Seems like some amateur who have no idea about the concept of MICROtransaction is calling shots in there... And he is so excited about that little money he makes of it, that he is blind for what he would get if game would be enocuraging to keep playing and spending few bucks/euros here and there for something nice....
Better game = more players.
Cheaper prices = more payments
more players + more payments > less players + less, expensive payments.
Look at Dota and other games that are based on cosmetic only microtransactions - they have solid game, enjoyable by everyone which results in HUGE playerbases, and they are making tones of money. Much more than any amount of limited expensive half-disabled games PW will ever populate with enough players to get even close to competition who do things right.
You made the thread. there's nothin' else to discuss.
Since when it's 10$? It's 600ZEN, right? That's 6 bucks... Why are people saying 10 bucks? For the rest I agree with you, no one is forcing them to pay or play
For me it says 10 euros to get enough amount to respec. The lower option gives less than required to respec.
But its not about sum here. Its about principles. You dont say game is free, if its features are disabled for those who dont pay. I might pay 1euro for respec, but still producer would get -10 to respect every time i do that. However i would pay 5 once in a while to get something that boosts my character's awesomemness cosmetically, distinguish it from a grey mass of freeloaders. Cause then i know im not being scammed, and both parties are satisfied. And guess what? Thats actually a perfectly working microtransaction system in plenty of succesfull games like Dota2.
Well it's not free then is it? It's a monetization pit that you can potentially be spending a lot on. I'm pretty sure I've respecced more then 10 times on a character in WoW so that's $100. Then consider I'm switching specs constantly and since this game doesn't have dual specs that's also extra money.
At $15 a month that's $180 a year. I could easily be spending more then subscription with respecs.
So many fallacies where to begin:
1) If you respec your powers more than once in this game you're doing something fundamentally wrong.
2) You can respec feats with astral diamonds.
3) Stop comparing this game to wow.
4) Stop whining about paying money in a free to play game, developers need to eat as well.
On a side note, when people start running their own publishing company, they can dictate what should or should be done. Other than that they are arm chair entrepreneurs that know nothing about the industry and need a big dose of STFU.
Even if you find PW prices to be absurd (I know I do), there is nothing you can do about it and *****ing like a girl will only show that you're brat. Hell my 9 year old niece does not whine as much as some people.
This industry is not regulated and their is nothing illegal (or 'scammy') going on. Either you pay for the service or you don't. MMO's is part of the entertainment industry. Paying for things in the cash shop allow PW to pay cryptic, who then can pay their employees to produce a better game. It's not rocket science.
If you think you're paying too much, then don't pay ... simple economics.
Since when it's 10$? It's 600ZEN, right? That's 6 bucks... Why are people saying 10 bucks? For the rest I agree with you, no one is forcing them to pay or play
If they aren't playing then they lose a potential customer.
If you aren't paying then the fun factor for a lot of people is taken out which means potentially not playing. I don't want to have save every AD to keep up with respeccing. Certainly not possible if you want to avidly play both pvp and pve.
Then again suppose you can just level another character for a different build then it means they won't pay.
I just hate the fact that they would use respeccing as a massive money pit because that's like 90% of the enjoyment for me. I mean I'm not opposed to spending money considering I've played WoW since vanilla.
For me it says 10 euros to get enough amount to respec. The lower option gives less than required to respec.
That's the most annoying part. Respeccing should cost 500 zen at most. Funnily though, in DDO respec thingy also costs a bit more than the lowest amount of money you can spend.
I agree that respec should cost some money. However, I think that one should be able to do a non-zen respec once per week or so, maybe requiring only gold or AD. Even once a month would do.
0
mutharexMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I just hate the fact that they would use respeccing as a massive money pit because that's like 90% of the enjoyment for me. I mean I'm not opposed to spending money considering I've played WoW since vanilla.
They identified a group of free players who never spend a dime on F2P games but respec a lot and found a way to monetize this. Also, STO does the same (slightly cheaper) but allows respecs to be bought with 'merits' and gives free respecs every time they change sills enough to force one.
1) If you respec your powers more than once in this game you're doing something fundamentally wrong.
2) You can respec feats with astral diamonds.
3) Stop comparing this game to wow.
4) Stop whining about paying money in a free to play game, developers need to eat as well.
