negnarlodenMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
Well IMO GS wouldn't be a big issue if it did in fact show the score of your gear... so far i had a situation where i had an item 133/133 and exchanged it for 150/150, enchanted the same thing and my gs went 30 down... Besides some enchant don't count into GS -> like tanenbrous enchant, if you had all tanenbrous enchanted equip, even though you would do insane dps through it, it wouldn't count into your gs and possibly you wouldn't hit 9200... Moreover GS requires you to put on equip that you dont rly want to wear. I had to echange few of my crit/power items into items with power/deflection to be able to do castle never... sad but true
Yes. 3000 glory is nothing. You'll need about 1900K glory for the full set. If you win 50% of your games and play 50% of your games during the PvP event times, you'll need about 6-8 hours to get the full set. Like I said, stupidly easy.
IMO, it's dumb to require a player to do PvP content to get gear to PvE.
I'm not at end-game so I can't really comment on whether GS has a positive or negative impact BUT I can say that the way it is calculated and what gear is recommended (and makes the most impact GS-wsie) is pretty out of whack.
As a GF, personally I go for Def, Deflection, HP etc but I'm always getting recommended Power/Crit gear and stuff like that which I don't quite understand.
Theohelm, Guardian of the Dalelands.
0
egoboostedMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
i left WOW years ago when gs hit it. sadly i have to leave this game now. Was fun while it lasted, but ill go somewhere else and spend my money. wont support a game that has gs. last post also so gs fanboys don't waste your time responding, i wont read them
Bye....
Mediocre players always hate when there are ways to judge and/or prove it.
Those that are skilled don't have ANY issues with these kinds of measurements because a) they can easily attain it and b) it lets them know that x person has at least done y content before, so they know that staying out of VERY SIMPLE to avoid stuff is required.
As said before, this game is simple. One of the easiest of any MMO to date, honestly. This isn't a requirement of anything but time, which for EPIC dungeons you shouldn't be allowed to just jump in and provide a mediocre amount of help for a much bigger reward than you're entitled to.
0
forsakenlich1Banned Users, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
gs in this game is not like wow
it is an arbitrary number in wow and thats where the problem comes in - elitists looking for high GS
in this game it is just check that you can survive the dungeon. this is an action mmo and therefore a gearcheck is a must for certain dungeons. you simply will not survive it
a party under 8300 gs will not survive those dungeons. that is all
They would not have imposed the Gear Score if it was not needed. Gear Score tends to ensure that the character has the necessary stats needed in order to survive the dungeon or at least help and not be a liability to the party. People may argue that GS does not equate to skill, but then again, we can also argue that at level 60 that skill will only take a person as far as his gear can take him. Skills and stats work hand in hand and if one is missing, in my opinion that player will just fail.
Less under-prepared players entering these epic dungeons means less players complaining that a dungeon is too hard for them even at level 60.
0
samuraikingsMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
Gearscore is fine when done right, atm it doesn't seem that way though.
Some people are saying the GS is inflated falesy based off of certain feats/stats, and some say you have to grind for PvP gear to get over a threshold. You NEVER meld PvP and PvE together, this is a huge, terrible mistake. I would say the community is probably split into thirds. One likes mostly PvP, one for mostly PvE and one that likes them both. You don't **** over one group by forcing them to do content in one of the things they hate.
A loot treadmill however is great. We all saw what happened when GW2 hit endgame, we all loved the idea but then we realized there was no point to endgame. There was no reason to do dungeons past aesthetic purposes and there was no feeling of satisfaction. The gear you bought cheaply off the AH was essentially endgame gear, the ones you got from dungeons were mostly aesthetic.
I originally thought loot treadmills were simply a way to artificially inflate replay value of a game, but after playing GW2 I realized it actually gave purpose and satisfaction, not just an artificially extended playtime. You are perfectly right to hate the dungeons and GS atm, they are not balanced for progression very well. If they fix that and stop trying to meld PvP gear as a starter for the PvE content, then it will all be good. Getting rid of gearscore however is NOT a solution and will only make more people quit.
Foundry Name: "Wolframs Last Stand" (@Holythirst)
Foundry Map: Blacklake District
Type: Campaign, Story, Dungeon - 5 bosses, 1-2 players
Current State: Version 2.2 is up. Full release. Try it with code below.
Gearscore is fine when done right, atm it doesn't seem that way though.
Some people are saying the GS is inflated falesy based off of certain feats/stats, and some say you have to grind for PvP gear to get over a threshold. You NEVER meld PvP and PvE together, this is a huge, terrible mistake. I would say the community is probably split into thirds. One likes mostly PvP, one for mostly PvE and one that likes them both. You don't **** over one group by forcing them to do content in one of the things they hate.
