I feel like GWF could use something of a buff so that we aren't essentially useless when Unstoppable is on CD, and only mildly useful when it is running. It'd also be nice to, while not breaking even, keep pace with rogue PvE damage. That single target dps should not outstrip GWF full on 3+ target clear damage.
TL;DR I don't care if Rogues get nerfed or not. Buff GWF so we don't feel useless while Unstoppable is down.
Useless when Unstoppable is down? It's hardly EVER down in PvP. Flourish and Takedown offer even more CC when combined in conjunction with another GWF or a CW. Watch a GWF run in, drops Flourish followed by TD; I run in drop TD followed by Flourish. TR = Dead.
TR's build our Determination so fast. As soon as they come out of stealth, Unstoppable should be at half and should be popped. Drop your encounters and watch the Rogue run if he was lucky.
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orangerascalMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I can completely agree with Rogues and Wizards being grossly overpowered, as mentioned in this thread.
Rogues do so much damage, absolutely nothing stands in their way. Give them the pocket healer companion and life steal bonuses on top of their insane damage and they are absolutely immortal in PvE. In PvP, virtually every rogue can VERY, very quickly out-dps my cleric, and there's not enough healspam in the world to stop them. The score remains TR: win, DC: lose, every single time. It would be nice if there was even a snowball's chance in hell of killing a TR with a DC, but there isn't.
Every well-played CW stun locks and kills every target with absolutely no threat of retaliation. In PvE, the damage is so high, this tactic is rarely seen. But there have been many, many times I have seen this happen, first-hand, in pvp. No class at all stands a chance when they can not move, heal, or retaliate in any way. There -needs- to be some sort of immunity timers added to these abilities, and I'm not talking about some pathetic 2 second immunity to each ability. Any stun-lock immunity from one ability has to be much longer than the use-and-duration of the other abilities. Otherwise, the cycle will just repeat anyway.
GWF should be the highest dps class in the game, but they are absolutely laughable. The only GWFs that has ever killed my Cleric in pvp are those which are many levels higher and much better equipped.
GF are right about where they "should" be- very hard to kill due to high defense and Hit Points, but not particularly effective (fast) at killing things. My cleric can usually best these guys because he has heals, but considering DC and GF have about the same dps rates, these fights take a long time.
With the exception of GWF, I have played all of the above scenarios myself too. I have been on the ***-handed-to-me and the ***-kicking side of all of the above situations, so I know what I'm talking about. (I am intentionally not listing ability names because I don't want to perpetuate these gross imbalances in the game.) I am playing a cleric outside of closed beta because my regular characters (and guild) are going to be introduced to the game through the Foundry quests I am going to be authoring, once the missing classes are added to the game.
I trust you play a TR then right? Unless you play a TR in level 60 PvP you're in no position to comment on the difficulty or the learning curve inherent to the class.
The same reason why a TR (supposedly a striker) is currently better choice to tank in bosses than a GF (let alone a GWF) at endgame currently........
We're talking about PvP here. Nobody cares whether someone is doing more DPS on scripted enemies. That's just silly.
People are whining about rogues because they're bad at their class and get killed by them in PvP. Rogues are a great class against bad players. Against a player who knows what he's doing however, rogues lose much of their efficacy.
We're talking about PvP here. Nobody cares whether someone is doing more DPS on scripted enemies. That's just silly.
People are whining about rogues because they're bad at their class and get killed by them in PvP.
Rogues are a great class against bad players. Against a player who knows what he's doing however, rogues lose much of their efficacy.
You spectacularly manage to miss the point.
TRs are broken in PvE to the extent that their combination of DPS and survivability makes them a better choice to tank bosses than the supposed tank and AOE DPS/tank classes. Funnily enough, the same combination of DPS and survivability makes TRs so popular in PvP.....
Also note that "against a player who knows what he's doing however, rogues lose much of their efficacy." is a hilariously weak argument since against any player that knows what they are doing, ANY class will much of their efficacy.....
TRs are broken in PvE to the extent that their combination of DPS and survivability makes them a better choice to tank bosses than the supposed tank and AOE DPS/tank classes. Funnily enough, the same combination of DPS and survivability makes TRs so popular in PvP.....
Also note that "against a player who knows what he's doing however, rogues lose much of their efficacy." is a hilariously weak argument since against any player that knows what they are doing, ANY class will much of their efficacy.....