On a side note, when people start running their own publishing company, they can dictate what should or should be done. Other than that they are arm chair entrepreneurs that know nothing about the industry and need a big dose of STFU.
Even if you find PW prices to be absurd (I know I do), there is nothing you can do about it and *****ing like a girl will only show that you're brat. Hell my 9 year old niece that's whine as much as some people.
This industry is not regulated and their is nothing illegal (or 'scammy') going on. Either you pay for the service or you don't. MMO's is part of the entertainment industry. Paying for things in the cash shop allow PW to pay cryptic, who then can pay their employees to produce a better game. It's not rocket science.
If you think you're paying too much, then don't pay ... simple economics.
Providing feedback and review is something. As soon as one of those review sites realize the ludicrous cash shop and start writing about it then they might do something.
You ever hear the phrase "the pen is mightier then the sword?". It does accomplish something. I seriously don't understand why some of just bend over and take it. Good reason why you get these cheap f2p games with endless money pits because you are content with low grade stuff and even pay for it. The joke is on you.
1) If you respec your powers more than once in this game you're doing something fundamentally wrong.
2) You can respec feats with astral diamonds.
3) Stop comparing this game to wow.
4) Stop whining about paying money in a free to play game, developers need to eat as well.
On a side note, when people start running their own publishing company, they can dictate what should or should be done. Other than that they are arm chair entrepreneurs that know nothing about the industry and need a big dose of STFU.
Even if you find PW prices to be absurd (I know I do), there is nothing you can do about it and *****ing like a girl will only show that you're brat. Hell my 9 year old niece that's whine as much as some people.
This industry is not regulated and their is nothing illegal (or 'scammy') going on. Either you pay for the service or you don't. MMO's is part of the entertainment industry. Paying for things in the cash shop allow PW to pay cryptic, who then can pay their employees to produce a better game. It's not rocket science.
If you think you're paying too much, then don't pay ... simple economics.
Haha i love when someone says "simple economics" then call other debaters stupid children. You see, economy is not simple, it depends on huge amount of constantly changing factors. Yet it is simple math that more players and MICRO transactions grants more money than less players and expensive transactions.
You can call PW's money making system "MACROtransactions" but you would have to add "hidden", so it would be "Hidden Macrotransactions" (gaining a trust that game is free, make people invest their time and then using that against them) - and i call that scam.
How about just wait till the prices drop..which they will and they will start holding sales when they realize no one is dropping the cash. With the tooltips they provide...sure..I want to respec a few points..but I honestly don't think it's going to make or break your character by any means.
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orangerascalMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Haha i love when someone says "simple economics" then call other debaters stupid children. You see, economy is not simple, it depends on huge amount of constantly changing factors. Yet it is simple math that more players and MICRO transactions grants more money than less players and expensive transactions.
It's quite simple to me, PW have an infinite supply of the item they are selling and have priced it so that they can maximize their profits. They also have been in business far longer than the armchair economists that have been complaining on this forum. So I'm pretty sure they have a solid understanding of their clients. If the item is overpriced, then expect PW to lower it to maximize their profits.
It really is that simple. I'm sorry you don't understand it.
0
mutharexMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Providing feedback and review is something. As soon as one of those review sites realize the ludicrous cash shop and start writing about it then they might do something.
You ever hear the phrase "the pen is mightier then the sword?". It does accomplish something. I seriously don't understand why some of just bend over and take it. Good reason why you get these cheap f2p games with endless money pits because you are content with low grade stuff and even pay for it. The joke is on you.
No the joke is on you who are here crying over this "cheap f2p games with endless money pits because you are content with low grade stuff"
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kharnzorMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 20Arc User
edited May 2013
Complaining about paying to respec in a f2p game is pretty bad, even if they are a bit expensive.
0
mutharexMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
It's quite simple to me, PW have an infinite supply of the item they are selling and have priced it so that they can maximize their profits. They also have been in business far longer than the armchair economists that have been complaining on this forum. So I'm pretty sure they have a solid understanding of their clients. If the item is overpriced, then expect PW to lower it to maximize their profits.
It really is that simple. I'm sorry you don't understand it.
/thread
Or at least it would be in a normal community of adults.
You agree it's overpriced anyways so what's your problem? This doesn't make you sound cool or anything.
You know all the absurd amount of feedback in diablo has been implemented and they continue to add patches all for a single $60 purchase when in reality they don't even need to do anything because they already got the money. It's called integrity. This is just greed.