A loot treadmill however is great. We all saw what happened when GW2 hit endgame, we all loved the idea but then we realized there was no point to endgame. There was no reason to do dungeons past aesthetic purposes and there was no feeling of satisfaction. The gear you bought cheaply off the AH was essentially endgame gear, the ones you got from dungeons were mostly aesthetic.
I originally thought loot treadmills were simply a way to artificially inflate replay value of a game, but after playing GW2 I realized it actually gave purpose and satisfaction, not just an artificially extended playtime. You are perfectly right to hate the dungeons and GS atm, they are not balanced for progression very well. If they fix that and stop trying to meld PvP gear as a starter for the PvE content, then it will all be good. Getting rid of gearscore however is NOT a solution and will only make more people quit.
It's always nice when the experts come out to play.
So in your professional opinion why is it that you don't combine the different facets of the game?
You don't have to PvP to get gear. You just can. So again....how is this bad? There's really no reason to split the gear into different categories, having PvE gear usable in PvP and vice versa really just helps everyone.
As long as there have been MMOs, players have looked for ways to measure success and evaluate players for grouping purposes. It will happen no matter what. If there wasn't GS, there would be something else. Players who are serious and who want to blow thru content look to group with likeminded players. That's the way it goes.
It is a GOOD THING for the GS to be built in to the game so that players don't have to come up with some other nebulous and far less objective/fair way to evaluate each other. Would you rather that it was left up to the judgement of elitists to determine whether you qualify to be carried, or rather have it be an in-game measurement that's equally fair for everybody?
FYI, you're making assumptions and judgements as to why people use GS, and you can't really speak for everyone, can you?
Would you rather get into a group then get kicked out for sucking? Isn't it better for the screening to occur before time is wasted for everyone?
...and there's no way to measure skill. If people said "looking for skilled players" in chat any clown could claim to be skilled and by totally clueless - there's no way to verify it.
Gear Score at least gives a hint of potential (had to get the gear somehow, might actually have a clue to have got it) and at least shows that a person has put the time/effort/cash/whatever in to get the gear.
This post had some great things going for it...and a BUNCH of antagonistic and often contradictory statements. I edited it to my taste.
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acidicpure1Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
It is not really a problem with the gearscore; Just the way it is implemented into this game. They did it all wrong - You can actually get a higher gearscore from Tier 1 or PvP stuff than you can Tier 2 stuff which is really bad. It would have been much better if they just put a visible item level (Cause honestly half the time when looking at AH i'm not sure what is suppose to be tier 2 and what is not due to the badly done stats) and actually balanced the gear for the effort required to get it rather than just adding up stats and getting it all wrong.
I think getting the gear score and whether the party you have can actually complete the content are two different things. It should be looked into.
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ashergreyMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
I Agree with Jdnyc, But I don't see any other solution. Removing Gs would just make them limit on attack/def/crit values. Its sad, but elitists will do anything to win.
0
samuraikingsMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
It's always nice when the experts come out to play.
So in your professional opinion why is it that you don't combine the different facets of the game?
You don't have to PvP to get gear. You just can. So again....how is this bad? There's really no reason to split the gear into different categories, having PvE gear usable in PvP and vice versa really just helps everyone.
But...guess I'm no professional, like you.
Cut the passive aggressive bull****. It only makes you look like an ***-hole.
At no point did I state or insinuate I was an expert, nor did I say anything beyond my opinion. Thanks for adding absolutely nothing to the conversation instead of discussing opinions like everyone else, though.
Foundry Name: "Wolframs Last Stand" (@Holythirst)
Foundry Map: Blacklake District
Type: Campaign, Story, Dungeon - 5 bosses, 1-2 players
Current State: Version 2.2 is up. Full release. Try it with code below.
it's this way so you'll buy gear to meet the minimum requirement by purchasing and selling zen
Have you seen what the minimum costs on the AH? Around 3k-10k max will get you 2-3 blue/purples that you can run cloak tower epic. The rest of gear score is/can be done by doing dungeons. The ONLY thing that is a roadblock is the blue ward for enchants. That bothers quite a bit, but that's not contingent on gear score. That's more of a min max thing. You can hit 9200 without a purple enchant.
0
tenderheartownsuMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 3Arc User
edited July 2013
Maybe I don't see the fuss. It's probably because I play the game with the intent on playing whatever is going to give me the most bang for my buck. When Dungeon Delves is on, I run Dungeons, when Professions is on, I quest, when PvP is on, I do PvP, Same with Skirmishes and Foundries, and now Gauntlgrym.