I'm sorry but what "survivability" enables rogues to tank bosses? Please enlighten me.
I'm sorry but what "survivability" enables rogues to tank bosses? Please enlighten me.
Welcome to Neverwinter. You must be new here. TRs have ridiculously high dps. Add crit and life steal gear and they're immortal. Not to mention, pocket healers and/or DCs behind them.
I'm sorry but what "survivability" enables rogues to tank bosses? Please enlighten me.
As lordstormbow mentioned insanely high DPS = higher life-steal, , and high DEX and CHR means they get good AOE damage reduction and deflection/dodge chance.
The fact that many groups are now choosing TRs over GF for epic runs might give you an indication that the current class balance is a bit broken.......
krnefraiMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 18Arc User
edited May 2013
I have a CW, GF and TR...I like them all, and playing in PVP, I've killed many TR's with my GF...not sure why people are having such issues fighting them. I enjoy my TR in PVP as well, but it seems to me that a halfway decent CW can put the pain on a TR...going 1v1 against a CW, I usually get sucked into a vortex, or force-pushed far away, etc. Normally I use my team though...I stick by my tank or healer if I can. You shouldn't be doing 1v1 in a PVP match...you should be using teamwork, and I've never had issues with the other team's TRs as long as we worked together. Maybe the TR's I fought were just bad, but I had little issue fighting them with my GF. Learn to use that shield.
The only thing that makes me angry fighting a TR, is when they get the skill off that locks my ability to fight/block for awhile....lol.
I don't have a dog in this fight. I don't care whether TRs are overpowered or not. I am having much fun with my Cleric and my GF that I just started.
but I will say this...TRs WILL get nerfed, whether they deserve it or not. it's going to happen.
I just hope all you super-duper hardcore elite skill gamers that are playing TRs now and bashing anyone who happens to think TRs are over the top, I hope you guys stick with your TRs after the nerf and continue to show everyone how great and elite a player you are. Don't jump to the GWF(which will probably get a buff) after you are done ranting on the forums about people being casuals and needing to learn to play.
Pretty much this. The Stealth/Burst DPS class is always the first class to get nerfed in these games. And they are nerfed HARD. In recent memory, it was the very first class to be nerfed in SWTOR, and it only took them a week in Live to do it. Sad days those were... but never mind that.
I play a TR right now - lvl 18. I am enjoying it immensely. Of course, I pretty much only do PvE. In PvE they are really fun. I watched my brother play a GF, and it's just mind boggling how much harder it is to play that over the TR. The TR is beyond easy to play. I rarely use pots, my bro's GF can't get through a single fight with a pot (maybe it gets better when he lvls up some.)
I did one PvP match when I hit lvl 10. It was the first one I had done in this game, and it's the only one I have done since. I came out on top in about two different rankings. And I didn't even break a sweat. I died like 3 times and banked some 30-odd kills. Maybe the strength of the other classes break late. Maybe they didn't know what they were doing. But they couldn't have been any greener than I was, and I just mopped the floor with them without even trying.
TR will be nerfed soon enough. As long as they don't mess with its ability in PvE, I say do whatever needs to be done. Frankly though, I think all that needs to happen is the Fighter classes need to be loosened up a little. They're really herky-jerky.
Comments
msg too short and too short
Useless when Unstoppable is down? It's hardly EVER down in PvP. Flourish and Takedown offer even more CC when combined in conjunction with another GWF or a CW. Watch a GWF run in, drops Flourish followed by TD; I run in drop TD followed by Flourish. TR = Dead.
TR's build our Determination so fast. As soon as they come out of stealth, Unstoppable should be at half and should be popped. Drop your encounters and watch the Rogue run if he was lucky.
Rogues do so much damage, absolutely nothing stands in their way. Give them the pocket healer companion and life steal bonuses on top of their insane damage and they are absolutely immortal in PvE. In PvP, virtually every rogue can VERY, very quickly out-dps my cleric, and there's not enough healspam in the world to stop them. The score remains TR: win, DC: lose, every single time. It would be nice if there was even a snowball's chance in hell of killing a TR with a DC, but there isn't.
