fighter's recovery or better yet reroll a nobrainer cleric like everyone else and their dogs .
GF is far from useless , use your brain and adapt you got the tools now use your grey matter instead of spreading HAMSTER on the forums .
You know something isnt quite right with rogues when they run epics in no gear at all and out damage other classes. And b4 you go all crazy im talking geared people who play their class. I watch rogues running ahead all the time and engaging mobs b4 anyone else arrrives so when you say all they have is damage that is far from correct.
And no i dont have problems with rogues in PVP although classes other than CW do.
When you switch to the social clothing tab and remove the upper and lower parts, you will appear as naked with just the weapons. All the benefits of the actual gear are still active when you wear social clothing (or none). So this is just a display thing.
Also, GFs certainly have no issues with any class in PvP, and with Astral Shield stackimg neither do clerics if there are two or more.
DOING THIS RIGHT NOW!!!
Ahh thank god for that.
ah and another thing, if you expect to face-roll every class with the same powerset you're a fool.
I think this is because it takes a lot more skill to do well with a CW than with a Rogue.
A good CW is almost unkillable, a bad CW is a free kill. By contrast, even an awful Rogue can just press all the buttons randomly and still usually win in PvP. Losing to a skilled player is part of the game, losing to someone just because their class can currently win by just randomly mashing their keyboard is pretty annoying.
the skill cap between CW and TR isnt that big. TR has to anticipate where any moving target will be before doing an encounter, otherwise its wasted (tends to be hard with CW's +3 blinks). CW has a ****load of mobility, CC and burst - if you see a TR going stealth and then not be aware of it, it's your fault.
I'm doing less PvP than I would like to because of the 200ms that we get from Europe and with the TTK being so extremely low in PvP at 60 (it's much better before), that doesn't really cut it against someone who doesn't keyboard turn (no one does here, but you know what I mean
I think perhaps damage should be halved in PvP. This would make more for tactical matches.
But many PvP players have a very low skill cap too, especially those playing FOTM classes.
If you are up against a CW, and he's bad you can frequently tell almost straight away and know you have a very good chance of beating him. Against a TR it seems their skill level doesn't make that much of a difference, as they seem to have a large enough burst/DPS advantage to frequently win anyway. Not saying that a great TR player won't do much better than a crappy TR player, just that even the worst TR players so long as they can manage to randomly hit their abilities will do pretty well.
Having tried all the classes apart from GF, I have to say that although at the highest skill levels a great CW player is probably the most scary opponent, it is by far easier to to win with little effort/skill on a TR than any other class. Hence their popularity in PvP.
You know what will happen if they nerf the class to nothing ? They will lose 30% of there player base at the very least considering the amount of people playing TR.
So go ahead quit you bad loser, thats all any of these people are who cry about TR bad losers nothing more.
Stop these posts about TR its beyond a joke, ive never seen so many people whine about a class as much as this.
The DMG class actually does DMG..... OMG NOOO WHAT EVER WILL WE DO.
I WANT
I WANT
I WANT
I WANT
Bunch of spoiled WoW brats, if you cant handle a TR then learn to play or buy some skill.
Tricksters get smacked around all the time. Thanks for playing.
and they are meant to do damage.The class has a lot of flaws and mechanics that can easily
be avoided just by walking around, let alone dodging.
Most rogue skills are single target, static animations that immobilizes them while they cast.
This is true for all classes, but ranged classes have an easier time dealing damage,
since once you cast a skill it will hit unless your opponent dodges.
Rogues barely out DPS control wizards end game, and I've even seen many clerics deal some
decent damage. For a striker/DPS class to be on par with a cleric is hilarious, and I find it
odd that people always call nerf on everything they do not like. As soon as they lose
they complain, it's become a trend in every MMO to complain about rogues/thieves.
Control Wizards are by far the most easiest class to play imo, they can kite so easily
and still do massive DPS.
Triple Blink FTW.
TL;DR I don't care if Rogues get nerfed or not. Buff GWF so we don't feel useless while Unstoppable is down.
Cool story, bro.
Over the top abusive but totally true. Would have been better had you not resorted to leeting it up
On top of that, rogues were nerfed alrdy in multiple passives and abilities, people just don't see that it happened
With that I have to agree.
OK, i agree they should prolly do the most DPS. But wheres the trade off? I , as a cleric, have good survivability, but do HAMSTER for damage, thats the trade off for me. CW's are fairly squishy, Tanks are, well, tanks. GWF just suck in general, they really do need some love. TR's _ great dps, great survivability, easy to play, little to no learning curve.
Every game has at least one of these classes for the un-skilled masses to play, enjoy and generally get hooked on.
I understand it, just wish it wasn't so obvious this time. Seriously, I don't pvp so i won't speak to that. But in end game pve dungeons TR's just destroy stuff, they run ahead and don't even wait for healers, tanks, anyone. They kill so fast i basicaly just rum around picking stuff up until we get to a boss. Yes i have seen rogues tank T1 and T2 bosses, this really can't be working as intended.
How can this be fun? there literaly is no content in game that is chalenging to TR's. I would think that pretty quickly all these FOTM TR's are just gunna quite until the next FOTM comes out.
Basically this. And judging by the proportion of TRs in PvP this is hardly a secret........
there will not be a wipe
they're making money now
not beta
I'm sure this changes beyond level 20 - I'm a new player who just recently hit 20 - but this is not strictly true. If you stack your targets such that they're bunched up, you can hit them all with your skills. It is the reason I was able to solo CT at 18 without doing anything special. Get them running at you, stealth, move around a bit, they'll bunch up. Clobber them all with your stun, and mulch them. So far, my experience with the game as a TR mainly consists of running with my GWF buddy. I've told him to just reroll a TR so we can really clobber stuff. (To his credit, he's gonna stick it out in the hope that his class gets some TLC.)
i'm a rogue and mostly under the first 3 on the table but still get beatn the HAMSTER out by CW, GF and GWF, if they know how to play (most of them don't). cleric is also heavy going from time to time, if a cleric gets support from another cleric and they have the same proper skill tree it's even for two rogues quiet a hassle to make any impact on them. i think the group constellation is crucial to the win and loss of a battle and the daily's are crucial in a 1on1 of course.. it's hard to avoid them as an opponent, but i think it's possible... my oneshot daily get's to 30% interrupted if opponent times his movement and cc.
Remmeber Mark T.
"Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience."
1.They will just add a Anti-Rogue Item to Zen Shop.Buy it for $LEG and $KIDNEY and problem solved.
2.If you already spent ur leg and kidney or don't have one, roll Rogue.
3.Don't wanna roll rogue whine.moar whining.
4.Tired.Roll Rogue now.
5.Congrats.Quit this game until cryptic realizes and fixes these issues.
6.Go back to step 1.
Regards.
the term "yolo swaggings" invalidates your 6 step plan. . .