But when I hit 60, I already had pvp gear, but i hadn't upgraded my others, due to my enchantments i didn't want to lose. I was able to go ahead and buy gear from the auction house at a fairly low cost. And my gear score shot to 9000. Im continuously improving my gearscore, by doing dungeons and stuff. I can't do all of the dungeons because people will get to the first boss, and then quit the dungeon, leaving everyone else for dead.
I like the Gearscore being there, because its one thing to die a bunch because people keep quitting, but its another thing to die, because Johnny "Just Hit 60!" is there, and can't do anything because he dies at the first tough trash mob in the dungeon. I think making sure people have enough stats is a good thing. It won't determine skill at all, and it doesn't mean that people won't quit or die a bunch. But then again. You don't have to worry about these things if you play with a guild.
I don't think you are forced to do PvP. But most people enjoy the game, and can do fairly well. And its even better if you play pvp along the way, when leveling up. It makes pvp @ 60 so much easier playing through the ranks and levels at different pvp ranges.
I dunno if I helped this thread, but I think the community needs to change, and not be loot *****s, in order for people to actually finish dungeon content.
gear score is aggravating because its not equal, so if you pick a slightly off cookie cutter build, your score can be lower as your alternate stat is worth less per point. Its an idiotic system. If you want to go to epic content, the best way to raise your score is to waste thousands of AD worth of enchantments in utility slots (no one of these is worth a rat dropping for making you a better built character in PVE) and to invest heavily in extra hit points (they raise your score by more than important stats). Then with your rapid movement and high health, even if you have only 100 dps, you have the score to go inside!
Why do you force a Gear Score requirement for Epic Dungeons? Gear Score doesn't = Skill. It's so hard to find groups because you don't have a high gear score. People assume if you have high Gear Score that means you're really good at the game. What a shame.
Ive heard this argument many times, but think about this, how can you create a system to determine a players skill level. You really cant make a good ssystem to determine player skill level, but what you can do is look at some ones stats to determine their potential. Dont get me wrong skill is important, but it doesnt matter how good you are if youre limited by your stats. While i dnt think gs is the best option, it is the only real option you have to see if a person is ready for x content. You cant make a static score that says you are this good at the game, all you can do is see the person has experience and gear that gives them a statistical potential.
If anyone can create a system that measures player skill in a fair and exact manner i would like to see it, untill then the only thing i know about u is the potential you have with your current gear. Also even if you could show me how good you are, that doesnt matter if you are in bad gear and are ljmited to x posible damage, or x possible survivability. If you cant meet the the needed damage or survive long enough because you are limited by gear.
You have to look at both sides of this issue as there both important, and currently the only thing you can easily tell about some one u dnt know is their gear score.
Paul 60 guardian fighter on mindflayer.
Rising Star, fun friendly, community focused guild on mindflayer. We strive to help each other and enjoy the game together. Talk to me for info, or feel free to check and join our community at risingstarneverwinter.enjin.com
Comments
IMO, it's dumb to require a player to do PvP content to get gear to PvE.
As a GF, personally I go for Def, Deflection, HP etc but I'm always getting recommended Power/Crit gear and stuff like that which I don't quite understand.
Bye....
Mediocre players always hate when there are ways to judge and/or prove it.
Those that are skilled don't have ANY issues with these kinds of measurements because a) they can easily attain it and b) it lets them know that x person has at least done y content before, so they know that staying out of VERY SIMPLE to avoid stuff is required.
As said before, this game is simple. One of the easiest of any MMO to date, honestly. This isn't a requirement of anything but time, which for EPIC dungeons you shouldn't be allowed to just jump in and provide a mediocre amount of help for a much bigger reward than you're entitled to.
it is an arbitrary number in wow and thats where the problem comes in - elitists looking for high GS
in this game it is just check that you can survive the dungeon. this is an action mmo and therefore a gearcheck is a must for certain dungeons. you simply will not survive it
a party under 8300 gs will not survive those dungeons. that is all
Less under-prepared players entering these epic dungeons means less players complaining that a dungeon is too hard for them even at level 60.
Some people are saying the GS is inflated falesy based off of certain feats/stats, and some say you have to grind for PvP gear to get over a threshold. You NEVER meld PvP and PvE together, this is a huge, terrible mistake. I would say the community is probably split into thirds. One likes mostly PvP, one for mostly PvE and one that likes them both. You don't **** over one group by forcing them to do content in one of the things they hate.
A loot treadmill however is great. We all saw what happened when GW2 hit endgame, we all loved the idea but then we realized there was no point to endgame. There was no reason to do dungeons past aesthetic purposes and there was no feeling of satisfaction. The gear you bought cheaply off the AH was essentially endgame gear, the ones you got from dungeons were mostly aesthetic.