Every well-played CW stun locks and kills every target with absolutely no threat of retaliation. In PvE, the damage is so high, this tactic is rarely seen. But there have been many, many times I have seen this happen, first-hand, in pvp. No class at all stands a chance when they can not move, heal, or retaliate in any way. There -needs- to be some sort of immunity timers added to these abilities, and I'm not talking about some pathetic 2 second immunity to each ability. Any stun-lock immunity from one ability has to be much longer than the use-and-duration of the other abilities. Otherwise, the cycle will just repeat anyway.
GWF should be the highest dps class in the game, but they are absolutely laughable. The only GWFs that has ever killed my Cleric in pvp are those which are many levels higher and much better equipped.
GF are right about where they "should" be- very hard to kill due to high defense and Hit Points, but not particularly effective (fast) at killing things. My cleric can usually best these guys because he has heals, but considering DC and GF have about the same dps rates, these fights take a long time.
With the exception of GWF, I have played all of the above scenarios myself too. I have been on the ***-handed-to-me and the ***-kicking side of all of the above situations, so I know what I'm talking about. (I am intentionally not listing ability names because I don't want to perpetuate these gross imbalances in the game.) I am playing a cleric outside of closed beta because my regular characters (and guild) are going to be introduced to the game through the Foundry quests I am going to be authoring, once the missing classes are added to the game.
You're trolling right? Epic bait!
Explain to me why a tank/dps hybrid should do more damage than a pure dps class.
Well yeah, as I mentioned previously, that's our role.
u wot m8? Rogues are squishy as fuark. Only CWs are squishier.
I trust you play a TR then right? Unless you play a TR in level 60 PvP you're in no position to comment on the difficulty or the learning curve inherent to the class.
Oh so GWF are just rogues that aren't as squishy and can wear heavy armor. I get it now!
What the **** do we even need rogues for at all?
The same reason why a TR (supposedly a striker) is currently better choice to tank in bosses than a GF (let alone a GWF) at endgame currently........
We're talking about PvP here. Nobody cares whether someone is doing more DPS on scripted enemies. That's just silly.
People are whining about rogues because they're bad at their class and get killed by them in PvP. Rogues are a great class against bad players. Against a player who knows what he's doing however, rogues lose much of their efficacy.
You spectacularly manage to miss the point.
TRs are broken in PvE to the extent that their combination of DPS and survivability makes them a better choice to tank bosses than the supposed tank and AOE DPS/tank classes. Funnily enough, the same combination of DPS and survivability makes TRs so popular in PvP.....
Also note that "against a player who knows what he's doing however, rogues lose much of their efficacy." is a hilariously weak argument since against any player that knows what they are doing, ANY class will much of their efficacy.....
I'm sorry but what "survivability" enables rogues to tank bosses? Please enlighten me.
Welcome to Neverwinter. You must be new here. TRs have ridiculously high dps. Add crit and life steal gear and they're immortal. Not to mention, pocket healers and/or DCs behind them.
As lordstormbow mentioned insanely high DPS = higher life-steal, , and high DEX and CHR means they get good AOE damage reduction and deflection/dodge chance.
The fact that many groups are now choosing TRs over GF for epic runs might give you an indication that the current class balance is a bit broken.......
The only thing that makes me angry fighting a TR, is when they get the skill off that locks my ability to fight/block for awhile....lol.
Pretty much this. The Stealth/Burst DPS class is always the first class to get nerfed in these games. And they are nerfed HARD. In recent memory, it was the very first class to be nerfed in SWTOR, and it only took them a week in Live to do it. Sad days those were... but never mind that.
I play a TR right now - lvl 18. I am enjoying it immensely. Of course, I pretty much only do PvE. In PvE they are really fun. I watched my brother play a GF, and it's just mind boggling how much harder it is to play that over the TR. The TR is beyond easy to play. I rarely use pots, my bro's GF can't get through a single fight with a pot (maybe it gets better when he lvls up some.)
I did one PvP match when I hit lvl 10. It was the first one I had done in this game, and it's the only one I have done since. I came out on top in about two different rankings. And I didn't even break a sweat. I died like 3 times and banked some 30-odd kills. Maybe the strength of the other classes break late. Maybe they didn't know what they were doing. But they couldn't have been any greener than I was, and I just mopped the floor with them without even trying.
TR will be nerfed soon enough. As long as they don't mess with its ability in PvE, I say do whatever needs to be done. Frankly though, I think all that needs to happen is the Fighter classes need to be loosened up a little. They're really herky-jerky.