Complaining about paying to respec in a f2p game is pretty bad, even if they are a bit expensive.
Bad for who?
So define where does it start to be bad when you complain about paying for fundamental game's features for its genre when its called "free". When the end-game is paid? When you pay for the end-game dungeons, and realise that only after you spent so much filling up your bars to get there? When you pay for access to yoru character when it gets to level 60 after several months invested in it?
There is no relativity when it comes to morality. Something is moral or not. And no... business is not synonym of immorality. Its scam, not business.
You agree it's overpriced anyways so what's your problem? This doesn't make you sound cool or anything.
You know all the absurd amount of feedback in diablo has been implemented and they continue to add patches all for a single $60 purchase when in reality they don't even need to do anything because they already got the money. It's called integrity. This is just greed.
PWE is in the market to make money, not to provide a service to cheap people. They aren't forcing you to spend money, so what's the problem? My problem? I like the game and I like to help fund its development. Other people don't like to do so. Just go play something where you don't have to spend money. No one is forcing you to play this or play.
It's quite simple to me, PW have an infinite supply of the item they are selling and have priced it so that they can maximize their profits. They also have been in business far longer than the armchair economists that have been complaining on this forum. So I'm pretty sure they have a solid understanding of their clients. If the item is overpriced, then expect PW to lower it to maximize their profits.
It really is that simple. I'm sorry you don't understand it.
Out of curiosity, have they ever changed prices before?
Do they have an understanding of other clients though? There's a bunch of us that look down on f2p and don't even consider them because they are considered low grade. It might have worked for their limited audience who are willing to waste cash, but this game could potentially be pretty big. Just how big is the population in these f2p games? Is it even remotely close to 10 million or even a million players?
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kharnzorMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 20Arc User
So define where does it start to be bad when you complain about paying for fundamental game's features for its genre when its called "free". When the end-game is paid? When you pay for the end-game dungeons, and realise that only after you spent so much filling up your bars to get there? When you pay for access to yoru character when it gets to level 60 after several months invested in it?
There is no relativity when it comes to morality. Something is moral or not. And no... business is not synonym of immorality. Its scam, not business.
I should have said sad/crappy instead of bad.
You know what? if i dont like what they charge then i'll go elsewhere. pretty simple.
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mutharexMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I should have said sad/crappy instead of bad.
You know what? if i dont like what they charge then i'll go elsewhere. pretty simple.
Some people really dont praise their time or dignity. You are being scammed yet you defend the con-artist. Its like a Stockholm syndrome.
There is another die hard victim in this thread, that even insults people who simply are insulted by con-artist's scams and are voicing their disaproval. I believe its due to the fact that he already paid for some founder pack or something, and he do his best not to face the truth and feel bad. Its always like that... The more someone is cheated the harder it is for him to face it.
I woudlnt be here complaining if i would see "hidden macrotransactions to access all game's features" on the account creation page. Now i have wasted a lot of my time to get to the point where i notice its a scam.
PWE is in the market to make money, not to provide a service to cheap people. They aren't forcing you to spend money, so what's the problem? My problem? I like the game and I like to help fund its development. Other people don't like to do so. Just go play something where you don't have to spend money. No one is forcing you to play this or play.
You said you felt it was overpriced correct? So what are you trying to argue? I agree it's overpriced.
I've played WoW since vanilla. Bought every xpac at full price and at least a few years worth of subscription fees. I've also bought every xpac in Guildwars. I do spend money when I find it has a good value and of course I know companies need money. Everyone knows nothing is free, but I don't find it a good value with the respec system and I won't spend money out of spite.
Some people really dont praise their time or dignity. You are being scammed yet you defend the con-artist. Its like a Stockholm syndrome.
There is another die hard victim in this thread, that even insults people who simply are insulted by con-artist's scams and are voicing their disaproval.
I woudlnt be here complaining if i would see "hidden macrotransactions to access all game's features" on the account creation page. Now i have wasted a lot of my time to get to the point where i notice its a scam.
I just don't see it as a scam man. I honestly expected them to charge for respecs anyways. They are overpriced in areas that is for sure and like I said before I do think that players should get one free respec token for reasons I already mentioned.
On a side note, love how some feel the need to insult others simply for having a different point of view. Sure shows the type of person you are...just sayin'...