I originally thought loot treadmills were simply a way to artificially inflate replay value of a game, but after playing GW2 I realized it actually gave purpose and satisfaction, not just an artificially extended playtime. You are perfectly right to hate the dungeons and GS atm, they are not balanced for progression very well. If they fix that and stop trying to meld PvP gear as a starter for the PvE content, then it will all be good. Getting rid of gearscore however is NOT a solution and will only make more people quit.
Foundry Map: Blacklake District
Type: Campaign, Story, Dungeon - 5 bosses, 1-2 players
Current State: Version 2.2 is up. Full release. Try it with code below.
Short Code: NW-DU2BES2WA
Gear score?
It's not even gear score. Increasing your stats from buffs/feats increases your "gear score".
It's always nice when the experts come out to play.
So in your professional opinion why is it that you don't combine the different facets of the game?
You don't have to PvP to get gear. You just can. So again....how is this bad? There's really no reason to split the gear into different categories, having PvE gear usable in PvP and vice versa really just helps everyone.
But...guess I'm no professional, like you.
This post had some great things going for it...and a BUNCH of antagonistic and often contradictory statements. I edited it to my taste.
Cut the passive aggressive bull****. It only makes you look like an ***-hole.
At no point did I state or insinuate I was an expert, nor did I say anything beyond my opinion. Thanks for adding absolutely nothing to the conversation instead of discussing opinions like everyone else, though.
Foundry Map: Blacklake District
Type: Campaign, Story, Dungeon - 5 bosses, 1-2 players
Current State: Version 2.2 is up. Full release. Try it with code below.
Short Code: NW-DU2BES2WA
Have you seen what the minimum costs on the AH? Around 3k-10k max will get you 2-3 blue/purples that you can run cloak tower epic. The rest of gear score is/can be done by doing dungeons. The ONLY thing that is a roadblock is the blue ward for enchants. That bothers quite a bit, but that's not contingent on gear score. That's more of a min max thing. You can hit 9200 without a purple enchant.
But when I hit 60, I already had pvp gear, but i hadn't upgraded my others, due to my enchantments i didn't want to lose. I was able to go ahead and buy gear from the auction house at a fairly low cost. And my gear score shot to 9000. Im continuously improving my gearscore, by doing dungeons and stuff. I can't do all of the dungeons because people will get to the first boss, and then quit the dungeon, leaving everyone else for dead.
I like the Gearscore being there, because its one thing to die a bunch because people keep quitting, but its another thing to die, because Johnny "Just Hit 60!" is there, and can't do anything because he dies at the first tough trash mob in the dungeon. I think making sure people have enough stats is a good thing. It won't determine skill at all, and it doesn't mean that people won't quit or die a bunch. But then again. You don't have to worry about these things if you play with a guild.
I don't think you are forced to do PvP. But most people enjoy the game, and can do fairly well. And its even better if you play pvp along the way, when leveling up. It makes pvp @ 60 so much easier playing through the ranks and levels at different pvp ranges.
I dunno if I helped this thread, but I think the community needs to change, and not be loot *****s, in order for people to actually finish dungeon content.
I re-specced from a renegade build to a thaum build for my CW and my gear score dropped by 320+ even though I was using exactly the same gear.
Normally I wouldn't care, but it's annoying in this game because you see people in zone chat making groups and looking for a minimum gear score.
Even the recommended items is pretty bad to be honest.
/chuckle. Got to love the English language.
Its supposed to be a guideline to what is expected for you to have to have a do anything in it. Not a exactly a strict requirement.
Ive heard this argument many times, but think about this, how can you create a system to determine a players skill level. You really cant make a good ssystem to determine player skill level, but what you can do is look at some ones stats to determine their potential. Dont get me wrong skill is important, but it doesnt matter how good you are if youre limited by your stats. While i dnt think gs is the best option, it is the only real option you have to see if a person is ready for x content. You cant make a static score that says you are this good at the game, all you can do is see the person has experience and gear that gives them a statistical potential.
If anyone can create a system that measures player skill in a fair and exact manner i would like to see it, untill then the only thing i know about u is the potential you have with your current gear. Also even if you could show me how good you are, that doesnt matter if you are in bad gear and are ljmited to x posible damage, or x possible survivability. If you cant meet the the needed damage or survive long enough because you are limited by gear.
You have to look at both sides of this issue as there both important, and currently the only thing you can easily tell about some one u dnt know is their gear score.
Rising Star, fun friendly, community focused guild on mindflayer. We strive to help each other and enjoy the game together. Talk to me for info, or feel free to check and join our community at risingstarneverwinter.enjin.com
I don't think this is a problem, I was able to get 9500 GS with like <90k AD.