0
kharnzorMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 20Arc User
Some people really dont praise their time or dignity. You are being scammed yet you defend the con-artist. Its like a Stockholm syndrome.
There is another die hard victim in this thread, that even insults people who simply are insulted by con-artist's scams and are voicing their disaproval. I believe its due to the fact that he already paid for some founder pack or something, and he do his best not to face the truth and feel bad. Its always like that... The more someone is cheated the harder it is for him to face it.
I woudlnt be here complaining if i would see "hidden macrotransactions to access all game's features" on the account creation page. Now i have wasted a lot of my time to get to the point where i notice its a scam.
Seeing as how you quoted me i'm assuming your reply was directed at me. if so you are an idiot.
0
mutharexMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Some people really dont praise their time or dignity. You are being scammed yet you defend the con-artist. Its like a Stockholm syndrome.
There is another die hard victim in this thread, that even insults people who simply are insulted by con-artist's scams and are voicing their disaproval. I believe its due to the fact that he already paid for some founder pack or something, and he do his best not to face the truth and feel bad. Its always like that... The more someone is cheated the harder it is for him to face it.
I woudlnt be here complaining if i would see "hidden macrotransactions to access all game's features" on the account creation page. Now i have wasted a lot of my time to get to the point where i notice its a scam.
Now you are simply trolling
0
mutharexMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
You said you felt it was overpriced correct? So what are you trying to argue? I agree it's overpriced.
I've played WoW since vanilla. Bought every xpac at full price and at least a few years worth of subscription fees. I've also bought every xpac in Guildwars. I do spend money when I find it has a good value and of course I know companies need money. Everyone knows nothing is free, but I don't find it a good value with the respec system and I won't spend money out of spite.
Cool. So, vote with your wallet and don't pay a cent.Easy
0
kharnzorMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 20Arc User
Comments
You made the thread. there's nothin' else to discuss.
For me it says 10 euros to get enough amount to respec. The lower option gives less than required to respec.
But its not about sum here. Its about principles. You dont say game is free, if its features are disabled for those who dont pay. I might pay 1euro for respec, but still producer would get -10 to respect every time i do that. However i would pay 5 once in a while to get something that boosts my character's awesomemness cosmetically, distinguish it from a grey mass of freeloaders. Cause then i know im not being scammed, and both parties are satisfied. And guess what? Thats actually a perfectly working microtransaction system in plenty of succesfull games like Dota2.
So many fallacies where to begin:
1) If you respec your powers more than once in this game you're doing something fundamentally wrong.
2) You can respec feats with astral diamonds.
3) Stop comparing this game to wow.
4) Stop whining about paying money in a free to play game, developers need to eat as well.
On a side note, when people start running their own publishing company, they can dictate what should or should be done. Other than that they are arm chair entrepreneurs that know nothing about the industry and need a big dose of STFU.
Even if you find PW prices to be absurd (I know I do), there is nothing you can do about it and *****ing like a girl will only show that you're brat. Hell my 9 year old niece does not whine as much as some people.
This industry is not regulated and their is nothing illegal (or 'scammy') going on. Either you pay for the service or you don't. MMO's is part of the entertainment industry. Paying for things in the cash shop allow PW to pay cryptic, who then can pay their employees to produce a better game. It's not rocket science.
If you think you're paying too much, then don't pay ... simple economics.
If they aren't playing then they lose a potential customer.
If you aren't paying then the fun factor for a lot of people is taken out which means potentially not playing. I don't want to have save every AD to keep up with respeccing. Certainly not possible if you want to avidly play both pvp and pve.
Then again suppose you can just level another character for a different build then it means they won't pay.
I just hate the fact that they would use respeccing as a massive money pit because that's like 90% of the enjoyment for me. I mean I'm not opposed to spending money considering I've played WoW since vanilla.
That's the most annoying part. Respeccing should cost 500 zen at most. Funnily though, in DDO respec thingy also costs a bit more than the lowest amount of money you can spend.
I agree that respec should cost some money. However, I think that one should be able to do a non-zen respec once per week or so, maybe requiring only gold or AD. Even once a month would do.
They identified a group of free players who never spend a dime on F2P games but respec a lot and found a way to monetize this. Also, STO does the same (slightly cheaper) but allows respecs to be bought with 'merits' and gives free respecs every time they change sills enough to force one.
Providing feedback and review is something. As soon as one of those review sites realize the ludicrous cash shop and start writing about it then they might do something.
You ever hear the phrase "the pen is mightier then the sword?". It does accomplish something. I seriously don't understand why some of just bend over and take it. Good reason why you get these cheap f2p games with endless money pits because you are content with low grade stuff and even pay for it. The joke is on you.
Haha i love when someone says "simple economics" then call other debaters stupid children. You see, economy is not simple, it depends on huge amount of constantly changing factors. Yet it is simple math that more players and MICRO transactions grants more money than less players and expensive transactions.
You can call PW's money making system "MACROtransactions" but you would have to add "hidden", so it would be "Hidden Macrotransactions" (gaining a trust that game is free, make people invest their time and then using that against them) - and i call that scam.
Here is some reference for you:
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/scam
It's quite simple to me, PW have an infinite supply of the item they are selling and have priced it so that they can maximize their profits. They also have been in business far longer than the armchair economists that have been complaining on this forum. So I'm pretty sure they have a solid understanding of their clients. If the item is overpriced, then expect PW to lower it to maximize their profits.
It really is that simple. I'm sorry you don't understand it.
No the joke is on you who are here crying over this "cheap f2p games with endless money pits because you are content with low grade stuff"
/thread
Or at least it would be in a normal community of adults.
You agree it's overpriced anyways so what's your problem? This doesn't make you sound cool or anything.
You know all the absurd amount of feedback in diablo has been implemented and they continue to add patches all for a single $60 purchase when in reality they don't even need to do anything because they already got the money. It's called integrity. This is just greed.
Bad for who?
So define where does it start to be bad when you complain about paying for fundamental game's features for its genre when its called "free". When the end-game is paid? When you pay for the end-game dungeons, and realise that only after you spent so much filling up your bars to get there? When you pay for access to yoru character when it gets to level 60 after several months invested in it?
There is no relativity when it comes to morality. Something is moral or not. And no... business is not synonym of immorality. Its scam, not business.
PWE is in the market to make money, not to provide a service to cheap people. They aren't forcing you to spend money, so what's the problem? My problem? I like the game and I like to help fund its development. Other people don't like to do so. Just go play something where you don't have to spend money. No one is forcing you to play this or play.
Out of curiosity, have they ever changed prices before?
Do they have an understanding of other clients though? There's a bunch of us that look down on f2p and don't even consider them because they are considered low grade. It might have worked for their limited audience who are willing to waste cash, but this game could potentially be pretty big. Just how big is the population in these f2p games? Is it even remotely close to 10 million or even a million players?
You know what? if i dont like what they charge then i'll go elsewhere. pretty simple.
Exactly. I wish they force users age to show near their avatar, then I'd knew automatically who to ignore.
I think there is a lot of children in this forum. Or slightly <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> adults
Some people really dont praise their time or dignity. You are being scammed yet you defend the con-artist. Its like a Stockholm syndrome.
There is another die hard victim in this thread, that even insults people who simply are insulted by con-artist's scams and are voicing their disaproval. I believe its due to the fact that he already paid for some founder pack or something, and he do his best not to face the truth and feel bad. Its always like that... The more someone is cheated the harder it is for him to face it.
I woudlnt be here complaining if i would see "hidden macrotransactions to access all game's features" on the account creation page. Now i have wasted a lot of my time to get to the point where i notice its a scam.
You said you felt it was overpriced correct? So what are you trying to argue? I agree it's overpriced.
I've played WoW since vanilla. Bought every xpac at full price and at least a few years worth of subscription fees. I've also bought every xpac in Guildwars. I do spend money when I find it has a good value and of course I know companies need money. Everyone knows nothing is free, but I don't find it a good value with the respec system and I won't spend money out of spite.
I just don't see it as a scam man. I honestly expected them to charge for respecs anyways. They are overpriced in areas that is for sure and like I said before I do think that players should get one free respec token for reasons I already mentioned.
On a side note, love how some feel the need to insult others simply for having a different point of view. Sure shows the type of person you are...just sayin'...
Now you are simply trolling
Cool. So, vote with your wallet and don't pay a cent.Easy
But bad for them. You are the one saying companies need to make money right?
Do you even understand what you are saying?